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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 20, 2023 11:20:29 GMT
Sounds like a no win situation for Starmer after Ms Abbots comments. Reinstate her and there’ll comments from some saying he’s only done it because she’s black. or Get rid and there’ll be comments from others saying he’s only done it because she’s black. Definite need for a compromise I’d suggest. I think most people know she's a thicko who's made a living out of using the race card. I'm not so sure many people will complain. Starmer could just bring in another black person who's more capable, but I'm not a fan of recruiting people based on their ethnicity alone. Best person for the job, whatever the colour. Thousands of voters in Hackney would disagree. If she runs as an Independent Socialist she'll walk it as will Corbyn in Islington. Starmer's shitting himself.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 20, 2023 11:21:35 GMT
An educated black woman who has campaigned tirelessly for her constituents over many years clearly brings out the hostility for some folks. I really don't get it. Have a guess...it's usually the usual suspects on here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 11:21:54 GMT
How do you know she is thick? Do you know her? All racists are thick. OK, what has she said/done to make you reach that conclusion? Seriously, I wasn't aware of her racism.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 11:30:54 GMT
OK, what has she said/done to make you reach that conclusion? Seriously, I wasn't aware of her racism. "West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children." - Not all of them would and plenty of white English mothers would as well. "White people love playing 'divide and rule" . - I'm white and I don't, she's black and she does. In a message on Twitter, Abbott wrote: “Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?” - Trying to cause division and calling other blacks liars for not agreeing with her.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 11:42:20 GMT
OK, what has she said/done to make you reach that conclusion? Seriously, I wasn't aware of her racism. "West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children." - Not all of them would and plenty of white English mothers would as well. "White people love playing 'divide and rule" . - I'm white and I don't, she's black and she does. In a message on Twitter, Abbott wrote: “Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?” - Trying to cause division and calling other blacks liars for not agreeing with her. OK, if she's racist why don't the Labour Party expel her? I know she's had the whip removed but Kier Starmer would certainly be quick to act if she was guilty of racism. I dont think you're making a credible argument.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 11:46:45 GMT
"West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children." - Not all of them would and plenty of white English mothers would as well. "White people love playing 'divide and rule" . - I'm white and I don't, she's black and she does. In a message on Twitter, Abbott wrote: “Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?” - Trying to cause division and calling other blacks liars for not agreeing with her. OK, if she's racist why don't the Labour Party expel her? I know she's had the whip removed but Kier Starmer would certainly be quick to act if she was guilty of racism. I dont think you're making a credible argument. Because the Labour Party don't want to lose a certain type of vote and obviously only white people can be racist.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 11:52:57 GMT
OK, if she's racist why don't the Labour Party expel her? I know she's had the whip removed but Kier Starmer would certainly be quick to act if she was guilty of racism. I dont think you're making a credible argument. Because the Labour Party don't want to lose a certain type of vote and obviously only white people can be racist. OK....
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 11:56:04 GMT
OK, if she's racist why don't the Labour Party expel her? I know she's had the whip removed but Kier Starmer would certainly be quick to act if she was guilty of racism. I dont think you're making a credible argument. Because the Labour Party don't want to lose a certain type of vote and obviously only white people can be racist. As an Irish man I wasn't that offended by her comments. I could understand what she was trying to say but it didn't come out correctly. I don't believe the prejudice we receive is comparable to that of black people in modern day Britain. Maybe in the 80s, before I was born, but not today in my opinion.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 12:06:25 GMT
Because the Labour Party don't want to lose a certain type of vote and obviously only white people can be racist. As an Irish man I wasn't that offended by her comments. I could understand what she was trying to say but it didn't come out correctly. I don't believe the prejudice we receive is comparable to that of black people in modern day Britain. Maybe in the 80s, before I was born, but not today in my opinion. We either call racism out everywhere or not at all. Or do you think different rules should apply to whites and none whites when it comes to racist comments?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 12:11:30 GMT
As an Irish man I wasn't that offended by her comments. I could understand what she was trying to say but it didn't come out correctly. I don't believe the prejudice we receive is comparable to that of black people in modern day Britain. Maybe in the 80s, before I was born, but not today in my opinion. We either call racism out everywhere or not at all. Or do you think different rules should apply to whites and none whites when it comes to racist comments? Just what is it that Diane Abbott has done/said that offends you so deeply? Serious question.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 12:19:54 GMT
We either call racism out everywhere or not at all. Or do you think different rules should apply to whites and none whites when it comes to racist comments? Just what is it that Diane Abbott has done/said that offends you so deeply? Serious question. Nothing at all, I just like consistency to be applied when it comes to racism. If she was white and saying the same things she'd be hung drawn and quartered by the media.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 12:25:38 GMT
Just what is it that Diane Abbott has done/said that offends you so deeply? Serious question. Nothing at all, I just like consistency to be applied when it comes to racism. If she was white and saying the same things she'd be hung drawn and quartered by the media. But, forgive me Aureliuspotter, I think that Diane Abbott has already been hung, drawn and quartered by the UK's gutter press. Or do you not agree with that? Again, a serious question.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 12:29:21 GMT
As an Irish man I wasn't that offended by her comments. I could understand what she was trying to say but it didn't come out correctly. I don't believe the prejudice we receive is comparable to that of black people in modern day Britain. Maybe in the 80s, before I was born, but not today in my opinion. We either call racism out everywhere or not at all. Or do you think different rules should apply to whites and none whites when it comes to racist comments? I most certainly don't think different rules should apply, this is why I've said in my opening sentence "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else". I believe the way Jess Phillips has been treated for alleged racism is completely different from that of Diane Abbott. Why do you think, that I think different rules should apply to whites and non whites for racist comments? Surely those advocating for her to be removed from the party and not others who have made racist comments are the ones wanting people to be treated differently for racist comments based on their race?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 12:31:40 GMT
"You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist."
15 November 1985 Socialist Action, page 5
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 12:37:03 GMT
We either call racism out everywhere or not at all. Or do you think different rules should apply to whites and none whites when it comes to racist comments? I most certainly don't think different rules should apply, this is why I've said in my opening sentence "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else". I believe the way Jess Phillips has been treated for alleged racism is completely different from that of Diane Abbott. Why do you think, that I think different rules should apply to whites and non whites for racist comments? Surely those advocating for her to be removed from the party and not others who have made racist comments are the ones wanting people to be treated differently for racist comments based on their race? From what I've seen and from how many others see it those on the left usually do think that minorities should be treated with more leniency, hence why many on the right get their backs up over it. No one likes double standards. It just came across like you were excluding Abbott, which is fine if you'd also excuse whites who are guilty of the same.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 13:00:45 GMT
I most certainly don't think different rules should apply, this is why I've said in my opening sentence "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else". I believe the way Jess Phillips has been treated for alleged racism is completely different from that of Diane Abbott. Why do you think, that I think different rules should apply to whites and non whites for racist comments? Surely those advocating for her to be removed from the party and not others who have made racist comments are the ones wanting people to be treated differently for racist comments based on their race? From what I've seen and from how many others see it those on the left usually do think that minorities should be treated with more leniency, hence why many on the right get their backs up over it. No one likes double standards. It just came across like you were excluding Abbott, which is fine if you'd also excuse whites who are guilty of the same. I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Diane isn't the only Labour MP to be accused of racism over the last 6 months, but the way she's been treated is different from the others. I can understand that those who don't follow politics in such depth may not be aware of the other instances and thus don't realise the difference in treatment, this is why I am pointing it out. Do you think Diane Abbott should continue to be treated differently from other Labour members accused of racism? Or do you also think that different rules shouldn't apply? Personally I don't really believe in or agree with the racist label being thrown around the way it is as it usually results in any decent discussion disintegrating and the conversation transforming into something you'd see in a playground with slurs being thrown back and forth. I think everyone is entitled to a view or an opinion and they should be given the opportunity to explain and elaborate on it as often a misunderstanding can cause for people to throw these labels out. I've been called an "Irish c*nt" many times and I just take it as a joke and a laugh. Whereas if someone is called a black or a paki c*nt then it is deemed racist. And of course in both scenarios some people do intend it to be prejeduce and racist. But I also think alot of times it's just the spur of the moment like tall cunt, speccy cunt, ugly cunt, skinny cunt. Someone maybe in the heat of the moment looking for the first descriptive word for someone followed by c*nt. Of course not a nice thing to say, but doesn't always have the racist undertones which some make out either. I think with Diane that she has been the target of alot of attacks and abuse on social media for a long time and she's an easy target. I think her comments were poorly worded and could be interpreted as racist, but I don't think they were intended to come out that way. And while I can't speak for travellers or jewish people, I do agree that the prejudice received by black people is much worse than that received by irish people. At least in my experience living in England. Sometimes I think there can be a bit of faux outrage when it comes to Diane too due to people disliking her as an individual. I don't think she's being treated differently by Labour or Starmer due to her skin colour though - not at all. I think she's being treated differently due to her more socialist further left believes than Kier Starmer and she's just one of many more "further left" members of the labour party to be pushed out and purged under him. And as someone further left in the party, I find that disappointing because it feels like Labour are treating the left of the party much different from the right, and thus I have little confidence in them at the moment.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 13:51:04 GMT
From what I've seen and from how many others see it those on the left usually do think that minorities should be treated with more leniency, hence why many on the right get their backs up over it. No one likes double standards. It just came across like you were excluding Abbott, which is fine if you'd also excuse whites who are guilty of the same. I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Diane isn't the only Labour MP to be accused of racism over the last 6 months, but the way she's been treated is different from the others. I can understand that those who don't follow politics in such depth may not be aware of the other instances and thus don't realise the difference in treatment, this is why I am pointing it out. Do you think Diane Abbott should continue to be treated differently from other Labour members accused of racism? Or do you also think that different rules shouldn't apply? Personally I don't really believe in or agree with the racist label being thrown around the way it is as it usually results in any decent discussion disintegrating and the conversation transforming into something you'd see in a playground with slurs being thrown back and forth. I think everyone is entitled to a view or an opinion and they should be given the opportunity to explain and elaborate on it as often a misunderstanding can cause for people to throw these labels out. I've been called an "Irish c*nt" many times and I just take it as a joke and a laugh. Whereas if someone is called a black or a paki c*nt then it is deemed racist. And of course in both scenarios some people do intend it to be prejeduce and racist. But I also think alot of times it's just the spur of the moment like tall cunt, speccy cunt, ugly cunt, skinny cunt. Someone maybe in the heat of the moment looking for the first descriptive word for someone followed by c*nt. Of course not a nice thing to say, but doesn't always have the racist undertones which some make out either. I think with Diane that she has been the target of alot of attacks and abuse on social media for a long time and she's an easy target. I think her comments were poorly worded and could be interpreted as racist, but I don't think they were intended to come out that way. And while I can't speak for travellers or jewish people, I do agree that the prejudice received by black people is much worse than that received by irish people. At least in my experience living in England. Sometimes I think there can be a bit of faux outrage when it comes to Diane too due to people disliking her as an individual. I don't think she's being treated differently by Labour or Starmer due to her skin colour though - not at all. I think she's being treated differently due to her more socialist further left believes than Kier Starmer and she's just one of many more "further left" members of the labour party to be pushed out and purged under him. And as someone further left in the party, I find that disappointing because it feels like Labour are treating the left of the party much different from the right, and thus I have little confidence in them at the moment. In my view, the outcome of a situation should be influenced by whether the person involved made an isolated angry comment or if they have a pattern of making racist statements. It is important to distinguish between these two scenarios because they are clearly different in nature. For years, the left has been consistently accusing individuals on the right of being racist , even in cases where this is unfounded. The term has been so frequently and liberally used that it has lost much of its significance. Recently, there has been a shift in attitudes when it comes to acknowledging racism from the left, leading to a more lenient response and the making of excuses. I believe in consistency , where everybody is subject to the same set of rules and standards.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2023 14:00:14 GMT
From what I've seen and from how many others see it those on the left usually do think that minorities should be treated with more leniency, hence why many on the right get their backs up over it. No one likes double standards. It just came across like you were excluding Abbott, which is fine if you'd also excuse whites who are guilty of the same. I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Diane isn't the only Labour MP to be accused of racism over the last 6 months, but the way she's been treated is different from the others. I can understand that those who don't follow politics in such depth may not be aware of the other instances and thus don't realise the difference in treatment, this is why I am pointing it out. Do you think Diane Abbott should continue to be treated differently from other Labour members accused of racism? Or do you also think that different rules shouldn't apply? Personally I don't really believe in or agree with the racist label being thrown around the way it is as it usually results in any decent discussion disintegrating and the conversation transforming into something you'd see in a playground with slurs being thrown back and forth. I think everyone is entitled to a view or an opinion and they should be given the opportunity to explain and elaborate on it as often a misunderstanding can cause for people to throw these labels out. I've been called an "Irish c*nt" many times and I just take it as a joke and a laugh. Whereas if someone is called a black or a paki c*nt then it is deemed racist. And of course in both scenarios some people do intend it to be prejeduce and racist. But I also think alot of times it's just the spur of the moment like tall cunt, speccy cunt, ugly cunt, skinny cunt. Someone maybe in the heat of the moment looking for the first descriptive word for someone followed by c*nt. Of course not a nice thing to say, but doesn't always have the racist undertones which some make out either. I think with Diane that she has been the target of alot of attacks and abuse on social media for a long time and she's an easy target. I think her comments were poorly worded and could be interpreted as racist, but I don't think they were intended to come out that way. And while I can't speak for travellers or jewish people, I do agree that the prejudice received by black people is much worse than that received by irish people. At least in my experience living in England. Sometimes I think there can be a bit of faux outrage when it comes to Diane too due to people disliking her as an individual. I don't think she's being treated differently by Labour or Starmer due to her skin colour though - not at all. I think she's being treated differently due to her more socialist further left believes than Kier Starmer and she's just one of many more "further left" members of the labour party to be pushed out and purged under him. And as someone further left in the party, I find that disappointing because it feels like Labour are treating the left of the party much different from the right, and thus I have little confidence in them at the moment. There is definitely a pattern emerging of white racists getting their retaliation in first and accusing non-white people of being racist at every opportunity - Sadiq Khan is another recent example. You are right - it's easy to take something out of context or something clumsily worded and shout racist. That isn't to say non-white people cant be racist - that's clearly nonsense. As is labelling everyone on the right racist and everyone on the left non-racist - that's bollocks as well. In terms of Labour purging the left its history repeating itself and to be fair the left have done the same when they have held the reins as well. The problem is no one party can embrace the full range of views out there and that is true of both left and right. I think there is a need for a proper left wing party and one that represents the socially conservative right wing working class vote - neither Labour nor the Tories really represent either of these groups. It's first past the post and the two party state this supports that needs addressing - the current system just effectively disenfranchises millions of people of every political outlook outside the those temporarily in charge of the two "main" parties. The political debates and their conclusion should be happening in Parliament - not in the corridors of Tory and Labour headquarters.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 14:24:00 GMT
I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Diane isn't the only Labour MP to be accused of racism over the last 6 months, but the way she's been treated is different from the others. I can understand that those who don't follow politics in such depth may not be aware of the other instances and thus don't realise the difference in treatment, this is why I am pointing it out. Do you think Diane Abbott should continue to be treated differently from other Labour members accused of racism? Or do you also think that different rules shouldn't apply? Personally I don't really believe in or agree with the racist label being thrown around the way it is as it usually results in any decent discussion disintegrating and the conversation transforming into something you'd see in a playground with slurs being thrown back and forth. I think everyone is entitled to a view or an opinion and they should be given the opportunity to explain and elaborate on it as often a misunderstanding can cause for people to throw these labels out. I've been called an "Irish c*nt" many times and I just take it as a joke and a laugh. Whereas if someone is called a black or a paki c*nt then it is deemed racist. And of course in both scenarios some people do intend it to be prejeduce and racist. But I also think alot of times it's just the spur of the moment like tall cunt, speccy cunt, ugly cunt, skinny cunt. Someone maybe in the heat of the moment looking for the first descriptive word for someone followed by c*nt. Of course not a nice thing to say, but doesn't always have the racist undertones which some make out either. I think with Diane that she has been the target of alot of attacks and abuse on social media for a long time and she's an easy target. I think her comments were poorly worded and could be interpreted as racist, but I don't think they were intended to come out that way. And while I can't speak for travellers or jewish people, I do agree that the prejudice received by black people is much worse than that received by irish people. At least in my experience living in England. Sometimes I think there can be a bit of faux outrage when it comes to Diane too due to people disliking her as an individual. I don't think she's being treated differently by Labour or Starmer due to her skin colour though - not at all. I think she's being treated differently due to her more socialist further left believes than Kier Starmer and she's just one of many more "further left" members of the labour party to be pushed out and purged under him. And as someone further left in the party, I find that disappointing because it feels like Labour are treating the left of the party much different from the right, and thus I have little confidence in them at the moment. In my view, the outcome of a situation should be influenced by whether the person involved made an isolated angry comment or if they have a pattern of making racist statements. It is important to distinguish between these two scenarios because they are clearly different in nature. For years, the left has been consistently accusing individuals on the right of being racist , even in cases where this is unfounded. The term has been so frequently and liberally used that it has lost much of its significance. Recently, there has been a shift in attitudes when it comes to acknowledging racism from the left, leading to a more lenient response and the making of excuses. I believe in consistency , where everybody is subject to the same set of rules and standards. Completely agree with the first paragraph. Obviously no form of abuse or racism should be acceptable but it's important to decipher if it's a one off heat of the moment or if it's an ongoing trend. And it's also important to then reflect afterwards and apologise and take ownership for a comment too with genuine remorse. I agree that the racist term has been thrown around too much at times by the left and as a result it just creates further division and isolation. People need to discuss the incidents more and find common ground and compromise rather than throwing a label about and ending all form of discussion. The same could be said for other slurs such as gammon, woke, snowflake too. Just pointless labels which mean very little and end any sensible discussion. I'd say the same goes for using the terms left/right excessively too, something I'm guilty of myself. Once we use these terms we're effectively generalising a large group of people. All lefties do x, y or z would be deemed racist if the word leftie was replaced with blacks. In reality though both are doing the same; generalising a group of people based on a feature or belief and stereotyping them and making prejudice comments.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 14:26:48 GMT
I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Diane isn't the only Labour MP to be accused of racism over the last 6 months, but the way she's been treated is different from the others. I can understand that those who don't follow politics in such depth may not be aware of the other instances and thus don't realise the difference in treatment, this is why I am pointing it out. Do you think Diane Abbott should continue to be treated differently from other Labour members accused of racism? Or do you also think that different rules shouldn't apply? Personally I don't really believe in or agree with the racist label being thrown around the way it is as it usually results in any decent discussion disintegrating and the conversation transforming into something you'd see in a playground with slurs being thrown back and forth. I think everyone is entitled to a view or an opinion and they should be given the opportunity to explain and elaborate on it as often a misunderstanding can cause for people to throw these labels out. I've been called an "Irish c*nt" many times and I just take it as a joke and a laugh. Whereas if someone is called a black or a paki c*nt then it is deemed racist. And of course in both scenarios some people do intend it to be prejeduce and racist. But I also think alot of times it's just the spur of the moment like tall cunt, speccy cunt, ugly cunt, skinny cunt. Someone maybe in the heat of the moment looking for the first descriptive word for someone followed by c*nt. Of course not a nice thing to say, but doesn't always have the racist undertones which some make out either. I think with Diane that she has been the target of alot of attacks and abuse on social media for a long time and she's an easy target. I think her comments were poorly worded and could be interpreted as racist, but I don't think they were intended to come out that way. And while I can't speak for travellers or jewish people, I do agree that the prejudice received by black people is much worse than that received by irish people. At least in my experience living in England. Sometimes I think there can be a bit of faux outrage when it comes to Diane too due to people disliking her as an individual. I don't think she's being treated differently by Labour or Starmer due to her skin colour though - not at all. I think she's being treated differently due to her more socialist further left believes than Kier Starmer and she's just one of many more "further left" members of the labour party to be pushed out and purged under him. And as someone further left in the party, I find that disappointing because it feels like Labour are treating the left of the party much different from the right, and thus I have little confidence in them at the moment. There is definitely a pattern emerging of white racists getting their retaliation in first and accusing non-white people of being racist at every opportunity - Sadiq Khan is another recent example. You are right - it's easy to take something out of context or something clumsily worded and shout racist. That isn't to say non-white people cant be racist - that's clearly nonsense. As is labelling everyone on the right racist and everyone on the left non-racist - that's bollocks as well. In terms of Labour purging the left its history repeating itself and to be fair the left have done the same when they have held the reins as well. The problem is no one party can embrace the full range of views out there and that is true of both left and right. I think there is a need for a proper left wing party and one that represents the socially conservative right wing working class vote - neither Labour nor the Tories really represent either of these groups. It's first past the post and the two party state this supports that needs addressing - the current system just effectively disenfranchises millions of people of every political outlook outside the those temporarily in charge of the two "main" parties. The political debates and their conclusion should be happening in Parliament - not in the corridors of Tory and Labour headquarters. Agree with everything there too mate.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 14:33:11 GMT
In my view, the outcome of a situation should be influenced by whether the person involved made an isolated angry comment or if they have a pattern of making racist statements. It is important to distinguish between these two scenarios because they are clearly different in nature. For years, the left has been consistently accusing individuals on the right of being racist , even in cases where this is unfounded. The term has been so frequently and liberally used that it has lost much of its significance. Recently, there has been a shift in attitudes when it comes to acknowledging racism from the left, leading to a more lenient response and the making of excuses. I believe in consistency , where everybody is subject to the same set of rules and standards. Completely agree with the first paragraph. Obviously no form of abuse or racism should be acceptable but it's important to decipher if it's a one off heat of the moment or if it's an ongoing trend. And it's also important to then reflect afterwards and apologise and take ownership for a comment too with genuine remorse. I agree that the racist term has been thrown around too much at times by the left and as a result it just creates further division and isolation. People need to discuss the incidents more and find common ground and compromise rather than throwing a label about and ending all form of discussion. The same could be said for other slurs such as gammon, woke, snowflake too. Just pointless labels which mean very little and end any sensible discussion. I'd say the same goes for using the terms left/right excessively too, something I'm guilty of myself. Once we use these terms we're effectively generalising a large group of people. All lefties do x, y or z would be deemed racist if the word leftie was replaced with blacks. In reality though both are doing the same; generalising a group of people based on a feature or belief and stereotyping them and making prejudice comments. I agree, the trouble is the left have become associated with wokeness, and being overly soft whereas the right have become associated with racism and toxic masculinity. As humans we love putting each other in boxes.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 20, 2023 14:56:55 GMT
Over the years Abbott has said things that in some cases may be considered racist to some
About as many times as David lammy
Ones lost the whip the others in the shadow cabinet Both are as racist as each other or not racist at all
The difference lammy is a starmer lickspittle whereas Abbott holds political views that differ from the leadership It’s ultimately a purge against descent dressed up as racism
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 15:21:20 GMT
Over the years Abbott has said things that in some cases may be considered racist to some About as many times as David lammy Ones lost the whip the others in the shadow cabinet Both are as racist as each other or not racist at all The difference lammy is a starmer lickspittle whereas Abbott holds political views that differ from the leadership It’s ultimately a purge against descent dressed up as racism I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 20, 2023 15:39:39 GMT
Over the years Abbott has said things that in some cases may be considered racist to some About as many times as David lammy Ones lost the whip the others in the shadow cabinet Both are as racist as each other or not racist at all The difference lammy is a starmer lickspittle whereas Abbott holds political views that differ from the leadership It’s ultimately a purge against descent dressed up as racism I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. Correct it can’t But also some of the things lammy has come out with are equally unpleasant The question is why are they being dealt with differently
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 15:42:52 GMT
Over the years Abbott has said things that in some cases may be considered racist to some About as many times as David lammy Ones lost the whip the others in the shadow cabinet Both are as racist as each other or not racist at all The difference lammy is a starmer lickspittle whereas Abbott holds political views that differ from the leadership It’s ultimately a purge against descent dressed up as racism I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. Is it possible to get the full context of this quote. The only record I can find of it is from this newspaper snippet - archive.org/details/15November1985SocialistActionIssueWithDianeAbbottClaimThatAllWhitePeopleAreRacist/page/n3/mode/1upBut for some reason the only bit that's ineligible is the part which contains that full quote. That was nearly 40 years ago now too. Aside from Abbott, which other MPs of the last 20 years do you believe are racist?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 15:52:01 GMT
I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. Correct it can’t But also some of the things lammy has come out with are equally unpleasant The question is why are they being dealt with differently Because as you rightly pointed out it doesn't suit the agenda. Stay nicely in the centre/right of the party and hope the lefties (Corbyn, Abbott etc) don't sink the boat before the election.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 20, 2023 15:59:45 GMT
Completely agree with the first paragraph. Obviously no form of abuse or racism should be acceptable but it's important to decipher if it's a one off heat of the moment or if it's an ongoing trend. And it's also important to then reflect afterwards and apologise and take ownership for a comment too with genuine remorse. I agree that the racist term has been thrown around too much at times by the left and as a result it just creates further division and isolation. People need to discuss the incidents more and find common ground and compromise rather than throwing a label about and ending all form of discussion. The same could be said for other slurs such as gammon, woke, snowflake too. Just pointless labels which mean very little and end any sensible discussion. I'd say the same goes for using the terms left/right excessively too, something I'm guilty of myself. Once we use these terms we're effectively generalising a large group of people. All lefties do x, y or z would be deemed racist if the word leftie was replaced with blacks. In reality though both are doing the same; generalising a group of people based on a feature or belief and stereotyping them and making prejudice comments. I agree, the trouble is the left have become associated with wokeness, and being overly soft whereas the right have become associated with racism and toxic masculinity. As humans we love putting each other in boxes. The box I have the Tories in is a bunch of cunts all looking out for themselves. There is one thing you don't get with Tories and that's teamwork. They all want to stab each other in the back to get to the top. Society will only work for the people when everyone helps each other no matter their background or situation. Corbyn had a lot of things right but his stance on nuclear weapons and defense was wrong. If Corbyn was as strong on defense as he was with his policies he would have been PM.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 20, 2023 16:19:25 GMT
I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. Is it possible to get the full context of this quote. The only record I can find of it is from this newspaper snippet - archive.org/details/15November1985SocialistActionIssueWithDianeAbbottClaimThatAllWhitePeopleAreRacist/page/n3/mode/1upBut for some reason the only bit that's ineligible is the part which contains that full quote. That was nearly 40 years ago now too. Aside from Abbott, which other MPs of the last 20 years do you believe are racist? Neil Coyle for one who has recently had the Labour Whip restored having as I understand it gone through a different disciplinary procedure than Abbott will face.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 20, 2023 16:35:50 GMT
I agree, the trouble is the left have become associated with wokeness, and being overly soft whereas the right have become associated with racism and toxic masculinity. As humans we love putting each other in boxes. The box I have the Tories in is a bunch of cunts all looking out for themselves. There is one thing you don't get with Tories and that's teamwork. They all want to stab each other in the back to get to the top. Society will only work for the people when everyone helps each other no matter their background or situation. Corbyn had a lot of things right but his stance on nuclear weapons and defense was wrong. If Corbyn was as strong on defense as he was with his policies he would have been PM. You don’t get teamwork from Tory’s they spend their time stabbing each other in the back 😂 Wether you like it or not you are describing the most successful democratic political party the world has probably ever seen Come the next election they will be all singing from the same song sheet
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 17:02:47 GMT
I agree, the trouble is the left have become associated with wokeness, and being overly soft whereas the right have become associated with racism and toxic masculinity. As humans we love putting each other in boxes. The box I have the Tories in is a bunch of cunts all looking out for themselves. There is one thing you don't get with Tories and that's teamwork. They all want to stab each other in the back to get to the top. Society will only work for the people when everyone helps each other no matter their background or situation. Corbyn had a lot of things right but his stance on nuclear weapons and defense was wrong. If Corbyn was as strong on defense as he was with his policies he would have been PM. To be fair that's probably the same as the box I have them in.
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