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Post by spitthedog on Jun 25, 2018 23:19:40 GMT
I reckon Football is ruining VAR....
it was perfect before Football came along
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 26, 2018 6:16:25 GMT
Not with mono who thinks Churchill was a war criminal and is a devout corbynista. The point was very clear you dingbat. I was making the point that it would be a bit of a shame if someone like Alan Shearer was forced to 'find another game'. Do you want me to spell it out in building blocks? Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line.
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Post by Northy on Jun 26, 2018 6:41:28 GMT
Wow, Shearer a nobody, he was one of the best strikers at club and country in modern times. Whooooosh I think? I shouldn't join a discussion half way in
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 26, 2018 7:12:22 GMT
The point was very clear you dingbat. I was making the point that it would be a bit of a shame if someone like Alan Shearer was forced to 'find another game'. Do you want me to spell it out in building blocks? Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line. Did you see the Portugal v Iran game? VAR turned a bad referring performance into a super charged abysmal referring on technology steroids. VAR is not progress - its blind faith in technology. Referring is about making subjective decisions - and sometimes those instant decisions are as good as decisions poured over for ages based on inconclusive video evidence. Referees are going to make mistakes - at least get it over with and let the game flow like it should do. VAR is crap - just let the refs fuck up in real time.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 26, 2018 8:26:25 GMT
Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line. Did you see the Portugal v Iran game? VAR turned a bad referring performance into a super charged abysmal referring on technology steroids. VAR is not progress - its blind faith in technology. Referring is about making subjective decisions - and sometimes those instant decisions are as good as decisions poured over for ages based on inconclusive video evidence. Referees are going to make mistakes - at least get it over with and let the game flow like it should do. VAR is crap - just let the refs fuck up in real time. Yes I saw it. Like I said it needs improving. And it will improve. And football will be the better for it.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jun 26, 2018 9:44:50 GMT
VAR isnt the problem it is the interpretation by wank referees - how can that Iran penalty have been awarded - its always the same at World Cups - wank linesmen and refs who give free kicks for the wrong reasons and I wonder if any of them have ever played a decent level of football or watched a decent level of football - its becoming all about the Refs and I firmly blame FIFA for not educating them in a pre tournament session or three
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 26, 2018 9:50:40 GMT
VAR is wank. The referee was fine until he kept being told to review everything. He got the decisions right (in the main) then fucked them up because of VAR. It needs binning off. Overall, it might get a few more decisions right but it's to the detriment of the spectacle.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 26, 2018 10:19:13 GMT
I think the biggest problem at the moment is that it's actually massively increased the amount of cheating going on. Look at the Ronaldo booking last night. The Iranian player rolled around on the floor holding his face, knowing that the referee can't possibly see what happened and that he will end up consulting VAR. The slow motion replays make anything looks awful, and so Ronaldo got a yellow card. This could easily have been his second yellow, or have led to a suspension, or have even ended up as a red card. It was 100% bought by the Iranian player rolling around on the floor.
It was the same thing with the penalty incident. The Iranian players demanded a penalty and tried to whip the crowd up into a frenzy when the referee was actually reviewing it. How is that right, or fair?
Yet again, it's a rule change that benefits the dishonest cheats, and punishes the honest, sportsmanlike players.
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Post by Gods on Jun 26, 2018 10:31:42 GMT
I do agree, better that refs just make a few mistakes in real time in front of the jury of the watching crowd rather than a few men in a dark room huddled round some grainy video footage desperately trying to see any vague contact in what was once a contact sport.
Conversely all the goal line type technology is fine, where the technology makes the decision. Like a line call in tennis for example. I suspect you could do the same with offside.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 26, 2018 10:42:18 GMT
Has anyone seen an analysis of the amount of game time lost due to the introduction of VAR?
I watched the Portugal v Iran match and there seemed to be a huge amount time lost, particularly in the second half. That doesn't include the 4 minutes spent on VAR in the extra time that was extended from 6 to 7 minutes.
I also think the Iranian players were very close to committing legal (UK) common assault (not physical) on the referee.
The way VAR is being implemented, it seems to me that the VAR team (in Moscow apparently) are putting pressure on the referees to reverse their decisions, not just review their decisions.
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Post by borat on Jun 26, 2018 10:50:32 GMT
I personally like VAR.
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Jun 26, 2018 11:38:22 GMT
I'm really perplexed by peoples expectations that it must get every decision right, as though it's not worth doing otherwise. Not only that but a lot of people against it seem to think that "right" means exactly what they think should have been given. It's a hell of a lot less inconsistent than the man on the pitch. So far it has correctly overturned a number of poor decisions, it has yet to result in a correct decision being overturned incorrectly. No system will ever be 100%. It hasn't impacted the flow of any game that i've seen, it seems largely to have been used quite consistently to my mind, the only exceptions being two incidents involving the same ref. Englands appeal for clarification on holding seems to have led directly to more attention being paid. as far as i can see only good has come from it and more will come as they perfect it's use. I'm coming round to it a bit, but the Saudi penalty just now was a perfect example of it impacting the flow of the game. The players and ref must have been stood around for a good three minutes in the penno area, before the ref finally runs to the sideline to review it himself because the VAR couldn't make their mind up, another two minute wait... he gave the pen in the end but it was five minutes of standing around for a decision that even on multiple replays could have gone either way. Yesterday's were the first games i haven't been able to watch so i'm not really fully up to speed on what happened with any of the pens, but to me the VAR team should just have a button that says marginal call and then can press it within 30 seconds to indicate the ref should stick with his decision. To be fair, any delay in getting the decision can have deducted from it the amount of time spend arguing about it were the reveiew not there. There are always going to be a few shambolic instances when things like this get rolled out but when it's been used well, it has worked.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 26, 2018 11:44:27 GMT
The point was very clear you dingbat. I was making the point that it would be a bit of a shame if someone like Alan Shearer was forced to 'find another game'. Do you want me to spell it out in building blocks? Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line. Any referral system that concludes that there has not been a clear and obvious error in not at least booking a player for this let alone reaching the correct verdict of sending him off is simply unfit for purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 11:54:31 GMT
Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line. Any referral system that concludes that there has not been a clear and obvious error in not at least booking a player for this let alone reaching the correct verdict of sending him off is simply unfit for purpose. And that's the issue and it will always be the issue. We have corrupt/wank/incompetent people in charge of making the decisions, all the technology in the world won't be able to negate that fact.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 26, 2018 12:45:47 GMT
Shearer was a superb footballer. He is pants as a pundit. And his opinion of VAR, along with his other pundit luvvies, is also pants. Of course VAR is far from perfect, but it is clear (to me at least) that it will improve the game. But it's imperfections do need addressing. Yesterday's game showed its biggest problem - which wasn't the Iranian penalty; that was bad refereeing. The big issue is intimidation of the officials, which is only going to get worse as the stakes get higher as the tournament proceeds. A word needs sending out now to all teams reminding them about their conduct and the ref needs to show a few cards if necessary to make the point. Of course VAR worked superbly in the Spain game with a good disallowed goal allowed to stand after the camera showed the player was onside. VAR is progress - but progress is never a straight line. Any referral system that concludes that there has not been a clear and obvious error in not at least booking a player for this let alone reaching the correct verdict of sending him off is simply unfit for purpose. It's not the system at fault.
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Post by vahl on Jun 26, 2018 12:50:40 GMT
I saw the Portugal match and I thought Ronaldo should have been sent off. He's had 2 swipes at the Iranian and there was malice in the 2nd.
The penalty could have gone either way but given Ronaldo should have been sent off it's probably his just desserts in the end.
I still think VAR is badly implemented.
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rednwhiteblood
Lads'n'Dads
Censored for an opinion well done 👏
Posts: 61
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Post by rednwhiteblood on Jun 26, 2018 13:02:29 GMT
VAR is quite obviously good for the game. The way it is being used and the refereeing decisions from it have been good and terrible. The referees have to improve and I don’t think having referees from here there and everywhere is helping VAR’s use. Some diabolical decisions AFTER seeing things again. These decisions are costing nations the chance to progress and it shouldn’t be underestimated that it is ruining the game. Get proper refs and it should work great.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jun 26, 2018 13:29:11 GMT
This. 100%. The anount of times that players go down holding their faces, rolling around 20 times and then getting up with no issues, basically cheating, these are the decisions that should get retrospective 3/4/5 match bans. Pepe in the first game was a prime example against Costa.
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Post by tuum on Jun 26, 2018 13:41:13 GMT
This. 100%. The anount of times that players go down holding their faces, rolling around 20 times and then getting up with no issues, basically cheating, these are the decisions that should get retrospective 3/4/5 match bans. Pepe in the first game was a prime example against Costa. It's beyond belief that the authorities do not want to take any serious action in regard to this. They can stamp it out overnight. It is an easy decision and it would be a very popular one. Why are they not doing it?
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jun 26, 2018 15:19:27 GMT
This. 100%. The anount of times that players go down holding their faces, rolling around 20 times and then getting up with no issues, basically cheating, these are the decisions that should get retrospective 3/4/5 match bans. Pepe in the first game was a prime example against Costa. It's beyond belief that the authorities do not want to take any serious action in regard to this. They can stamp it out overnight. It is an easy decision and it would be a very popular one. Why are they not doing it? Because so many players do it, and players have too much power. FIFA/UEFA are and always will be gutless, case in point....the so called fines handed out for racist chanting? It is so easy to stamp out as you say.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 26, 2018 16:30:17 GMT
Did you see the Portugal v Iran game? VAR turned a bad referring performance into a super charged abysmal referring on technology steroids. VAR is not progress - its blind faith in technology. Referring is about making subjective decisions - and sometimes those instant decisions are as good as decisions poured over for ages based on inconclusive video evidence. Referees are going to make mistakes - at least get it over with and let the game flow like it should do. VAR is crap - just let the refs fuck up in real time. Yes I saw it. Like I said it needs improving. And it will improve. And football will be the better for it. How does it need improving? It's a pointless waste of money.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 26, 2018 16:35:26 GMT
Any referral system that concludes that there has not been a clear and obvious error in not at least booking a player for this let alone reaching the correct verdict of sending him off is simply unfit for purpose. It's not the system at fault. A system that accommodates for massive miscarriages of justice of this nature simply doesn't work.
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Jun 26, 2018 19:18:45 GMT
It's still the refs who are shit ultimately. It took almost 4 mins from the incident to the penalty being scored tonight. Almost all of it after 90 mins. The ref should therefore have played an additional 10 mins not 6. He played 7. Surely these actions will cost teams as regardless of the decision it cost Iran another 3 mins of time to score the goal they needed. And nobody seems to care about that. It shouldn't have been a penalty anyway. I think that's what Shearer was mostly fuming about, despite his Tweet. I agree. But weirdly the time lost was equally crippling for Iran.
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Post by scfcwebby on Jun 26, 2018 19:39:37 GMT
Players pestering the ref to look at VAR is starting to piss me off more than players waving imaginary cards
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Post by Veritas on Jun 26, 2018 21:29:52 GMT
Players pestering the ref to look at VAR is starting to piss me off more than players waving imaginary cards I agree but should be easy to stop if FIFA have got the will to do it, anyone other than the captain approaching the ref yellow card no exceptions.
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anto
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 67
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Post by anto on Jun 26, 2018 21:37:05 GMT
I like iit
How much wrestling did you see after the penalty against Argentina - none.
How much would there have been - loads
VAR sorted it and it will get better
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Post by Veritas on Jun 26, 2018 21:54:50 GMT
I like iit How much wrestling did you see after the penalty against Argentina - none. How much would there have been - loads VAR sorted it and it will get better That is actually a very good point I hadn't thought of, if VAR works it will largely do itself out of a job due to changed behaviour of the players which would be the best of all worlds.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 26, 2018 21:59:16 GMT
It's not the system at fault. A system that accommodates for massive miscarriages of justice of this nature simply doesn't work. That's not sustainable as an argument on its own momo. You could use it against literally any system that has ever "accommodated for" a miscarriage of justice, including the current one which doesn't use VAR (in fact even more so).
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Post by lordb on Jun 26, 2018 21:59:36 GMT
I'm changing my view,when it works/applied properly it's good. When it doesn't work it's a fucking shambles.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 26, 2018 22:05:30 GMT
A system that accommodates for massive miscarriages of justice of this nature simply doesn't work. That's not sustainable as an argument on its own momo. You could use it against literally any system that has ever "accommodated for" a miscarriage of justice, including the current one which doesn't use VAR (in fact even more so). Its a system where effectively 7 referees faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary chose to ignore one of the most accepted and established no no's in the game. Either the system is broken or it is corrupt.
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