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Post by thegift on Apr 17, 2018 13:22:58 GMT
Coates shouldn't get abuse. But he does deserve criticism. Unfortunately Bayern, I feel that some people don't know the difference between abuse & criticism. I had the pleasure approximately one year ago to meet Peter Coates face to face. His passion for Stoke City is beyond any doubt & I'm sure that he's feeling as much pain (if not more) than the rest of us right now. The only criticism I could possibly level at Peter Coates is his loyality & trust in officials at the club who should have been removed sooner, or are yet to be sacked. So why could he care so much about stoke and refuse to buy a striker in the transfer window? We were absolutely crying out for one. £25M on a striker was going to cost less than relegation.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 17, 2018 14:04:24 GMT
Unfortunately Bayern, I feel that some people don't know the difference between abuse & criticism. I had the pleasure approximately one year ago to meet Peter Coates face to face. His passion for Stoke City is beyond any doubt & I'm sure that he's feeling as much pain (if not more) than the rest of us right now. The only criticism I could possibly level at Peter Coates is his loyality & trust in officials at the club who should have been removed sooner, or are yet to be sacked. So why could he care so much about stoke and refuse to buy a striker in the transfer window? We were absolutely crying out for one. £25M on a striker was going to cost less than relegation. A very succinct question. And in itself cristalises MANY questions that people would like answers to. 1. Is his/their heart in it as much as it's ever been? 2. Were the necessary (and this is the important word here) readies available to be spent on a striker in January or was the 'self-suficency' drum still being beaten? 3. If the answer to No. 2 is yes, then who is responsible for the failure to do so? If the answer to No. 2 is no and Scholes and Cartwright were having to operate within the constrains of self-sufficency, then fingers really need to be pointed at the family, rather than the gruesome twosome.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 17, 2018 14:08:04 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 17, 2018 14:12:47 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done. I guess the question is ... did Scholes and Cartwright have £40 million available to get in Bauer, Ndiaye AND a £20 mil striker, or did they only have £20 mil available in total to get all THREE and were being forced into having to bank on a loan for Ings or somet similar coming off?
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 17, 2018 14:15:15 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done. He did say they tried to sign a striker pity they didn't try a bit harder most of the teams around us managed to sign a striker, he needs to accept responsibility for our relegation good football man like fcuk he is.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 17, 2018 14:17:04 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done. I guess the question is ... did Scholes and Cartwright have £40 million available to get in Bauer, Ndiaye AND a £20 mil striker, or did they have £20 mil available in total to get all THREE and were having to bank on a loan for Ings or somet similar coming off? Possibly, but there were so many deficiencies in the squad at the time I think they just prioritised midfield and fullback areas and hoped to “get by” up front.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 17, 2018 14:18:34 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done. He did say they tried to sign a striker pity they didn't try a bit harder most of the teams around us managed to sign a striker, he needs to accept responsibility for our relegation good football man like fcuk he is. Yeah I don’t disagree at all. Even a Slimani type striker would have sufficed.
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Post by thegift on Apr 17, 2018 14:22:26 GMT
Playing devils advocate slightly, but let’s not forget that we did spend over £20 million in the January window on two players. Old man Coates did go on record as saying we were on the look out for a forward but couldn’t get a deal done. I guess the question is ... did Scholes and Cartwright have £40 million available to get in Bauer, Ndiaye AND a £20 mil striker, or did they only have £20 mil available in total to get all THREE and were being forced into having to bank on a loan for Ings or somet similar coming off? Even £60M would of probably broke even in the form of costings for premier league survival striker fee and relegation costs, so it still should of been done.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 17, 2018 14:24:18 GMT
I guess the question is ... did Scholes and Cartwright have £40 million available to get in Bauer, Ndiaye AND a £20 mil striker, or did they have £20 mil available in total to get all THREE and were having to bank on a loan for Ings or somet similar coming off? Possibly, but there were so many deficiencies in the squad at the time I think they just prioritised midfield and fullback areas and hoped to “get by” up front. That's the point though ... Scholes and Cartwright wouldn't want to just "get by" though would they? If they were given a budget of £20 mil and decided to spend it on Bauer, Ndiaye and a loan for Ings, then virtually everybody on this board would have backed Scholes and Cartwright in their decision but if they were given a budget of £40 million and they just simply fucked up the purchase of the striker, then they are fully culpable. People want somebody to blame, which is fair enough but without knowing the facts, people are just lashing out at Scholes and Cartwright, when it might actually be the Coates family who have failed with appropriate funding.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 17, 2018 14:29:35 GMT
Possibly, but there were so many deficiencies in the squad at the time I think they just prioritised midfield and fullback areas and hoped to “get by” up front. That's the point though ... Scholes and Cartwright wouldn't want to just "get by" though would they? If they were given a budget of £20 mil and decided to spend it on Bauer, Ndiaye and a loan for Ings, then virtually everybody on this board would have backed Scholes and Cartwright in their decision but if they were given a budget of £40 million and they just simply fucked up the purchase of the striker, then they are fully culpable. People want somebody to blame, which is fair enough but without knowing the facts, people are just lashing out Scholes and Cartwright, when it might actually be the Coates family who have failed with appropriate funding. Paul, the decision making at the club has been so diabolically poor over the last two years I have no idea what’s going on (or who to blame) anymore.
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 17, 2018 14:34:06 GMT
We will never truly know if signing a striker in January would have given us a better chance of survival - for every James Beattie there is a Daniel Sturridge at WBA this season - but we were crying out for reinforcements up front and simply could not afford to risk doing without another striker. 10m, 20m, whatever the cost, is looking damned cheap compared to the cost of our looming relegation. Someone somewhere, the chief bean counter, or the iron lady at BET365, did the sums and decided we could get by, we could wing it and survive until the summer with what we had.
I feel that Lambert has been unfairly punished for the wasted purchases of Hughes - well, we have 12m of striker sitting there in Berahino, so the new boss should get him to perform instead of spending yet more money. It seems to have come as a real surprise to the owners how far from fit for purpose Saido had become.
In a litany of bad decisions, this was the final one which consigned us to the drop, sealed our fate. Without a goalscorer in your team, it is hard to win football matches. Ask Lambert.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 17, 2018 14:39:59 GMT
That's the point though ... Scholes and Cartwright wouldn't want to just "get by" though would they? If they were given a budget of £20 mil and decided to spend it on Bauer, Ndiaye and a loan for Ings, then virtually everybody on this board would have backed Scholes and Cartwright in their decision but if they were given a budget of £40 million and they just simply fucked up the purchase of the striker, then they are fully culpable. People want somebody to blame, which is fair enough but without knowing the facts, people are just lashing out Scholes and Cartwright, when it might actually be the Coates family who have failed with appropriate funding. Paul, the decision making at the club has been so diabolically poor over the last two years I have no idea what’s going on (or who to blame) anymore. Me neither mate, me neither. You never know maybe Cartwright is telling the truth and he was indeed against the signing of Wimmer, maybe Wimmer's signing and those of Berahino and Imbula were 100% the request of Hughes and Cartwright's hands were tied. Maybe CARTWRIGHT was 100% the man responsible for the signings of Bauer and Ndiaye. Maybe Scholes went to the board and said that we needed another £20 mil to spend on a striker in January or we would really struggle but the family told him to do one and in their opinion, we already had enough strikers on the books and if he wanted another one then he'd have to go and find somebody on loan. We just DON'T KNOW who is responsible here do we? Cartwight and Scholes have become easy targets.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Apr 17, 2018 15:45:09 GMT
What if the strikers we approached did not want to sign due to our precarious position? We all know how well the sturridge signing has gone for the baggies and that's costing them a fucking fortune.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 17, 2018 18:33:18 GMT
Paul, the decision making at the club has been so diabolically poor over the last two years I have no idea what’s going on (or who to blame) anymore. Me neither mate, me neither. You never know maybe Cartwright is telling the truth and he was indeed against the signing of Wimmer, maybe Wimmer's signing and those of Berahino and Imbula were 100% the request of Hughes and Cartwright's hands were tied. Maybe CARTWRIGHT was 100% the man responsible for the signings of Bauer and Ndiaye. Maybe Scholes went to the board and said that we needed another £20 mil to spend on a striker in January or we would really struggle but the family told him to do one and in their opinion, we already had enough strikers on the books and if he wanted another one then he'd have to go and find somebody on loan. We just DON'T KNOW who is responsible here do we? Cartwight and Scholes have become easy targets. Your a name missing from your conundrum, have a look at the lambert signing photos
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 18, 2018 0:37:43 GMT
Me neither mate, me neither. You never know maybe Cartwright is telling the truth and he was indeed against the signing of Wimmer, maybe Wimmer's signing and those of Berahino and Imbula were 100% the request of Hughes and Cartwright's hands were tied. Maybe CARTWRIGHT was 100% the man responsible for the signings of Bauer and Ndiaye. Maybe Scholes went to the board and said that we needed another £20 mil to spend on a striker in January or we would really struggle but the family told him to do one and in their opinion, we already had enough strikers on the books and if he wanted another one then he'd have to go and find somebody on loan. We just DON'T KNOW who is responsible here do we? Cartwight and Scholes have become easy targets. Your a name missing from your conundrum, have a look at the lambert signing photos Enlighten me then Benji, you're not surely alluding to John Coates ... you don't consider him to be one of 'the family' then?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 18, 2018 18:27:55 GMT
Your a name missing from your conundrum, have a look at the lambert signing photos Enlighten me then Benji, you're not surely alluding to John Coates ... you don't consider him to be one of 'the family' then? Paul absolutely , he has a role in the transfer team and someone on there if Wallace is to be believed is out raking Cartwright .
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Post by Davef on Apr 18, 2018 18:38:06 GMT
Enlighten me then Benji, you're not surely alluding to John Coates ... you don't consider him to be one of 'the family' then? Paul absolutely , he has a role in the transfer team and someone on there if Wallace is to be believed is out raking Cartwright . Christ, you're hard work. The manager has the final say on transfers. Hughes wanted Wimmer and according to that article Cartwright thought it was a bad deal. For all the shit he gets, who was right here then? Put a new record on.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 18, 2018 18:41:53 GMT
So why could he care so much about stoke and refuse to buy a striker in the transfer window? We were absolutely crying out for one. £25M on a striker was going to cost less than relegation. A very succinct question. And in itself cristalises MANY questions that people would like answers to. 1. Is his/their heart in it as much as it's ever been? 2. Were the necessary (and this is the important word here) readies available to be spent on a striker in January or was the 'self-suficency' drum still being beaten? 3. If the answer to No. 2 is yes, then who is responsible for the failure to do so? If the answer to No. 2 is no and Scholes and Cartwright were having to operate within the constrains of self-sufficency, then fingers really need to be pointed at the family, rather than the gruesome twosome. I think you are making the assumption that Peter Coates understands football and what is required for a Premiership team to succeed Just because he is a big fan and has got loads of money doesnt mean he understands the needs of the team. His opinions are like anyone else's. He may genuinely have thought we dont need a striker. That was his opinion. You just have to read opinions on here to recognise how misguided they can be. He would have probably looked at the options Diouf, Crouch, Saido, Jese and Moting and thought that is easily enough as did many pundits.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 18, 2018 18:52:25 GMT
Paul absolutely , he has a role in the transfer team and someone on there if Wallace is to be believed is out raking Cartwright . Christ, you're hard work. The manager has the final say on transfers. Hughes wanted Wimmer and according to that article Cartwright thought it was a bad deal. For all the shit he gets, who was right here then? Put a new record on. If Hughes had the final say in transfers We would have bought Redmond , lemina , McGuire , soares , Delph naive in the extreme
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Post by Davef on Apr 18, 2018 18:56:20 GMT
Christ, you're hard work. The manager has the final say on transfers. Hughes wanted Wimmer and according to that article Cartwright thought it was a bad deal. For all the shit he gets, who was right here then? Put a new record on. If Hughes had the final say in transfers We would have bought Redmond , lemina , McGuire , soares , Delph naive in the extreme And those players have absolutely no say in who they sign for do they? You're in your own little bubble.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Apr 18, 2018 19:10:59 GMT
I don't think abuse is right but I do hope the Palace game is a what's all the fuss about theme with the Jese ambition video on the big screen .
They have fucked up big time . Probably not spent enough but what they have spent spent badly.
Having said that Coates coming back when we were struggling to stay in the championship not only stopped us from going lower but gave us some great times . He is 80 now and as others have said deserves criticism not abuse.
Seems he is guilty of cutting too much slack to his son Scholes and Cartwright from what I see.
Also abuse will piss Denise off and that's where the power lies really so unless you have a spare billionaire be careful.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 18, 2018 19:53:54 GMT
If Hughes had the final say in transfers We would have bought Redmond , lemina , McGuire , soares , Delph naive in the extreme And those players have absolutely no say in who they sign for do they? You're in your own little bubble. A bubble that had sufficient insight to predict what’s happened hughes was never the core issue , symptom yes but not the disease .
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Post by Davef on Apr 18, 2018 20:12:31 GMT
And those players have absolutely no say in who they sign for do they? You're in your own little bubble. A bubble that had sufficient insight to predict what’s happened hughes was never the core issue , symptom yes but not the disease . You've been predicting relegation for ten seasons!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 18, 2018 20:18:03 GMT
A bubble that had sufficient insight to predict what’s happened hughes was never the core issue , symptom yes but not the disease . You've been predicting relegation for ten seasons! Actually that’s not true but don’t let get that get in the way, stil as a bit of fun I’ll give you a points number for next season on deadline day and we can do a little spread bet for DLT , some on here are going to be doing their bit for DLT for challenging my points prediction in May so we can have another go next year .
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