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Post by hooftastic on Jul 26, 2018 21:14:13 GMT
We are miles off a promotion squad as things stand , unbalanced , and strong 💪 n parts but chronically lacking in others , midfield creativity , midfield holder , goals , centre back cover , left back cover , as things stand we do well to make top half I actually agree completely with where you feel our squad lacks, however even without all of that playoffs at minimum with our squad and manager. +1 We seem to have made signings we needed in the last window. We also seem very short in the wide areas and missing cover in midfield and defence. The much promised overhaul just hasn't appeared and whilst in the past an evolution rather than revolution approach was to be commended, in this instance we needed the revolution and it hasn't happened. I know a lot of this is not being able to shift the deadwood but I genuinely thought we'd pay a few off. Notably those with no resale value like Fletcher, Adam and Afellay as a minimum. Like others I think we'll be in/around playoffs. Not sure if that's good enough and for how long well keep sustained spending if we don't go up at the first go. That and that we've simply rewarded failure, repeatedly, even despite the tough talk in the close season.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 26, 2018 21:46:10 GMT
Yes, what's happened in this window feels like steps in the right direction, but without the urgency and volume of change needed.
From 5 May - ideally - we would have been looking to sell/loan/pay off - Adam, Affelay, Imbula, Beharinho**, Shaq, N'Diaye*, Fletcher, Diouf, Wimmer - and for me, controversially I guess, Butland too on the grounds that 25m reinvested in a decent 6-10m goalkeeper (like Sam Johnstone) and 2 good other Champs players would be more valuable than him alone. (*N'Diaye on the assumption he's not going to be happy and 15m-20m or so from him would be reinvested too. ** If there was a path to redemption for SB, it would have been proving he could do it at Shrewsbury, Walsall or Notts Co for a year - build in a recall clause for Jan). That should have raised over 60m and created 10 squad places.
Then we should have been far more aggressive with getting 3-4 loan players, including Wilson, Barnes... (Ojo, Woodburn, Ings, etc) - allowing us to spend whatever of the 60m we could on new players -
With Afobe and Etobo we started well and signalled intent, but it went a bit dead.
We are where we are... it seemed that it took Rowett threatening to kick up a public stink before we moved into the higher gears. It could also have been a damned sight worse, looking at Hulls and Sunderlands!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 26, 2018 21:52:19 GMT
A little explanation. My Dad was a huge Chelsea fan. (It nearly killed him when we won the league cup!) When he died, I tried to "support" Chelsea as my PL team (remember Stoke were in the 38th division at the time). About 2 months after I learned their player names and what position they played, Abramovich took over. At first it was great ... Millions and Millions to buy whoever they wanted. After about a week and a half, I was bored stiff. I said a quiet "sorry, but No Way!" to my Dad and went back to the exciting normality of acquiring superstars like John Halls. So you see, I really would not trade Stoke's squad for Chelsea's, simply because then Stoke would not be Stoke! Not really anything to do with what we were discussing but thanks for the explanation. You reckon Leicester had a better squad than Man Citeh when they won the league then? Cool.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Jul 26, 2018 22:23:12 GMT
Yes.
As it stands we have an England international goalkeeper, a back 4 which wouldn't look out of place in the Premier League, a midfield 3 who wouldn't look out of place in the Premier League, a winger and a striker who both have very good records at Championship level.
You could argue about a lack of depth but that applies to any team in the league.
Having absolutely no confidence is what riddles our squad and fanbase at the minute. To change that is the responsibility of our new manager and the players he has.
We're the favourites to win the league for a reason and it's time to put our money where our mouth is. Over to you Gary Rowett.
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Post by takeshikovacs on Jul 26, 2018 22:27:37 GMT
On paper maybe, but on grass that counts and if GR an't get them functioning as a cohesive unit, we'll be closer to relegation than promotion.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 26, 2018 23:47:55 GMT
I don’t think any club have better. However, Mboro clearly have the best manager by a clear margin and consequently our squad has to be better than theirs to overcome this gap. This is my thinking. They have a good group of players but that's then emphasized by the quality in terms of manager getting that extra 20% out of them. You really are a complete fucking idiot.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 26, 2018 23:53:01 GMT
You can have the best squad in the league and still finish way down the table. Absolutely. I think the squad is somewhere near but I'm not convinced Rowett is good enough to get the squad firing. My guess is we'll do exactly whar he did with Derby last year. He's a nearly manager.
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 0:01:40 GMT
This is my thinking. They have a good group of players but that's then emphasized by the quality in terms of manager getting that extra 20% out of them. You really are a complete fucking idiot. Were you taught any manners?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 27, 2018 0:02:34 GMT
You really are a complete fucking idiot.  Were you taught any manners? Yes but only to people deserving of them.
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 0:03:30 GMT
Were you taught any manners? Yes but only to people deserving of them. Pulis deserves a lot more than manners my friend, have some respect
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Post by qweasd on Jul 27, 2018 0:05:00 GMT
I don’t think any club have better. However, Mboro clearly have the best manager by a clear margin and consequently our squad has to be better than theirs to overcome this gap. I agree that our management might be less predictable or stable than some other teams. Also, we'll need to see how this group function in the Championship with new players and management. Can they make up for the negative momentum of last season? Also, while it's a solid squad it still doesn't quite come across as a Premier League team. Some of the other Championship teams are already used to high-place finishes and challenging for promotion. To catch up with them, the team will have to come together quickly. There is very little in it when it comes to squads, correct. Some other teams might have more stand-out players as of now, but that's not decisive.
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 0:07:32 GMT
I don’t think any club have better. However, Mboro clearly have the best manager by a clear margin and consequently our squad has to be better than theirs to overcome this gap. I agree that our management might be less predictable or stable than some other teams. Also, we'll need to see how this group function in the Championship with new players and management. Can they make up for the negative momentum of last season? Also, while it's a solid squad it still doesn't quite come across as a Premier League team. Some of the other Championship teams are already used to high-place finishes and challenging for promotion. To catch up with them, the team will have to come together quickly. There is very little in it when it comes to squads, correct. Some other teams might have more stand-out players as of now, but that's not decisive. Which is why although liking rowett, he normally takes time in building the squad up and may take a few years to gel, if you want it first time round, you need your Pulis', Warnocks, Allardyces.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 27, 2018 0:10:49 GMT
Yes but only to people deserving of them. Pulis deserves a lot more than manners my friend, have some respect He was a decent manager for us at the right time. Football has moved on now. I'm grateful for what he did for us but as a person I think he is a total shit house of a bloke.
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Post by wilcopotter on Jul 27, 2018 6:01:52 GMT
Get what you’re saying lads, but I really can’t see whose squad is really any better in the division. I'm agreeing with both of you, our squad is way better then Benji thinks it is, but he is right about the areas we could improve. The current Swansea thread is exactly the reason for my optimism. Both teams that came down with us are currently weaker. The teams up from league 1 don’t seem to offer much. All the other teams in the division from last season don’t seem to be any stronger. Forest, Leeds and Boro seem to be the only ones who will be around us imo. We have a good manager and good players in contrast to the other teams in the division. Hence, I’m optimistic.
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Post by senojbor on Jul 27, 2018 6:54:56 GMT
We have the best team, squad, finances of ANY team in this division. That's why we're favourites with the bookies. Unless there's a monumental fcuk up of biblical proportions, we'll piss it.
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Post by Pricey on Jul 27, 2018 6:57:49 GMT
I agree that our management might be less predictable or stable than some other teams. Also, we'll need to see how this group function in the Championship with new players and management. Can they make up for the negative momentum of last season? Also, while it's a solid squad it still doesn't quite come across as a Premier League team. Some of the other Championship teams are already used to high-place finishes and challenging for promotion. To catch up with them, the team will have to come together quickly. There is very little in it when it comes to squads, correct. Some other teams might have more stand-out players as of now, but that's not decisive. Which is why although liking rowett, he normally takes time in building the squad up and may take a few years to gel, if you want it first time round, you need your Pulis', Warnocks, Allardyces. Can you give me a detailed breakdown of every time Tony Pulis has got a team promoted from the Championship in his first season at a club?
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 7:11:19 GMT
Which is why although liking rowett, he normally takes time in building the squad up and may take a few years to gel, if you want it first time round, you need your Pulis', Warnocks, Allardyces. Can you give me a detailed breakdown of every time Tony Pulis has got a team promoted from the Championship in his first season at a club? if you don't have the resources or the backing at certain clubs any manager would struggle. You give pulis what we have here and we would piss this league
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 7:17:02 GMT
We should create enough chances from midfield so I'm not so worried about that, the defence is one of if not the best in the league as long as we can keep hold of Jack. However I'm worried we haven't yet got that 15+ goalscorer we'll need for automatic promotion. Can't see Afobe doing it and it would be an absolute miracle for berahino to pull it of.
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Post by Pricey on Jul 27, 2018 7:20:15 GMT
Can you give me a detailed breakdown of every time Tony Pulis has got a team promoted from the Championship in his first season at a club? if you don't have the resources or the backing at certain clubs any manager would struggle. You give pulis what we have here and we would piss this league That's entirely hypothetical though isn't it? Like me hypothetically saying you're so obsessed with Tony Pulis you should support whoever he manages rather than Stoke City. Have you ever seen the episode of I'm Alan Partridge with Jed the super fan? If not, please watch it. That's you, giving tea to people in washing powder holders and long-lensing TP as he potters about his garden.
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 7:30:01 GMT
if you don't have the resources or the backing at certain clubs any manager would struggle. You give pulis what we have here and we would piss this league That's entirely hypothetical though isn't it? Like me hypothetically saying you're so obsessed with Tony Pulis you should support whoever he manages rather than Stoke City. Have you ever seen the episode of I'm Alan Partridge with Jed the super fan? If not, please watch it. That's you, giving tea to people in washing powder holders and long-lensing TP as he potters about his garden. He does more wok for charity than any other footballer I know. Great personality, great manager and great leader. He's made us the club we are today.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 27, 2018 7:40:13 GMT
That's entirely hypothetical though isn't it? Like me hypothetically saying you're so obsessed with Tony Pulis you should support whoever he manages rather than Stoke City. Have you ever seen the episode of I'm Alan Partridge with Jed the super fan? If not, please watch it. That's you, giving tea to people in washing powder holders and long-lensing TP as he potters about his garden. He does more wok for charity than any other footballer I know. Great personality, great manager and great leader. He's made us the club we are today. I will never cease to be grateful for his work in getting us promoted and into the cup final and his charity work is great but great personality and leader you must be having a laugh. This is the man who has been divisive at every club he's been at and whose evidence was deemed unreliable in court by the judge!
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 7:43:21 GMT
He does more wok for charity than any other footballer I know. Great personality, great manager and great leader. He's made us the club we are today. This is the man who has been divisive at every club he's been at and whose evidence was deemed unreliable in court by the judge! What do you think of mcclean then?
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Post by Veritas on Jul 27, 2018 7:48:24 GMT
 This is the man who has been divisive at every club he's been at and whose evidence was deemed unreliable in court by the judge! What do you think of mcclean then? I haven't got a problem with him but accept he is an issue for some therefore is divisive, not sure what that has got to do with TP?
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Post by Pricey on Jul 27, 2018 7:50:00 GMT
 This is the man who has been divisive at every club he's been at and whose evidence was deemed unreliable in court by the judge! What do you think of mcclean then? You do know Pulis signed McClean for West Brom don't you? The same McClean you have rated as a 1/10 signing, presumably based almost entirely on prejudice? Are you saying Pulis showed poor judgement, not only signing McClean but also giving him a contract extension?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 27, 2018 8:20:27 GMT
Can you give me a detailed breakdown of every time Tony Pulis has got a team promoted from the Championship in his first season at a club? if you don't have the resources or the backing at certain clubs any manager would struggle. You give pulis what we have here and we would piss this league Boro are 100% nailed on to go up then yeah? No excuses?
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Post by stokecitytalke on Jul 27, 2018 8:46:18 GMT
People say we need another goal scorer, but I think with the defence we have we will keep a lot of clean sheets or not concede many so we won't have to score loads.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 27, 2018 9:20:00 GMT
People say we need another goal scorer, but I think with the defence we have we will keep a lot of clean sheets or not concede many so we won't have to score loads. Would be nice though wouldn’t it? As paying supporters like...
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Post by stokecitytalke on Jul 27, 2018 9:22:08 GMT
People say we need another goal scorer, but I think with the defence we have we will keep a lot of clean sheets or not concede many so we won't have to score loads. Would be nice though wouldn’t it? As paying supporters like... Yes, it would be nice! I would like us to do a Keegan's Newcastle and win every game 4-3!
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Post by lordb on Jul 27, 2018 9:28:15 GMT
We should create enough chances from midfield so I'm not so worried about that, the defence is one of if not the best in the league as long as we can keep hold of Jack. However I'm worried we haven't yet got that 15+ goalscorer we'll need for automatic promotion. Can't see Afobe doing it and it would be an absolute miracle for berahino to pull it of. Afobe scored 20+ last time in this league
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Post by thegift on Jul 27, 2018 10:54:08 GMT
What do you think of mcclean then? You do know Pulis signed McClean for West Brom don't you? The same McClean you have rated as a 1/10 signing, presumably based almost entirely on prejudice? Are you saying Pulis showed poor judgement, not only signing McClean but also giving him a contract extension? Wasn't actually Pulis who wanted him, even though they signed him.
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