|
Post by vahl on Apr 8, 2018 20:30:20 GMT
I'm just playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lets take Allen for example. Would we definitely lose him? He seems like a decent bloke not a money grabbing snake. He is probably on a fair wedge having come from Liverpool probably £60-70k. No top 6 side will want him. Very few mid table sides could afford him (unless he took a large pay cut). He is probably limited to an ambitious East End club but as a sensible bloke would he want to go there? It's highly unlikely we will have inserted relegation salary reduction clauses in any of our contracts. He will therefore be on top dollar whether we're in the Prem or not. He won't lose his Wales place whatever league he plays in. He might just decide to give it a season with us in the Champo to see if we bounce straight back up. The point I'm trying to make is we might not lose as many as we think bar the loans, Jack and Shaqiri. Even if we want to!! Whether that's a good thing remains to be seen. Back to Swansea LG? Can't see him staying. There are players that see themselves as Premiership players and won't drop a level unless no alternative Agree. Allen deserves to be plying his trade in the Premier League too. He is about as honest as they come for a footballer, I think most would say.
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 8, 2018 20:34:01 GMT
the chief executive is paid £1million a year to oversee the running of the club , to create the business plan , request the budget , manage the key functions , if he isn’t doing that’ what’s he doing for £1m a year , he was very quick to share the well run limelight , now that myth has exploded and its exposed as a shot show beyond comprehension on his watch where is he ? He carries out the owners plan, it's that simple. If you think it's up to him to dictate the budget then you're off your head pal. He’s on the board , it’s well known he runs the finances , he oversees transfers , lambert said exactly that , to say he is not accountable is utterly ridiculous , of course ultimately the owners set the budget but he is paid to run the club in their behalf and it’s a total shambles as witnessed by the managerial appointment saga where he was centre stage .
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 8, 2018 20:38:28 GMT
I'm just playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lets take Allen for example. Would we definitely lose him? He seems like a decent bloke not a money grabbing snake. He is probably on a fair wedge having come from Liverpool probably £60-70k. No top 6 side will want him. Very few mid table sides could afford him (unless he took a large pay cut). He is probably limited to an ambitious East End club but as a sensible bloke would he want to go there? It's highly unlikely we will have inserted relegation salary reduction clauses in any of our contracts. He will therefore be on top dollar whether we're in the Prem or not. He won't lose his Wales place whatever league he plays in. He might just decide to give it a season with us in the Champo to see if we bounce straight back up. The point I'm trying to make is we might not lose as many as we think bar the loans, Jack and Shaqiri. Even if we want to!! Whether that's a good thing remains to be seen. Back to Swansea LG? Can't see him staying. There are players that see themselves as Premiership players and won't drop a level unless no alternative I'm not certain Carvalhal would want him and could they afford him? That was the stumbling block before. It was why he came to us in the first place and didn't go back there. As I say I'm playing devils advocate because I think he'll go but there is a fairly compelling case against him moving.
|
|
|
Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 8, 2018 20:41:17 GMT
Back to Swansea LG? Can't see him staying. There are players that see themselves as Premiership players and won't drop a level unless no alternative I'm not certain Carvalhal would want him and could they afford him? That was the stumbling block before. It was why he came to us in the first place and didn't go back there. As I say I'm playing devils advocate because I think he'll go but there is a fairly compelling case against him moving. I'd love to see him stay, would be a huge asset, but I just don't think he'd fancy the Championship. Let's hope you're right though
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 8, 2018 20:52:36 GMT
He carries out the owners plan, it's that simple. If you think it's up to him to dictate the budget then you're off your head pal. He’s on the board , it’s well known he runs the finances , he oversees transfers , lambert said exactly that , to say he is not accountable is utterly ridiculous , of course ultimately the owners set the budget but he is paid to run the club in their behalf and it’s a total shambles as witnessed by the managerial appointment saga where he was centre stage . He runs the finances which are dictated to him by Coates like you've just stated so how is it Scholes' fault? If Coates was willing to spend more money on wages we'd be getting a higher quality of player. Yes, Scholes does the contracts but he can only work within the guidelines Coates gives him surely?! He can't for example just pay Mario Lemina what he wants if Coates won't allow it can he?! Was Scholes the reason we didn't get Flores? Really? We offered him a mega deal I think it was reported right? He didn't come for other reasons. I've already said Scholes is useless but I'm just telling you there are bigger contributing factors to our demise than him. It's simple, if Coates was willing to pay more money for wages we'd have a better team. If he wasn't so loyal to Hughes he would've been gone sooner. Like it or not, Coates and Hughes are the main reasons for this debacle. Then, with a piss poor budget you have to blame Carto for the players he's brought through the door. Again, Scholes does the contracts, he doesn't scout or coach the sodding players.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Apr 8, 2018 22:20:45 GMT
if the CEO is not responsible for recruiting the manager or the head of recruitment what exactly is he responsible for and what exactly is he being paid to do?
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Apr 8, 2018 22:31:48 GMT
He carries out the owners plan, it's that simple. If you think it's up to him to dictate the budget then you're off your head pal. He’s on the board , it’s well known he runs the finances , he oversees transfers , lambert said exactly that , to say he is not accountable is utterly ridiculous , of course ultimately the owners set the budget but he is paid to run the club in their behalf and it’s a total shambles as witnessed by the managerial appointment saga where he was centre stage . The time to have a real pop at Scholes is next season. If we are lumbered with a load of mega salaries with no conditional clause regarding relegation etc.
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Apr 8, 2018 22:36:51 GMT
if the CEO is not responsible for recruiting the manager or the head of recruitment what exactly is he responsible for and what exactly is he being paid to do? Contracts. General running of the Club and infrastructure. HR, PR, Making sure the set budget is aligned and adhered to. Cash flow under the auspices of the Financial Manager Well being and general management of all SCFC employees.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Apr 8, 2018 22:41:30 GMT
not sure there are many companies where the CEO is not making the key decisions around running the business...... You are describing an administative role not a seven figure salary one..
|
|
|
Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Apr 8, 2018 23:18:04 GMT
If we go down, the board and the owners have to bite the bullet and pay the price for our relegation. Their failures and mistakes will have put us in that position, and as a result they are responsible for putting it right. All added expenses are on their shoulders and they need to pay up to get us straight out of that league.
|
|
|
Post by ashleyscfc on Apr 9, 2018 0:06:31 GMT
It wasn't Tony Scholes who signed Kevin Wimmer, Berahino, Imbula etc. It also wasn't Tony Scholes who set the transfer and wage budget for incoming signings, that was of course the owner(s). Say what you like about Mr Scholes but Carto, Coates and Hughes are the biggest reasons for our demise. He's still useless though, clearly. Know that for a fact do you? Same Scholes that signed ndiaye and Bauer when we didn’t have a manager?
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 9, 2018 4:50:14 GMT
It wasn't Tony Scholes who signed Kevin Wimmer, Berahino, Imbula etc. It also wasn't Tony Scholes who set the transfer and wage budget for incoming signings, that was of course the owner(s). Say what you like about Mr Scholes but Carto, Coates and Hughes are the biggest reasons for our demise. He's still useless though, clearly. Know that for a fact do you? Same Scholes that signed ndiaye and Bauer when we didn’t have a manager? Scholes didn't sign them either all he does is negotiate the contracts, do you think he's the one that scouted them? It's been well documented Bauer was a Bowen signing and I'd suggest due to the fact we were linked with N'Diaye from the start of the window he was an old regime/Carto signing.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 5:47:36 GMT
Having seen how the Board effectively sleepwalked their way into relegation by being so out of touch with the seriousness of the situation I'm more than a little worried that they'll continue to be arrogant, complacent and incompetent enough to think that our squad is more than good enough for promotion with just minimal (cheap) additions in the summer.
A lot has been said about the fans informing the Board about our concerns and what we feel needs doing if we are to make a serious challenge for promotion, but how do we do this, and would the Board listen anyway ?
With reduced incoming funds in the Championship I can't see Coates suddenly turning on the tap again to try to build a promotion winning team.
|
|
|
Post by numpty40 on Apr 9, 2018 5:59:17 GMT
It wasn't Tony Scholes who signed Kevin Wimmer, Berahino, Imbula etc. It also wasn't Tony Scholes who set the transfer and wage budget for incoming signings, that was of course the owner(s). Say what you like about Mr Scholes but Carto, Coates and Hughes are the biggest reasons for our demise. He's still useless though, clearly. If he hasn't inserted relegation clauses into these players contracts then he is very culpable.
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Apr 9, 2018 6:17:08 GMT
Next season will be about stabilising I think- a top 10 finish and lay the foundations for a promotion push the year after. There's too much expensive dead wood in the squad. Stabilise???? Not meaning to be disrepectul but I’m expecting ( I can’t demand) an absolute attempt and assault (on Championship rivals) to be back in the Premier League within 12 months. Anything less and it’s good bye to Peter Coates and co after almost 55 years and being a season ticket holder since 74 If they are business leaders now more than ever is the time to prove it With the dog's dinner of a squad that we've got? I think you're massively underestimating how competitive The Championship is. Look at what's happened to the 3 teams who went down last year- only Middlesbrough have come close to mounting a promotion challenge.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Apr 9, 2018 6:23:08 GMT
Stabilise???? Not meaning to be disrepectul but I’m expecting ( I can’t demand) an absolute attempt and assault (on Championship rivals) to be back in the Premier League within 12 months. Anything less and it’s good bye to Peter Coates and co after almost 55 years and being a season ticket holder since 74 If they are business leaders now more than ever is the time to prove it With the dog's dinner of a squad that we've got? I think you're massively underestimating how competitive The Championship is. Look at what's happened to the 3 teams who went down last year- only Middlesbrough have come close to mounting a promotion challenge. True but look at Sunderland's squad from last August. We should be in a far better state than that. Top ten should be a given at the very least.
|
|
|
Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Apr 9, 2018 6:28:23 GMT
Agree with all of what the OP said. I can't wait to see our young wannabe hooligans at places like Birmingham away. It will be comedy gold 😂
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 6:48:21 GMT
Mary’s management style. Big and hungry, with pace and desire up front, along with a good sense of humour.....moist in the middle and no soggy bottoms at the back
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 7:04:24 GMT
I've got very little expectation for next season. Whether we stay up or, more likely, go down.
Will I be galled to see the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, Swansea, and Burnley playing at a level above us?
Will I be a little annoyed, to see Wolves & Cardiff, looking down on us from their lofty perch?
Will I be titsed to watch one of our better players, who we'd like to keep ideally, being courted by one of the promoted sides?
Am I looking forward to seeing my club's progress throughout the season being televised on "Quest"?
Shock isn't the word, I think I'm in awe at the complete and utter rank mismanagement that's been allowed to unfold, for the last couple of years, culminating in one of the lowest points in our recent history, and it's happened 'on the watch' of the owners of one of the world's biggest betting companies.
Incredible. I'm off to renew my S/T.
|
|
cbwhu
Academy Starlet
Posts: 155
|
Post by cbwhu on Apr 9, 2018 8:53:00 GMT
If we go into the Championship with this nonsense approach of penny pinching and being cute then we will sail straight through. Make no mistake. Good, honest investment in younger players with potential to play in the Premier League alongside top Championship players, whilst retaining the best players possible is the way to go, but you will be talking big money. I have my doubts that the hunger is there from the owners to do it, and if it was, I have bigger doubts in the drive and ability of those people around them. top championship players cost 15m and up nowadays is the problem there
|
|
cbwhu
Academy Starlet
Posts: 155
|
Post by cbwhu on Apr 9, 2018 9:34:20 GMT
I don't agree we are in a downward spiral despite inevitable relegation this season. We'll keep Grant, Edwards, Bauer, Shawcross, Bruno, Ndiaye, Cameron and Diouf and hopefully Bojan can come back and sprinkle a little magic in a lower league. There is a spine to rebuild the team around. Some cute signings could see us challenging straight back but I'm not sure any of the youngsters are ready to step up yet with the exception of maybe Campbell who we paid £750.000 for. Begs the question as to whether there is a need to throw money at an academy when there is so little fruition. I'm just playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lets take Allen for example. Would we definitely lose him? He seems like a decent bloke not a money grabbing snake. He is probably on a fair wedge having come from Liverpool probably £60-70k. No top 6 side will want him. Very few mid table sides could afford him (unless he took a large pay cut). He is probably limited to an ambitious East End club but as a sensible bloke would he want to go there? It's highly unlikely we will have inserted relegation salary reduction clauses in any of our contracts. He will therefore be on top dollar whether we're in the Prem or not. He won't lose his Wales place whatever league he plays in. He might just decide to give it a season with us in the Champo to see if we bounce straight back up. The point I'm trying to make is we might not lose as many as we think bar the loans, Jack and Shaqiri. Even if we want to!! Whether that's a good thing remains to be seen. Seems increasingly likely we will be signing Tom Cairney from Fulham For 20m, which shows you that the chances of cherry picking the best championship players is unlikely for a relegated side nowadays
|
|
|
Post by thestatusquo on Apr 9, 2018 9:40:02 GMT
I’ve been watching the Championship on c5 this season and it’s a pretty good standard. Unless there is some major investment I can’t see us bouncing straight back
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 9, 2018 9:42:56 GMT
It wasn't Tony Scholes who signed Kevin Wimmer, Berahino, Imbula etc. It also wasn't Tony Scholes who set the transfer and wage budget for incoming signings, that was of course the owner(s). Say what you like about Mr Scholes but Carto, Coates and Hughes are the biggest reasons for our demise. He's still useless though, clearly. If he hasn't inserted relegation clauses into these players contracts then he is very culpable. Yeah that's entirely up to him, for sure.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie on Apr 9, 2018 9:48:37 GMT
Stabilise???? Not meaning to be disrepectul but I’m expecting ( I can’t demand) an absolute attempt and assault (on Championship rivals) to be back in the Premier League within 12 months. Anything less and it’s good bye to Peter Coates and co after almost 55 years and being a season ticket holder since 74 If they are business leaders now more than ever is the time to prove it As I've mentioned on a previous post. In the event of relegation I would be very content to finish a solid eighth next season in the Championship. Stabilise and take stock. With total respect. That’s accepting 2nd best. We should lead an absolute charge for promotion and blow others out of the water if we go down Anything less will totally unsatisfactory from a supporters point of view
|
|
|
Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 9, 2018 9:52:39 GMT
not sure there are many companies where the CEO is not making the key decisions around running the business...... You are describing an administative role not a seven figure salary one.. From what we can see publicly it looks like the board is mainly responsible for recruitment of non-playing staff. Cartwright PLUS Manager is responsible for recruitment of playing staff with the board having an input. Scholes is responsible for negotiation of contracts (both players and non-playing staff) It looks like all major decisions are really made by the board - and when I say the board, the power really lies with Peter & John Coates. Scholes has some input of course, but seems like he just helps decide if Peter & John have a difference of opinion. Im not Scholes fan at all, but basically hes a glorified pencil pusher. All the mistakes have come from the board (Coates family) and recruitment (Cartwright & Hughes). Whether that justifies earning a million a year is another matter
|
|
|
Post by Ygor on Apr 9, 2018 10:20:43 GMT
Does anybody really know who does what at Stoke city?
No one seems to take responsibility for anything other than things regarded as successful. No one at the club is willing to tell you exactly how the likes of Wimmer, Imbula, or any recruited player are brought in, what due diligence involves, what budgets are in place, etc. Everyone is able to hide behind a wall of mystery, presumably so no one gets singled out for blame or, God forbid, gets sacked!
In the absence of transparency, I have to assume collective responsibility. On that basis I can't see things improving until the infrastructure of the club is overhauled, certain people are sacked and replaced with quality recruits, and appropriate investment is provided to support a PL club (or a prospective PL club). I'd have thought Bet365 have the necessary resources but doubt their willingness to indulge. And since Bet365 is a family affair where elements of the family are in control at SCFC, I'm not sure I see light at the end of the tunnel.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 9, 2018 10:22:18 GMT
I'm just playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lets take Allen for example. Would we definitely lose him? He seems like a decent bloke not a money grabbing snake. He is probably on a fair wedge having come from Liverpool probably £60-70k. No top 6 side will want him. Very few mid table sides could afford him (unless he took a large pay cut). He is probably limited to an ambitious East End club but as a sensible bloke would he want to go there? It's highly unlikely we will have inserted relegation salary reduction clauses in any of our contracts. He will therefore be on top dollar whether we're in the Prem or not. He won't lose his Wales place whatever league he plays in. He might just decide to give it a season with us in the Champo to see if we bounce straight back up. The point I'm trying to make is we might not lose as many as we think bar the loans, Jack and Shaqiri. Even if we want to!! Whether that's a good thing remains to be seen. Seems increasingly likely we will be signing Tom Cairney from Fulham For 20m, which shows you that the chances of cherry picking the best championship players is unlikely for a relegated side nowadays ???? I think you must have quoted the wrong post mate. I don't mention cherry picking championship players generally or Cairney specifically. I've no idea who he is.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie on Apr 9, 2018 10:30:38 GMT
Stabilise???? Not meaning to be disrepectul but I’m expecting ( I can’t demand) an absolute attempt and assault (on Championship rivals) to be back in the Premier League within 12 months. Anything less and it’s good bye to Peter Coates and co after almost 55 years and being a season ticket holder since 74 If they are business leaders now more than ever is the time to prove it With the dog's dinner of a squad that we've got? I think you're massively underestimating how competitive The Championship is. Look at what's happened to the 3 teams who went down last year- only Middlesbrough have come close to mounting a promotion challenge. I’m not underestimating the Championship. However I “expect” the clubs owners to see the errors of their transfer policy (fiasco) and release sufficient funds to “go for it big style”.
|
|
cbwhu
Academy Starlet
Posts: 155
|
Post by cbwhu on Apr 9, 2018 10:31:47 GMT
Seems increasingly likely we will be signing Tom Cairney from Fulham For 20m, which shows you that the chances of cherry picking the best championship players is unlikely for a relegated side nowadays ???? I think you must have quoted the wrong post mate. I don't mention cherry picking championship players generally or Cairney specifically. I've no idea who he is. He plays the same position as Allen was my points
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 9, 2018 10:33:11 GMT
???? I think you must have quoted the wrong post mate. I don't mention cherry picking championship players generally or Cairney specifically. I've no idea who he is. He plays the same position as Allen was my points Ah OK. Bit random.
|
|