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Post by thegift on Dec 28, 2017 14:03:08 GMT
With the latest signing for Liverpool going at £75M, the highest transfer for a defender in the entire history of football from a team thats leaked goals left right and centre all season.
For me the league is now finished. It's not exciting anymore. The gap between top to bottom is a joke. The bottom teams are happily acceping 1, or 2-0 defeats as they already know they have lost the game before they have started.
Man city have already won the league, swansea are very likely to go down and its half way through the season. Tackles have gone out of the game anymore, no rivalry, no passion, nothing.
For me, the big clubs are not football teams anymore, they are brands with business plans. They get so much money from playing UCL football its sickening.
Why would man united want to play burnley, when they could play real madrid on Saturday, Barcelona the next etc etc. Ask yourself is the premier league really that exciting? I'd say no, the odd fixture yes, but who really sits at home as a neutral and looks forward to man city v swansea?
I used to be against a europa super league, but now i believe this is the way forward, get rid of all top 5 teams out the premier league, and lets start making it competitive again. Caps on wages, caps on transfers and lets make it a working mans game. Cap ticket prices at £20 all over.
Its got out of hand already, and maybe were too late to stop it, but eventually there will be a crash. There needs to be one for this absolute farce of £100M's being thrown around like hot cakes on pretty much every signing.
Rugby have got the game under control, they keep it exciting with a play off system in every league every year. The aim of finishing 1st is if you get knocked out of the playoffs you get a second chance. Everyone else has one chance and its a knockout system. Anyone in the top 6 can be crowned champions. That would keep the league going to the end.
Do you honestly go and ENJOY man city v stoke, Chelsea v stoke 99 times out of 100? Whilst your heart says yes, your head is probably a no.
Interesting to hear some thoughts on this.
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Post by muglump on Dec 28, 2017 14:07:14 GMT
Won't be fixed till the telly bubble bursts, which it will. Trouble is that'd sink lower table clubs whilst keeping the trillionaires on top. No, I don't enjoy it and frankly nowadays don't care what happens in the league unless it affects us. It's got like watching the harlem bloody globetrotter when man city play and that isn't exciting for anybody. I doubt fiddling with the format would make much difference, we all know who the top six would be
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 28, 2017 14:09:07 GMT
Totally agree
But we've got a competitive league full of big teams it's called the championship and almost everybody on this board don't wish us to be in it
Which is why football is pretty much fucked
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Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 14:22:45 GMT
Won't be fixed till the telly bubble bursts, which it will. Trouble is that'd sink lower table clubs whilst keeping the trillionaires on top. No, I don't enjoy it and frankly nowadays don't care what happens in the league unless it affects us. It's got like watching the harlem bloody globetrotter when man city play and that isn't exciting for anybody. I doubt fiddling with the format would make much difference, we all know who the top six would be The TV model is already about to burst but the product will reappear in a different form. The present TV model involves providers such as Sky, Fox, NBC, ESPN etc. buying the rights from the PL to show the games and then selling the games to the distributors, which in many cases they already own. These companies are middle men or wholesalers, which will be eliminated over time as the PL figures out a way to sell the product directly to the consumers via the internet. In the US, there have been channels owned by the NFL, NBA, MLB etc for some time, which you can access either through the internet or via satellite or cable. There are also channels owned by teams that distribute content directly to consumers. It won’t be very long before the PL does the same. We already have channels owned by Chelsea and The Shit. Eliminating the middle men will decrease costs significantly which means even more money will flow into the game, not less. One of the interesting questions in the UK, is what will happen to the requirement to purchase a TV license if you own a TV, when everybody is watching on a computer or tablet, especially when they are cheaper than TVs to buy. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 14:27:02 GMT
I'm sure this argument raged when the Premier League was conceived 20 odd years ago.
Traditionalists bemoaned the now top 20 clubs had endless funds which the 1st and lower divisions could not compete
The problem for teams like us just being here was a dream, the promised land. Now we're here, after several years of mid-table stability, what's left?
Within a few games we realise that the next level dream of being this season's Leicester won't be happening, indeed it has the air of being a relegation battle.
It reminds me of JG Ballard's Cocaine Nights where we're all bored after years of being endlessly entertained...perhaps a flirtation with "disaster" might make us appreciate it more 😬
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Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 14:27:17 GMT
A very Stokecentric view of the Premier League, its a good product. 15.40 at Leicester racecourse Leicestershire bronze fox handicap hurdle this afternoon. Wonder why we don't know what won it last year, because nobody cares. Handicapping and manufactured sport has no credibility or lasting value. You need to come to terms with the fact that we are not at the top table but its not a closed shop. Man City, Chelsea and Spurs have all broken into the elite only in recent years that's aside from Leicester winning the title. Our owners don't want to compete in the money league but I'm pretty certain they don't want to get their snouts out of the trough either. Just because our owners won't put the money in to get us competing at the top you seem to want to prevent other clubs owners from doing it so they're the same or similar to us and you can be excited that's just fake sport.
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Post by jaybee on Dec 28, 2017 14:34:16 GMT
They get so much money from playing UCL football its sickening. UCL??? I used to be against a europa super league, but now i believe this is the way forward, get rid of all top 5 teams out the premier league Agree Fook them all off in a super league with subscription TV, subscription newspaper etc, then maybe we could all ignore them at our leisure!  |
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Post by draytonstokie on Dec 28, 2017 14:39:27 GMT
Is it ruined? Probably it certainly bares absolutely no resemblance to a Football League Competion as we once new them. Whilst the few rich clubs simply keep getting more wealthy by being more successful breeding more success through Champions League riches the remainder of the PL are simply playing for the rest of the places with the caveat that no one team can realistically afford to,be relegated unless they can do a Newcastle and come straight backup again. The gaps just keep getting wider hence a price tag of 75million for a player who has yet to prove his ability at a high level. I cannot see it ending until the franchise model changes which I sincerely hope will be soon. In the mean time half a dozen clubs simply get more wealthy and widen the gap between those that have riches those that are wealth and those that are well run.
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Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 14:41:56 GMT
Is it ruined? Probably it certainly bares absolutely no resemblance to a Football League Competion as we once new them. Whilst the few rich clubs simply keep getting more wealthy by being more successful breeding more success through Champions League riches the remainder of the PL are simply playing for the rest of the places with the caveat that no one team can realistically afford to,be relegated unless they can do a Newcastle and come straight backup again. The gaps just keep getting wider hence a price tag of 75million for a player who has yet to prove his ability at a high level. I cannot see it ending until the franchise model changes which I sincerely hope will be soon. In the mean time half a dozen clubs simply get more wealthy and widen the gap between those that have riches those that are wealth and those that are well run. I'm interested in your concept of which clubs are well run and which aren't please enlighten me if only for a laugh. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 14:46:53 GMT
The fact that Leicester won it recently proves it is not impossible so no, it’s not ruined, it’s no different than it has been for the last 15-20 years.
If anything is ruined it’s the champions league, and that’s due to there been no free coverage on TV anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 14:55:44 GMT
I wrote an article a while back about falling out of love with football
its definitely happening to me - slowly but surely
and compettion at a fair level is so badly distorted by money
there's just no romance anymore
and, that's what made our 92 club league system so special
there was elitesim - always was but, the money flowed through our league system more fairly
So much of that has gone for me
you just hope and live for the occasional shock result
and, we have been very fortunate to see Stoke City in the very top flight if, only for a while
(something id never thought id see ever again )
and like my older brother, I have become reduced to rejoicing when the likes of United, Citeh, liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea et al, fall on their arses and fail.
or smiling inside when the likes of Leicester and / or Burnley baulk the trend
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Dec 28, 2017 14:59:39 GMT
It's always been mostly like this.
These are the gaps the winners won the league by:
2016-17 Chelsea 7
2015-16 Leicester 10
2014-15 Chelsea 8
2013-14 Man City 2
2012-13 Man United 11
2011-12 Man City 0 (GD)
2010-11 Man United 9
2009-10 Chelsea 1
2008-09 Man United 4
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Post by richie22 on Dec 28, 2017 15:02:35 GMT
I think the premier league has been dead for years, look at our place atmosphere has steadily died over the last few years irrespective of the game in hand. All forms of media driving a constant stream of bullshit, ramping up transfers with bs , look at Sam allerdyce and his merry dance with Everton , Everton sack koeman, don’t want allerdyce. Don’t even approach him, allerdyce courts the red tops and rules himself out very publicly, the media then begin to convince Everton that they’re up shit street and need him . Eventually Everton give in and allerdyce is back in the game not long after the same media hounded him out of a job for dirty tricks ( ones where he didn’t do that much wrong)
The players and agents have a lot to answer for, I’d say for every 100 players in the prem 50 are stealing a living and so to there many leaches think our very own marko, sammy bang bang etc etc . Tv money has made our game the envy of the world the fact the FA and co are prostitutes to the pound notes means many a shady man from lands afar is drawn to the prem, fit and proper test my arse, have you got money ‘YES’ which club do you want, think the former Leeds owner, Man City owner, charlton , Blackpool etc etc etc. Sadly the fans also buy into this , just recently we’ve had many on here calling for an end to the Coates family tenure, some in jest sadly some were deadly serious . Give me a stable well ran club with honest owners any day over rock n roll football ran by kamikazes.. I give you the great arsenal and it’s owners, ain’t one of them heavily linked to a shady loan that’s used to by everton. Nothing done !!!! The premier league is genuinely broken I believe what draws the crowd of football tourists and fans is a small modicum of entertainment , let’s be honest only about a third of the teams currently going in the league can genuinely entertain you... if you want a good game with some blood and thunder and entertainment go to the championship and lower leagues
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Dec 28, 2017 15:16:03 GMT
Should have been much more regulations when it comes to salaries, transfers, ticket prizes, ownership etc.
It’ll end up supporting a company more than a Football Club.
It’s heading in the wrong direction and have done that for quite a while.
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Post by stokeyank on Dec 28, 2017 15:25:26 GMT
Would love to see a Euro super league, but with some structure that a few "non super league teams" could qualify for that league each year, sort of like a champions league for a whole season. Not sure it could work though with so many country based leagues but it would keep a nice carrot out there for the winner of some leagues.
I fully admit that as a "newer" fan, I am a Stoke man because of the TV deals and the old working man's game that many are (understandably) longing for would have kept me away simply due to access. Sure, we have MLS and it's improving, but it's still not the standard you see in most European leagues each week. But with streaming services and individual clubs being able to offer access, I think the super league would bring back some of the old passion to smaller clubs and still allow the "global fan" to still follow their team. Because I am going nowhere!
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Post by Sfance on Dec 28, 2017 15:32:09 GMT
Absolutely. The Championship is a far far better game. And if Hughes stays much longer that’s where we’re going.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2017 15:39:04 GMT
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 28, 2017 15:41:29 GMT
I'm perfectly happy for the rich clubs to leave .
The problem comes from the owners who are happy to spend so much . Prices and wages go up and players seem less motivated .
Still they have a few years left on the far East TV money to milk
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Post by thegift on Dec 28, 2017 18:01:50 GMT
They get so much money from playing UCL football its sickening. UCL??? I used to be against a europa super league, but now i believe this is the way forward, get rid of all top 5 teams out the premier league Agree Fook them all off in a super league with subscription TV, subscription newspaper etc, then maybe we could all ignore them at our leisure! Uefa Champions League mate |
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Post by Mendicant on Dec 28, 2017 18:15:14 GMT
Football attracts all sorts of opinions, but I've never heard the Bundesliga referred to as Mickey Mouse, unless I've not been paying attention. |
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Post by scfc75 on Dec 28, 2017 19:17:04 GMT
There are effectively 3 leagues...
Man City... The other 'big 5'... Everybody else.
You could always rely on a fair few upsets ('big 6' losing to a lesser team) but this season we've had just 7 examples so far out of 200 games. Or roughly 1 upset every third week:
Chelsea 2 Burnley 3
Stoke 1 Arsenal 0
Palace 2 Chelsea 1
Watford 2 Arsenal 1
Huddersfield 2 Man Utd 1
Leicester 2 Spurs 1
West Ham 1 Chelsea 0
The battle for 3 Champions League places is competitive, and the battle to not be one of the shittest 3 is competitive (poor quality, but competitive in that it's hard to predict who might beat who). But as a spectacle for an outsider I imagine it's a bit meh.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 19:19:03 GMT
Would love to see a Euro super league, but with some structure that a few "non super league teams" could qualify for that league each year, sort of like a champions league for a whole season. Not sure it could work though with so many country based leagues but it would keep a nice carrot out there for the winner of some leagues. I fully admit that as a "newer" fan, I am a Stoke man because of the TV deals and the old working man's game that many are (understandably) longing for would have kept me away simply due to access. Sure, we have MLS and it's improving, but it's still not the standard you see in most European leagues each week. But with streaming services and individual clubs being able to offer access, I think the super league would bring back some of the old passion to smaller clubs and still allow the "global fan" to still follow their team. Because I am going nowhere! Be careful what you ask for. This is wave of the future (unfortunately) with one notable exception: there will be no promotion or relegation - imagine the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB where the bottom teams are relegated and the best minor league franchises are promoted. The owners will never go for it. The American system is designed to create parity between the teams because this makes the majority of games closer. This is achieved by a strict salary cap, enforcement of contracts, the college draft and a more even distribution of TV money. Once this European super-league is created, you never see Stoke on TV again. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 19:26:26 GMT
I put a large portion of blame on the lower teams. There are 12 teams in the league who set up to defend first and nick a shite goal (us included, except we can't do it well).
Can you imagine a team coming up from the Championship next season and playing like Swansea did in 2012? Or a team taking it to admittedly worse Man United and Man City sides like we did in 2015/16? Even Bournemouth used to go for it. It's a league full of teams that are so shit scared of going down they daren't try and win a game.
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Post by armitagestokie on Dec 28, 2017 19:37:24 GMT
I've had a season ticket for many years but for the 1st time I'm considering leaving. Why should I contribute to players wages when there is no excitement anymore.Last night Newcastle V Man City parked the bus as they didn't want a high score battering. I come to see my team play their hearts out and battle, but with at least 8 home games this doesn't happen as we don't want to get battered. Utd want over 300 mill to strengthen, Liverpool want to pay 75 mill for a defender scared that Man city might pinch him!! I come to see Stoke and not the opposition but the big boys are killing the enjoyment for me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 19:41:12 GMT
I've had a season ticket for many years but for the 1st time I'm considering leaving. Why should I contribute to players wages when there is no excitement anymore.Last night Newcastle V Man City parked the bus as they didn't want a high score battering. I come to see my team play their hearts out and battle, but with at least 8 home games this doesn't happen as we don't want to get battered. Utd want over 300 mill to strengthen, Liverpool want to pay 75 mill for a defender scared that Man city might pinch him!! I come to see Stoke and not the opposition but the big boys are killing the enjoyment for me. If it helps your money makes absolutely no difference to the players at all. Nothing to do with the big boys, the little teams are too shit scared to go for it. Man City have a woeful defence and not one side has tried to punish them for it, however likely it is you'd get pasted, I'd take that over hoping for a 1-0 loss. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 28, 2017 19:52:04 GMT
Would be interested to know whether viewing figures and Sky Sports subscriptions have gone down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 20:17:54 GMT
I blame the moment when the shit were let off the FA cup
GD
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Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 28, 2017 20:32:05 GMT
Absolutely. The Championship is a far far better game. And if Hughes stays much longer that’s where we’re going. My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model. |
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Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 20:41:25 GMT
Absolutely. The Championship is a far far better game. And if Hughes stays much longer that’s where we’re going. My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model. I honestly think if you stop having aspiration you will go into an uncontrollable tailspin, what's the point in winning the Championship if you don't wan't to be in the Premier League and how hard would you strive for something you are not desperate to achieve. I think maybe our owners DNA is becoming our biggest handicap. Time to pass the baton on to someone who is hungry for success Mr Coates. |
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Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:24:04 GMT
Absolutely. The Championship is a far far better game. And if Hughes stays much longer that’s where we’re going. My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model.Presumably the Coates family is waiting to cash in on their investment. Everything is for sale if the price is right. The question is how long will the family stay invested once the old man is no longer around. Could be very good or could be very bad if or when they chose to sell. |
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