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Post by longthrowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 18:58:41 GMT
Assuming we don't bring anybody in on loan in the next few days, what needs changing to improve?
-Afobe looks isolated, I personally think Berahino/ Campbell should be starting alongside him, with Bojan behind.
-McClean doesn't look like a winger. Would Sorensen do a worse job on the wing?
-Bauer is a liability. Chases the ball frantically like a labrador, but also has the touch of one. Start Edwards ahead of him.
-Shawcross, love the bloke but he's dead. Ashley Williams looked a lot better, maybe Williams and BMI together?
----Afobe -Berahino
Sorensen-Bojan-Ince
---------CDM--------
Pieters-Williams-BMI-Edwards
-------Butland-------
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 11, 2018 19:16:06 GMT
I think we have to stick with the 4-2-3-1 system we used today. As bad as we were, we looked (marginally) better than we did against Leeds. Based on what we've got on the books and assuming everyone's fit, this is what I'd go with:
Butland- obviously.
Bauer- Defensive flaws have been really highlighted these last two games. Don't think he's done enough to warrant being dropped yet, but I'd consider moving him to RM or RW if he doesn't improve.
Pieters- Only because there's no one else
Williams- Showed his experience today. Hoping he can have the same impact that Taggart did a few years back- old head who can organise.
BMI- Not looked great in either game but is quick enough to cover for Williams.
Cameron- Jesus, is he still here? Probably our best option as a sitter in the two, but good lord, we need an upgrade here.
Allen- Just about keeps the shirt as 'the energetic one' in the defensive two. Etebo or N'Diaye to come in soon if Allen's performances continue to be as rancid as they have been so far.
Choupo-Moting- Got a bit of quality about him, which is what we need in that front four.
Bojan- Needs an extended run and the team building around him.
Ince- Started quite well and clearly has a bit of talent.
Afobe- Done well considering he's had fuck all service so far.
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 11, 2018 19:20:31 GMT
The coaching staff have to work on the defensive formation.
I think most on here pre season were saying that a back 5 of Butland, Bauer, Ryan, Bruno and Pieters was better than many Premier league sides.
They haven't all of a sudden become shit all at the same time.
A defensive midfielder is an absolute must because Brentford and Leeds both caused massive problems all game in front of our back 4.
Neither Allen or Fletcher are the answer and I'm not so sure Clucas will be. What's happened to Cameron, is he one of the players out of Rowett's plans? It's a sad state of affairs but he probably the best at the club for a pure DMF player.
I'm hoping that when Clucas becomes fit he replaces McClean so my favoured starting XI (which changes weekly!!) with the players at the club is:
Butland
Bauer
Ryan
Bruno (Williams depending on the Bruno injury)
Pieters
Ince
Cameron
Etebo
Clucas
Bojan
Afobe
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Post by scfcno1fan on Aug 11, 2018 19:26:10 GMT
I think we have to stick with the 4-2-3-1 system we used today. As bad as we were, we looked (marginally) better than we did against Leeds. Based on what we've got on the books and assuming everyone's fit, this is what I'd go with: Butland- obviously. Bauer- Defensive flaws have been really highlighted these last two games. Don't think he's done enough to warrant being dropped yet, but I'd consider moving him to RM or RW if he doesn't improve. Pieters- Only because there's no one else Williams- Showed his experience today. Hoping he can have the same impact that Taggart did a few years back- old head who can organise. BMI- Not looked great in either game but is quick enough to cover for Williams. Cameron- Jesus, is he still here? Probably our best option as a sitter in the two, but good lord, we need an upgrade here. Allen- Just about keeps the shirt as 'the energetic one' in the defensive two. Etebo or N'Diaye to come in soon if Allen's performances continue to be as rancid as they have been so far. Choupo-Moting- Got a bit of quality about him, which is what we need in that front four. Bojan- Needs an extended run and the team building around him. Ince- Started quite well and clearly has a bit of talent. Afobe- Done well considering he's had fuck all service so far. [/quote Agreed, but would drop Allen. |
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Post by upthefud on Aug 11, 2018 22:04:28 GMT
We need to up the intensity
We need to get players out
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 11, 2018 22:11:34 GMT
Assuming we don't bring anybody in on loan in the next few days, what needs changing to improve? -Afobe looks isolated, I personally think Berahino/ Campbell should be starting alongside him, with Bojan behind. -McClean doesn't look like a winger. Would Sorensen do a worse job on the wing? -Bauer is a liability. Chases the ball frantically like a labrador, but also has the touch of one. Start Edwards ahead of him. -Shawcross, love the bloke but he's dead. Ashley Williams looked a lot better, maybe Williams and BMI together? ----Afobe -Berahino Sorensen-Bojan-Ince ---------CDM-------- Pieters-Williams-BMI-Edwards -------Butland------- You’re asking one bloke to man the midfield on his own. That’s basically what Fletcher had to do today. Bad idea. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 22:21:32 GMT
It's a pyramid for me and the first block is the Captain.
I'm not going to apologise for calling for a new one after the last two seasons and the way we have started it has to be done. We need to drop him like a hot brick and I don't really care how many rose tints get upset. Facts have to be faced.
Butland is fine, he's just panicing with the lousy defence in front of him (solid from him today)
Pieters, what the f**k he's doing I don't know.Playing like he wants out and we have no experienced cover what so ever. This is where we need our defencive loan for me. We are shorter than my d**k on a frost night in this position and that is saying something.
Rowett and EVERY member of this board knows we need a holding midfield Fltchers legs have gone to the US without him it seems meanwhile Allen is runnning around like a kid playing dodge ball. I would have brought a player to be Captain to go here but it's too late now so it has to be an older pro who can hold the ball and PASS ( you remeber pass it's what other teams do)
Finally attack, it's not that we don't have one it's just that they don't seem to be playing on the same pitch as the rest of the team. Two goals from Afobe is as much as anyone dared hope for so not to be gready or living in a dream world I'm just looking for an alternative here, someone to replace Peter and be a younger option with an aerial and physical threat as physicality seems to be a bit lacking at the moment up front.
We can't wind the clock back now, we have to go with the players we have and with luck one strengthener in defence, midfield and attack and boy we are desperate for them.
I'm sick of moaning and desperate for us to start playing well, but you have to call it like it is and hiding behind the past and things that were done by players and owners alike will not get us out of the malaise we are in.
I really wish I was eulogizing over our team winning two games in a row under our fantastic new manager like those tossers from Leeds are doing and I have thought of quitting posting as I can't find much good to post about but running away from the truth has never been my game, I just hope the manager and board are the same and dig deep to get us out of the hole we are in.
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Post by liamo on Aug 11, 2018 22:27:02 GMT
A proper midfield that can both support Bojan/Arobe and protect the back 4
The gaps in the middle of *insert any game in previous 2 years* are there for everyone to see
Stop buying strikers, stop buying box to box players and buy a player whose only purpose on the pitch is to get at the opposition and break up their game, we've made Whelan look impossible to replace, HOW?
Twice in 2 games we've lost the midfield battle, we won't improve until we win it
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Post by thehoof on Aug 11, 2018 22:29:52 GMT
I think we have to stick with the 4-2-3-1 system we used today. As bad as we were, we looked (marginally) better than we did against Leeds. Based on what we've got on the books and assuming everyone's fit, this is what I'd go with: Butland- obviously. Bauer- Defensive flaws have been really highlighted these last two games. Don't think he's done enough to warrant being dropped yet, but I'd consider moving him to RM or RW if he doesn't improve. Pieters- Only because there's no one else Williams- Showed his experience today. Hoping he can have the same impact that Taggart did a few years back- old head who can organise. BMI- Not looked great in either game but is quick enough to cover for Williams. Cameron- Jesus, is he still here? Probably our best option as a sitter in the two, but good lord, we need an upgrade here. Allen- Just about keeps the shirt as 'the energetic one' in the defensive two. Etebo or N'Diaye to come in soon if Allen's performances continue to be as rancid as they have been so far. Choupo-Moting- Got a bit of quality about him, which is what we need in that front four. Bojan- Needs an extended run and the team building around him. Ince- Started quite well and clearly has a bit of talent. Afobe- Done well considering he's had fuck all service so far. [/quote Agreed, but would drop Allen. In what world can BMI be described as quick? He is poor and has been for most of his time at Stoke. Give Souter a chance if Shawcross is finished but BMI- no way! |
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Post by robstokie on Aug 11, 2018 22:31:06 GMT
I would go 4-2-3-1
Butland
Edwards
BMI - if fit, if not Ryan
Williams
Bauer - move him to left back, might actually be more effective with a winger who does at least track back.
GCam - until Clucas is fit - he will sit deep
Etebo - suits the box-to-box role best out of what we have got
Ince - with instruction to at least keep tabs on his full back behind the ball
Bojan - he needs game time to find his best form, it took him 3 months of playing regularly in his first season to get him firing - part of the problem since his injury was him being pushed in and out of the side.
McClean
Afobe
Federici
Ryan - Souttar if BMI ain't got
Pieters - who else do we have?
Allen
Sorensen
Campbell
Crouch
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Post by cheadlepotter on Aug 11, 2018 22:32:11 GMT
———————Butland———————
——— Williams Shawcross Indi———
Bauer——— Allen Etebo———Pieters
———Ince———————Bojan———
———————Afobe————————
Subs: Federici, Cameron, Edwards, N’Diaye, Mclean, Choupo, Crouch
Admittedly I’ve just thrown that together. We’re quite overloaded at CM at the moment but I’d really like us to loan a proper DM and a LWB. I quite like the wing back system when done properly. We’re in trouble though with Fletcher, Adam, Imbula, Berahino, Diouf, Affelay not making the bench but taking up plenty of wage budget, and we’d need to find a place for Clucas too.
3 CBS also worries me with our lack of depth there but like I said it’s thrown together.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 11, 2018 22:32:26 GMT
Assuming we don't bring anybody in on loan in the next few days, what needs changing to improve? -Afobe looks isolated, I personally think Berahino/ Campbell should be starting alongside him, with Bojan behind. -McClean doesn't look like a winger. Would Sorensen do a worse job on the wing? -Bauer is a liability. Chases the ball frantically like a labrador, but also has the touch of one. Start Edwards ahead of him. -Shawcross, love the bloke but he's dead. Ashley Williams looked a lot better, maybe Williams and BMI together? ----Afobe -Berahino Sorensen-Bojan-Ince ---------CDM-------- Pieters-Williams-BMI-Edwards -------Butland------- I don't think we have good enough players to improve us. GR can tinker all he likes but unless we bring quality in we wont get any better. At the back with Indi out we will have to persevere with William who did OK and Ryan was really poor. In the middle again it 2 from Etebo, Allen and Fletcher. Though I think Clucas will make a big difference when he comes in. Bojan should keep his place. Eric shouldn't but we have no options. Out wide we only have 2 realistic options so they pick themselves. Up front Afobe has been OK. I think 4231 is still our best option when everyones fit I'd go ...................Butland................... Bauer......Williams.........Indi.........Eric .............Clucas.......Etebo.............. ......Ince..........Bojan.........McClean.... ....................Afobe.................... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 22:45:47 GMT
Assuming we don't bring anybody in on loan in the next few days, what needs changing to improve? -Afobe looks isolated, I personally think Berahino/ Campbell should be starting alongside him, with Bojan behind. -McClean doesn't look like a winger. Would Sorensen do a worse job on the wing? -Bauer is a liability. Chases the ball frantically like a labrador, but also has the touch of one. Start Edwards ahead of him. -Shawcross, love the bloke but he's dead. Ashley Williams looked a lot better, maybe Williams and BMI together? ----Afobe -Berahino Sorensen-Bojan-Ince ---------CDM-------- Pieters-Williams-BMI-Edwards -------Butland------- I don't think we have good enough players to improve us. GR can tinker all he likes but unless we bring quality in we wont get any better. At the back with Indi out we will have to persevere with William who did OK and Ryan was really poor. In the middle again it 2 from Etebo, Allen and Fletcher. Though I think Clucas will make a big difference when he comes in. Bojan should keep his place. Eric shouldn't but we have no options. Out wide we only have 2 realistic options so they pick themselves. Up front Afobe has been OK. I think 4231 is still our best option when everyones fit I'd go ...................Butland................... Bauer......Williams.........Indi.........Eric .............Clucas.......Etebo.............. ......Ince..........Bojan.........McClean.... ....................Afobe.................... Do you think he has the balls to drop Allen and Shawcross? It's exactly what I'd play with what we have except for Eric who is only the best option when he feels like it at left back. He's as guilty as anyone so far and doesn't deserve to start. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 11, 2018 22:54:29 GMT
Well the team that started was pretty much what I wanted and we all saw how that went, so round 2  : ...................Butland................... Bauer......Williams.........Shawcross.........Eric .............Cameron.......Etebo.............. ......Ince..........Bojan.........McClean.... ....................Afobe.................... Bojan would need to improve though, he was tidy enough but needs to shoot and unless I'm mistaken didn't create much either. I know Cameron can't do much but he can get about the pitch, we need someone with legs thats pretty clear and as it stand he's all we have right now that does, until Clucas is fit thats what I'd do given what we've seen so far. Re the Sorro question, yes he could do a lot worse, he's not a winger, or even a wide midfielder. All in all its pretty clear we need a few in. |
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 11, 2018 22:57:21 GMT
Are we really assuming no more loans??? Gawd....
Cos we need 1x wide forward, and 1x CF and ideally 1xCDM and possibly 1xCB now. I'm still hoping on these
Top choices (appreciating they are v. long shots but not, hopefully, too insane)
WAF: Calvert-Lewin, Snodgrass, Ojo, Markovic, Sako (free agent)
CF: Wells, Ulloa, Murray, Wickham, Kamara (Ful)
CDM: Amartey, Grujic, McTominay, Cleverley (or play Sorenson)
CB: Carter Vickers, Pennington, Mings, Rice, Bauer (Charlton loan to buy)
Best possible outcome
SYSTEM 1 (4-1-4-1)
Butland
Bauer - Williams - BMI - Pieters
Amartey
Etobo - Clucas
Ince Snodgrass/C-Lewin/Ojo
Afobe
SYSTEM 2 (4-2-3-1)
Butland
Bauer - Williams - BMI - Pieters
Clucas Amartey
Ince Bojan Snodgrass/C-Lewin/Ojo
Afobe
SYSTEM 3 (5-3-2)
Butland
C-Vickers Williams BMI
Bauer Maclean
Etobo Amartey Clucas
Bojan/Wells Afobe
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Post by imho on Aug 11, 2018 23:01:21 GMT
The problem lies with a side so unbalanced that it really doesn't suit any one system, coupled with the fact that confidence has to be low after relegation.
Confidence comes when you don't loose/concede. So the coaching staff need to really work on team shape and who Covers who (back to basics as often seen in the TP days).
The main problems as I see it is no one Covers the fullbacks when they go forward (esp Bauer) - that's mainly due to the fact there's only 2 in the middle of the pitch and neither is a holding midfielder (it should go Bauer goes forward, Allen covers him, Bojan Covers Allen but it doesn't happen and even if it did having Bojan anywhere bar up top is a waste)
Additionally Ince and McC stay to wide which allows the central 2 in midfield to become overrun - which became a problem when ethers/pennant played (one has to move more central).
Finally the gap between the front man and his support is too much - mainly due to Bojan (in todays case) getting dragged back into midfield instead of one of the wide men.
With the current players more support needs to be given in midfield to allow them to cover the FBs and also not to get overrun themselves. A 4321 that can be turned into a 4312 without too much messing about when required
Butland
Bauer Shaw BMI Pieters
Allen Fletcher Etebo
Ince McC
Afobe
Or Ince
Afobe Bojan (or diouf etc)
With Williams as an option for CB
Geoff as CM, and any combination of front '3' in either set up.
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Post by musik on Aug 11, 2018 23:03:02 GMT
---------- Butland ----------
Edwards-Loan-Williams-Clucas
Ince ----- Loan ---- Sörensen
----------- Bojan -----------
------ Afobe -- Loan --------
Drastic changes, I know.
Max allowed 5 loans in a game. Think I got it right?
A new CB, CM, FW on loan.
Plus Afobe and Williams on loan?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 23:07:18 GMT
Butland
Bauer Williams Bruno Clucas
Etebo. Sorensen
Ince. Bojan. Mcclean
Afobe
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 11, 2018 23:11:39 GMT
No matter what system or line up the left side options just ruin every choice.
Pieters, not replacing will go down as one of our failures
McClean, our long chase to sign as hamstrung our summer window
Choupo, embarrassing he wears the no. 10 nothing changed in that regard.
There's plenty we failed to fix after last season but the left side is a real thorn along with resigning of Allan
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 11, 2018 23:25:10 GMT
Is Pieters so bad that some want Clucas to start as left back simply because he's left footed?
When Clucas is fit he has to replace McClean.
We need a proper left back on loan, I'm sure our esteemed transfer team can find a half decent one somewhere on planet earth?
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Post by right on Aug 12, 2018 3:14:00 GMT
I'm tired of hearing Choupo and Imbula don't play hard. Well as manager it's your job to incorporate players. Rowett, these two players have shown they have real Premier League quality at times. They have much higher ceilings than McClean and Fletcher. I don't care if Fletcher and McClean are currently working harder. Do your job and get the most out of the players were have. This could even be said for Berahino but honestly he might be a lost cause. Imbula and Choupo-Moting belong in our starting XI and we need both a manager and captain that can motivate them to play hard. If they do we up our class on the pitch by a lot.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 12, 2018 4:48:56 GMT
Still makes me laugh when people say BMI is quick, definitely seeing someone else than I am, the blokes never broke out into a full sprint in all the time he's been here either. Williams has to start ahead of him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 4:57:04 GMT
Butland
Edwards, Shawcross, Indi, Bauer
Cameron Etebo
Ince, Bojan, N’Goy / Saido
Afobe
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 12, 2018 6:35:41 GMT
In what world can BMI be described as quick? He is poor and has been for most of his time at Stoke. Give Souter a chance if Shawcross is finished but BMI- no way! There's a difference between 'quick' and 'quick enough to cover'. BMI isn't fast but he's got more mobility than either of the other two CBs. |
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Post by karl on Aug 12, 2018 6:47:07 GMT
Assuming we don't bring anybody in on loan in the next few days, what needs changing to improve? -Afobe looks isolated, I personally think Berahino/ Campbell should be starting alongside him, with Bojan behind. -McClean doesn't look like a winger. Would Sorensen do a worse job on the wing? -Bauer is a liability. Chases the ball frantically like a labrador, but also has the touch of one. Start Edwards ahead of him. -Shawcross, love the bloke but he's dead. Ashley Williams looked a lot better, maybe Williams and BMI together? ----Afobe -Berahino Sorensen-Bojan-Ince ---------CDM-------- Pieters-Williams-BMI-Edwards -------Butland------- I don't think we have good enough players to improve us. GR can tinker all he likes but unless we bring quality in we wont get any better. At the back with Indi out we will have to persevere with William who did OK and Ryan was really poor. In the middle again it 2 from Etebo, Allen and Fletcher. Though I think Clucas will make a big difference when he comes in. Bojan should keep his place. Eric shouldn't but we have no options. Out wide we only have 2 realistic options so they pick themselves. Up front Afobe has been OK. I think 4231 is still our best option when everyones fit I'd go ...................Butland................... Bauer......Williams.........Indi.........Eric .............Clucas.......Etebo.............. ......Ince..........Bojan.........McClean.... ....................Afobe.................... I think we will be playing Cameron and Williams at CB next game as I think Shawcross took a knock and the game will come to soon for BMI |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 12, 2018 6:47:13 GMT
All these formations show no James Mclean in them. You really think TPLC' will drop his golden workhorse?????
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 12, 2018 6:48:23 GMT
Doesn't matter what set up we go with,too many of our starting 11 are just not good enough.
It maybe too late now,but no more than 3 of our players who got us relegated should be in the 1st.11.
If we don't bring in the players needed before the loan window closes,we could be fighting against another relegation.
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Post by chuckrocky on Aug 12, 2018 7:09:08 GMT
Is Pieters so bad that some want Clucas to start as left back simply because he's left footed? When Clucas is fit he has to replace McClean. We need a proper left back on loan, I'm sure our esteemed transfer team can find a half decent one somewhere on planet earth? Why do you want a central midfielder to play in the wing? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 12, 2018 7:09:13 GMT
I really don’t think we have a solution in the squad already.
I mean I’d play Choupo every day over McClean but that ain’t going to happen.
So it leaves you with Diouf, Verlinden or Ngoy. And I’d be happy with any of them there. They’ll all offer more.
But it’s not very Rowett. So I think Tymon as a left winger could be worth a shot. He should work hard but also be able to trap a football.
The midfield needs transfers to sort it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 12, 2018 7:09:44 GMT
Is Pieters so bad that some want Clucas to start as left back simply because he's left footed? When Clucas is fit he has to replace McClean. We need a proper left back on loan, I'm sure our esteemed transfer team can find a half decent one somewhere on planet earth? Why do you want a central midfielder to play in the wing? Clucas has played as a left winger loads of times. |
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