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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 18:59:54 GMT
Not on the scale it happened at our place it doesnt. It does. It happened to West Brom only this season for example... Our woes aren't just down to poor managerial decisions though and I'd say that West Brom are far better equipped to go straight back up next season than we are. I think that we could do well next season if we can keep the good eggs of our squad together, which when you think about quality as well they are few and far between, but I reckon West Brom have just had one of those seasons that I think you're alluding to, whereas our demise has been a lot more deep rooted than just a bad season which any team outside of the top six can have. I wouldn't be surprised to see West Brom right at the top of the championship next season at all and i reckon Gary Rowett has the tougher job on his hands out of himself and Darren Moore at this moment in time.
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Post by chigstoke on May 23, 2018 19:31:29 GMT
You might have edited it but I've still got the original Was a typo mate thats what you get for a MacBook with an american keyboard That makes it even more weird This is an american Macbook layout This is a EU/UK Layout Unless your letters P and S magically swapped spaces I cannot possibly how you wrote that
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Post by claytonscrubs on May 23, 2018 19:42:12 GMT
Don’t forget his respectable 13th place, a penalty kick from a League Cup Final, 3 top ten finishes with Blackburn, 8th place in his only season with Fulham, a good job with Wales, guiding Southampton to Prem League safety......Fraudster? My arse! The only Fraudster I know is Lambert, who’s done fook all since his Norwich days, where he had the help of Culverhouse and Karsa as part of his backroom staff. But everyone’s entitled to their opinion, even the Hughes bashing wolf pack.....Some people just can’t let go 😉😀 Hughes lost interest when the hierarchy did which, of course, is to his detriment. I don’t think Hughes lost interest, he just lost the plot and put his faith in players like Berahino, who was too busy shagging prostitutes, allegedly 🙂 and Wimmer, who looked like he was stuffing himself on McDonald’s Happy Meals... Hughes did a great job in his first three seasons, but the wheels started to fall off in season four, and should’ve been sacked last summer, but he’s no fraudster!
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 23, 2018 19:57:48 GMT
Hughes lost interest when the hierarchy did which, of course, is to his detriment. I don’t think Hughes lost interest, he just lost the plot and put his faith in players like Berahino, who was too busy shagging prostitutes, allegedly 🙂 and Wimmer, who looked like he was stuffing himself on McDonald’s Happy Meals... Hughes did a great job in his first three seasons, but the wheels started to fall off in season four, and should have been sacked last summer, but he’s no fraudster! I feel he saw what was happening above and let them get on with it while he coined it in. Apparently he only turned for 'normal' hours, never watched prospective players live. He even said he didn't get stressed as he never took problems home with him. Lucky man! “I’m very fortunate, I don’t feel I take any issues surrounding work into my home life and I’m grateful for that ability because I know there are many managers who aren’t able to do that." anyway I'm pissed off for the hope he gave us before 'he lost it'! Something happened after the Liverpool Semi final. It all turned to shit after that! Anyway look forwards not back. Pulis and Hughes are history, Rowett the future, bright, hopefully!
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Post by Veritas on May 23, 2018 20:02:31 GMT
Hughes lost interest when the hierarchy did which, of course, is to his detriment. I don’t think Hughes lost interest, he just lost the plot and put his faith in players like Berahino, who was too busy shagging prostitutes, allegedly 🙂 and Wimmer, who looked like he was stuffing himself on McDonald’s Happy Meals... Hughes did a great job in his first three seasons, but the wheels started to fall off in season four, and should’ve been sacked last summer, but he’s no fraudster! Quite right Hughes completely lost his way ending up like a rabbit in the headlights and had to go, in fact probably should have gone earlier, but that does not erase our best run of top half top division finishes ever and being one penalty kick away from only our third ever Wembley final. It went horribly wrong but it was at one point very, very good.
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Post by PotterLog on May 23, 2018 21:21:17 GMT
To be fair a bloody big portion of the players that played well to get us to lofty positions were the ones he signed. Arnie/Shaq/Wingie/Bojan etc True but the spine of the team through all that were Pulis players, when they started shipping out and we didn't replace like for like the problems began. I did a quick evaluation of the players who played in what I think are the three best performances under Hughes: Arse 3-2 Dec 201414 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Liverpool 6-1 May 201514 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Man City 2-0 Dec 201514 players used Hughes signings: 8 Pulis signings: 5 (+Erik Pieters) Total player appearances: 42 Appearances by Hughes signings: 14 Appearances by Pulis signings: 25 Actual players used: 25 Hughes signings: 12 Pulis signings: 13 I'm counting Pieters as neutral because he was kind of in between the two. You could probably count that ManC game as Hughes' zenith - a month or so after that we beat Liverpool in the cup semi and then broadly speaking it was downbank after that. To be fair to Hughes that was the best Stoke performance many of us have ever seen and that was mostly his team, but the starting lineup was pretty much half-and-half and you could argue that the spine was TP-based - Butland Shawx Cameron Whelan (and Walters came on as sub). Perhaps that game represented the perfect mix of the two epochs - after that the balance tipped and things went swiftly south. However it's notable that the other two outstanding performances were dominated by Pulis signings.. that Liverpool game was already four transfer windows into Leslie's reign - that's longer than most managers last full stop - and he only had two of his signings in the starting lineup...
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 22:08:54 GMT
Should be announced soon - link" Chairman Ralph Krueger labelled Hughes and his assistants Mark Bowen and Eddie Niedzwiecki as a 'perfect fit' for Saints. "
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Post by thegift on May 23, 2018 22:30:50 GMT
Was a typo mate thats what you get for a MacBook with an american keyboard That makes it even more weird This is an american Macbook layout This is a EU/UK Layout Unless your letters P and S magically swapped spaces I cannot possibly how you wrote that Also american spell check as well
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Post by kustokie on May 24, 2018 1:55:27 GMT
I don’t think Hughes lost interest, he just lost the plot and put his faith in players like Berahino, who was too busy shagging prostitutes, allegedly 🙂 and Wimmer, who looked like he was stuffing himself on McDonald’s Happy Meals... Hughes did a great job in his first three seasons, but the wheels started to fall off in season four, and should have been sacked last summer, but he’s no fraudster! I feel he saw what was happening above and let them get on with it while he coined it in. Apparently he only turned for 'normal' hours, never watched prospective players live. He even said he didn't get stressed as he never took problems home with him. Lucky man! “I’m very fortunate, I don’t feel I take any issues surrounding work into my home life and I’m grateful for that ability because I know there are many managers who aren’t able to do that." anyway I'm pissed off for the hope he gave us before 'he lost it'! Something happened after the Liverpool Semi final. It all turned to shit after that! Anyway look forwards not back. Pulis and Hughes are history, Rowett the future, bright, hopefully! I said that two years ago and got roundly slagged off for denying him the right to a home life. Managers who are paid a million or more a year are expected to be present 24/7 mentally if not physically - it goes with the territory. I doubt Pellegrini leaves work behind him when he leaves the training ground. Fergie could not be found for a press conference after winning the league because he had gone for a walk to think about they could improve for next season. That’s not the life for most people but it’s what’s required to be succcesful at the highest level in any profession.
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Post by PotterLog on May 24, 2018 2:03:40 GMT
I feel he saw what was happening above and let them get on with it while he coined it in. Apparently he only turned for 'normal' hours, never watched prospective players live. He even said he didn't get stressed as he never took problems home with him. Lucky man! “I’m very fortunate, I don’t feel I take any issues surrounding work into my home life and I’m grateful for that ability because I know there are many managers who aren’t able to do that." anyway I'm pissed off for the hope he gave us before 'he lost it'! Something happened after the Liverpool Semi final. It all turned to shit after that! Anyway look forwards not back. Pulis and Hughes are history, Rowett the future, bright, hopefully! I said that two years ago and got roundly slagged off for denying him the right to a home life. Managers who are paid a million or more a year are expected to be present 24/7 mentally if not physically - it goes with the territory. I doubt Pellegrini leaves work behind him when he leaves the training ground. Fergie could not be found for a press conference after winning the league because he had gone for a walk to think about they could improve for next season. That’s not the life for most people but it’s what’s required to be succcesful at the highest level in any profession. Interesting point in light of Rowett’s comment from his interview that he gets up hours before his family to work even when he’s on holiday
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on May 24, 2018 2:31:13 GMT
For a rebuilding project I’d rather have Rowett than Hughes.
Will Hughes come in for Imbula, Wimmer and Berahino if he rated them so highly?
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Post by kustokie on May 24, 2018 3:25:03 GMT
For a rebuilding project I’d rather have Rowett than Hughes. Will Hughes come in for Imbula, Wimmer and Berahino if he rated them so highly? Hughes is lazy and stubborn when it comes to recruiting but I doubt he’ll make the same mistake twice (unfortunately). I can see his coming for Allen, based on his performance in the Euros and in his first year at Stoke - oh, and did I mention he’s Welsh.
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Post by salopstick on May 24, 2018 5:36:03 GMT
True but the spine of the team through all that were Pulis players, when they started shipping out and we didn't replace like for like the problems began. I did a quick evaluation of the players who played in what I think are the three best performances under Hughes: Arse 3-2 Dec 201414 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Liverpool 6-1 May 201514 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Man City 2-0 Dec 201514 players used Hughes signings: 8 Pulis signings: 5 (+Erik Pieters) Total player appearances: 42 Appearances by Hughes signings: 14 Appearances by Pulis signings: 25 Actual players used: 25 Hughes signings: 12 Pulis signings: 13 I'm counting Pieters as neutral because he was kind of in between the two. You could probably count that ManC game as Hughes' zenith - a month or so after that we beat Liverpool in the cup semi and then broadly speaking it was downbank after that. To be fair to Hughes that was the best Stoke performance many of us have ever seen and that was mostly his team, but the starting lineup was pretty much half-and-half and you could argue that the spine was TP-based - Butland Shawx Cameron Whelan (and Walters came on as sub). Perhaps that game represented the perfect mix of the two epochs - after that the balance tipped and things went swiftly south. However it's notable that the other two outstanding performances were dominated by Pulis signings.. that Liverpool game was already four transfer windows into Leslie's reign - that's longer than most managers last full stop - and he only had two of his signings in the starting lineup... but any manager will normally have a greater proportion of previous manager players in the first couple of years at a club which will go down the longer he stays there.
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Post by elystokie on May 24, 2018 7:18:15 GMT
That makes it even more weird This is an american Macbook layout This is a EU/UK Layout Unless your letters P and S magically swapped spaces I cannot possibly how you wrote that Also american spell check as well Which one did you use for your dissertation when you got that Batchelors degree?
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Post by chigstoke on May 24, 2018 8:08:33 GMT
That makes it even more weird This is an american Macbook layout This is a EU/UK Layout Unless your letters P and S magically swapped spaces I cannot possibly how you wrote that Also american spell check as well Well there you go then, you're using the devils English. Change the spell checker to English (Traditional)!
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Post by Absolution on May 24, 2018 8:29:45 GMT
I did a quick evaluation of the players who played in what I think are the three best performances under Hughes: Arse 3-2 Dec 201414 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Liverpool 6-1 May 201514 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Man City 2-0 Dec 201514 players used Hughes signings: 8 Pulis signings: 5 (+Erik Pieters) Total player appearances: 42 Appearances by Hughes signings: 14 Appearances by Pulis signings: 25 Actual players used: 25 Hughes signings: 12 Pulis signings: 13 I'm counting Pieters as neutral because he was kind of in between the two. You could probably count that ManC game as Hughes' zenith - a month or so after that we beat Liverpool in the cup semi and then broadly speaking it was downbank after that. To be fair to Hughes that was the best Stoke performance many of us have ever seen and that was mostly his team, but the starting lineup was pretty much half-and-half and you could argue that the spine was TP-based - Butland Shawx Cameron Whelan (and Walters came on as sub). Perhaps that game represented the perfect mix of the two epochs - after that the balance tipped and things went swiftly south. However it's notable that the other two outstanding performances were dominated by Pulis signings.. that Liverpool game was already four transfer windows into Leslie's reign - that's longer than most managers last full stop - and he only had two of his signings in the starting lineup... but any manager will normally have a greater proportion of previous manager players in the first couple of years at a club which will go down the longer he stays there. Correct. This whole 'not his team' thing is pathetic really. Can't remember anyone trying to take the credit away from Macari because half his promotion team were players he'd inherited from Ball and Mills. Macari added signings and got the players already there to play better than they'd done under previous managers, just like Hughes did.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 24, 2018 9:59:47 GMT
Good debate about Hughes and how much he cared at the end.
The Stokelona was his peak for sure and the future looked really bright.
He did try to adapt his formations and style overtime but he didnt plan properly at all. His decision to play 3 at the back was disastrous given we had no proper wingbacks.
IF he was a Fergie type, he would have planned this changed far in advance and signed players to fit the system.
RULE NUMBER 1 for ALL managers - pick a bloody system first and then sign players who fit into that system.
Too many managers just buy players because they are good and available with no idea how to use them - Mourinho is a classic example buying the likes of Pogba and Sanchez. Great players but how are you going to use them effectively??
The Hughes purchase of Berahino is the one that sticks out the most. Even without his off-field issues it was never clear how he would fit in as a lone striker in 4-2-3-1. The fact he chased him for 2 years should have been ringing alarm bells with the pizzaboys.
A manager goes stale when they run out of new ideas. Players are not motivated to improve and start going through the motions. It happened under Pulis and again under Hughes.
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Post by PotterLog on May 24, 2018 12:25:33 GMT
I did a quick evaluation of the players who played in what I think are the three best performances under Hughes: Arse 3-2 Dec 201414 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Liverpool 6-1 May 201514 players used Hughes signings: 3 Pulis signings: 10 (+Erik Pieters) Man City 2-0 Dec 201514 players used Hughes signings: 8 Pulis signings: 5 (+Erik Pieters) Total player appearances: 42 Appearances by Hughes signings: 14 Appearances by Pulis signings: 25 Actual players used: 25 Hughes signings: 12 Pulis signings: 13 I'm counting Pieters as neutral because he was kind of in between the two. You could probably count that ManC game as Hughes' zenith - a month or so after that we beat Liverpool in the cup semi and then broadly speaking it was downbank after that. To be fair to Hughes that was the best Stoke performance many of us have ever seen and that was mostly his team, but the starting lineup was pretty much half-and-half and you could argue that the spine was TP-based - Butland Shawx Cameron Whelan (and Walters came on as sub). Perhaps that game represented the perfect mix of the two epochs - after that the balance tipped and things went swiftly south. However it's notable that the other two outstanding performances were dominated by Pulis signings.. that Liverpool game was already four transfer windows into Leslie's reign - that's longer than most managers last full stop - and he only had two of his signings in the starting lineup... but any manager will normally have a greater proportion of previous manager players in the first couple of years at a club which will go down the longer he stays there. Most managers don’t even get as long as a couple of years in the job. Which is why “transfer teams” not involving the manager have become more prevalent. Either way, only having two of your own signings in a starting lineup after you’ve had four transfer windows has got to be low. I’m not using this as a judgement about his management one way or the other, btw
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Post by mermaidsal on May 24, 2018 13:00:52 GMT
A snippet from a Saints fan mate of mine: "we haven't got a manager at the moment. no news from the club. Rumour has it that it's all done, but that rumour came out a week ago. Some other ITK reckoned that we were sounding out other options. It'll be Hughes, I'm sure."Not just our board who are serial ditherers I was never a "bring on the Championship" type but I have to admit if someone offered me to swap with Southampton now, i.e. scraping survival with Hughes at the helm for the coming season, I'd have to think twice... Do you honestly think they'll be scraping survival tho? Must admit I don't, he's got someone else's squad, can bring in a couple of faves to Sparkyise the place a bit, can't see why they can't be mid-table or better for a couple of seasons before the rot sets in. He's a quality manager, just can't organise a defence or recruit well enough at this level and neither can Bowen or Eddie it seems. We know this scenario too well
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Post by PotterLog on May 24, 2018 13:13:52 GMT
A snippet from a Saints fan mate of mine: "we haven't got a manager at the moment. no news from the club. Rumour has it that it's all done, but that rumour came out a week ago. Some other ITK reckoned that we were sounding out other options. It'll be Hughes, I'm sure."Not just our board who are serial ditherers I was never a "bring on the Championship" type but I have to admit if someone offered me to swap with Southampton now, i.e. scraping survival with Hughes at the helm for the coming season, I'd have to think twice... Do you honestly think they'll be scraping survival tho? Must admit I don't, he's got someone else's squad, can bring in a couple of faves to Sparkyise the place a bit, can't see why they can't be mid-table or better for a couple of seasons before the rot sets in. He's a quality manager, just can't organise a defence or recruit well enough at this level and neither can Bowen or Eddie it seems. We know this scenario too well I meant having just scraped survival rather than predicting next season. And yeah the two situations aren’t really comparable, I was thinking of it more in terms of us surviving and continuing with Les
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Post by thegift on May 24, 2018 23:00:54 GMT
Also american spell check as well Well there you go then, you're using the devils English. Change the spell checker to English (Traditional)! just how its set up mate, relatively new haven't changed it
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