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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 11:50:59 GMT
not nessacarily. Just because we sign Che Adams doesn't mean afobe is written off does it? For what it's worth, take Rowett out of the equation I feel NJ is a decent long term appointment, but there is every chance it will get worse before it gets better. I'm looking forward to seeing this squad with this defence that GR was supposed to be doing better with to start getting more wins than GR managed. Who was Adams going to play instead of then, given he played with one striker? I agree it could get worse before it gets better, Jones in addition to the learning curve has no bedding in time and an even bigger job on his hands because of the mess his idiot predecessor bequeathed to him, which involved further unbalancing the squad and spending most of the budget to do so. Adams can play all across the frontline, he creates, has power and pace, he'd have been used all across that front 3 at some point or another even alongside afobe in CF He could have gone 442 as a plan b playing Adams alongside afobe.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 12:05:38 GMT
Who was Adams going to play instead of then, given he played with one striker? I agree it could get worse before it gets better, Jones in addition to the learning curve has no bedding in time and an even bigger job on his hands because of the mess his idiot predecessor bequeathed to him, which involved further unbalancing the squad and spending most of the budget to do so. Adams can play all across the frontline, he creates, has power and pace, he'd have been used all across that front 3 at some point or another even alongside afobe in CF He could have gone 442 as a plan b playing Adams alongside afobe. Ah yes, the famous Plan B that he wasn’t remotely interested in looking at and actively laughed off as an option, that one? Rowett spent the part of £30m on attacking options that didn’t fit his first choice system, it would have been a ballsy shout to trust him with money for more.
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Post by march4 on Jan 14, 2019 12:07:09 GMT
Yes we can. Very easily.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 12:10:52 GMT
Adams can play all across the frontline, he creates, has power and pace, he'd have been used all across that front 3 at some point or another even alongside afobe in CF He could have gone 442 as a plan b playing Adams alongside afobe. Ah yes, the famous Plan B that he wasn’t remotely interested in looking at and actively laughed off as an option, that one? Rowett spent the part of £30m on attacking options that didn’t fit his first choice system, it would have been a ballsy shout to trust him with money for more. So Adams can't play all across the frontline then? And we never tried 442 under Rowett? You'll probably find we signed McLean partly due to a lack of calcium & workrate in the squad. Still would have been a good squad player even after Adams signed
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Jan 14, 2019 12:24:19 GMT
Ah yes, the famous Plan B that he wasn’t remotely interested in looking at and actively laughed off as an option, that one? Rowett spent the part of £30m on attacking options that didn’t fit his first choice system, it would have been a ballsy shout to trust him with money for more. So Adams can't play all across the frontline then? And we never tried 442 under Rowett? You'll probably find we signed McLean partly due to a lack of calcium & workrate in the squad. Still would have been a good squad player even after Adams signed Adam
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 12:26:06 GMT
So Adams can't play all across the frontline then? And we never tried 442 under Rowett? You'll probably find we signed McLean partly due to a lack of calcium & workrate in the squad. Still would have been a good squad player even after Adams signed Adam Che Adams
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Jan 14, 2019 12:29:25 GMT
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 13:05:09 GMT
Ah yes, the famous Plan B that he wasn’t remotely interested in looking at and actively laughed off as an option, that one? Rowett spent the part of £30m on attacking options that didn’t fit his first choice system, it would have been a ballsy shout to trust him with money for more. So Adams can't play all across the frontline then? And we never tried 442 under Rowett? You'll probably find we signed McLean partly due to a lack of calcium & workrate in the squad. Still would have been a good squad player even after Adams signed He tried 442 early on and then in his last game when he knew he was going. Prior to that he'd actually laughed it off (and I don't entirely blame him - 442 has had its day) and laughed off the idea he'd done anything other than 4-3-3, giving us the laughable Liverpool/Man City comparison as a reason why. McClean was one of his top targets, 'squad player' wasn't the intention.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 13:16:50 GMT
So Adams can't play all across the frontline then? And we never tried 442 under Rowett? You'll probably find we signed McLean partly due to a lack of calcium & workrate in the squad. Still would have been a good squad player even after Adams signed He tried 442 early on and then in his last game when he knew he was going. Prior to that he'd actually laughed it off (and I don't entirely blame him - 442 has had its day) and laughed off the idea he'd done anything other than 4-3-3, giving us the laughable Liverpool/Man City comparison as a reason why. McClean was one of his top targets, 'squad player' wasn't the intention. we could go on all day. Thing is though he had 6 months to turn a train wreck into a top side? Really? The state we were in anybody deserves 2 years to rebuild, say after January we would have probably signed Adams like you say. Defence in the summer with probs 2 midfielders shifted for new and we would have been a different animal next season. People wanted an 'instant' 1 summer turn around.. unrealistic imo considering the dross allready here. He was always on a hiding to nothing if he had 6 month
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 13:21:09 GMT
He tried 442 early on and then in his last game when he knew he was going. Prior to that he'd actually laughed it off (and I don't entirely blame him - 442 has had its day) and laughed off the idea he'd done anything other than 4-3-3, giving us the laughable Liverpool/Man City comparison as a reason why. McClean was one of his top targets, 'squad player' wasn't the intention. we could go on all day. Thing is though he had 6 months to turn a train wreck into a top side? Really? The state we were in anybody deserves 2 years to rebuild, say after January we would have probably signed Adams like you say. Defence in the summer with probs 2 midfielders shifted for new and we would have been a different animal next season. People wanted an 'instant' 1 summer turn around.. unrealistic imo considering the dross allready here. He was always on a hiding to nothing if he had 6 month I think 'the state we were in' is overstated anyway and he didn't help things. You still haven't really answered why he had to wait until January to target the kind of players he could've done with the biggest budget in the league, rather than signing a number of players who've only made things worse and didn't fit his plan.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 13:22:11 GMT
'Luckily' 😁 Che Adams won't be signing now 'ey so Gazza hasn't wasted anymore of coatseys billions.
We've got 'boj' back instead, we dont need che adams boj will keep us happy. let's reassess in the summer after we've evaluated the squad 😁
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 13:28:18 GMT
'Luckily' 😁 Che Adams won't be signing now 'ey so Gazza hasn't wasted anymore of coatseys billions. We've got 'boj' back instead, we dont need che adams boj will keep us happy. let's reassess in the summer after we've evaluated the squad 😁 The issue was never so much Bojan specifically as the lack of creativity in the squad as a whole. But yeah, luckily you've stated you're prepared to be as patient with Jones as you were with Rowett, and I'm sure you'll stick to that.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 13:29:41 GMT
'Luckily' 😁 Che Adams won't be signing now 'ey so Gazza hasn't wasted anymore of coatseys billions. We've got 'boj' back instead, we dont need che adams boj will keep us happy. let's reassess in the summer after we've evaluated the squad 😁 The issue was never so much Bojan specifically as the lack of creativity in the squad as a whole. But yeah, luckily you've stated you're prepared to be as patient with Jones as you were with Rowett, and I'm sure you'll stick to that. I will, i'm not sure everybody else will though
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 13:30:16 GMT
The issue was never so much Bojan specifically as the lack of creativity in the squad as a whole. But yeah, luckily you've stated you're prepared to be as patient with Jones as you were with Rowett, and I'm sure you'll stick to that. I will, i'm not sure everybody else will though It will depend on results and performances.
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Post by Absolution on Jan 14, 2019 13:38:59 GMT
I think the patience thing works on two levels.
Most of us have probably given up on promotion, and missing out in itself won't be held against Jones.
Equally though, we all judge games on what we can see, and if there's no discernable improvement on what was happening under Rowett within the next four or five weeks then the tide will turn against him, rightly or wrongly.
Just trying to be realistic.
Edit: I have no idea why I posted the above on this thread. Thought I was posting on a thread about being patient with Jones, but now can't see that it even exists. That's a bit worrying!
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 15:34:20 GMT
I will, i'm not sure everybody else will though It will depend on results and performances. 6 months then after the summer window?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 17:35:16 GMT
It will depend on results and performances. 6 months then after the summer window? If there are encouraging signs in the performances that there are reasons to be cheerful, particularly if the football doesn't make you pray for a malevolent sparrow to peck out your eyes, fans will be patient.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 17:41:45 GMT
6 months then after the summer window? If there are encouraging signs in the performances that there are reasons to be cheerful, particularly if the football doesn't make you pray for a malevolent sparrow to peck out your eyes, fans will be patient. I'll believe it when I see it, the benchmark has been set, fans know now if the manager doesn't bow to supporters superior knowledge the manager will be lynched.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 17:48:47 GMT
I think the patience thing works on two levels. Most of us have probably given up on promotion, and missing out in itself won't be held against Jones. Equally though, we all judge games on what we can see, and if there's no discernable improvement on what was happening under Rowett within the next four or five weeks then the tide will turn against him, rightly or wrongly. Just trying to be realistic. Edit: I have no idea why I posted the above on this thread. Thought I was posting on a thread about being patient with Jones, but now can't see that it even exists. That's a bit worrying! Well you did make the post so I'll take from there. There's a great deal of anxiety among supporters, as opposed to the outright aggression towards Rowett. I think that's understandable given what we've been served over a prolonged period. But Jones arrives with a great deal of excitement, which translates into a great deal of support. He'll be given a long rein, as long as he doesn't alienate supporters, in terms of the style of playing he's promised, his clean slate to our recent misfits, and, obviously, provided comments don't turn on the fan base.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 17:49:03 GMT
If there are encouraging signs in the performances that there are reasons to be cheerful, particularly if the football doesn't make you pray for a malevolent sparrow to peck out your eyes, fans will be patient. I'll believe it when I see it, the benchmark has been set, fans know now if the manager doesn't bow to supporters superior knowledge the manager will be lynched. They were patient with Hughes. They'd have been patient with Rowett if he hadn't churned out such tedious, ineffective shite and then chirped the fans for not liking it.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 14, 2019 17:53:59 GMT
I'll believe it when I see it, the benchmark has been set, fans know now if the manager doesn't bow to supporters superior knowledge the manager will be lynched. They were patient with Hughes. They'd have been patient with Rowett if he hadn't churned out such tedious, ineffective shite and then chirped the fans for not liking it. You watch this time next year if we arn't in the play off places. Back to square 1 now, we'd have been on second base regards to building this summer with Rowett. The pressure is on for promotion next season or we'll be a 3rd year out of the premiership and out of parachute payments.. Coates was under pressure to sack Rowett to prove he was still on the ball, wrong call imo. He should have said upon hiring Rowett that promotion was a 2 year project
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2019 18:07:23 GMT
They were patient with Hughes. They'd have been patient with Rowett if he hadn't churned out such tedious, ineffective shite and then chirped the fans for not liking it. You watch this time next year if we arn't in the play off places. Back to square 1 now, we'd have been on second base regards to building this summer with Rowett. The pressure is on for promotion next season or we'll be a 3rd year out of the premiership and out of parachute payments.. Coates was under pressure to sack Rowett to prove he was still on the ball, wrong call imo. He should have said upon hiring Rowett that promotion was a 2 year project Rowett was doing absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get us promoted in 10 years, let alone two.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 8:22:01 GMT
Best not think about it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 8:38:12 GMT
You watch this time next year if we arn't in the play off places. Back to square 1 now, we'd have been on second base regards to building this summer with Rowett. The pressure is on for promotion next season or we'll be a 3rd year out of the premiership and out of parachute payments.. Coates was under pressure to sack Rowett to prove he was still on the ball, wrong call imo. He should have said upon hiring Rowett that promotion was a 2 year project Rowett was doing absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get us promoted in 10 years, let alone two. Staggering that anyone is defending him.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 15, 2019 8:58:24 GMT
They were patient with Hughes. They'd have been patient with Rowett if he hadn't churned out such tedious, ineffective shite and then chirped the fans for not liking it. You watch this time next year if we arn't in the play off places. Back to square 1 now, we'd have been on second base regards to building this summer with Rowett. The pressure is on for promotion next season or we'll be a 3rd year out of the premiership and out of parachute payments.. Coates was under pressure to sack Rowett to prove he was still on the ball, wrong call imo. He should have said upon hiring Rowett that promotion was a 2 year project Really? Arrives in May and has loads of time to assess the squad. Makes McClean his #1 priority signing, despite WBA sticking out for a ridiculous sum. Brings in Afobe for a huge fee, when Wolves clearly decide he is not for them although they have just bought him. Has a lousy pre-season - "Wait till the proper matches start" say his defenders. Fails to strengthen the defence till just before the first match, consequently no proper pre-season for the defence, and signs 2 Everton old cast offs. Has a dreadful start to the season, losing to the likes of promoted Wigan - "Wait till we have played 10 matches" say his defenders. Spends/commits a fortune on new players by the end of the transfer window. Plays the most boring, negative football imaginable. Near the bottom of the league for shots on target. Starts blaming players for poor play, persists in picking players playing badly. Retaliates to fans frustration. The gap between our position and the play-off places gradually widens, till by half point of the season, we need to get 2 points per game to have any reasonable chance of promotion. and you say it is the wrong call to sack him!
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 15, 2019 9:17:33 GMT
You watch this time next year if we arn't in the play off places. Back to square 1 now, we'd have been on second base regards to building this summer with Rowett. The pressure is on for promotion next season or we'll be a 3rd year out of the premiership and out of parachute payments.. Coates was under pressure to sack Rowett to prove he was still on the ball, wrong call imo. He should have said upon hiring Rowett that promotion was a 2 year project Really? Arrives in May and has loads of time to assess the squad. Makes McClean his #1 priority signing, despite WBA sticking out for a ridiculous sum. Brings in Afobe for a huge fee, when Wolves clearly decide he is not for them although they have just bought him. Has a lousy pre-season - "Wait till the proper matches start" say his defenders. Fails to strengthen the defence till just before the first match, consequently no proper pre-season for the defence, and signs 2 Everton old cast offs. Has a dreadful start to the season, losing to the likes of promoted Wigan - "Wait till we have played 10 matches" say his defenders. Spends/commits a fortune on new players by the end of the transfer window. Plays the most boring, negative football imaginable. Near the bottom of the league for shots on target. Starts blaming players for poor play, persists in picking players playing badly. Retaliates to fans frustration. The gap between our position and the play-off places gradually widens, till by half point of the season, we need to get 2 points per game to have any reasonable chance of promotion. and you say it is the wrong call to sack him! put it into perspective mate, this bunch of stiffs were dead on their feet. This was never an instant fix, complete fantasy, it needed a full cull. To sack the manager now after 6 month when it's quite obvious it was a mmassive rebuild is just lunacy. We would have come out of the summer a lot stronger after sorting out the defence, we'd have signed Che Adams this January... made changes in defence and centre mid and next season we'd have been a different animal. It's impatience of the highest order. We had better hope these 'stiffs'suddenly find this high energy that that they havnt shown all season because NJ's game requires it. What evidence have you seen that these players have got it in them??? People also say Rowett wasted money yet his 2 biggest buys are our top goalscorers. The rebuild was half done, sheer stupidity to replace the man with a massive job on his hands after 6 month
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 15, 2019 9:23:18 GMT
If it's a magician we wanted we should have hired Paul daniels
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Post by starkiller on Jan 15, 2019 9:43:33 GMT
Brentford were 19th at the start of play yesterday. They absolutely murdered us. Of course we could still go down. Nothing would surprise me with this shower. Pound for pound, they have to be one of the worst teams we've ever had. They are certainly amongst the least likeable. Not since Brian little's days have I held such complete and utter contempt for a stoke city team. It's way beyond Brian Little... The money these wasters are on. And let's not forget that the worst culprits are nowhere near the team. Many are nowhere near the club. I'm taking about cunts like imbula.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 15, 2019 9:58:45 GMT
Really? Arrives in May and has loads of time to assess the squad. Makes McClean his #1 priority signing, despite WBA sticking out for a ridiculous sum. Brings in Afobe for a huge fee, when Wolves clearly decide he is not for them although they have just bought him. Has a lousy pre-season - "Wait till the proper matches start" say his defenders. Fails to strengthen the defence till just before the first match, consequently no proper pre-season for the defence, and signs 2 Everton old cast offs. Has a dreadful start to the season, losing to the likes of promoted Wigan - "Wait till we have played 10 matches" say his defenders. Spends/commits a fortune on new players by the end of the transfer window. Plays the most boring, negative football imaginable. Near the bottom of the league for shots on target. Starts blaming players for poor play, persists in picking players playing badly. Retaliates to fans frustration. The gap between our position and the play-off places gradually widens, till by half point of the season, we need to get 2 points per game to have any reasonable chance of promotion. and you say it is the wrong call to sack him! put it into perspective mate, this bunch of stiffs were dead on their feet. This was never an instant fix, complete fantasy, it needed a full cull. To sack the manager now after 6 month when it's quite obvious it was a mmassive rebuild is just lunacy. We would have come out of the summer a lot stronger after sorting out the defence, we'd have signed Che Adams this January... made changes in defence and centre mid and next season we'd have been a different animal. It's impatience of the highest order. We had better hope these 'stiffs'suddenly find this high energy that that they havnt shown all season because NJ's game requires it. What evidence have you seen that these players have got it in them??? People also say Rowett wasted money yet his 2 biggest buys are our top goalscorers. The rebuild was half done, sheer stupidity to replace the man with a massive job on his hands after 6 month There’s absolutely no basis for saying he’d have improved us or we’d have been stronger because there’s absolutely no evidence to suggest we would. Of his two biggest signings, one of them is Afobe who for all the ‘top scorer’ stuff hasn’t performed well, we haven’t played to his strengths and he’s frequently looked uninterested and off the pace. A big part of the problem in the final third was the lack of any presence up front because we entrusted the lone striker role, at considerable expense, to a bloke who simply isn’t one and didn’t give him the service that supports his limited game.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 15, 2019 10:45:39 GMT
put it into perspective mate, this bunch of stiffs were dead on their feet. This was never an instant fix, complete fantasy, it needed a full cull. To sack the manager now after 6 month when it's quite obvious it was a mmassive rebuild is just lunacy. We would have come out of the summer a lot stronger after sorting out the defence, we'd have signed Che Adams this January... made changes in defence and centre mid and next season we'd have been a different animal. It's impatience of the highest order. We had better hope these 'stiffs'suddenly find this high energy that that they havnt shown all season because NJ's game requires it. What evidence have you seen that these players have got it in them??? People also say Rowett wasted money yet his 2 biggest buys are our top goalscorers. The rebuild was half done, sheer stupidity to replace the man with a massive job on his hands after 6 month There’s absolutely no basis for saying he’d have improved us or we’d have been stronger because there’s absolutely no evidence to suggest we would. Of his two biggest signings, one of them is Afobe who for all the ‘top scorer’ stuff hasn’t performed well, we haven’t played to his strengths and he’s frequently looked uninterested and off the pace. A big part of the problem in the final third was the lack of any presence up front because we entrusted the lone striker role, at considerable expense, to a bloke who simply isn’t one and didn’t give him the service that supports his limited game. Don't agree, judging a man after 6 month of a 2 year minimum project doesn't sit right with me.
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