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Post by Pugsley on Jan 1, 2019 22:59:55 GMT
I do completely. What's the point in appointing Rory Delap other than it might give everyone a warm fuzzy feeling for a couple of weeks? Just employ Jokanovic, Bruce or Moyes and get on with it. We need to be absolutely SURE that the man we have in mind is THE man to take us up, not just leap at the first name someone mentions. We've done fuck all due diligence on players and it's cost us big time. Getting a manager right is even more important. We need to know their background, personal life, where things have gone wrong at previous clubs and why, what type of football they play etc etc etc. I'm not advocating Delap for some stupid misty-eyed nostalgia trip, purely the practicalities of having someone/anyone in charge while we sort out who we want and why we want them. Why make a knee-jerk decision on such an important issue when we don't have to? We need a bit of time- maybe only a week or two- to sort this out properly. Put the fucking hippo in charge for all I care; the point is not who the caretaker is, it's that we absolutely HAVE to get the permanent appointment correct and that might take a bit of time. You don't need any due diligence on the names I've suggested which are, unfortunately, the names that will be considered today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year with Coates in charge.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 1, 2019 23:06:43 GMT
8 points over 2O games can be done, it's a failure in the last three games that's blown us a bit off course. Based on the last 3 games, it will take us 20 games to get 8 points😉 Clearly the last 3 games have been poor, he needs to get a good run going straight away and if he can't then he will be replaced.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 1, 2019 23:07:24 GMT
Zero, but get the set up right and there's a chance, look at Hull, won 5 in a row and are probably thinking they have a chance now, we have some good players that are capable, we need to ditch 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 go with Ince on the left and we'd look much better but that probably means saying bye to Rowett. Hull scored 6 today against a team we struggled to get a shot on target against last week. There is absolutely no chance that Rowett could produce a team that even has 6 shots on target let alone score 6 goals. Which is why I've said it only happens without Rowett.
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Post by Davef on Jan 1, 2019 23:07:57 GMT
Eight is more than ‘a few’. Eight wins in 26. That isn’t good enough and that isn’t a team going up. And he’s committed to this system which isn’t working and which is the reason we are where we are. Being difficult to beat stops you getting relegated. It doesn’t get you promoted. You need more. He can’t deliver that. 8 points over 2O games can be done, it's a failure in the last three games that's blown us a bit off course. You simply can't be watching Stoke if you think Gary Rowett has even the slightest chance of winning promotion. To get into the play offs we're probably going to have to have a second half of the season similar to Sheffield United's first half the season. Now bearing in mind that we can't string two wins together, haven't scored more than two goals in a game for over a year, have a negative goal difference and will be relying on half a dozen teams above us not maintaining any form, that's an extremely tall order. It would be a tough job for a new manager, let alone the current one.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jan 1, 2019 23:09:42 GMT
Get rid of Scholes and Cartwright first. Rowett isn’t doing a good enough job, no doubt about it, but the recruitment has been awful for a while now and I don’t want the next manager to be impeded by it. This club needs a fresh start.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:11:36 GMT
Get rid of Scholes and Cartwright first. Rowett isn’t doing a good enough job, no doubt about it, but the recruitment has been awful for a while now and I don’t want the next manager to be impeded by it. This club needs a fresh start. Who do you think wasn’t a Rowett signing, of the summer business done?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 1, 2019 23:16:43 GMT
8 points over 2O games can be done, it's a failure in the last three games that's blown us a bit off course. You simply can't be watching Stoke if you think Gary Rowett has even the slightest chance of winning promotion. To get into the play offs we're probably going to have a second half of the season similar to Sheffield United's first half the season. Now bearing in mind that we can't string two wins together, haven't scored more than two goals in a game for over a year, have a negative goal difference and will be relying on half a dozen teams above us not maintaining any form, that's an extremely tall order. It would be a tough job for a new manager, let alone the current one. He's got a chance of the play offs, what you are suggesting is that he should be sacked, but I'm saying don't rush out and make another error like we did last season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:18:42 GMT
You simply can't be watching Stoke if you think Gary Rowett has even the slightest chance of winning promotion. To get into the play offs we're probably going to have a second half of the season similar to Sheffield United's first half the season. Now bearing in mind that we can't string two wins together, haven't scored more than two goals in a game for over a year, have a negative goal difference and will be relying on half a dozen teams above us not maintaining any form, that's an extremely tall order. It would be a tough job for a new manager, let alone the current one. He's got a chance of the play offs, what you are suggesting is that he should be sacked, but I'm saying don't rush out and make another error like we did last season. The error we made last season was not acting more quickly to sack the manager. We’re in danger of making the same mistake.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 1, 2019 23:22:14 GMT
He's got a chance of the play offs, what you are suggesting is that he should be sacked, but I'm saying don't rush out and make another error like we did last season. The error we made last season was not acting more quickly to sack the manager. We’re in danger of making the same mistake. The error last season was that we sacked Hughes and then got rejected by about 4 candidates, are you suggesting we risk repeating that?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 1, 2019 23:23:05 GMT
Get rid of Scholes and Cartwright first. Rowett isn’t doing a good enough job, no doubt about it, but the recruitment has been awful for a while now and I don’t want the next manager to be impeded by it. This club needs a fresh start. Who do you think wasn’t a Rowett signing, of the summer business done? I know you haven't asked me but I don't think any of them have been signed by anyone else, they all smack of Rowett, I think given the situation its easy just to add it onto Scholes and Cartwright and blame them, they're an easy target. Edit, apart from Etebo of course.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jan 1, 2019 23:24:22 GMT
Get rid of Scholes and Cartwright first. Rowett isn’t doing a good enough job, no doubt about it, but the recruitment has been awful for a while now and I don’t want the next manager to be impeded by it. This club needs a fresh start. Who do you think wasn’t a Rowett signing, of the summer business done? Williams and Martina? We know there were a few players who the manager preferred to them, realistic targets too. The recruitment of Rowett himself was a bad choice but apparently Coates Jnr is to blame for that one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:26:20 GMT
The error we made last season was not acting more quickly to sack the manager. We’re in danger of making the same mistake. The error last season was that we sacked Hughes and then got rejected by about 4 candidates, are you suggesting we risk repeating that? The difference is that we have a significantly better squad relative to the rest of the league, there are more free available candidates and we’re better placed to make a caretaker appointment. Rowett’s position is untenable because his methods aren’t working, he isn’t going to change and he’s not going to win the fans back.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:28:13 GMT
Who do you think wasn’t a Rowett signing, of the summer business done? Williams and Martina? We know there were a few players who the manager preferred to them, realistic targets too. The recruitment of Rowett himself was a bad choice but apparently Coates Jnr is to blame for that one. They might not have been first choice, but they were still his signings weren’t they? If they weren’t Rowett signings, do you think they’d be such fixtures in the side? Etebo isn’t? Bauer isn’t?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 1, 2019 23:35:09 GMT
The error last season was that we sacked Hughes and then got rejected by about 4 candidates, are you suggesting we risk repeating that? The difference is that we have a significantly better squad relative to the rest of the league, there are more free available candidates and we’re better placed to make a caretaker appointment. Rowett’s position is untenable because his methods aren’t working, he isn’t going to change and he’s not going to win the fans back. Since I first posted on here we have sacked 3 managers and could sack a 4th, all done with massive backing on here.
At the same time we have gone from mid table in the PL to mid table in the Championship, it's been a good policy that has, hasn't it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:38:51 GMT
The difference is that we have a significantly better squad relative to the rest of the league, there are more free available candidates and we’re better placed to make a caretaker appointment. Rowett’s position is untenable because his methods aren’t working, he isn’t going to change and he’s not going to win the fans back. Since I first posted on here we have sacked 3 managers and could sack a 4th, all done with massive backing on here.
At the same time we have gone from mid table in the PL to mid table in the Championship, it's been a good policy that has, hasn't it?
All of those sackings were justified and weren’t the reasons for our decline. If you actually watched us you’d see the bigger picture.
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Post by stokieinaus on Jan 1, 2019 23:41:55 GMT
Based on the last 3 games, it will take us 20 games to get 8 points😉 Clearly the last 3 games have been poor, he needs to get a good run going straight away and if he can't then he will be replaced.
I look at it like a game of Poker, you have the better hand but you just don't know how to manipulate your opponents for you to win. You eventually get found out and the table recognises your errors, eventually, you fall out of the game. Rowett in the last 3 games has had the upper hand but cannot use the advantage to win games. He will soon come up against decent opposition and will start to fall. We have been here too often and need to act before its too late. In all seriousness we should have been smashing this league, just like wolves did. We are a club in serious trouble and if we don't do something about it, we could end up like other has been clubs.
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 1, 2019 23:42:01 GMT
8 points over 2O games can be done, it's a failure in the last three games that's blown us a bit off course. You simply can't be watching Stoke if you think Gary Rowett has even the slightest chance of winning promotion. To get into the play offs we're probably going to have to have a second half of the season similar to Sheffield United's first half the season. Now bearing in mind that we can't string two wins together, haven't scored more than two goals in a game for over a year, have a negative goal difference and will be relying on half a dozen teams above us not maintaining any form, that's an extremely tall order. It would be a tough job for a new manager, let alone the current one. Spot on
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 1, 2019 23:47:39 GMT
Since I first posted on here we have sacked 3 managers and could sack a 4th, all done with massive backing on here.
At the same time we have gone from mid table in the PL to mid table in the Championship, it's been a good policy that has, hasn't it?
All of those sackings were justified and weren’t the reasons for our decline. If you actually watched us you’d see the bigger picture. No Rob, it's a group of fans and the Stoke City Board taking the simplistic view that a clubs decline is always the managers fault, in other words he is the scapegoat.
Three managers sacked and possibly a fourth, but no other major changes in the rest of the senior staff at the club.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:53:42 GMT
All of those sackings were justified and weren’t the reasons for our decline. If you actually watched us you’d see the bigger picture. No Rob, it's a group of fans and the Stoke City Board taking the simplistic view that a clubs decline is always the managers fault, in other words he is the scapegoat.
Three managers sacked and possibly a fourth, but no other major changes in the rest of the senior staff at the club.
The other senior staff need to change. But what happens on the pitch is the manager’s fault. He’s signed the players. They’re his tactics. He picks the team. What do you think is going to change? How are things going to improve based on what you’ve seen?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 1, 2019 23:56:05 GMT
All of those sackings were justified and weren’t the reasons for our decline. If you actually watched us you’d see the bigger picture. No Rob, it's a group of fans and the Stoke City Board taking the simplistic view that a clubs decline is always the managers fault, in other words he is the scapegoat. Three managers sacked and possibly a fourth, but no other major changes in the rest of the senior staff at the club.
Our current shitness is the managers fault.
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Post by neilb987 on Jan 2, 2019 0:00:54 GMT
As long as we keep him there’s no chance. He doesn’t understand what the problem is, his interview made that clear. The managers job is to apply the methods he believes in, and then be judged over a period of time on the results he achieves.
It's not his job to listen to thousands of fans views and change what he believes is right, if HIS methods fail then he will pay for it with his job.
The play offs are still on, a rushed decision on the manager now would be repeating the mistake of last season, in my opinion.
The manager’s job is to continually assess the capabilities of his players in comparison with whatever game plan or style he wishes to impart to the team. If his players are unable to play the way he wants them to, if the way he is asking them to play is clear being ineffective, then either has to change the personnel or change the way they are playing. To keep playing the same team using the same tactics and continuing to show the same faults is simply BAD MANAGENENT. This team is crying out for a major change in tactics, and its not going to happen while the manager is too stubborn and inflexible to do this.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2019 0:04:17 GMT
No Rob, it's a group of fans and the Stoke City Board taking the simplistic view that a clubs decline is always the managers fault, in other words he is the scapegoat.
Three managers sacked and possibly a fourth, but no other major changes in the rest of the senior staff at the club.
The other senior staff need to change. But what happens on the pitch is the manager’s fault. He’s signed the players. They’re his tactics. He picks the team. What do you think is going to change? How are things going to improve based on what you’ve seen? He hasn't been given long enough, 26 league games.
A lot of fans expected an immediate return to the PL, it looks as if it will take longer, the vast majority of fans will not except that and the anger has turned on the manager.
There are many big clubs who have struggled to get out of this League, Rowett deserves the chance to see if he can get into the play offs, if he can't then lets have thorough and detailed search for a new man.
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 2, 2019 0:04:37 GMT
All of those sackings were justified and weren’t the reasons for our decline. If you actually watched us you’d see the bigger picture. No Rob, it's a group of fans and the Stoke City Board taking the simplistic view that a clubs decline is always the managers fault, in other words he is the scapegoat. Three managers sacked and possibly a fourth, but no other major changes in the rest of the senior staff at the club.
The last two managers have been awful appointments. The reason that Stoke are now a basket case rests with the way the club has been run from the top down for the last 3 seasons.
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Post by TheProletarian on Jan 2, 2019 0:05:24 GMT
The plan for me is attend as many as I can and throw my support behind the TEAM. Nowt else I can do, unfortunately.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2019 0:06:30 GMT
The other senior staff need to change. But what happens on the pitch is the manager’s fault. He’s signed the players. They’re his tactics. He picks the team. What do you think is going to change? How are things going to improve based on what you’ve seen? He hasn't been given long enough, 26 league games.
A lot of fans expected an immediate return to the PL, it looks as if it will take longer, the vast majority of fans will not except that and the anger has turned on the manager.
There are many big clubs who have struggled to get out of this League, Rowett deserves the chance to see if he can get into the play offs, if he can't then lets have thorough and detailed search for a new man.
What have you seen that makes you think we’ll make the play offs?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 2, 2019 0:08:35 GMT
The other senior staff need to change. But what happens on the pitch is the manager’s fault. He’s signed the players. They’re his tactics. He picks the team. What do you think is going to change? How are things going to improve based on what you’ve seen? He hasn't been given long enough, 26 league games. A lot of fans expected an immediate return to the PL, it looks as if it will take longer, the vast majority of fans will not except that and the anger has turned on the manager. There are many big clubs who have struggled to get out of this League, Rowett deserves the chance to see if he can get into the play offs, if he can't then lets have thorough and detailed search for a new man.
Are we back in 1988?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2019 0:10:06 GMT
The managers job is to apply the methods he believes in, and then be judged over a period of time on the results he achieves.
It's not his job to listen to thousands of fans views and change what he believes is right, if HIS methods fail then he will pay for it with his job.
The play offs are still on, a rushed decision on the manager now would be repeating the mistake of last season, in my opinion.
The manager’s job is to continually assess the capabilities of his players in comparison with whatever game plan or style he wishes to impart to the team. If his players are unable to play the way he wants them to, if the way he is asking them to play is clear being ineffective, then either has to change the personnel or change the way they are playing. To keep playing the same team using the same tactics and continuing to show the same faults is simply BAD MANAGENENT. This team is crying out for a major change in tactics, and its not going to happen while the manager is too stubborn and inflexible to do this. According to a fair few on here Pulis played the wrong tactics, Hughes played the wrong tactics, Lambert played the wrong tactics, despite that the club enjoyed some of the best years in its history, strange that isn't it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2019 0:11:09 GMT
The manager’s job is to continually assess the capabilities of his players in comparison with whatever game plan or style he wishes to impart to the team. If his players are unable to play the way he wants them to, if the way he is asking them to play is clear being ineffective, then either has to change the personnel or change the way they are playing. To keep playing the same team using the same tactics and continuing to show the same faults is simply BAD MANAGENENT. This team is crying out for a major change in tactics, and its not going to happen while the manager is too stubborn and inflexible to do this. According to a fair few on here Pulis played the wrong tactics, Hughes played the wrong tactics, Lambert played the wrong tactics, despite that the club enjoyed some of the best years in its history, strange that isn't it? It’s a lot more nuanced than that and you know it. There’s a reason you steer clear from talk about team selection and tactics though isn’t there?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2019 0:12:25 GMT
He hasn't been given long enough, 26 league games.
A lot of fans expected an immediate return to the PL, it looks as if it will take longer, the vast majority of fans will not except that and the anger has turned on the manager.
There are many big clubs who have struggled to get out of this League, Rowett deserves the chance to see if he can get into the play offs, if he can't then lets have thorough and detailed search for a new man.
What have you seen that makes you think we’ll make the play offs? Stop being naughty Rob and good night.
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 2, 2019 0:12:43 GMT
You have to win football matches to get promoted! We don’t win enough it’s simple logic.
Anyone that has 26 games and a pre season and a selection of players you’ve bought in not to imprint a style and an effective team, says to me he ain’t cut out at this level with this squad.
There are so many examples, lampard has ricks of managerial experience right? I said it a few weeks ago, Hull that really shit side we played in August 23 games ago are above us now!! Who’d have thought that ??
Football whether you like it or lump isn’t necessarily about long term, it doesn’t exist anymore. Ask Watford!
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