|
Post by Northy on Dec 18, 2017 8:55:20 GMT
-20 goal difference in half a season sums up what Hughes has made us into, that in itself is enough to send him off with his P45. He's let all the hard workers go and brought in a bunch of unorganised fairies.
|
|
|
Post by Veritas on Dec 18, 2017 9:09:23 GMT
Get rid when and only when we have a viable replacement. He has clearly lost his way but unless we have a quality alternative lined up, which is unlikely, I think it would be better to dig in for 17th place which is still very achievable and replace in the summer.
|
|
|
Post by premrandallsbday on Dec 18, 2017 9:10:06 GMT
We have lost our DNA - it started when we sold Robert Huth, Mark Hughes couldn't see his value and of course he went on the form the spine of a Premier League winning back four. We didn't do enough to convince N'zonzi, Begovic and Arnautovic of our ambition - which they both cited as one of their reasons to leave. Then we considered the likes of unfashionable Jon Walters, Glenn Whelan, Phil Bardsley to be surplus to requirements.
This would be all well and good if the transfer funds had been invested wisely but the signings of Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino and the like have been proved to have been incredibly bad value - maybe talented but simply not committed. Those who remain and do have a bit of backbone and commitment are now completely devoid of confidence and teams come to the Britannia without any fear and expecting a result which was never the case under Pulis
We have played the ridiculous back three formation for the season in an ill conceived attempt to accommodate Shakiri - which plainly hasn't worked, yet Hughes still persists and have now come full circle and resorted to lumping long balls forward to Peter Crouch on Saturday in a pale imitation of Tony Pulis "route one" approach - but without the defensive grit we used to have.
This all seems to mirror the outcome at QPR under Mark Hughes reign when he assembled an unbalanced squad of overpriced individuals who couldn't gel as a team.
I am not a Tony Pulis apologist - he did a great job for us at the time (which we should never forget) but he'd run his course. Likewise, I had no issue with Mark Hughes appointment and have nothing against him or the job that he was trying to do in improving our style of play - it was what the majority of supporters, as well as the Chairman, wanted. But, we must now face the fact that it hasn't worked and act now. It's plain that West Ham, Crystal Palace and Everton have all acted and this has been seen in their upturn in results.
In his post match interview on Saturday he trotted out the same old mantra that the group know what has to be done and they'll do it in the coming week - I just don't see it. With the same group of players at his disposal if this were possible then we should have done it against West Ham, Bournemouth, Burnley etc etc. I can even live with the occasional hidings from the likes of Man City, Spurs and the like - these results are understandable but enough is enough now
Our only hope is a change at the top - new manager, new approach with the slate wiped clean. January will be too late - we'll be adrift by then and stuck in the bottom three and psychologically that'll be the last straw for a group of players who are already lacking in belief and confidence.
|
|
|
Post by premrandallsbday on Dec 18, 2017 9:14:56 GMT
Oh - and QPR went down.
Charlie Adam as caretaker manager over Christmas and New Year anyone - at least he might stir things up a bit (or is that how desperate I've become) ??
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Dec 18, 2017 9:27:02 GMT
yes thanks. Season ticket and kodi for away ones or ones I can't go to You must wear ear-plugs then.
|
|
|
Post by redstriper on Dec 18, 2017 9:33:44 GMT
I'm giving him the wba game to show that the players are still with him. Last chance saloon.
I've defended him to the hilt up until now as he is no fool and the replacements suggested have been laughable, but there comes a point where his position become untenable, and point is reached with football managers when the players stop playing for him.
Even if we pull off a win against WBA I'm giving him the transfer window to show he is addressing the obvious problem areas and getting backing. If nothing changes I think he'll have to go at that point, along with the CEO.
|
|
|
Post by scfc1863 on Dec 18, 2017 9:36:10 GMT
We have lost our DNA - it started when we sold Robert Huth, Mark Hughes couldn't see his value and of course he went on the form the spine of a Premier League winning back four. We didn't do enough to convince N'zonzi, Begovic and Arnautovic of our ambition - which they both cited as one of their reasons to leave. Then we considered the likes of unfashionable Jon Walters, Glenn Whelan, Phil Bardsley to be surplus to requirements. This would be all well and good if the transfer funds had been invested wisely but the signings of Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino and the like have been proved to have been incredibly bad value - maybe talented but simply not committed. Those who remain and do have a bit of backbone and commitment are now completely devoid of confidence and teams come to the Britannia without any fear and expecting a result which was never the case under Pulis We have played the ridiculous back three formation for the season in an ill conceived attempt to accommodate Shakiri - which plainly hasn't worked, yet Hughes still persists and have now come full circle and resorted to lumping long balls forward to Peter Crouch on Saturday in a pale imitation of Tony Pulis "route one" approach - but without the defensive grit we used to have. This all seems to mirror the outcome at QPR under Mark Hughes reign when he assembled an unbalanced squad of overpriced individuals who couldn't gel as a team. I am not a Tony Pulis apologist - he did a great job for us at the time (which we should never forget) but he'd run his course. Likewise, I had no issue with Mark Hughes appointment and have nothing against him or the job that he was trying to do in improving our style of play - it was what the majority of supporters, as well as the Chairman, wanted. But, we must now face the fact that it hasn't worked and act now. It's plain that West Ham, Crystal Palace and Everton have all acted and this has been seen in their upturn in results. In his post match interview on Saturday he trotted out the same old mantra that the group know what has to be done and they'll do it in the coming week - I just don't see it. With the same group of players at his disposal if this were possible then we should have done it against West Ham, Bournemouth, Burnley etc etc. I can even live with the occasional hidings from the likes of Man City, Spurs and the like - these results are understandable but enough is enough now Our only hope is a change at the top - new manager, new approach with the slate wiped clean. January will be too late - we'll be adrift by then and stuck in the bottom three and psychologically that'll be the last straw for a group of players who are already lacking in belief and confidence.
|
|
|
Post by scfc1863 on Dec 18, 2017 9:38:42 GMT
We have lost our DNA - it started when we sold Robert Huth, Mark Hughes couldn't see his value and of course he went on the form the spine of a Premier League winning back four. We didn't do enough to convince N'zonzi, Begovic and Arnautovic of our ambition - which they both cited as one of their reasons to leave. Then we considered the likes of unfashionable Jon Walters, Glenn Whelan, Phil Bardsley to be surplus to requirements. This would be all well and good if the transfer funds had been invested wisely but the signings of Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino and the like have been proved to have been incredibly bad value - maybe talented but simply not committed. Those who remain and do have a bit of backbone and commitment are now completely devoid of confidence and teams come to the Britannia without any fear and expecting a result which was never the case under Pulis We have played the ridiculous back three formation for the season in an ill conceived attempt to accommodate Shakiri - which plainly hasn't worked, yet Hughes still persists and have now come full circle and resorted to lumping long balls forward to Peter Crouch on Saturday in a pale imitation of Tony Pulis "route one" approach - but without the defensive grit we used to have. This all seems to mirror the outcome at QPR under Mark Hughes reign when he assembled an unbalanced squad of overpriced individuals who couldn't gel as a team. I am not a Tony Pulis apologist - he did a great job for us at the time (which we should never forget) but he'd run his course. Likewise, I had no issue with Mark Hughes appointment and have nothing against him or the job that he was trying to do in improving our style of play - it was what the majority of supporters, as well as the Chairman, wanted. But, we must now face the fact that it hasn't worked and act now. It's plain that West Ham, Crystal Palace and Everton have all acted and this has been seen in their upturn in results. In his post match interview on Saturday he trotted out the same old mantra that the group know what has to be done and they'll do it in the coming week - I just don't see it. With the same group of players at his disposal if this were possible then we should have done it against West Ham, Bournemouth, Burnley etc etc. I can even live with the occasional hidings from the likes of Man City, Spurs and the like - these results are understandable but enough is enough now Our only hope is a change at the top - new manager, new approach with the slate wiped clean. January will be too late - we'll be adrift by then and stuck in the bottom three and psychologically that'll be the last straw for a group of players who are already lacking in belief and confidence. Excellent post.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 18, 2017 9:51:47 GMT
Good idea to do a poll, but I have some concerns about the usefulness/fairness of it. NONE of the 4 options applied to me, so I felt unable to vote. The options being; He should be removed immediately. Ok so I don't personally want this, so no. He should go if we lose to West Brom. I'm happy to say I don't want this either. Give him the January Transfer Window: Now here is the first problem: what does this question mean? Give him "until" the January transfer window starts? Or give him "the whole" transfer window? I just feel it's a bit ambiguous, sorry. And anyway besides, I don't know how I might feel in January. Lose the next few games and I'll probably feel one way, win 'em and I'll no doubt feel t'other! Keep faith with him until the end of the season. Again, I like Hughes, but I definitely can't commit to this. E.g. would I really want him to stay for 20 games, if he lost the first 10?!? So with NONE of the choices matching how I feel, I didn't take part. And if lots of other folk did the same, then you could end up with inaccurate results, despite your good intentions. (In my humble opinion, a fairer poll would have have been a straightforward "Sack Hughes now; yes or no?"; and everyone would have come down on one side or the other). Sorry, but just wanted to give feedback rather than just reading the thread , not taking part in the survey, but then not explaining why! For what it's worth, I don't think option 3 was remotely ambiguous at all, give him THE January transfer window clearly refers to the whole window imo.
|
|
|
Post by neilb987 on Dec 18, 2017 9:57:19 GMT
I'll give him the West Brom game, but if we fail to win that, he's got to go. I feel very sad about this. For three seasons MH was excellent - he complemented the Pulis grafters with genuine quality and for a while we played some classy football - some of the best I've seen in 50+ years of watching my beloved Stoke. Three consequetive top-ten finishes is no mean achievement.
Sadly, a whole series of bad management decisions - and some bad luck with injuries, to be fair - have produced a weakened, disorganised and demoralised team. We still have some top-quality players, but we need to remember how to defend, chase and harry in midfield, and actually have forwards who can score goals. Sadly, I dont think Hughes has got the organisational and motivational skills to actually lift this team out of our current malaise.
|
|
|
Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Dec 18, 2017 9:57:31 GMT
I can’t think of a positive out of the season so far...?
Erm, the Man U game? That’s about it. Everything else... awful.
Terrible tactics, formations, subs, goal difference, loses to poor teams, excuses, etc etc etc
|
|
|
Post by harrysburrow on Dec 18, 2017 10:34:21 GMT
Need a change.
|
|
|
Post by Sfance on Dec 18, 2017 10:46:22 GMT
If he’s still here after he loses to WBA, it’s all over. But I’m one of those who looks forward to seeing some real football again in the Championship. We haven’t been worth watching since the Liverpool game last year.
|
|
|
Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Dec 18, 2017 11:17:53 GMT
Just look at the table. Look at the goal difference. We’re not just struggling, we are getting cut adrift.
Worst goal difference ALWAYS GETS RELEGATED. ALWAYS.
Change NOW.
Koeman IN.
|
|
|
Post by SCFC92 on Dec 18, 2017 11:50:42 GMT
HUGHES OUT
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Dec 18, 2017 11:54:38 GMT
If he’s still here after he loses to WBA, it’s all over. But I’m one of those who looks forward to seeing some real football again in the Championship. We haven’t been worth watching since the Liverpool game last year. If we lose to West Brom then for me, it's buckle up and prepare for the Championship. I just think we'll be too far damaged to come back from it.
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Dec 18, 2017 12:15:56 GMT
2 years ago we looked like a decent team. We were developing a style of play that suited our players and were recruiting players who could fit into that system.
Something went wrong. The manager lost faith in his players and his tactics. We changed our attack every week. We played a false 9, then a 6ft 7 target man, then a 5ft 7 number 10 upfront on his own, then a pacy striker with no touch and asked him to link play in side that took 25 passes to reach the half way line, then we pushed a holding, battling midfielder into the 10 position... the results weren't good.
To try and improve things we then started making similar, regular, wholesale changes to the way we defended. The results have been catastrophic.
Mark Hughes has lost his nerve. Bad luck with injuries and referees has clearly contributed to this, but those things do happen and do not excuse the increasingly muddled decisions he continues to make.
The team has no shape and no identity, consequently the players have no confidence and no real understanding of their roles from week to week. Training sessions must be chaotic with players spending more time looking at whiteboards than footballs.
I did have some sympathy for Hughes. I did appreciate the job he was trying to do. The final straw for ne has been his ridiculous post match comments over the last 3 months. If he had accepted some responsiblity and shown some fight then I would be prepared to support his continued tenure as manager.
Sadly I believe his course is run. He should have been relieved of his position this morning.
Whilst he is still in charge I will support him and his team as loudly and passionately as I can. I am sure that he wants us to win every game as much as I do.
Booing and abusing our own helps nobody.
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 18, 2017 12:19:06 GMT
Whoever is in charge will need to bring in some recruits in the January window. Zouma will be back soon but not before we've played a few more games with Wimmer as our only option. Bruno back in the New Year although we can't return to three at the back. Do we bring in a goalscorer...on loan perhaps but someone with a good CV? Starting with Crouch is absolutely not a tactic we should continue with. Ramadan is proving to be less than incisive with his play and Choupo needs to return. And, if Jese is deemed a waste of space, then get rid and draft in another winger. I'm not sure how up for a fight he is. And talking about a fight, oh how we need some muscle in midfield. Fletcher has suddenly lost it completely after a reasonable start. Bench him and get a new central midfielder in. If we don't buy a new right back then we could play Cameron or Zouma there. If Kurt, then Cameron could fill in as a third player in a three man midfield with Allen and Afellay (if we don't bring another in). Shore up that defence with Ryan and Indi with Erik and Kurt either side perhaps. We could just about get away with two new players and a new winger if Jese leaves. Be strong, be boring and just a bit nasty and we might hang on. It's not a lost cause, just look at the table and the points each team has. I'm sure Hughes is doing that, but without changes in personnel, we're in the brown stuff big time.
|
|
|
Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Dec 18, 2017 12:20:09 GMT
Sacked immediately for gross negligence in all areas of football management.
|
|
Macko
Youth Player
Posts: 467
|
Post by Macko on Dec 18, 2017 13:00:33 GMT
I cannot believe around 10% want him to stay all season, what kind of shite and relagation certainties are you prepared to put up with just to avoid sacking a guy who hasn't managed our team properly for 20 months now? Unbelievable ...
|
|
|
Post by PolPotter on Dec 18, 2017 13:10:10 GMT
One last game to confirm how dreadful we are but Coates will stick with him.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Dec 18, 2017 13:11:56 GMT
I cannot believe around 10% want him to stay all season, what kind of shite and relagation certainties are you prepared to put up with just to avoid sacking a guy who hasn't managed our team properly for 20 months now? Unbelievable ... The majority of those I would guess are in the camp of better the devil you know, given the dearth of half decent candidates old man Coates would potentially appoint. I voted for remove immediately btw.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 18, 2017 13:23:16 GMT
2 years ago we looked like a decent team. We were developing a style of play that suited our players and were recruiting players who could fit into that system. Something went wrong. The manager lost faith in his players and his tactics. We changed our attack every week. We played a false 9, then a 6ft 7 target man, then a 5ft 7 number 10 upfront on his own, then a pacy striker with no touch and asked him to link play in side that took 25 passes to reach the half way line, then we pushed a holding, battling midfielder into the 10 position... the results weren't good. To try and improve things we then started making similar, regular, wholesale changes to the way we defended. The results have been catastrophic. Mark Hughes has lost his nerve. Bad luck with injuries and referees has clearly contributed to this, but those things do happen and do not excuse the increasingly muddled decisions he continues to make. The team has no shape and no identity, consequently the players have no confidence and no real understanding of their roles from week to week. Training sessions must be chaotic with players spending more time looking at whiteboards than footballs. I did have some sympathy for Hughes. I did appreciate the job he was trying to do. The final straw for ne has been his ridiculous post match comments over the last 3 months. If he had accepted some responsiblity and shown some fight then I would be prepared to support his continued tenure as manager. Sadly I believe his course is run. He should have been relieved of his position this morning. Whilst he is still in charge I will support him and his team as loudly and passionately as I can. I am sure that he wants us to win every game as much as I do. Booing and abusing our own helps nobody. This, very much so. I read so many posts made by people who think he's still trying to play the same way, manage the game the same way and this is what's led to our/his downfall. Can't understand how people who watch our games think this is the same cavalier go for the win manager that prospered for us. He has indeed lost his nerve or bottle whatever you want to call it he's a pale imitation of the manager who joined us.
|
|
|
Post by stokeyank on Dec 18, 2017 13:34:48 GMT
We have lost our DNA - it started when we sold Robert Huth, Mark Hughes couldn't see his value and of course he went on the form the spine of a Premier League winning back four. We didn't do enough to convince N'zonzi, Begovic and Arnautovic of our ambition - which they both cited as one of their reasons to leave. Then we considered the likes of unfashionable Jon Walters, Glenn Whelan, Phil Bardsley to be surplus to requirements. This would be all well and good if the transfer funds had been invested wisely but the signings of Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino and the like have been proved to have been incredibly bad value - maybe talented but simply not committed. Those who remain and do have a bit of backbone and commitment are now completely devoid of confidence and teams come to the Britannia without any fear and expecting a result which was never the case under Pulis We have played the ridiculous back three formation for the season in an ill conceived attempt to accommodate Shakiri - which plainly hasn't worked, yet Hughes still persists and have now come full circle and resorted to lumping long balls forward to Peter Crouch on Saturday in a pale imitation of Tony Pulis "route one" approach - but without the defensive grit we used to have. This all seems to mirror the outcome at QPR under Mark Hughes reign when he assembled an unbalanced squad of overpriced individuals who couldn't gel as a team. I am not a Tony Pulis apologist - he did a great job for us at the time (which we should never forget) but he'd run his course. Likewise, I had no issue with Mark Hughes appointment and have nothing against him or the job that he was trying to do in improving our style of play - it was what the majority of supporters, as well as the Chairman, wanted. But, we must now face the fact that it hasn't worked and act now. It's plain that West Ham, Crystal Palace and Everton have all acted and this has been seen in their upturn in results. In his post match interview on Saturday he trotted out the same old mantra that the group know what has to be done and they'll do it in the coming week - I just don't see it. With the same group of players at his disposal if this were possible then we should have done it against West Ham, Bournemouth, Burnley etc etc. I can even live with the occasional hidings from the likes of Man City, Spurs and the like - these results are understandable but enough is enough now Our only hope is a change at the top - new manager, new approach with the slate wiped clean. January will be too late - we'll be adrift by then and stuck in the bottom three and psychologically that'll be the last straw for a group of players who are already lacking in belief and confidence. About as good as summary as you'll see.
|
|
|
Post by itsallgonepetetone on Dec 18, 2017 15:33:33 GMT
Any statistic or evidence holds more weight the longer the period it represents. Many of the pundits (BT are a good example) are only looking at this as of this season - some would say justification in its self.
However if we look at all of last season and this season the figures are as follows: Those are the black and white facts, make your decision from there.
Played 56 Won 15 Drawn 15 Lost 26 Win % 26.8% Loss % 46.4% Goals For: 60 = 1.07 p/g Goals Ag: 95 = 1.70
They suggest we will win 5 more games in the remaining fixtures. That gives us 31 points, a negative GD -34 plus what ever draws we can muster.
For me the Huth “injury” to non playing to sale was the start of the management errors, both on and off the pitch.
|
|
|
Post by spiderpuss on Dec 18, 2017 15:35:45 GMT
The only reason he isn't gone is because we haven't got a Malaysian or Taiwanese owner, he would have been shown the door a long time ago. The team looks like a deconstructed Rhubarb crumble. All the ingredients are there, and maybe some have got lost along the way. What we have though is a tasteless, insipid bunch of displays where teams can't wait to play SCFC. Unfortunately this is all MH's fault as far as I can see and "premrandallsbday" post just about nails it head. Players swapped for incorrect ones, bad team formations and at times bad motivation. If we stick with MH, there is only one conclusion to this season and it means Wigan Athletic will form part of our fixture list next term.
|
|
|
Post by NG4POTTERS on Dec 18, 2017 16:07:31 GMT
Remove immediately. The smell of relegation is in the air though regardless. I thought different some weeks ago and thought we would have enough to stay up. We may still have, who knows. However he has run his course. Im just scared shitless of us appointing some dinosaur manager. Jeez what a conundrum!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 18, 2017 16:16:43 GMT
I think get rid now and get a new manager in and back him during the January window.
Mark Hughes has done well for Stoke. There's no disputing that, irrespective of where we are currently. He managed a difficult transition after Pulis, transforming the playing style and three 9th placed finishes is good going.
However, the thing that is most obvious about the new style is how open it is. Our defence terrifies me. And if you look at past Premier League tables it's always the teams with leaky defences that get relegated. Every year. Unless we tighten up massively at the back we will get relegated. And Hughes doesn't seem able to do that.
Even our win against Arsenal was very lucky and we could easily have lost that 4-1.
His race is run. Cut the damage now. Unfortunately, a new manager would be a big punt since Allardyce has already been appointed. Who is a viable candidate? Eddie Howe? Would he leave Bournemouth for Stoke? Can he only manage at Bournemouth? Sean Dyche. Surely he'd be tempted by our bigger signings than Burnley will ever make and he can clearly get the best from players.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 16:36:00 GMT
Sorry but the general negativity is warranted by what the fans are seeing on the pitch and the disbelief that those in power seem blind to our fate. Remind me again why I should see the positives based on our form and thrashings in the last 18 months which are now sadly reflected in our league position. The only positive I can muster is that 18 months of dire performances are coming to an end, given that a new manager will at least put some fight into them. If you see something I don't then please share it. You see a new manager? Please share. I haven't made my Christmas wish yet^
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 16:47:14 GMT
Sorry but the general negativity is warranted by what the fans are seeing on the pitch and the disbelief that those in power seem blind to our fate. Remind me again why I should see the positives based on our form and thrashings in the last 18 months which are now sadly reflected in our league position. The only positive I can muster is that 18 months of dire performances are coming to an end, given that a new manager will at least put some fight into them. If you see something I don't then please share it. I am quite convinced that no matter what Hughes will remain in charge for the whole season. At the most he will be replaced by a caretaker when the hurly burly's done and the battle is already lost and won and the caretaker will be in charge for the last few games when we would have already been relegated. The feeling of disdain, nay disgust, which i have for Coates. For allowing this to happen is extremely difficult to describe I keep trying to rise above that feeling because quite frankly another 30 years in the wilderness does not bear thinking about. I'd rather be called a knicker wetter than sitting on a fence twiddling my thumbs hoping the Christmas Fairy will put all thing right. We might be wrong Coates might be doing all he can behind the scenes , but it sure doesn't feel that way. It's like everything he does is in old Entish. While the forest is being burned.
|
|