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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 11:57:16 GMT
By saying "hopefully" I was well aware that it doesn't always happen. In fact it hasn't happened often enough for quite a while. In Hughes' first year he had Nzonzi, and to some extent also Whelan, who connected very well with the defenders and could do things from deep. We never replaced Nzonzi nor did we Whelan (I have hopes Woods will). So the options for Shawcross (and partners) are limited, and since his ability and willingness to do something constructive with the ball appear equally limiting, what we have instead is what the op described. But that was my point. In the post I quoted you were quite clearly laying the blame for our 'slow play' at the door of Ryan Shawcross. When I pointed out that for parts of the game (and for most of the last 2 years) he hasn't really had much choice you then virtually agreed with me and changed tack aiming your scattergun elsewhere, although you still couldn't resist a snidey dig at Shawcross in your last paragragh. And, I happen to think the OP IS wrong. We weren't brilliant and at times we were bad and just as brittle as w'eve been for some time. But there were parts where we played quite well. We played some decent football and created some good chances. Allen, Etebo, Woods, Martina, Shawcross and Berahino when he came on all had good games. We stuck at it and overcame our bad patches to generally finish the stronger. And when, for spells in the game, we actually started to play a high pressing game we actually looked like a team I wanted to watch and one that would excite me. The goal and the win were very lucky I am under no illusion about that so I'm not blinded by it at all. There is still a lot of work to do but for a lot of us that was an encouraging performance and to call it mostly awful is as far as I'm concerned, simply inaccurate. PS I forgot Afobe who had a blinder apart from missing a sitter. Just to make sure you do get my point: Shawcross is to blame for not developing the constructive side of his game, not just in the last 2-3 years but throughout his career. And he, and we, suffer because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 11:59:27 GMT
It's good for Ryan that he has at least one fan who still believes he's the greatest thing since Tony Pulis played for B'mouth... So you must be one of those fans that I have been informed about ? One of the tiniest minority’s that still carries a grudge against Ryan because Tony Pulis purchased him from Man Utd ? I just don’t understand the logic that you base your opinion on ? Fletcher served Man Utd with great honour and distinction and yet the fans rave about his contribution to the cause and I bet you lead the praise ! All stupid fake assumptions.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 20, 2018 12:08:55 GMT
The first 60 mins or so were pretty dreadful, although we did have two really good changes... just goes to show how poor both sides were. On the plus side: - much improved once Diouf went off. I do not know why he being picked - he can't control the ball, can't score, can't pass. I doubt if he can even chew gum and fart at the same time. - Ryan Woods looks a real find, thought he had an excellent game and freed up Allen and Etebo. And Saido looked like a great partner for Afobe when he came on. Real hope for the future IF Rowlett lets the midfield settle down and doesn't pick Diouf. I think there are obvious options that aren't Diouf or McClean. While the latter is injured, we shouldn't immediately turn to Diouf. He's just not good enough. Who are the obvious options, I'm struggling if I'm honest, Bojan isn't a wide player, neither is Berra and Bauer is a wing back, obviously you could change the set up but its clear he wants us to be playing 4-3-3, I'm not saying I think Diouf is the answer either I just don't see any other options that aren't pretty much the same.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 20, 2018 12:19:16 GMT
But that was my point. In the post I quoted you were quite clearly laying the blame for our 'slow play' at the door of Ryan Shawcross. When I pointed out that for parts of the game (and for most of the last 2 years) he hasn't really had much choice you then virtually agreed with me and changed tack aiming your scattergun elsewhere, although you still couldn't resist a snidey dig at Shawcross in your last paragragh. And, I happen to think the OP IS wrong. We weren't brilliant and at times we were bad and just as brittle as w'eve been for some time. But there were parts where we played quite well. We played some decent football and created some good chances. Allen, Etebo, Woods, Martina, Shawcross and Berahino when he came on all had good games. We stuck at it and overcame our bad patches to generally finish the stronger. And when, for spells in the game, we actually started to play a high pressing game we actually looked like a team I wanted to watch and one that would excite me. The goal and the win were very lucky I am under no illusion about that so I'm not blinded by it at all. There is still a lot of work to do but for a lot of us that was an encouraging performance and to call it mostly awful is as far as I'm concerned, simply inaccurate. PS I forgot Afobe who had a blinder apart from missing a sitter. Just to make sure you do get my point: Shawcross is to blame for not developing the constructive side of his game, not just in the last 2-3 years but throughout his career. And he, and we, suffer because of it. Once again you are either accidentally or deliberately missing my point and changing the goalposts. This was your original quote and to help you I handily highlighted the part I was referring to: "It shouldn't be either.
Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business.
The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions.
Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more."In my reply I was only referring to the sentence I highlighted where you were unequivocally blaming Ryan Shawcross for our slow build up play. Then, in your replies to me and owdstokie2, you completely changed your tack apportioning the blame between midfielders, forwards and managers and actually agreeing that for some time our defenders options to play short have been very limited. So forgive me if I don't get your point.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 20, 2018 12:21:33 GMT
I think there are obvious options that aren't Diouf or McClean. While the latter is injured, we shouldn't immediately turn to Diouf. He's just not good enough. Who are the obvious options, I'm struggling if I'm honest, Bojan isn't a wide player, neither is Berra and Bauer is a wing back, obviously you could change the set up but its clear he wants us to be playing 4-3-3, I'm not saying I think Diouf is the answer either I just don't see any other options that aren't pretty much the same. I think Bauer would do a job. He's pacey, has a good first touch and very committed. Whatever he's done to infuriate Rowett, he's fallen massively behind in the pecking order, but it can't be his ability because he's a better option than Diouf. We don't know about Bojan. Yes he's not a wide player, but we've not given him a chance either. Agree that Bera couldn't really do a job on the left. Too much of a square in a round hole.
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Post by scfc75 on Sept 20, 2018 12:32:57 GMT
What I saw on Tuesday was a marked improvement on the Brentford game. We are not there yet by any means, and still seem reluctant to get forward often enough, but there were definitely glimmers. At the start of the season we looked terrified to get forwards in numbers, at least on Tuesday - and last Saturday - there were glimpses of how we can play.
We’re like a baby giraffe taking its first few steps. It’ll come.
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Post by onefatcopper on Sept 20, 2018 15:44:51 GMT
So you must be one of those fans that I have been informed about ? One of the tiniest minority’s that still carries a grudge against Ryan because Tony Pulis purchased him from Man Utd ? I just don’t understand the logic that you base your opinion on ? Fletcher served Man Utd with great honour and distinction and yet the fans rave about his contribution to the cause and I bet you lead the praise ! All stupid fake assumptions. Well I’m going to unhook you now because this could become farcical, so go swim away and please remember to appreciate Ryan at the peak of his career. Take into your memory bank the grace of movement,every pass made with purpose,the authority as he marshals his defence like a General commanding troops in some Napoleon battle, No I don’t think we will see the likes of Ryan for a considerable amount of time.
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garthcrooks007
Lads'n'Dads
"I'm busier than a one-armed,taxi-driver with crabs!"
Posts: 94
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Post by garthcrooks007 on Sept 20, 2018 18:16:37 GMT
Its possible I'm perverted then, but I took great pleasure on watching the flame haired midfielder pull the strings in midfield. I obtained more pleasure from that than I have done in the last 5 games together I think you'll find describing a player as "flame haired" at the very least puts you on the bi curious spectrum but I wouldn't go so far as perverted. Although "pulling the strings" may indicate S&M tendencies... So to kind of sum it up - Woods gives marwood Wood !
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 20, 2018 19:17:24 GMT
All stupid fake assumptions. Well I’m going to unhook you now because this could become farcical, so go swim away and please remember to appreciate Ryan at the peak of his career. Take into your memory bank the grace of movement,every pass made with purpose,the authority as he marshals his defence like a General commanding troops in some Napoleon battle, No I don’t think we will see the likes of Ryan for a considerable amount of time. You should always throw them back. It's cruel not to. Gives other anglers the chance to hook them later.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 19:24:16 GMT
All stupid fake assumptions. Well I’m going to unhook you now because this could become farcical, so go swim away Thank you for not further disgracing yourself and it became farcical the minute you spoke of Ryan as Beckenbauer's peer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 19:26:36 GMT
Just to make sure you do get my point: Shawcross is to blame for not developing the constructive side of his game, not just in the last 2-3 years but throughout his career. And he, and we, suffer because of it. Once again you are either accidentally or deliberately missing my point and changing the goalposts. This was your original quote and to help you I handily highlighted the part I was referring to: "It shouldn't be either.
Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business.
The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions.
Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more."In my reply I was only referring to the sentence I highlighted where you were unequivocally blaming Ryan Shawcross for our slow build up play. Then, in your replies to me and owdstokie2, you completely changed your tack apportioning the blame between midfielders, forwards and managers and actually agreeing that for some time our defenders options to play short have been very limited. So forgive me if I don't get your point. Yes I blame Shawcross for poor distribution but that does not mean that the midfielders cannot do much better too. Is that clear enough?
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Sept 21, 2018 21:01:12 GMT
The sense of relief after a win is overwhelming but lets not kid ourselves most of that performance was appalling again. Up until 70 minutes we were just slow , laboured, bereft of any ideas, no energy. The comments I heard in the toilets at half time echoed all that. It was pretty shocking. I think we pretty much have the players but still have a manger who struggles to motivate them, play a formation to suit them and has little plan. He left it till the Bera sub to alter the pattern of the game. The high press after that should be how we are most of the game but nothing for 70 minutes? The wide players should have swapped after 20 mins as they were so ineffective. Why play them on their opposite foot - I really hate that it rarely work unless your a top player. It was painful watching Diouf trying to turn inside on his right. Teams seem to find it easy to work us out with quick passing and movement. Relief at a win yes, but most of that was painful again for me. Your wrong. Momentum is building. Get behind them or dont bother. We can do without 'fans' without you SGS
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 22, 2018 8:27:32 GMT
Once again you are either accidentally or deliberately missing my point and changing the goalposts. This was your original quote and to help you I handily highlighted the part I was referring to: "It shouldn't be either.
Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business.
The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions.
Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more."In my reply I was only referring to the sentence I highlighted where you were unequivocally blaming Ryan Shawcross for our slow build up play. Then, in your replies to me and owdstokie2, you completely changed your tack apportioning the blame between midfielders, forwards and managers and actually agreeing that for some time our defenders options to play short have been very limited. So forgive me if I don't get your point. Yes I blame Shawcross for poor distribution but that does not mean that the midfielders cannot do much better too. Is that clear enough? They think it's all over. It is now. Arse.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 15:24:03 GMT
Yes I blame Shawcross for poor distribution but that does not mean that the midfielders cannot do much better too. Is that clear enough? They think it's all over. It is now. Arse. and you.
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Post by george2again on Sept 22, 2018 15:27:01 GMT
Hopefully this will be the end of Rowett. He really is a waste of space. Lets get someone in to try and salvage the play-offs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 15:30:29 GMT
Hopefully this will be the end of Rowett. He really is a waste of space. Lets get someone in to try and salvage the play-offs. Play offs? 😂😂😂
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Post by citynickscfc on Sept 22, 2018 15:31:15 GMT
Hopefully this will be the end of Rowett. He really is a waste of space. Lets get someone in to try and salvage the play-offs. Agreed. Season will be over in a couple of weeks I assume. We are routed to the bottom 6. Terrible terrible tactics, almost non existent in fact. Doesn't have the players with him at all. Terrible team spirit. We are going backwards.
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Post by george2again on Sept 22, 2018 15:57:59 GMT
Just for once the board of Stoke City need to make a decisive decision and remove this excuse ridden tosser from our club. They got it wrong , have to admit it and move on ASAP.
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Post by nonameface on Sept 22, 2018 16:01:24 GMT
Dreadful individual mistakes, need to get rid of Shawcross, Allen and buttons ASAP and replace with real players like woods, not just names.
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Post by citynickscfc on Sept 22, 2018 16:05:44 GMT
Just for once the board of Stoke City need to make a decisive decision and remove this excuse ridden tosser from our club. They got it wrong , have to admit it and move on ASAP. 😂 They just won't... Admit anything that is
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