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Post by vahl on May 4, 2018 12:33:02 GMT
What does he mean when he says? “For me personally, Stoke will not be any easier next year if things do not change in terms of training," I was going to post this earlier when I read it. I read it like he was having a dig at the club's training methods at first but I don't think he is - he is just saying there is no point for him to be here if he has to stay training with the U23's.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 12:39:14 GMT
Why? Because of what Wimmer has said to the Austrian media? He's not exactly going to say "Actually under the new manager I was bang to rights, I am fat, lazy and unfit and above all not very good - which is the correct opinion of the overwhelming majority of the Stoke supporters. He was right to call me out - I'd been pinching a living". He was a poor purchase, he's shown nothing that warrants his inclusion in the squad, virtually everyone on this message board wants him off the books and out of the squad and it seems that's what the manager has facilitated. I get you don't like Lambert (and you take absolutely every opportunity to tell us so) - but that's no reason to pay much attention to an interview from a fat waster spun for consumption by his own domestic audience. We've had plenty of players that the manager hasn't rated etc say they've felt they've been given a chance to prove them wrong and turn it around. It doesn't sound like Wimmer has had that chance. That is wrong. I don't see why he'd make it up if it wasn't true. There's nothing in it for him as it makes him look bad too. It fits with how we know he operated at Villa too. And again it seems like the situation has been made worse by the manager. Which again is why I don't like the Wyatt Earp approach mid-season. ...but at the same time, the in-favour players are pulling up trees for the new manager (compared to what often looked like downed tools for Hughes)??
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 4, 2018 12:40:07 GMT
It's all about (financial) damage limitation. However, when Zouma leaves, we'll be down a centre back, so never say never.
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Post by jezzascfc on May 4, 2018 12:52:11 GMT
It's all about (financial) damage limitation. However, when Zouma leaves, we'll be down a centre back, so never say never. If Bruno and Ryan stay, they can be first choice, with Geoff as back up and Sweeney as the youngster in the squad as cover. We have far more pressing needs further up the pitch and losing some of Wimmer's wages and his bad juju around the place will be most beneficial.
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Post by westgatelakes on May 4, 2018 12:57:47 GMT
translated literally it sounds as though he`s saying that training is hard and he doesn`t enjoy it !
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 4, 2018 13:02:53 GMT
We've had plenty of players that the manager hasn't rated etc say they've felt they've been given a chance to prove them wrong and turn it around. It doesn't sound like Wimmer has had that chance. That is wrong. I don't see why he'd make it up if it wasn't true. There's nothing in it for him as it makes him look bad too. It fits with how we know he operated at Villa too. And again it seems like the situation has been made worse by the manager. Which again is why I don't like the Wyatt Earp approach mid-season. ...but at the same time, the in-favour players are pulling up trees for the new manager (compared to what often looked like downed tools for Hughes)?? Who though? Butland? Effort never in doubt. Shawcross- effort never in doubt. Indi - didn't play for Hughes due to fitness and was a massive miss (cheers Tony). Pieters- imo effort never in doubt. Allen - effort never in doubt. Shaq- nothing has majorly changed. Choupo- nothing changed. Diouf- effort never in doubt. So the ones Lambert is playing that are generally the same as Hughes played I don't think there has been much of change. What has changed is that we've added two Hughes signings with loads of energy and plenty of talent to that mix and we are more organised. We're also not playing a really ridiculous formation that the players don't suit nor understand.
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Post by eebygum on May 4, 2018 13:13:59 GMT
Ahl be close ta completion if we can gerr rid o' 'a' fa' lump!
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Post by nigerianstokie on May 4, 2018 13:29:45 GMT
Ahl be close ta completion if we can gerr rid o' 'a' fa' lump! Can we have that in an understandable sentence as opposed to that bollocks?
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Post by Clayton Wood on May 4, 2018 13:34:50 GMT
What does he mean when he says? “For me personally, Stoke will not be any easier next year if things do not change in terms of training,"
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Post by Gods on May 4, 2018 13:45:27 GMT
How can Coates come out and say the process works when the process allowed us to sign Wimmer for £18m? By 'the process' I think Coates means something like this: Scholes as Chief Executive sets the parameters around what we can spend based upon guidance from the Board of Directors and ensures that major acquisitions are in line with our playing strategy. Cartwright, in his poacher turned gamekeeper role, works the players agent, lawyers and sundry hangers on often across international borders to ensure the contract is the best it can be for Stoke City and legally watertight and is complete to any deadlines. My guess is Coates believes we are operating to our budgets, the contracts are sound and the deals have been in line with the club strategy, so 'the process' works. The problem, and it is a massive one, is we have on several occasions and almost always when he have spent large bought the wrong players. Hughes has taken the rap for that, which suggests to me he is (or was) the final arbiter on which players we signed. Which is why Scholes and Cartwright survived and Hughes is down at Southampton. I'm not saying it's right but I think that may be Coates view of the world. In short he thinks we need to buy some better players, the rest works okay!
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 4, 2018 13:46:50 GMT
As I've said countless times I want Lambert out of our club immediately. If we lose on Saturday and he's still here Monday morning I'll be fuming. But with all the sticks around with which we can beat him, deffing out the useless fat twat Wimmer is but a twiglet. It's a bigger issue than Wimmer though. I understand that. But are you saying he was wrong to def out Wimmer, Berahino and Jese? I think that's one of his more commendable acheivements. It's a red herring to my way of thinking. It's the fact that he appears to be a shit coach, a terrible tactician and 10 years out of date in his approach to the game which makes me desperate for him to go. Not the fact that he's introduced discipline into a very ill disciplined squad.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 4, 2018 14:20:50 GMT
It's a bigger issue than Wimmer though. I understand that. But are you saying he was wrong to def out Wimmer, Berahino and Jese? I think that's one of his more commendable acheivements. It's a red herring to my way of thinking. It's the fact that he appears to be a shit coach, a terrible tactician and 10 years out of date in his approach to the game which makes me desperate for him to go. Not the fact that he's introduced discipline into a very ill disciplined squad. I think so. Berahino is way more use than Campbell. Why would you tell a player who you haven't played (in Wimmer) that he stands no chance of changing that? Jese deserved a chance to play too especially with Chopper's form. I really don't think it was the right time for it. Olive branches were the order of the day not a gatling gun. If they then throw that in his face then fair dos. But I don't think they overly have.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 14:22:51 GMT
Sometimes I forget he is even at the club
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Post by Seymour Beaver on May 4, 2018 14:27:09 GMT
There's every reason to say it despite not being true. The likely truth would not play out very well for future employers. If it's his intention to go back to the Bundesliga then by fibbing in the german speaking media it's unlikely to be challenged by anyone from Stoke and his version will therefore become the authorized one. Back in the UK Stoke are unlikely to say anything anyway as they don't want to prejudice a move. As for Lambert's "Wyatt Earp" methods he's being backed by Coates which says more about him than it says about Lambert. Because he also backed Hughes. So within a season he's backed both Holiday Camp and Boot Camp. The man needs to make up his f****g mind what he wants - and quite frankly I don't think he knows - and that's where you need to turn your fire. Lamberts the symptom - not the disease. There's very few teams (Stoke excepted) that sign a player coz he's says he's not shit in the media. They'll do their due diligence on the player and their assessment is unlikely to be materially affected by what Wimmer is telling the media Which is true - .............but whether it's Wimmer - or it's Shaq looking to make sure none of the relegation shit sticks to him with "It's not me - it's the players around me that are crap" in the Swiss press - when due diligence will tell you that he more technically gifted than most of our squad, but doesn't track back, goes missing in big games and takes shit corners. Or whether it's Butland trying to push Southgate into a corner with "He needs to name his first choice goalkeeper now" back in March - which if he did would likely backfire as he wouldn't be most people first choice on current form ................they all try to manipulate opinion through the media - whether it works or not.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 4, 2018 14:29:34 GMT
What does he mean when he says? “For me personally, Stoke will not be any easier next year if things do not change in terms of training," He likes being a fat bastard and can't be arsed with doing what he's paid for.
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Post by PotterLog on May 4, 2018 14:49:29 GMT
Pound for pound Wimmer is the worst signing in our history. Even Imbula had a couple of decent (outstanding in fact) performances.
And after the mushy Instagram love-in with his Tottenham fwends after bending over to receive a dry pumping from them, I really can't bring myself to care what's gone on. I hope he fucks orf at the earliest opportunity and we never hear of him again.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 4, 2018 15:29:42 GMT
I understand that. But are you saying he was wrong to def out Wimmer, Berahino and Jese? I think that's one of his more commendable acheivements. It's a red herring to my way of thinking. It's the fact that he appears to be a shit coach, a terrible tactician and 10 years out of date in his approach to the game which makes me desperate for him to go. Not the fact that he's introduced discipline into a very ill disciplined squad. I think so. Berahino is way more use than Campbell. Why would you tell a player who you haven't played (in Wimmer) that he stands no chance of changing that? Jese deserved a chance to play too especially with Chopper's form. I really don't think it was the right time for it. Olive branches were the order of the day not a gatling gun. If they then throw that in his face then fair dos. But I don't think they overly have. Ah well I think he was right. That and sorting the defenceout are about the only things he has done right. Opinions Eh!
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Post by Davef on May 4, 2018 15:36:28 GMT
translated literally it sounds as though he`s saying that training is hard and he doesn`t enjoy it ! I understood it to mean that he's not involved with the first team set up. He's been playing with the Under 23's, so maybe he's training with them as well?
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 4, 2018 15:38:33 GMT
Pound for pound Wimmer is the worst signing in our history. Even Imbula had a couple of decent (outstanding in fact) performances. And after the mushy Instagram love-in with his Tottenham fwends after bending over to receive a dry pumping from them, I really can't bring myself to care what's gone on. I hope he fucks orf at the earliest opportunity and we never hear of him again. Wimmer has been overweight for as long as he's been in England. I remember watching him for Spurs when he scored an own goal at Arsenal and thought what a double chinned fat sod he was then. Also, how useless Spurs looked when he had to come in for Vertonghen when he was injured. Add to that he never wins a header, barely gets stuck in or isn't quick then that makes you pretty useless in my book. That Mahrez goal against us for example showed how stupid he is, letting the most left footed player in the league (since Imbula left) to come inside him and shoot was unforgivable. The bloke is a complete dud, one I never wanted here in the first place. £10m more than Indi?.. who the fuck thought that was a good deal? He makes Indi look like Sol Campbell in his pomp when in fact he's just okay.
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Post by PotterLog on May 4, 2018 15:44:30 GMT
translated literally it sounds as though he`s saying that training is hard and he doesn`t enjoy it ! I understood it to mean that he's not involved with the first team set up. He's been playing with the Under 23's, so maybe he's training with them as well? I think it probably means a change in training as in who is training the team, i.e. a change in manager.
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Post by Davef on May 4, 2018 15:45:57 GMT
I understood it to mean that he's not involved with the first team set up. He's been playing with the Under 23's, so maybe he's training with them as well? I think it probably means a change in training as in who is training the team, i.e. a change in manager. Yeah, come to think of it, that's probably more like it. Edit: Considering I've just seen a picture on the SCFC Twitter account of him training with the first team.
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Post by vahl on May 4, 2018 16:05:44 GMT
How can Coates come out and say the process works when the process allowed us to sign Wimmer for £18m? By 'the process' I think Coates means something like this: Scholes as Chief Executive sets the parameters around what we can spend based upon guidance from the Board of Directors and ensures that major acquisitions are in line with our playing strategy. Cartwright, in his poacher turned gamekeeper role, works the players agent, lawyers and sundry hangers on often across international borders to ensure the contract is the best it can be for Stoke City and legally watertight and is complete to any deadlines. My guess is Coates believes we are operating to our budgets, the contracts are sound and the deals have been in line with the club strategy, so 'the process' works. The problem, and it is a massive one, is we have on several occasions and almost always when he have spent large bought the wrong players. Hughes has taken the rap for that, which suggests to me he is (or was) the final arbiter on which players we signed. Which is why Scholes and Cartwright survived and Hughes is down at Southampton. I'm not saying it's right but I think that may be Coates view of the world. In short he thinks we need to buy some better players, the rest works okay! If you are right with what you say, doesn't that mean we basically have 2 people doing the same job? Why is Cartwright doing what Tony Scholes does? I've done a bit of research, after wildly accusing Cartwright of being the main culprit, and now I don't think he is. I was wrong. In fact I don't even know why we need him but it's not his fault. Kevin Cruickshank & Mark Hughes with Tony Scholes being the mug that couldn't say no, say no more.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 16:29:49 GMT
I understand that. But are you saying he was wrong to def out Wimmer, Berahino and Jese? I think that's one of his more commendable acheivements. It's a red herring to my way of thinking. It's the fact that he appears to be a shit coach, a terrible tactician and 10 years out of date in his approach to the game which makes me desperate for him to go. Not the fact that he's introduced discipline into a very ill disciplined squad. I think so. Berahino is way more use than Campbell. Why would you tell a player who you haven't played (in Wimmer) that he stands no chance of changing that? Jese deserved a chance to play too especially with Chopper's form. I really don't think it was the right time for it. Olive branches were the order of the day not a gatling gun. If they then throw that in his face then fair dos. But I don't think they overly have. Re Wimner: Especially when we have such a wealth of talent in the squad! 😬
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Post by jeycov on May 4, 2018 16:51:07 GMT
...but at the same time, the in-favour players are pulling up trees for the new manager (compared to what often looked like downed tools for Hughes)?? Who though? Butland? Effort never in doubt. Shawcross- effort never in doubt. Indi - didn't play for Hughes due to fitness and was a massive miss (cheers Tony). Pieters- imo effort never in doubt. Allen - effort never in doubt. Shaq- nothing has majorly changed. Choupo- nothing changed. Diouf- effort never in doubt. So the ones Lambert is playing that are generally the same as Hughes played I don't think there has been much of change. What has changed is that we've added two Hughes signings with loads of energy and plenty of talent to that mix and we are more organised. We're also not playing a really ridiculous formation that the players don't suit nor understand. Shaqiri? Hardly any time in the treatment room, a massive bonus for us! everything crossed that he completes our next 2 vital games
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 4, 2018 17:01:26 GMT
Who though? Butland? Effort never in doubt. Shawcross- effort never in doubt. Indi - didn't play for Hughes due to fitness and was a massive miss (cheers Tony). Pieters- imo effort never in doubt. Allen - effort never in doubt. Shaq- nothing has majorly changed. Choupo- nothing changed. Diouf- effort never in doubt. So the ones Lambert is playing that are generally the same as Hughes played I don't think there has been much of change. What has changed is that we've added two Hughes signings with loads of energy and plenty of talent to that mix and we are more organised. We're also not playing a really ridiculous formation that the players don't suit nor understand. Shaqiri? Hardly any time in the treatment room, a massive bonus for us! everything crossed that he completes our next 2 vital games That hasn't been an issue this season though and that's what I was comparing.
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Post by chigstoke on May 4, 2018 17:06:47 GMT
Ahl be close ta completion if we can gerr rid o' 'a' fa' lump! Just how many people do you actually know who go around speaking like that every day, especially on the internet? You're making anyone who speaks with a Potteries accent look like a ****.
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Post by Gods on May 4, 2018 21:31:33 GMT
By 'the process' I think Coates means something like this: Scholes as Chief Executive sets the parameters around what we can spend based upon guidance from the Board of Directors and ensures that major acquisitions are in line with our playing strategy. Cartwright, in his poacher turned gamekeeper role, works the players agent, lawyers and sundry hangers on often across international borders to ensure the contract is the best it can be for Stoke City and legally watertight and is complete to any deadlines. My guess is Coates believes we are operating to our budgets, the contracts are sound and the deals have been in line with the club strategy, so 'the process' works. The problem, and it is a massive one, is we have on several occasions and almost always when he have spent large bought the wrong players. Hughes has taken the rap for that, which suggests to me he is (or was) the final arbiter on which players we signed. Which is why Scholes and Cartwright survived and Hughes is down at Southampton. I'm not saying it's right but I think that may be Coates view of the world. In short he thinks we need to buy some better players, the rest works okay! If you are right with what you say, doesn't that mean we basically have 2 people doing the same job? Why is Cartwright doing what Tony Scholes does? I've done a bit of research, after wildly accusing Cartwright of being the main culprit, and now I don't think he is. I was wrong. In fact I don't even know why we need him but it's not his fault. Kevin Cruickshank & Mark Hughes with Tony Scholes being the mug that couldn't say no, say no more. I don't think Cartwright does the same thing as Scholes. Scholes is the Chief Executive, the highest-ranking executive at the club, his primary responsibilities include making major decisions, managing the overall operations and resources of the club, and acting as the main point of communication between the board of directors and club operations. In other words he oversees everything from the Ticket Office to the Sponsorship deals to the Catering to the Marketing to the Academy to the Manager. Cartwright came from Beswicks, sports agents and contract lawyers, he is poacher turned gamekeeper, his involvement is in the mechanics of buying and selling of players and ensuring the contracts are in place. The reason he is good at it is that he understands how agents work, the complexities of deals across international borders and he has a knowledge of contract law. He makes transfers in and out happen but I suspect his involvement in the 'who' is decidedly limited. He might scupper a transfer deal but not because he doesn't think the player is any good, more because he thinks the players agents are impossible to deal with or their demands ridiculous or the contractual situation and ownership of the player is clouded and doubtful. That's how I think it is supposed to work anyway and that is what Coates calls the 'process'. I think people greatly overstate the role of Scholes and Cartwright in who we buy. Scholes has a say as any Chief Executive would have on a major investment and Cartwright tries to make it happen. But it is the manager who decides. This is all informed guess work on my part of course. In short Coates thinks the club is well run and the transfer process works. Trouble is the manager keeps choosing players who are mentally fragile, physically fragile, on the decline or all 3.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 22:01:20 GMT
I feel that this is too kind on him, surely we shouldn't just allow him to leave.
At this point would it be worth 18m to keep him in some sort of torture chamber?
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Post by soccerhq on May 4, 2018 23:16:45 GMT
No idea why you signed him.
He was rubbish at Spurs and you already had plenty of CBs on your books.
Sort of signing prem clubs who lose their way make. As a Villa fan I should know.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 5, 2018 0:38:16 GMT
What does he mean when he says? “For me personally, Stoke will not be any easier next year if things do not change in terms of training," Well he's obviously got a problem with English but besides that he's admitting he doesn't fit in because he has to work hard and be extremely fit which he is incapable of.
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