|
Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 21:26:33 GMT
My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model.Presumably the Coates family is waiting to cash in on their investment. Everything is for sale if the price is right. The question is how long will the family stay invested once the old man is no longer around. Could be very good or could be very bad if or when they chose to sell. Please explain how it could be worse.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 21:26:52 GMT
It's been this uncompetitive for a while, it's just now relative upstarts Man City are benefitting from the billions and people don't like it
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 21:28:20 GMT
It's been this uncompetitive for a while, it's just now relative upstarts Man City are benefitting from the billions and people don't like it But surely that just proves the point that its not a closed shop.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:28:38 GMT
Presumably the Coates family is waiting to cash in on their investment. Everything is for sale if the price is right. The question is how long will the family stay invested once the old man is no longer around. Could be very good or could be very bad if or when they chose to sell. Please explain how it could be worse. Two consecutive seasons of relegation? Dreadful football. No chance of winning anything. Vale better than Stoke.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:30:48 GMT
It's been this uncompetitive for a while, it's just now relative upstarts Man City are benefitting from the billions and people don't like it Man City are anything but relative upstarts. In years gone by they have been in higher divisions than the Shit and better to watch.
|
|
|
Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 28, 2017 21:32:18 GMT
My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model. I honestly think if you stop having aspiration you will go into an uncontrollable tailspin, what's the point in winning the Championship if you don't wan't to be in the Premier League and how hard would you strive for something you are not desperate to achieve. I think maybe our owners DNA is becoming our biggest handicap. Time to pass the baton on to someone who is hungry for success Mr Coates. Yes your right regards aspiration. Its a never ending up hill battle in the Premier league though. The only alternative is to separate out the top 5,6 or 7 into a Euro super league like others have said on here.
|
|
|
Post by StokieNath on Dec 28, 2017 21:33:18 GMT
The premier league is indeed ruined and I can't wait for it to die.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 21:34:48 GMT
Please explain how it could be worse. Two consecutive seasons of relegation? Dreadful football. No chance of winning anything. Vale better than Stoke. Seems like you're describing an investor making a massive investment then flushing it down the bog not sure I can think of a reason why they'd do that.
|
|
|
Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 28, 2017 21:35:45 GMT
My view is Stoke and us as supporters would be better off in the Championship. Every game would be a real contest and we would have the realistic possibility of winning the league we are in. In reality are playing like a Championship team - probably a mid table one at that at the moment. It will be a fact that even to be in the Premier league - vast sums will need to be spent. That is not wise unless you bring in millions from commercial activity and have a global presence. Our owners DNA is certainly adverse to this model.Presumably the Coates family is waiting to cash in on their investment. Everything is for sale if the price is right. The question is how long will the family stay invested once the old man is no longer around. Could be very good or could be very bad if or when they chose to sell. Yes you have Peter and John and Stoke in one hand and Bet365 interests in the other. Its complex. Would Bet365 be interested with us in the Championship? There are no easy answers.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 21:37:40 GMT
I honestly think if you stop having aspiration you will go into an uncontrollable tailspin, what's the point in winning the Championship if you don't wan't to be in the Premier League and how hard would you strive for something you are not desperate to achieve. I think maybe our owners DNA is becoming our biggest handicap. Time to pass the baton on to someone who is hungry for success Mr Coates. Yes your right regards aspiration. Its a never ending up hill battle in the Premier league though. The only alternative is to separate out the top 5,6 or 7 into a Euro super league like others have said on here. Same as most everything else in life is a never ending uphill battle but we don't start taking it in turns to be chief executive of BP do we. Why can't people seem to cope with others being better and more successful than we are that's life.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:44:36 GMT
Two consecutive seasons of relegation? Dreadful football. No chance of winning anything. Vale better than Stoke. Seems like you're describing an investor making a massive investment then flushing it down the bog not sure I can think of a reason why they'd do that. Maybe. I am not sure what the total investment of the Coates family in the club is because it would be very difficult to quantify. I am assuming that most of the cash they put into the club is funneled through the BET365 advertising budget, so it’s actually a business expense not a direct cash investment. The Coates family are bookies so they understand ROI better than most.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:46:18 GMT
Yes your right regards aspiration. Its a never ending up hill battle in the Premier league though. The only alternative is to separate out the top 5,6 or 7 into a Euro super league like others have said on here. Same as most everything else in life is a never ending uphill battle but we don't start taking it in turns to be chief executive of BP do we. Why can't people seem to cope with others being better and more successful than we are that's life. Agreed. Unless you’re the lead dog the view is always the same - looking up somebody else’s arse.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 21:49:18 GMT
Presumably the Coates family is waiting to cash in on their investment. Everything is for sale if the price is right. The question is how long will the family stay invested once the old man is no longer around. Could be very good or could be very bad if or when they chose to sell. Yes you have Peter and John and Stoke in one hand and Bet365 interests in the other. Its complex. Would Bet365 be interested with us in the Championship? There are no easy answers. They’d probably cash in and cut their losses. The name would disappear from the Stoke’s stadium and from the shirts, but it would still flash around the advertising hoardings at every televised match (together with annoying little dog).
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 28, 2017 21:55:39 GMT
Seems like you're describing an investor making a massive investment then flushing it down the bog not sure I can think of a reason why they'd do that. Maybe. I am not sure what the total investment of the Coates family in the club is because it would be very difficult to quantify. I am assuming that most of the cash they put into the club is funneled through the BET365 advertising budget, so it’s actually a business expense not a direct cash investment. The Coates family are bookies so they understand ROI better than most. Don't see that as part of the investment to be honest they're not over paying for it so they're just buying advertising and market placement. The rest of the investment is in the £120M region which they should be able to see a healthy profit on if they sell. Its decision time for them if they carry on as they are animosity will grow just like Ashley at Newcastle.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2017 22:05:17 GMT
Maybe. I am not sure what the total investment of the Coates family in the club is because it would be very difficult to quantify. I am assuming that most of the cash they put into the club is funneled through the BET365 advertising budget, so it’s actually a business expense not a direct cash investment. The Coates family are bookies so they understand ROI better than most. Don't see that as part of the investment to be honest they're not over paying for it so they're just buying advertising and market placement. The rest of the investment is in the £120M region which they should be able to see a healthy profit on if they sell. Its decision time for them if they carry on as they are animosity will grow just like Ashley at Newcastle. I agree. That’s my point. I think STFC is actually PC’s hobby that gives him something to do while the family is running BET365. A bit like Trump and presidency only on a smaller scale.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 22:51:38 GMT
With all the money in the world Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City still don't have a better keeper than us.
The gap between the rich and the so called poor of the premiership should be closing not widening. It's the owners of the lesser teams that are not spending to keep pace. We are the 39th richest club IN THE WORLD . Does anyone even the most deluded think we have the 39th best team in the world.
You need two teams of top quality players to play in the Prem and in CL or Europa FACT.
We haven't got one with everyone fully fit. FACT.
That's why people are dishartened because teams like us are balking at the money needed to compete. It's 100 million for a top 6 club striker and we cry at spending 12 million. We should be spending 30-40 million on a star striker and the cheapest player in our squad should be valued at 15-20 million we finished 9th 3 times in a row and have had the money . We just keep pissing it up the wall on crocks, old men and bad attitudes. We take the cheap gamble player every time.
Well look at Liverpool since we dicked them 6-1, spent a lot of money and are getting the results. Doesn't always work, needs a team that know a player and where to play him. But that's why you pay big money for a top manager and his behind the scenes team.
Biggest problem is making our club attractive enough for decent players to want to come here. Rugby team and open corner stadium hardly did that did they? But many deluded idiots on here wanted that again. Stepping backwards to a Championship side is not the answer. Consolidation in the prem is, but we have to pay the going rate to do it, it simply can't be done on the cheap and the fabled next step can't be done in a few year. It has to be EVERY aspect of the club gradually improving and I'm sorry but the cheap option players we've taken in the last two seasons have hurt us badly. We haven't even replaced like with like never mind improve.
N'Zonzi (sold) not replaced, Arni (Sold) not replaced, Bojan (career changing injury) not replaced Huth (sold) not replaced add in a few seasoned pros like Bardsley, Walters, Whelan who certainly have not been improved upon and people wonder why we're struggling.just LOL.
|
|
|
Post by thegift on Dec 28, 2017 22:56:20 GMT
With all the money in the world Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City still don't have a better keeper than us. The gap between the rich and the so called poor of the premiership should be closing not widening. It's the owners of the lesser teams that are not spending to keep pace. We are the 39th richest club IN THE WORLD . Does anyone even the most deluded think we have the 39th best team in the world. You need two teams of top quality players to play in the Prem and in CL or Europa FACT. We haven't got one with everyone fully fit. FACT. That's why people are dishartened because teams like us are balking at the money needed to compete. It's 100 million for a top 6 club striker and we cry at spending 12 million. We should be spending 30-40 million on a star striker and the cheapest player in our squad should be valued at 15-20 million we finished 9th 3 times in a row and have had the money . We just keep pissing it up the wall on crocks, old men and bad attitudes. We take the cheap gamble player every time. Well look at Liverpool since we dicked them 6-1, spent a lot of money and are getting the results. Doesn't always work, needs a team that know a player and where to play him. But that's why you pay big money for a top manager and his behind the scenes team. Biggest problem is making our club attractive enough for decent players to want to come here. Rugby team and open corner stadium hardly did that did they? But many deluded idiots on here wanted that again. Stepping backwards to a Championship side is not the answer. Consolidation in the prem is, but we have to pay the going rate to do it, it simply can't be done on the cheap and the fabled next step can't be done in a few year. It has to be EVERY aspect of the club gradually improving and I'm sorry but the cheap option players we've taken in the last two seasons have hurt us badly. We haven't even replaced like with like never mind improve. N'Zonzi (sold) not replaced, Arni (Sold) not replaced, Bojan (career changing injury) not replaced Huth (sold) not replaced add in a few seasoned pros like Bardsley, Walters, Whelan who certainly have not been improved upon and people wonder why we're struggling.just LOL. I think you have totally missed the point. The point isn't me crying about being a stoke fan and low spending, I'm talking about why there is a need to spend £40 MILLION on a player. No player is worth that daft amount.
|
|
|
Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 28, 2017 23:03:07 GMT
Yes your right regards aspiration. Its a never ending up hill battle in the Premier league though. The only alternative is to separate out the top 5,6 or 7 into a Euro super league like others have said on here. Same as most everything else in life is a never ending uphill battle but we don't start taking it in turns to be chief executive of BP do we. Why can't people seem to cope with others being better and more successful than we are that's life. Its because we are Stoke and hard to comprehend anyone being better than us.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 23:18:59 GMT
With all the money in the world Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City still don't have a better keeper than us. The gap between the rich and the so called poor of the premiership should be closing not widening. It's the owners of the lesser teams that are not spending to keep pace. We are the 39th richest club IN THE WORLD . Does anyone even the most deluded think we have the 39th best team in the world. You need two teams of top quality players to play in the Prem and in CL or Europa FACT. We haven't got one with everyone fully fit. FACT. That's why people are dishartened because teams like us are balking at the money needed to compete. It's 100 million for a top 6 club striker and we cry at spending 12 million. We should be spending 30-40 million on a star striker and the cheapest player in our squad should be valued at 15-20 million we finished 9th 3 times in a row and have had the money . We just keep pissing it up the wall on crocks, old men and bad attitudes. We take the cheap gamble player every time. Well look at Liverpool since we dicked them 6-1, spent a lot of money and are getting the results. Doesn't always work, needs a team that know a player and where to play him. But that's why you pay big money for a top manager and his behind the scenes team. Biggest problem is making our club attractive enough for decent players to want to come here. Rugby team and open corner stadium hardly did that did they? But many deluded idiots on here wanted that again. Stepping backwards to a Championship side is not the answer. Consolidation in the prem is, but we have to pay the going rate to do it, it simply can't be done on the cheap and the fabled next step can't be done in a few year. It has to be EVERY aspect of the club gradually improving and I'm sorry but the cheap option players we've taken in the last two seasons have hurt us badly. We haven't even replaced like with like never mind improve. N'Zonzi (sold) not replaced, Arni (Sold) not replaced, Bojan (career changing injury) not replaced Huth (sold) not replaced add in a few seasoned pros like Bardsley, Walters, Whelan who certainly have not been improved upon and people wonder why we're struggling.just LOL. I think you have totally missed the point. The point isn't me crying about being a stoke fan and low spending, I'm talking about why there is a need to spend £40 MILLION on a player. No player is worth that daft amount. So you would rather the players be cheap and the owners pocket the profits? Prices always rise when the sellers know the buyers have money. If we keep going like we are then the prem will be on invite only without relegation or promotion, what's needed is a better spread of funds down through the leagues however, the greedy bastards at the top table wanted a bigger slice of the cake. They don't want ANY league they just want exhibition football with lots of profit. It's been a long time since a BIG club was relegated, I never thought I'd see Leeds , Man United, Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest go down. 4 European Champions right there with only one so far recovering and they are still bitching about not having enough money =). Might restore some faith in the league if a big club went down more than Leicester winning it did. No for me the structure of the leagues is sound, the finances are the only flaw. If we drop back to the championship it will be 12 -15 thousand crowds and only new investment money would get us back up, probably from a foreign investor. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen when those clubs I've already mentioned are a far better project.
|
|
|
Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Dec 28, 2017 23:21:56 GMT
I'll always support Stoke, but football is wank these days.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 23:31:54 GMT
I wrote an article a while back about falling out of love with football its definitely happening to me - slowly but surely and compettion at a fair level is so badly distorted by money there's just no romance anymore and, that's what made our 92 club league system so special there was elitesim - always was but, the money flowed through our league system more fairly So much of that has gone for me you just hope and live for the occasional shock result and, we have been very fortunate to see Stoke City in the very top flight if, only for a while (something id never thought id see ever again ) and like my older brother, I have become reduced to rejoicing when the likes of United, Citeh, liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea et al, fall on their arses and fail. or smiling inside when the likes of Leicester and / or Burnley baulk the trend I relate to everything you say. I have only watched Stoke twice this season, due mainly to failing health. However I have watched my home town team, Macclesfield play 5 times, I can be dropped of at the gate and wander in no steps etc. It is a good community club and every match I watch rekindles my passion for football. The players are not as skilful but they have plenty of passion and there are plenty of hard tackles, virtually no diving and we are top of the league. What more could I wish for? Well I can answer that I wish that my true club were as passionate and the supporters as positive and that we did not keep losing by cricket scores and it was easier to get to the ground. Great football is alive and well, just not in the premier league.
|
|
|
Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 29, 2017 0:04:33 GMT
Yes you have Peter and John and Stoke in one hand and Bet365 interests in the other. Its complex. Would Bet365 be interested with us in the Championship? There are no easy answers. They’d probably cash in and cut their losses. The name would disappear from the Stoke’s stadium and from the shirts, but it would still flash around the advertising hoardings at every televised match (together with annoying little dog). From the outside in and knowing how Bet365 look after their staff and players. I would say money is no issue. They would continue to sponsor the club and provide funds.
|
|
|
Post by bhp on Dec 29, 2017 0:27:45 GMT
The fact that Leicester won it recently proves it is not impossible so no, it’s not ruined, it’s no different than it has been for the last 15-20 years. If anything is ruined it’s the champions league, and that’s due to there been no free coverage on TV anymore. Football has changed significantly since Leicester's miraculous affair.
|
|
|
Post by bhp on Dec 29, 2017 0:33:39 GMT
With all the money in the world Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City still don't have a better keeper than us. Wow wow wow, I read the first line and that was enough. You think we have a better goalkeeper than Chelsea and Man City?? Wow.
|
|
|
Post by Gifton on Dec 29, 2017 0:34:20 GMT
The American dream turned suburban nightmare.
We were sold a lie
Modern football is rubbish
Viva la revolution
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Dec 29, 2017 1:56:44 GMT
Football’s transfer market has become a huge media driven spectacle in it’s own right. Driven by the modern format we lovingly know as the ‘transfer window’, the bartering and quibbling seems to intrigue the football public as much as the game itself. Sky Sports News have been known to put a timer in the bottom of the screen in early August to inform the public how many days hours and seconds it will be before the window closes – a prestige not afforded to the actual start of the football season itself. When discussing a team’s possibilities we can even hear talk of good windows and bad windows… and this is where the actual football can be carelessly overlooked.
The modern culture of quick fix purchases is a flaw in the modern football psyche. It seems the solution to any situation in any team is to throw money at it. Football clubs don’t want to appear unambitious so choose to spend X million pounds to demonstrate their enthusiasm. Some clubs would surely benefit as much from coaching and encouraging the players they already have. One of football’s legendary stories was Brian Clough aiding John Robertson’s metamorphosis from overweight cigarette smoking plodder to a worthy European Cup winner. Clough coined a little saying to describe his management strategy… observe and replace. This was to look for a player’s strengths and weaknesses and implement them in the most effective way possible. To replace was to simply be aware his team could always improve and when possible alter the personnel accordingly. At Liverpool, one of Bob Paisley’s masterstrokes was to move Ray Kennedy from attack to midfield. In this age they would feel obliged to spend £26 million on a midfielder who may or may not be what they want and if it doesn’t work out spend another £26 million the next time one of those deplorable portholes opens up.
And when supporters obsess over the need to spend millions and billions we are part of that problematic spiral. This doesn’t mean football clubs are making a mistake by buying new players. Nor does it suggest supporters are foolish to want their club to invest in their squads. However, huge financial outlays aren’t the only route to success. Some clubs might be better advised to spend time working with their current team to improve fortunes. In some cases the answer might be right under their noses.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Dec 29, 2017 2:29:58 GMT
With all the money in the world Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City still don't have a better keeper than us. The gap between the rich and the so called poor of the premiership should be closing not widening. It's the owners of the lesser teams that are not spending to keep pace. We are the 39th richest club IN THE WORLD . Does anyone even the most deluded think we have the 39th best team in the world. You need two teams of top quality players to play in the Prem and in CL or Europa FACT. We haven't got one with everyone fully fit. FACT. That's why people are dishartened because teams like us are balking at the money needed to compete. It's 100 million for a top 6 club striker and we cry at spending 12 million. We should be spending 30-40 million on a star striker and the cheapest player in our squad should be valued at 15-20 million we finished 9th 3 times in a row and have had the money . We just keep pissing it up the wall on crocks, old men and bad attitudes. We take the cheap gamble player every time. Well look at Liverpool since we dicked them 6-1, spent a lot of money and are getting the results. Doesn't always work, needs a team that know a player and where to play him. But that's why you pay big money for a top manager and his behind the scenes team. Biggest problem is making our club attractive enough for decent players to want to come here. Rugby team and open corner stadium hardly did that did they? But many deluded idiots on here wanted that again. Stepping backwards to a Championship side is not the answer. Consolidation in the prem is, but we have to pay the going rate to do it, it simply can't be done on the cheap and the fabled next step can't be done in a few year. It has to be EVERY aspect of the club gradually improving and I'm sorry but the cheap option players we've taken in the last two seasons have hurt us badly. We haven't even replaced like with like never mind improve. N'Zonzi (sold) not replaced, Arni (Sold) not replaced, Bojan (career changing injury) not replaced Huth (sold) not replaced add in a few seasoned pros like Bardsley, Walters, Whelan who certainly have not been improved upon and people wonder why we're struggling.just LOL. I think you have totally missed the point. The point isn't me crying about being a stoke fan and low spending, I'm talking about why there is a need to spend £40 MILLION on a player. No player is worth that daft amount. That’s like saying why would you spend a million on a tiny little flat in London when you can buy the same thing for 25,000 in Longton. Simply supply and demand.
|
|
|
Post by melbourne on Dec 29, 2017 5:34:26 GMT
With the latest signing for Liverpool going at £75M, the highest transfer for a defender in the entire history of football from a team thats leaked goals left right and centre all season. For me the league is now finished. It's not exciting anymore. The gap between top to bottom is a joke. The bottom teams are happily acceping 1, or 2-0 defeats as they already know they have lost the game before they have started. Man city have already won the league, swansea are very likely to go down and its half way through the season. Tackles have gone out of the game anymore, no rivalry, no passion, nothing. For me, the big clubs are not football teams anymore, they are brands with business plans. They get so much money from playing UCL football its sickening. Why would man united want to play burnley, when they could play real madrid on Saturday, Barcelona the next etc etc. Ask yourself is the premier league really that exciting? I'd say no, the odd fixture yes, but who really sits at home as a neutral and looks forward to man city v swansea? I used to be against a europa super league, but now i believe this is the way forward, get rid of all top 5 teams out the premier league, and lets start making it competitive again. Caps on wages, caps on transfers and lets make it a working mans game. Cap ticket prices at £20 all over. Its got out of hand already, and maybe were too late to stop it, but eventually there will be a crash. There needs to be one for this absolute farce of £100M's being thrown around like hot cakes on pretty much every signing. Rugby have got the game under control, they keep it exciting with a play off system in every league every year. The aim of finishing 1st is if you get knocked out of the playoffs you get a second chance. Everyone else has one chance and its a knockout system. Anyone in the top 6 can be crowned champions. That would keep the league going to the end. Do you honestly go and ENJOY man city v stoke, Chelsea v stoke 99 times out of 100? Whilst your heart says yes, your head is probably a no. Interesting to hear some thoughts on this. Don't understand how this helps your argument. Wouldn't them being brilliant at the back and spending that money on a player they don't need be more evidence of money going crazy rather than a player that is desperately needed?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 6:52:15 GMT
The fact that Leicester won it recently proves it is not impossible so no, it’s not ruined, it’s no different than it has been for the last 15-20 years. If anything is ruined it’s the champions league, and that’s due to there been no free coverage on TV anymore. Football has changed significantly since Leicester's miraculous affair. How is it any different to when Chelsea came along splashing the cash? It has been happening for decades it’s just that the fees are even bigger now. It can backfire spectacularly though and surely will again in time for some of these clubs.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 29, 2017 7:52:01 GMT
Simple solution - noone subscribes to Sky or BT or any other provider.
Of all the contributors to this thread I'd bet a good proportion are directly contributing to the problem!
|
|