|
Post by hudsontojenkins on Sept 19, 2018 14:19:46 GMT
The first 60 mins or so were pretty dreadful, although we did have two really good changes... just goes to show how poor both sides were. On the plus side:
- much improved once Diouf went off. I do not know why he being picked - he can't control the ball, can't score, can't pass. I doubt if he can even chew gum and fart at the same time. - Ryan Woods looks a real find, thought he had an excellent game and freed up Allen and Etebo. And Saido looked like a great partner for Afobe when he came on.
Real hope for the future IF Rowlett lets the midfield settle down and doesn't pick Diouf.
|
|
|
Post by thestatusquo on Sept 19, 2018 14:20:09 GMT
The win was more important than the performance. When isn't it? I guess it all depends on the game and who you are playing. In a game you are unlikely to win I think it’s important to give a good account of yourselves but in this instance we just needed to win it didn’t really matter how
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Sept 19, 2018 14:35:21 GMT
The first 60 mins or so were pretty dreadful, although we did have two really good changes... just goes to show how poor both sides were. On the plus side: - much improved once Diouf went off. I do not know why he being picked - he can't control the ball, can't score, can't pass. I doubt if he can even chew gum and fart at the same time. - Ryan Woods looks a real find, thought he had an excellent game and freed up Allen and Etebo. And Saido looked like a great partner for Afobe when he came on. Real hope for the future IF Rowlett lets the midfield settle down and doesn't pick Diouf. I think there are obvious options that aren't Diouf or McClean. While the latter is injured, we shouldn't immediately turn to Diouf. He's just not good enough.
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Sept 19, 2018 14:44:42 GMT
I recorded the match and watched later. What a waste of time!
|
|
|
Post by pottersrule on Sept 19, 2018 15:08:15 GMT
Home games are going to be tough at times with most visiting teams likely to see a point as a good result. We found a way to win the game after a tricky opening half hour. That is a huge step in the right direction. As a result it was great - as an indicator that we will hit and maintain the required standards soon I’m not so sure but here’s hoping. A fit Mclean and Clucas will hopefully help the cause.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 19, 2018 15:49:05 GMT
I was almost blinded by the wind. Is that nearly the same?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 16:27:50 GMT
A win and a clean sheet is always good. Thought play is slowly improving but what I don't understand is when shawcross plays a long ball up front he gets criticized by the fans if it doesn't come off but if we pass it around at the back waiting for the chance to play forward whilst keeping possession the crowd get restless. Think we need to decide what we want either long hopefull balls which 50% won't come off or waiting for the right opportunity to pass forward. The crowds restless last night wasn't helpful. It shouldn't be either. Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business. The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions. Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more.
|
|
|
Post by jontimmis on Sept 19, 2018 17:16:28 GMT
Let’s enjoy the win. We all know that last night wasn’t perfect. results breed confidence. With a touch of that last night, we should get behind them from the off Saturday and turn over a resilient Blackburn side who’ve already drawn 5 games I believe. So that’s the test ahead it could be similar, put our chances away and we should be fine and then all being well, we start to look upwards with two consecutive wins for the first time in godknows how long...
If you spin it on it’s head for second it’s not a surprise Brentford, Leeds and West Brom are near the top, we’ve played all three and started poor, the seeds may have started to show some green shoots, if you saw the game last sat against Wednesday we were very good indeed, so if we play like that away from home as we have more space as the home team is the ascendant team. Then es please!!!
I’m more optimistic than I was before the international break and I think we should all start getting behind it a bit.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 19, 2018 18:32:56 GMT
It’s totally down to confidence that’s why it’s such hard work at the moment. We’re playing with the handbreak on. A couple of 1-0 wins and we’ll start firing
|
|
|
Post by Godo on Sept 19, 2018 18:53:30 GMT
I think some people on here are almost disappointed we won. Yes we struggled first half but with Woods anchoring the midfield we actually demonstrated proper game management as the match progressed. As for Rowett's motivational skills, has Afobe ever put in a shift like that for any club? And what a piece of football leading up to Ince's miss in the 2nd half. Yes I know Pieters and Ryan are still suspect but a win against Blackburn on Saturday and for the first time in over 12 months we could start to generate some forward momentum......and the "fans" were much more embarrassing than the team. Moaning and even booing when we retained possession!!! Fuckers don't deserve to watch players like Woods, Etebo and Ince if all you want is to hoof it up front!!
|
|
|
Post by george2again on Sept 19, 2018 19:35:44 GMT
As the origanl poster I stand by what I watched last night. We really need to add some speed to the passing and urgency to our play. That slow laboured approach does nothing for the team, crowd or atmosphere. The worse culprits were Ryan and BMI, From the off on Saturday we need to be at them and high press, the quality of some of our players should then get the result.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 19, 2018 19:45:43 GMT
A win and a clean sheet is always good. Thought play is slowly improving but what I don't understand is when shawcross plays a long ball up front he gets criticized by the fans if it doesn't come off but if we pass it around at the back waiting for the chance to play forward whilst keeping possession the crowd get restless. Think we need to decide what we want either long hopefull balls which 50% won't come off or waiting for the right opportunity to pass forward. The crowds restless last night wasn't helpful. It shouldn't be either. Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business. The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions. Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more. Last night: If you could have got a message to the midfield and forwards to create space and “move” it would have helped the defenders. Ince (in the 1st half half right in front of us) continually ran toward the fullback rather than create space, then he’d go on walkabouts into the middle closing any available space down restricting the midfield players to make runs
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 19, 2018 19:46:38 GMT
As the origanl poster I stand by what I watched last night. We really need to add some speed to the passing and urgency to our play. That slow laboured approach does nothing for the team, crowd or atmosphere. The worse culprits were Ryan and BMI, From the off on Saturday we need to be at them and high press, the quality of some of our players should then get the result. See last post. They need movement in front of them
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 19, 2018 19:51:43 GMT
A win and a clean sheet is always good. Thought play is slowly improving but what I don't understand is when shawcross plays a long ball up front he gets criticized by the fans if it doesn't come off but if we pass it around at the back waiting for the chance to play forward whilst keeping possession the crowd get restless. Think we need to decide what we want either long hopefull balls which 50% won't come off or waiting for the right opportunity to pass forward. The crowds restless last night wasn't helpful. It shouldn't be either. Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business.The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions. Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more. That's lovely in theory but if there isn't a midfielder coming short for the ball, which there wasn't in the first half, then they don't have much choice. I don't know whether Woods changed it or Rowett told him to change it but it was noticeable that towards the end of the first and in the second half, when we had our best periods, he was dropping in collecting the ball off the centre backs and dictating play. It was also noticeable that our best periods coincided with us playing a high pressing game putting them under pressure forcing them to kick long and make mistakes. When we sat back, like the 10 minutes after the goal, we looked just as brittle as ever. The difference last night was we picked it up again instead of just receding into our shell.
|
|
|
Post by eriksson74 on Sept 19, 2018 20:01:32 GMT
To be honest, I didn't think we started that bad, we moved the ball around and tried to get Afobe in down the side like we did at Wednesday. Yes we were a little slow but Swansea had 5 narrow in the middle of the park where Woods wants to operate, and we couldn't always go through him.
They defended well, the fans got anxious and from twenty on Swans had a spell when they sensed an opportinity and it all went a bit flat, not helped with lack 9f width and suppprt from Diouf. We needed to be patient against a side who have good defensive shape and went on to create 2 best chances of the half.
We see it through, get the win, clean sheet and finish the game well with saido bringing a bit of nous and footballing brain to play that one touch high press o expect we will see more of. Not a thriller but far from awful.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Sept 19, 2018 20:24:36 GMT
A lot of the Champs will be a swamp fight settled by a moment of composure/quality/inspiration or luck.
Which is why its hugely disappointing to only have 2 players in the squad who are capable of creating and scoring the number we need over a season to get in amongst the PO places (i.e. combination of 15 goals or assists) - Ince and Afobe.
Personally, am envious of WBA who have 4 who can do that - Philiips, Gayle, Barnes, Rodriguez
Or Villa with 5 - Kodja, Abraham, Bolasie, Hourihane and Grealish - and 6 if they get Adomah back
They may play crap 1/2 the time, but having these players will settle more of the games that otherwise pretty even battles; more than they play others off the park by dominating the midfield.
|
|
|
Post by linfitstokie on Sept 19, 2018 21:00:55 GMT
1st half was drab we played well 2nd half
|
|
|
Post by miggoscfc on Sept 19, 2018 21:03:45 GMT
As the origanl poster I stand by what I watched last night. We really need to add some speed to the passing and urgency to our play. That slow laboured approach does nothing for the team, crowd or atmosphere. The worse culprits were Ryan and BMI, From the off on Saturday we need to be at them and high press, the quality of some of our players should then get the result. So you didnt watch the last 20 mins then ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 21:11:17 GMT
It shouldn't be either. Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business. The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions. Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more. Last night: If you could have got a message to the midfield and forwards to create space and “move” it would have helped the defenders. Ince (in the 1st half half right in front of us) continually ran toward the fullback rather than create space, then he’d go on walkabouts into the middle closing any available space down restricting the midfield players to make runs That's what I'm saying; there's very little movement among our midfielders and forwards, and the defenders don't know what to do with the ball.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 21:22:13 GMT
It shouldn't be either. Shawcross should distribute the ball quickly but to one of the midfielders who will then (hopefully) take care of business.The passing the ball around in defence between Ryan and whoever is his partner always makes me cringe, because Ryan has absolutely no idea why he is doing it. It's just an alibi that MH gave him as he tried to change us from Pulisball. It should give midfielders and forwards a chance to take up attacking positions and move into empty pockets. But as there's very little movement in those areas, all that passing the ball sideways and back does little for us. By and by Ryan was allowed to use longer balls after all, but 95% of the time it gets us nowhere but quick returns to defensive positions. Just once every 2 or 3 years Ryan surprises everybody, ourselves and the opponents, by running forwards with the ball at his feet, and he's actually much better doing that. I'd really like to see him do that more. That's lovely in theory but if there isn't a midfielder coming short for the ball, which there wasn't in the first half, then they don't have much choice. I don't know whether Woods changed it or Rowett told him to change it but it was noticeable that towards the end of the first and in the second half, when we had our best periods, he was dropping in collecting the ball off the centre backs and dictating play. It was also noticeable that our best periods coincided with us playing a high pressing game putting them under pressure forcing them to kick long and make mistakes. When we sat back, like the 10 minutes after the goal, we looked just as brittle as ever. The difference last night was we picked it up again instead of just receding into our shell. By saying "hopefully" I was well aware that it doesn't always happen. In fact it hasn't happened often enough for quite a while. In Hughes' first year he had Nzonzi, and to some extent also Whelan, who connected very well with the defenders and could do things from deep. We never replaced Nzonzi nor did we Whelan (I have hopes Woods will). So the options for Shawcross (and partners) are limited, and since his ability and willingness to do something constructive with the ball appear equally limiting, what we have instead is what the op described.
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Sept 20, 2018 0:17:23 GMT
That's lovely in theory but if there isn't a midfielder coming short for the ball, which there wasn't in the first half, then they don't have much choice. I don't know whether Woods changed it or Rowett told him to change it but it was noticeable that towards the end of the first and in the second half, when we had our best periods, he was dropping in collecting the ball off the centre backs and dictating play. It was also noticeable that our best periods coincided with us playing a high pressing game putting them under pressure forcing them to kick long and make mistakes. When we sat back, like the 10 minutes after the goal, we looked just as brittle as ever. The difference last night was we picked it up again instead of just receding into our shell. By saying "hopefully" I was well aware that it doesn't always happen. In fact it hasn't happened often enough for quite a while. In Hughes' first year he had Nzonzi, and to some extent also Whelan, who connected very well with the defenders and could do things from deep. We never replaced Nzonzi nor did we Whelan (I have hopes Woods will). So the options for Shawcross (and partners) are limited, and since his ability and willingness to do something constructive with the ball appear equally limiting, what we have instead is what the op described. Ryan is a colossus of a central defender, with his tight ball control in awkward situations combining with his virtual awareness and positioning he has that classic stamp of “Libro” bestowed on the greats of Italian football. But as we have witnessed countless times Ryan has that rare gift only given to the greatest, he has time on the ball ! This allows Ryan to pinpoint a rapier like pass to a teammate or to stride gracefully out of his defensive shackles and launch a spellbinding counter offensive deep into the opponents box.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 0:51:06 GMT
By saying "hopefully" I was well aware that it doesn't always happen. In fact it hasn't happened often enough for quite a while. In Hughes' first year he had Nzonzi, and to some extent also Whelan, who connected very well with the defenders and could do things from deep. We never replaced Nzonzi nor did we Whelan (I have hopes Woods will). So the options for Shawcross (and partners) are limited, and since his ability and willingness to do something constructive with the ball appear equally limiting, what we have instead is what the op described. Ryan is a colossus of a central defender, with his tight ball control in awkward situations combining with his virtual awareness and positioning he has that classic stamp of “Libro” bestowed on the greats of Italian football. But as we have witnessed countless times Ryan has that rare gift only given to the greatest, he has time on the ball ! This allows Ryan to pinpoint a rapier like pass to a teammate or to stride gracefully out of his defensive shackles and launch a spellbinding counter offensive deep into the opponents box. That reads like something you'd put on the blurp of his biography! In reality the reason why he has time on the ball is because no opponent expects him to something with the ball other than launching it long forwards aimed at nobody in particular least of all a team mate...
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Sept 20, 2018 1:17:12 GMT
Ryan is a colossus of a central defender, with his tight ball control in awkward situations combining with his virtual awareness and positioning he has that classic stamp of “Libro” bestowed on the greats of Italian football. But as we have witnessed countless times Ryan has that rare gift only given to the greatest, he has time on the ball ! This allows Ryan to pinpoint a rapier like pass to a teammate or to stride gracefully out of his defensive shackles and launch a spellbinding counter offensive deep into the opponents box. That reads like something you'd put on the blurp of his biography! In reality the reason why he has time on the ball is because no opponent expects him to something with the ball other than launching it long forwards aimed at nobody in particular least of all a team mate... I beg to differ, Ryan doesn’t Launch it forward ! By outwitting his opponents with the unexpected this gives him the time and space to develop the play and with his range and accuracy of passing he can strike fear into any defensive. And as for aiming at nobody in particular or least of all his team mates it’s not Ryan’s fault that his colleagues are not on the same wavelength to receive those laser guided through balls, with professionals of the same ilk as Ryan then you would truly appreciate his sublime talent.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 2:06:40 GMT
It's good for Ryan that he has at least one fan who still believes he's the greatest thing since Tony Pulis played for B'mouth...
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Sept 20, 2018 5:58:43 GMT
I think some people on here are almost disappointed we won. I know some people are disappointed.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 20, 2018 8:14:28 GMT
That's lovely in theory but if there isn't a midfielder coming short for the ball, which there wasn't in the first half, then they don't have much choice. I don't know whether Woods changed it or Rowett told him to change it but it was noticeable that towards the end of the first and in the second half, when we had our best periods, he was dropping in collecting the ball off the centre backs and dictating play. It was also noticeable that our best periods coincided with us playing a high pressing game putting them under pressure forcing them to kick long and make mistakes. When we sat back, like the 10 minutes after the goal, we looked just as brittle as ever. The difference last night was we picked it up again instead of just receding into our shell. By saying "hopefully" I was well aware that it doesn't always happen. In fact it hasn't happened often enough for quite a while. In Hughes' first year he had Nzonzi, and to some extent also Whelan, who connected very well with the defenders and could do things from deep. We never replaced Nzonzi nor did we Whelan (I have hopes Woods will). So the options for Shawcross (and partners) are limited, and since his ability and willingness to do something constructive with the ball appear equally limiting, what we have instead is what the op described. But that was my point. In the post I quoted you were quite clearly laying the blame for our 'slow play' at the door of Ryan Shawcross. When I pointed out that for parts of the game (and for most of the last 2 years) he hasn't really had much choice you then virtually agreed with me and changed tack aiming your scattergun elsewhere, although you still couldn't resist a snidey dig at Shawcross in your last paragragh. And, I happen to think the OP IS wrong. We weren't brilliant and at times we were bad and just as brittle as w'eve been for some time. But there were parts where we played quite well. We played some decent football and created some good chances. Allen, Etebo, Woods, Martina, Shawcross and Berahino when he came on all had good games. We stuck at it and overcame our bad patches to generally finish the stronger. And when, for spells in the game, we actually started to play a high pressing game we actually looked like a team I wanted to watch and one that would excite me. The goal and the win were very lucky I am under no illusion about that so I'm not blinded by it at all. There is still a lot of work to do but for a lot of us that was an encouraging performance and to call it mostly awful is as far as I'm concerned, simply inaccurate. PS I forgot Afobe who had a blinder apart from missing a sitter.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 8:33:13 GMT
It's good for Ryan that he has at least one fan who still believes he's the greatest thing since Tony Pulis played for B'mouth... I think Ryan has learnt over the years to completely ignore so called supporters, that only see things in black and white, and usually vent their spleen after a gallon of stella. I've no doubt whatsoever he concentrates on the job the manager has handed him. He's a very good professional and I'd imagine he's working hard to iron out the bad habits of the Hughes era Time and patients is needed for players and manager (And I'm not a great fan of the manager)
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Sept 20, 2018 8:38:32 GMT
It's good for Ryan that he has at least one fan who still believes he's the greatest thing since Tony Pulis played for B'mouth... So you must be one of those fans that I have been informed about ? One of the tiniest minority’s that still carries a grudge against Ryan because Tony Pulis purchased him from Man Utd ? I just don’t understand the logic that you base your opinion on ? Fletcher served Man Utd with great honour and distinction and yet the fans rave about his contribution to the cause and I bet you lead the praise ! We should cherish the thought that we have Ryan superbly marshalling the team,it’s like watching a grandmaster positioning the pieces on a chessboard also one thing that I would think all would agree on is Ryan’s legendary goals from distance he certainly makes that ball do the most extraordinary things.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 20, 2018 8:52:00 GMT
It's good for Ryan that he has at least one fan who still believes he's the greatest thing since Tony Pulis played for B'mouth... So you must be one of those fans that I have been informed about ? One of the tiniest minority’s that still carries a grudge against Ryan because Tony Pulis purchased him from Man Utd ? I just don’t understand the logic that you base your opinion on ? Fletcher served Man Utd with great honour and distinction and yet the fans rave about his contribution to the cause and I bet you lead the praise ! We should cherish the thought that we have Ryan superbly marshalling the team,it’s like watching a grandmaster positioning the pieces on a chessboard also one thing that I would think all would agree on is Ryan’s legendary goals from distance he certainly makes that ball do the most extraordinary things. Very good fishing mate but I'd give up if I were you. This ones Ironyometer appears broken today.
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Sept 20, 2018 9:08:18 GMT
So you must be one of those fans that I have been informed about ? One of the tiniest minority’s that still carries a grudge against Ryan because Tony Pulis purchased him from Man Utd ? I just don’t understand the logic that you base your opinion on ? Fletcher served Man Utd with great honour and distinction and yet the fans rave about his contribution to the cause and I bet you lead the praise ! We should cherish the thought that we have Ryan superbly marshalling the team,it’s like watching a grandmaster positioning the pieces on a chessboard also one thing that I would think all would agree on is Ryan’s legendary goals from distance he certainly makes that ball do the most extraordinary things. Very good fishing mate but I'd give up if I were you. This ones Ironyometer appears broken today. And I was just building it up to the grand finale, it involved Jesus telling the fisherman to cast their nets over the opposite side of the boat 🚣♀️, but pardon the pun there’s a lot more fish in this sea 🌊
|
|