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Post by Batfink on Jul 8, 2018 15:17:00 GMT
Will someone pls give us a few names of strikers who have previously gone 2 seasons without scoring, shown an abject attitude, and been turned around into a decent player again? (For any team, in any league. going back 10-20 years ... in fact, ever....) (Otherwise i'm prone to believe that any hope that SB is turned into anything other than compost is a delusion seldom previously seen amonst football fans from any club... in any league... ever...) Sheron and Stein were pretty shit before they signed for us. 😉
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2018 15:28:08 GMT
Will someone pls give us a few names of strikers who have previously gone 2 seasons without scoring, shown an abject attitude, and been turned around into a decent player again? (For any team, in any league. going back 10-20 years ... in fact, ever....) (Otherwise i'm prone to believe that any hope that SB is turned into anything other than compost is a delusion seldom previously seen amonst football fans from any club... in any league... ever...) Simon Sturridge. Carl Sanders went over a year then scored tons at Bristol Rovers. Tony Cascarino was a laughing stock then scored so many in France he was known as Tony Goal. It does happen. Not saying it will happen with Berahino though.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 8, 2018 15:30:11 GMT
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Post by cmc89 on Jul 8, 2018 15:32:01 GMT
Maybe playing a few of the newly promoted teams in the championship will give him the time on the ball he needs to score one or two. Hoping entirely it's a confidence thing which has gone sour because he's reacted so badly to not scoring.
Give him 6 months then cut loose if nothing changes.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 8, 2018 15:32:02 GMT
Will someone pls give us a few names of strikers who have previously gone 2 seasons without scoring, shown an abject attitude, and been turned around into a decent player again? (For any team, in any league. going back 10-20 years ... in fact, ever....) (Otherwise i'm prone to believe that any hope that SB is turned into anything other than compost is a delusion seldom previously seen amonst football fans from any club... in any league... ever...) Simon Sturridge. Carl Sanders went over a year then scored tons at Bristol Rovers. Tony Cascarino was a laughing stock then scored so many in France he was known as Tony Goal. It does happen. Not saying it will happen with Berahino though. Fair dos!.... a few in there... there is indeed a water drop of hope in tundra regions of SB's life. But in the modern game???? (Thinking Bony here)
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 8, 2018 15:34:37 GMT
It's a big risk to take, isn't it? Based off Charlie's words at the end of last season, Saido and a few others had literally no interest what so ever and were getting away with murder. Do we try and loan him out to ANYBODY? Do we take a risk knowing there's a chance he could ruin the harmony and ethos the staff are trying to create? Is he just going to be cast out to train alone after 3 months? Too many what ifs for me, but I don't think there is anybody else willing to give the lad a chance, so we're stuck with him aren't we? Third times a charm
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Post by theresonly1hudson on Jul 8, 2018 15:40:07 GMT
stein struggled to get into oxford staring line up for a season come to stoke on loan and didn't score we then signed him and we know how things turned out lets hope sb can do the same with the right coaching weve got nothing 2 lose but lots 2 gain if it does
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Post by mickmacc on Jul 8, 2018 15:45:53 GMT
What everyone seems to be ignoring is that aside from the worst attitude anyone has ever seen at the club is that he has no attributes- at all.
He is actually slow, he hides from the ball during games, his control is awful allied to the fact he’s totally unfit.
He’s a write off. Kevin Phillips, Pep Guardiola no one can save this sack of shite.
He is quite rightly universally loathed
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Post by theresonly1hudson on Jul 8, 2018 15:50:07 GMT
you might be right you could be wrong wont be long b4 we all find out and this thread can disappear I cant wait 4 that
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 15:50:27 GMT
Is he planning a brain transplant?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jul 8, 2018 15:51:04 GMT
i think it sums up the shit rag Sun just as nicely.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 8, 2018 15:53:16 GMT
stein struggled to get into oxford staring line up for a season come to stoke on loan and didn't score we then signed him and we know how things turned out lets hope sb can do the same with the right coaching weve got nothing 2 lose but lots 2 gain if it does Yes, a couple of good posts previously which got the nostalgia flowing, and your's, reminding us of very noble efforts by strikers to turn things around. But, in terms of coming back from the dead, i'd say these were more cases between the equivalent of "feeling very ill" through to "seeing the light at the end of the tunnel" With SB, its more a case of having spent a year 6 foot under decomposing, with his obituary long have been archived to a dusty vault and his mum asking "Saido... that name rings a bell"... when asked. Other thing is - these players mentioned turned things round when the physical side of the game was not so completely unforgiving. (Subequently, though, we should perhaps reduce the odds of an SB turnaround from 100,000-1 to 5000-1 given the club are trying to put some effort in and they seem a decent group. I just hope they are planning for SB to be a bonus if they can pull off a miracle of all miracles - rather than banking on him in their plans. A film which is a cross between "Sully" and "Rocky" should be made if they did manage it.)
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 8, 2018 15:55:35 GMT
Maybe playing a few of the newly promoted teams in the championship will give him the time on the ball he needs to score one or two. Hoping entirely it's a confidence thing which has gone sour because he's reacted so badly to not scoring. Give him 6 months then cut loose if nothing changes. Unbelievable that Mark and his team chased him for 18 months as our answer to the lack of goals we were scoring, we all know how that panned out it wouldn't be so bad if he even tried to get fit and abide by club rules he doesn't give a flying fuck about Stoke City never has.
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Post by march4 on Jul 8, 2018 16:00:24 GMT
Philips will have his work cut out spending time with realistic strikers for next season and not wasting his time on someone who is unlikely to play a part.
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 8, 2018 16:11:46 GMT
Philips will have his work cut out spending time with realistic strikers for next season and not wasting his time on someone who is unlikely to play a part. Is he still our highest paid player ?
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Post by andystokey on Jul 8, 2018 17:48:39 GMT
Will someone pls give us a few names of strikers who have previously gone 2 seasons without scoring, shown an abject attitude, and been turned around into a decent player again? (For any team, in any league. going back 10-20 years ... in fact, ever....) (Otherwise i'm prone to believe that any hope that SB is turned into anything other than compost is a delusion seldom previously seen amonst football fans from any club... in any league... ever...) Sheron and Stein were pretty shit before they signed for us. 😉 Listen to Macari talk about Stein and he'll tell you that for 2 seasons he was being asked to play for the team and do a lot of other work. Being a good bloke he did as he was told. Macari told him to be more selfish and shoot everytime he got in the box. The rest is history.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 8, 2018 18:04:22 GMT
I'm not sure the original and existing problems were coaching related were they? I'm an interested and intrigued onlooker. I don't think he's handled particularly well though has he? Lambert was just awful and completely bottled it with players like him. Hughes handled him strangely I thought. He came back last season looking fit to me and he wasn't really given a chance. And when he signed he was pretty much thrown straight in despite being massively unfit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 18:08:52 GMT
I'm not sure the original and existing problems were coaching related were they? I'm an interested and intrigued onlooker. I don't think he's handled particularly well though has he? Lambert was just awful and completely bottled it with players like him. Hughes handled him strangely I thought. He came back last season looking fit to me and he wasn't really given a chance. And when he signed he was pretty much thrown straight in despite being massively unfit. I agree bayern to be fair, to a point. He got himself mega fit last summer, was given minimal time in a side that wasn't creating at the time and then was bombed out for being no worse than anyone else. I get that totally and could imagine what it would do to your mindset. I can't agree or accept that causing an issue with manager B some 5 months later, to the point where he is turning up late for training. There has to be accountability with the player to some degree. I'm certainly not writing him off one bit and hope beyond hope that Rowett/Phillips can work a bit of magic with him, but i'm certainly not holding my breath and am certainly an interested onlooker with it. It will be interesting to see how it pans out because football chemistry stuff like that interests me greatly.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 8, 2018 18:23:46 GMT
Hope we get another striker in and ditch Be a Rhino after his antics last year.
He is a disgrace, end of.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 8, 2018 18:29:25 GMT
Sheron and Stein were pretty shit before they signed for us. 😉 Listen to Macari talk about Stein and he'll tell you that for 2 seasons he was being asked to play for the team and do a lot of other work. Being a good bloke he did as he was told. Macari told him to be more selfish and shoot everytime he got in the box. The rest is history. Well his record at SCFC it could (or appear to) suggest he took the definition of “selfish” to another level
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 8, 2018 18:32:05 GMT
I don't think he's handled particularly well though has he? Lambert was just awful and completely bottled it with players like him. Hughes handled him strangely I thought. He came back last season looking fit to me and he wasn't really given a chance. And when he signed he was pretty much thrown straight in despite being massively unfit. I agree bayern to be fair, to a point. He got himself mega fit last summer, was given minimal time in a side that wasn't creating at the time and then was bombed out for being no worse than anyone else. I get that totally and could imagine what it would do to your mindset. I can't agree or accept that causing an issue with manager B some 5 months later, to the point where he is turning up late for training. There has to be accountability with the player to some degree. I'm certainly not writing him off one bit and hope beyond hope that Rowett/Phillips can work a bit of magic with him, but i'm certainly not holding my breath and am certainly an interested onlooker with it. It will be interesting to see how it pans out because football chemistry stuff like that interests me greatly. In a two year period he fucked two football clubs and three experienced (former players) and managers whilst earning a massive amount of monies I think he needs another chance
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blade
Spectator
Posts: 30
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Post by blade on Jul 8, 2018 19:54:42 GMT
You get tired of hearing about Berahino. He must have talent and be able to score goals but his record date is dreadful.
If he does pick up £70k a week as reported will he too be affected by the same pay cut as Jack Butland and others in the squad? If Berahino's pay is cut by 50% for example will he be knocking on the bosses door asking for a transfer?
Best thing would be to loan him out but Stoke could still end up with the Wimmer and Giannelli Imbula situation or will they too get a pay cut if still on loan next season??
With the highly inflated transfer fees and wages feeding into the Championship wannabe clubs th.e whole model of umbrella payments etc may become unsustainable.
Another season in the second tier could turn most clubs into disasters like Sunderland.
Get rid of Berahino and Imbula altogether and wipe the slate clean.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 8, 2018 20:27:33 GMT
I don't think he's handled particularly well though has he? Lambert was just awful and completely bottled it with players like him. Hughes handled him strangely I thought. He came back last season looking fit to me and he wasn't really given a chance. And when he signed he was pretty much thrown straight in despite being massively unfit. I agree bayern to be fair, to a point. He got himself mega fit last summer, was given minimal time in a side that wasn't creating at the time and then was bombed out for being no worse than anyone else. I get that totally and could imagine what it would do to your mindset. I can't agree or accept that causing an issue with manager B some 5 months later, to the point where he is turning up late for training. There has to be accountability with the player to some degree. I'm certainly not writing him off one bit and hope beyond hope that Rowett/Phillips can work a bit of magic with him, but i'm certainly not holding my breath and am certainly an interested onlooker with it. It will be interesting to see how it pans out because football chemistry stuff like that interests me greatly. Of course there has but I think Lambert was way out of his depth and just used him, Berahino and Wimmer as lambs to the slaughter to take the heat off him. He's clearly a massive tit but one who can be a good footballer. Does he want it? As you say it will be interesting to see what happens. I have no hopes for him tbh but I don't think anyone should.
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2018 20:35:39 GMT
I agree bayern to be fair, to a point. He got himself mega fit last summer, was given minimal time in a side that wasn't creating at the time and then was bombed out for being no worse than anyone else. I get that totally and could imagine what it would do to your mindset. I can't agree or accept that causing an issue with manager B some 5 months later, to the point where he is turning up late for training. There has to be accountability with the player to some degree. I'm certainly not writing him off one bit and hope beyond hope that Rowett/Phillips can work a bit of magic with him, but i'm certainly not holding my breath and am certainly an interested onlooker with it. It will be interesting to see how it pans out because football chemistry stuff like that interests me greatly. Of course there has but I think Lambert was way out of his depth and just used him, Berahino and Wimmer as lambs to the slaughter to take the heat off him. He's clearly a massive tit but one who can be a good footballer. Does he want it? As you say it will be interesting to see what happens. I have no hopes for him tbh but I don't think anyone should. Don't agree, Lambert came in saw the toxic piss taking attitude of players and tried to lay down the law. He also tried to sort the defensive shambles out. Sadly he had no idea how to get anything going at the other end of the pitch Anyway Saido may well have had a huge paycut but he will know if Stoke get promoted he will get his full pay again. Because of that he won't accept a transfer out of the club (loans aside). We are stuck with him. I think Rowett will give him a chance pre season but if he gets the second striker he wants in at the the very best Berahino will he on the bench. I can't see anyone with any nous taking him on loan. It would have to be someone naive and arrogant. Rangers it is then?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 8, 2018 20:38:35 GMT
Of course there has but I think Lambert was way out of his depth and just used him, Berahino and Wimmer as lambs to the slaughter to take the heat off him. He's clearly a massive tit but one who can be a good footballer. Does he want it? As you say it will be interesting to see what happens. I have no hopes for him tbh but I don't think anyone should. Don't agree, Lambert came in saw the toxic piss taking attitude of players and tried to lay down the law. He also tried to sort the defensive shambles out. Sadly he had no idea how to get anything going at the other end of the pitch Anyway Saido may well have had a huge paycut but he will know if Stoke get promoted he will get his full pay again. Because of that he won't accept a transfer out of the club (loans aside). We are stuck with him. I think Rowett will give him a chance pre season but if he gets the second striker he wants in at the the very best Berahino will he on the bench. I can't see anyone with any nous taking him on loan. It would have to be someone naive and arrogant. Rangers it is then? There's ways and means and he cut his nose off to spite his face and made the same mistakes he made at Villa with a bomb squad. There's no way Afellay, Berahino and Wimmer should have been treated the way they were.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 8, 2018 20:54:59 GMT
Don't agree, Lambert came in saw the toxic piss taking attitude of players and tried to lay down the law. He also tried to sort the defensive shambles out. Sadly he had no idea how to get anything going at the other end of the pitch Anyway Saido may well have had a huge paycut but he will know if Stoke get promoted he will get his full pay again. Because of that he won't accept a transfer out of the club (loans aside). We are stuck with him. I think Rowett will give him a chance pre season but if he gets the second striker he wants in at the the very best Berahino will he on the bench. I can't see anyone with any nous taking him on loan. It would have to be someone naive and arrogant. Rangers it is then? There's ways and means and he cut his nose off to spite his face and made the same mistakes he made at Villa with a bomb squad. There's no way Afellay, Berahino and Wimmer should have been treated the way they were. With Afellay we can only rely on media reports, How should Wimmer and Berahino have been treated, in particular Berahino?
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Post by malteser68 on Jul 8, 2018 21:43:34 GMT
I hope he can, but the issues with Saido have never been his technical ability. It’s all about his motivation and attitude. Only person who can can truly turn those issues around is Saido himself. So leys go for Glenn Hoddle’s faith healer, shall we?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 8, 2018 22:04:20 GMT
There's ways and means and he cut his nose off to spite his face and made the same mistakes he made at Villa with a bomb squad. There's no way Afellay, Berahino and Wimmer should have been treated the way they were. With Afellay we can only rely on media reports, How should Wimmer and Berahino have been treated, in particular Berahino? We can and the reports and subsequent non sacking/contract ripping up suggest Lambert is a mardarse imo. Berahino should have been given a chance. Wimmer was told from the get go he wasn't going to be used. What kind of management is that? The bloke looked a stone or two lighter when he signed for Hannover and reports are he worked hard to lose that weight. Yes he shouldn't have been in that state but he made that right. To say you've got no chance whatever is just awful management and sends an awful message to everyone in that squad. It's weak leadership.
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 9, 2018 16:47:11 GMT
Only time will tell We can only go by the managers judgement As long as it is his judgement and not been pushed by his superiors Imbula, Bojan, Berahino. At their best each one would be a rock the city type signing. Whether it's the manager or his superiors (who have far more invested in seeing Stoke succeed), giving each of them the opportunity to turn things around and fight for a spot in the preferred line-up is an absolute no-brainer. I do think we will be extremely fortunate if even 1 of them comes good. If it was my choice, I'd wish that Imbula delivers his potential.
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 9, 2018 16:52:19 GMT
It's a big risk to take, isn't it? Based off Charlie's words at the end of last season, Saido and a few others had literally no interest what so ever and were getting away with murder. Do we try and loan him out to ANYBODY? Do we take a risk knowing there's a chance he could ruin the harmony and ethos the staff are trying to create? Is he just going to be cast out to train alone after 3 months? Too many what ifs for me, but I don't think there is anybody else willing to give the lad a chance, so we're stuck with him aren't we? Third times a charm Is it really a big risk? If he comes good, everyone wins. If he doesn't, Manager wins by showing the team he is willing to give everyone a chance, Stoke lose nothing, Ethos of team improved by showing what happens to "troublemakers". I truly think that the new manager/backroom team will have the attitude and involvement required to support our misfits yet shut them down quickly if they are not willing to tow the party line.
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