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Post by AlliG on Jul 12, 2018 9:38:37 GMT
Presumably Liverpool have offered less than the release clause and we are negotiating loan fee for Wilson Why would Liverpool offer less than an official release clause? Because they have been reading Benji's views on the way our club is run?
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Post by burystokie on Jul 12, 2018 9:43:07 GMT
Assuming Liverpool are prepared to meet the release clause, it hardly matters what Stoke want though, we cease to be a factor. I guess there could be a bit of leverage in insisting on 100% of the money up front rather than in installments, but aside from that (and I'm sure Liverpool can find £13m straightway if they need to), we're not exactly in a position to dictate terms to anyone. Presumably Liverpool have offered less than the release clause and we are negotiating loan fee for Wilson Absolutely, I'm sure that is the case - otherwise we'd be expecting Liverpool to meet the release clause AND loan us a player for free. In that context, I'm sure there's scope for some negotiation re the amount of reduction they get on the Shaq fee and who we get on loan but we're still in no position to play hardball with them. At any time, Liverpool can simply say "sod this", hand over the full fee in cash and there's not a single thing we could do about it. That's not to say I don't think they will loan Wilson to us. It looks like a sensible move to me (unless they'd be concerned about how much game time he'd get, or really want him to play in the Premier League this season). He'd be surrounded by players with Premier League and international experience, will hopefully get confidence from being involved in a team that wins a fair bit more than it loses (touch wood!), and probably be involved in critical, high pressure games at the end of the season. I think it's a move that makes sense for all parties, and the fact the Shaqiri move is going on as well does no harm either. I just think we're kidding ourselves if we think we're negotiating from any sort of position of strength.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 12, 2018 17:04:15 GMT
How can we play hardball over the Shaq deal Cilla? Surely if he’s got a release clause and Liverpool meet it, that’s the end of it? Hardball in the fact that we want a player on loan and the player we want is Wilson, we have been offered another player but we want Wilson and they know that. The release clause should never have come out apparently but by all accounts his brother leaked it to the press. As I posted on the Shaq thread (Including a lawyers link) the £13m will only be part of the whole clause. I'm sure his agent/brother decided not to leak any non favourable details of the clause just the headline break amount. In fact even the act of leaking it to the press probably breaks the NDA. If the clause is structured as a "good faith" clause (legalese) we do have some wriggle room. Payment conditions, release constraints will not simply be over £13m it's not legally enforceable. Neither of the three parties will want to go to the CAS to arbitrate. I'd bet a pound to a penny the final amount will be declared undisclosed. The non disclosure suits all parties.
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 12, 2018 22:24:25 GMT
No mention of the loan as part of shaq deal from Percy. Will it be agreed as part but announced sometime later to avoid the potential financial penalties
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 13, 2018 1:38:07 GMT
I saw him a few times when he was on loan at Crewe a couple of years ago, he really didn't impress but it was his first loan.
Since he's had a loan at Hull and done well, he's also had couple of cameos for Wales where he's looked decent.
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Post by nonameface on Jul 13, 2018 4:01:03 GMT
No mention of the loan as part of shaq deal from Percy. Will it be agreed as part but announced sometime later to avoid the potential financial penalties Didn't realise there could be penalties for that? How does that work then?
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 13, 2018 6:18:24 GMT
No mention of the loan as part of shaq deal from Percy. Will it be agreed as part but announced sometime later to avoid the potential financial penalties Didn't realise there could be penalties for that? How does that work then? Twas in sentinel the other night something about how it affects the actual price of shaq clause. They should just knock any penalty amount off what they still owe us for tapping one of ours up last season.
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 13, 2018 6:19:02 GMT
I saw him a few times when he was on loan at Crewe a couple of years ago, he really didn't impress but it was his first loan. Since he's had a loan at Hull and done well, he's also had couple of cameos for Wales where he's looked decent. Is he a winger
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 13, 2018 7:42:49 GMT
Didn't realise there could be penalties for that? How does that work then? Twas in sentinel the other night something about how it affects the actual price of shaq clause. They should just knock any penalty amount off what they still owe us for tapping one of ours up last season. What player did they tap up last season?
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Post by Mendicant on Jul 13, 2018 7:56:10 GMT
Presumably Liverpool have offered less than the release clause and we are negotiating loan fee for Wilson Why would Liverpool offer less than an official release clause? Because they can throw in a set of 18" Subaru alloys, a PlayStation and 10 New Era baseball caps with the silver stickers still on.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 13, 2018 8:04:12 GMT
I saw him a few times when he was on loan at Crewe a couple of years ago, he really didn't impress but it was his first loan. Since he's had a loan at Hull and done well, he's also had couple of cameos for Wales where he's looked decent. Is he a winger Can play in a few positions winger, up top, no 10
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jul 13, 2018 8:05:57 GMT
Why would Liverpool offer less than an official release clause? Because they can throw in a set of 18" Subaru alloys, a PlayStation and 10 New Era baseball caps with the silver stickers still on. They're probably ours in the first place.
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Post by Northy on Jul 13, 2018 8:09:07 GMT
Twas in sentinel the other night something about how it affects the actual price of shaq clause. They should just knock any penalty amount off what they still owe us for tapping one of ours up last season. What player did they tap up last season? The youth player, who they then discarded as Stoke were paying his education, new FA rules state if you do it for one player you do it for all, of which the holier than thou bin dippers refused to do leaving the lad in limbo as he couldn't sign for anybody else. Bin dippers got some sort of transfer embargo on signing youth players.
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Post by CillaBlacksPissFlaps on Jul 13, 2018 10:52:31 GMT
Looks like it could possibly be Ojo instead of Wilson, shame if so as Wilson is definitely the better of the two.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 13, 2018 11:08:23 GMT
Looks like it could possibly be Ojo instead of Wilson, shame if so as Wilson is definitely the better of the two. Wonder where Wilson is going?
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2018 11:09:15 GMT
Looks like it could possibly be Ojo instead of Wilson, shame if so as Wilson is definitely the better of the two. Just a loan or with a view to a permanent deal?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 13, 2018 11:13:37 GMT
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaqiri-having-medical-ahead-of-13m-liverpool-move-mmdnx396vStoke, who are preparing to return to the Premier League at the first attempt, have been hoping to secure Liverpool’s Wales winger Harry Wilson on loan, but are facing competition from their fellow relegated side Swansea City and Frank Lampard’s Derby County. Wilson, 21, signed a new five-year contract this week and is highly-regarded, but Liverpool believe his development will be best served with a season in the Sky Bet Championship.
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Post by lordb on Jul 13, 2018 11:14:13 GMT
Looks like it could possibly be Ojo instead of Wilson, shame if so as Wilson is definitely the better of the two. shame however Ojo plays on the left (I think) so he would get more game time than Wilson (assuming Ritchie signs)
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 13, 2018 11:17:45 GMT
Got to assume Wilson would get more game time at Derby or Swansea, so that'll likely mean we lose out if we're still planning on bringing in McClean and Ritchie as the senior options?
He seems more than good enough to be the main man for someone at our level, and that must be what Liverpool are after
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Post by CillaBlacksPissFlaps on Jul 13, 2018 11:21:04 GMT
Ojo looks the more likely I have just been told but Wilson IS our first choice from there.
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Post by lordb on Jul 13, 2018 11:22:19 GMT
Ojo looks the more likely I have just been told but Wilson IS our first choice from there. get them both in.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 13, 2018 11:22:45 GMT
Jack Harrison is obviously going to go somewhere on loan as he's got as much of a chance of playing for Man City as me.
Little bit odd we're not after him after being prepared to pay £11m for him 4 months ago.
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Post by baystokie on Jul 13, 2018 11:29:16 GMT
Jack Harrison is obviously going to go somewhere on loan as he's got as much of a chance of playing for Man City as me. Little bit odd we're not after him after being prepared to pay £11m for him 4 months ago. GR wasn't the manager 4 months ago?
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Post by Pirate on Jul 13, 2018 11:29:35 GMT
I dont think it would be terrible to get Ojo instead, he is quicker ( if only slightly ) but more importantly wouldn't we have a better chance of adding him long term if he proves worth it?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 13, 2018 11:33:41 GMT
Jack Harrison is obviously going to go somewhere on loan as he's got as much of a chance of playing for Man City as me. Little bit odd we're not after him after being prepared to pay £11m for him 4 months ago. GR wasn't the manager 4 months ago? That deal was clearly club-driven, rather than manager-driven. Still, it was clearly one our transfer team were willing to pursue to the tune of £11m. Am I suggesting it should be pursued if Rowett doesn't want to? Clearly not. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/pep-guardiola-moved-scupper-7m-1146537
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 13, 2018 11:39:31 GMT
Ojo seems to be further down the line development wise.
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Post by Pirate on Jul 13, 2018 11:52:10 GMT
Ojo seems to be further down the line development wise. It certainly seems as though general opinion has Wilson as the better player but its worth pointing out that Ojo has 50 career games to his name now, over spells at 3 different championship clubs whilst Wilson has 22 for 2 clubs, 7 of those for Crewe in league one, both are 21. There are a lot of reasons this maybe the case but i think that might indicate Ojo being a bit more Championship ready? Ojo also played 8 times for Liverpool to Wilsons 0.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 13, 2018 11:57:42 GMT
Ojo was part of a promotion winning side last season, I’ll take that. Get him in.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jul 13, 2018 12:12:20 GMT
Ojo looks the more likely I have just been told but Wilson IS our first choice from there. get them both in. And consign McClean to the bin.
Yes please.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2018 12:17:48 GMT
Looks like it could possibly be Ojo instead of Wilson, shame if so as Wilson is definitely the better of the two. You’d like to think it’ll be either another PL team or he’ll be staying. If they loan him to another Championship team I’d be seriously pissed off. That said Ojo is decent and will be a good loan.
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