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Post by mrcoke on Dec 11, 2017 15:58:31 GMT
1. Waddington - promotion to top flight, LC victory, European football - on merit, exciting football in the 70s, (but not in the 60s),
2. Pulis - promotion to top flight, FA Cup final, European football - albeit by default, backs against the wall survival football.
3. McGrory - arguably the most talented players/team of their time, closest to being Champions, (not forgetting he is the 3rd highest capped Stoke player.)
4. Hughes - the most consistently high placed period in the top top flight of English football - arguably at the most difficult time in history to achieve it.
Did anyone else actually achieve anything significant?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2017 16:03:12 GMT
1. Waddington - promotion to top flight, LC victory, European football - on merit, exciting football in the 70s, (but not in the 60s), 2. Pulis - promotion to top flight, FA Cup final, European football - albeit by default, backs against the wall survival football. 3. McGrory - arguably the most talented players/team of their time, closest to being Champions, (not forgetting he is the 3rd highest capped Stoke player.) 4. Hughes - the most consistently high placed period in the top top flight of English football - arguably at the most difficult time in history to achieve it. Did anyone else actually achieve anything significant? On the surface Lou's achievements might not seem significant, but in the context of the time, he took a club that had lost every semblance of its pride and felt like it was croaking its last and turned it into something exhilarating, to be proud of. I think it's hard to overestimate that impact.
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Post by Davef on Dec 11, 2017 16:03:41 GMT
1. Waddington - promotion to top flight, LC victory, European football - on merit, exciting football in the 70s, (but not in the 60s), 2. Pulis - promotion to top flight, FA Cup final, European football - albeit by default, backs against the wall survival football. 3. McGrory - arguably the most talented players/team of their time, closest to being Champions, (not forgetting he is the 3rd highest capped Stoke player.) 4. Hughes - the most consistently high placed period in the top top flight of English football - arguably at the most difficult time in history to achieve it. Did anyone else actually achieve anything significant? Alan Durban won promotion (less than two years after we lost to Blyth Spartans) and stabilised the club. The manner of his departure means he's not held in high esteem though. Edit: Of yes of course Lou. Rob's exactly right in what he says above.
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Post by geoff321 on Dec 11, 2017 16:03:54 GMT
1. Waddington - promotion to top flight, LC victory, European football - on merit, exciting football in the 70s, (but not in the 60s), 2. Pulis - promotion to top flight, FA Cup final, European football - albeit by default, backs against the wall survival football. 3. McGrory - arguably the most talented players/team of their time, closest to being Champions, (not forgetting he is the 3rd highest capped Stoke player.) 4. Hughes - the most consistently high placed period in the top top flight of English football - arguably at the most difficult time in history to achieve it. Did anyone else actually achieve anything significant? Good summary, and they all deserve respect!
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Post by alster on Dec 11, 2017 16:04:50 GMT
Brilliant start that gave us our best footballing performances in recent years and put us within a couple of players of challenging for europe. Tailed off after a few poor performances because we reverted to basics too readily and refused to try to play football again. Overall he's done a great job for the club and I would be thankful for his work if he left now. Absolutely sums it up for me. He's betrayed those of us that cut off our nose to spite our face to force the issue with Pulis by becoming Pulis but without the organisation and discipline.
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Post by mrred on Dec 11, 2017 16:06:36 GMT
The guy that didn't know when to stop.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 11, 2017 16:07:56 GMT
A man who completely fucked up his own good work.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 11, 2017 16:08:36 GMT
The bloke who went full circle.
Showed us that we could aspire to be better and play good football but somehow along the way got lost and turned us back into the team that he inherited at the start.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 11, 2017 16:10:19 GMT
If he went tomorrow, then i think how he would be remembered, would be very much influenced by whether we ultimately stay up.
If we're relegated, then first and foremost, I think he will be remembered as the manager who should have been sacked at the end of the 16/17 season.
When kids in the future ask their parents where did it all go wrong leading up to the 2018 relegation, this is what people will refer to.
If we stay up however, I think he'll be remembered first and foremost, for his three top 9 finishes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:14:30 GMT
Unwanted, Respected, Unwanted, Despised.
And in that order.
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Post by alster on Dec 11, 2017 16:16:19 GMT
The bloke who went full circle. Showed us that we could aspire to be better and play good football but somehow along the way got lost and turned us back into the team that he inherited at the start. Isn't that what hurts the most that he showed us what was possible and then though a total lack of bollocks and in an attempt at self preservation he destroyed it and returned to the safety first crap that we had rejected from his predecessor but without the conviction.
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Post by Gods on Dec 11, 2017 16:16:44 GMT
He'd be just a bit thin on real highlights wouldn't he since Pulis already had the modern day Big 3 of promotion to the Premier League promised land, the European sojourn and of course the 1st and only FA Cup Final in our history. Clearly and rightly Sparky would throw his cap on the three 9th place finishes, the short lived Stokealona revolution and a handful of memorable games including the 6-1 demolition of Liverpool and the back to back home wins against the 2 Manchester giants. My own personal favourite Hughes moment is when he launched his rain coat in to the stratosphere at Newcastle United in frustration at the officials
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Post by johnbutlershair on Dec 11, 2017 16:18:27 GMT
He's delivered the three best league finishes in the club's recent history, is that really 'reckless'? "Reckless" appointment is pushing it too far. Showed lots of early promise but ultimately outstayed his welcome is probably more accurate
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 11, 2017 16:18:48 GMT
The bloke who went full circle. Showed us that we could aspire to be better and play good football but somehow along the way got lost and turned us back into the team that he inherited at the start. Isn't that what hurts the most that he showed us what was possible and then though a total lack of bollocks and in an attempt at self preservation he destroyed it and returned to the safety first crap that we had rejected from his predecessor but without the conviction. Yep and all the evidence was there last season when he resorted to Adam and Crouch whenever we were close to falling into danger. As many have said, change was needed in the summer and we're paying for that now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:28:34 GMT
He's delivered the three best league finishes in the club's recent history, is that really 'reckless'? I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:32:22 GMT
In say 15 years. I think people would remember the good more than the bad. Like having bojan in rattling form and beating the dippers 6-1 And beating Citeh 2-0 without a striker, i.e. with a false nine. For bringing in a truckload of Spanish players, then alienating all of them, one by one, breaking promises.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2017 16:32:56 GMT
He's delivered the three best league finishes in the club's recent history, is that really 'reckless'? I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him So any success he had was by accident? He 'accidentally' took the club's to greater heights than his predecessor could manage? I can't have that, sorry mate. If he takes the rap for the bad he takes the credit for the good. The side he inherited had won three times in five months the previous season. He came in and while he did have a solid base to build on, he built a side that played good stuff and got more out of some players (Adam, Nzonzi, Cameron, Crouch) than Pulis could and added/borrowed some quality on the cheap (Odemwingie, Arnie, Moses, Bojan for a while). Whatever came after that, the good stuff was the good stuff and that's down to him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:38:33 GMT
Given how many clubs with a much larger willingness to spend money on transfers are now around, including several queueing up in an attempt to get promoted from the Championship, Id be very surprised if it isn’t too long until we are remembering 3 ninth place finishes in the Premier League fondly.
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Post by Gods on Dec 11, 2017 16:39:05 GMT
Just a further reflection, his great missed opportunity was the League and FA cups which he is just about to have his 10th attempt at.
For a team which is theoretically as 'established' as you can ever be in years 5 to 10 in the Premier League and yet not distracted with any European action these should have been our great opportunity for a few thrills and spills and even some glory, on this basis the 1 League Cup semi against Liverpool was pretty thin pickings and there were some abject exits against Blackburn, Wolves and Bristol to name but 3. You can't over state how deflating it is for the fans, cup exits never get any easier to take, particularly when you should be doing well.
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Post by westgatelakes on Dec 11, 2017 16:42:53 GMT
As the nearly man. He very nearly moved us to the so called next level and has now nearly moved us back to a level below.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:44:42 GMT
I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him So any success he had was by accident? He 'accidentally' took the club's to greater heights than his predecessor could manage? I can't have that, sorry mate. If he takes the rap for the bad he takes the credit for the good. The side he inherited had won three times in five months the previous season. He came in and while he did have a solid base to build on, he built a side that played good stuff and got more out of some players (Adam, Nzonzi, Cameron, Crouch) than Pulis could and added/borrowed some quality on the cheap (Odemwingie, Arnie, Moses, Bojan for a while). Whatever came after that, the good stuff was the good stuff and that's down to him. I was underwhelmed with his appointment I was never convinced with our defence, none existent organisation All those games where we leaked four goals weren’t a fluke mate History repeating itself for Hughes Still, I have to accept what Peter Coates wants, even though I disagree with his choice in managers
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 11, 2017 16:46:10 GMT
He's delivered the three best league finishes in the club's recent history, is that really 'reckless'? I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him Foundations yes, but loads of deficiencies, not least the style of play. Remember we didn't have a decent FB when Pulis left. First thing Hughes did was buy FBs. It was Hughes who got N'Zonzi to play more expensive football and our most improved player under Hughes in his first year was Whelan. The start of Hughes tenure was not a rip roaring success. There were loads of posters saying he was useless during the first few months while he was getting the players to play more creative, possession football. bleacherreport.com/articles/1834784-premier-league-table-2013-week-10-examining-clubs-that-wasted-big-opportunitiesThere was not accident about Hughes achieving 9th place. If it was so easy Pulis would have done it. It's not. it's very risky. That's why most of the middle placed teams play defensive football and try and steal a point. Unfortunately Hughes himself has reverted to this and lets the opposition play with the ball, coupled with the fact we don't have the type of forwards who can press.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:46:18 GMT
My sheer annoyance and frustration with our present manager is born of him demonstrating virtually time without number, a sheer inability to first off, recognize his own limitations and then learn --- from his own mistakes.
Such rank arrogance and sheer stupidity, whilst being employed and remunerated very handsomely
at such an elite level in what is a sport - an entertainment,
is To my eyes, completely unforgivable.
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Post by NassauDave on Dec 11, 2017 16:47:27 GMT
As a clueless twat who should have had the decency to walk away from us a year ago.
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Post by Davef on Dec 11, 2017 16:50:16 GMT
I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him So any success he had was by accident? He 'accidentally' took the club's to greater heights than his predecessor could manage? I can't have that, sorry mate. If he takes the rap for the bad he takes the credit for the good. The side he inherited had won three times in five months the previous season. He came in and while he did have a solid base to build on, he built a side that played good stuff and got more out of some players (Adam, Nzonzi, Cameron, Crouch) than Pulis could and added/borrowed some quality on the cheap (Odemwingie, Arnie, Moses, Bojan for a while). Whatever came after that, the good stuff was the good stuff and that's down to him. You might as well give Holloway all the credit for Pulis winning the LMA manager of the year in 2014. He won promotion and brought the likes of Bolaise, Puncheon, Gayle and Marriapa to Crystal Palace.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 11, 2017 16:54:35 GMT
Did well with the team he inherited-but when it came to making his own team it all went pear shaped. "Did well" or surpassed anything that the previous manager achieved in the league 3 seasons on the bounce? Largely because Pulis didn't have the balls to let those players express themselves. For a while, though, it was brilliant and Hughes should be credited. The last two years have been calamitous, though.
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Post by Gods on Dec 11, 2017 16:59:12 GMT
I hate to admit to this, but the foundations for that were laid by Tony Pulis All that was missing from a TP side was a couple of flair players and a *little* less rigidity to midfield Inevitably Hughes accidentally succeeded with this for a while as he added his first contingent of More technical players I say accidentally because it was always on the cards that he was looking to dismantle the things TP was master of...... discipline organisation and fitness With each season it was obvious the under belly of hughes team was turning gutless and weak as piss due to his replacements Just to add I’m not asking for TP to come back here as I’ve never been a fan of him Foundations yes, but loads of deficiencies, not least the style of play. Remember we didn't have a decent FB when Pulis left. First thing Hughes did was buy FBs.
It was Hughes who got N'Zonzi to play more expensive football and our most improved player under Hughes in his first year was Whelan. The start of Hughes tenure was not a rip roaring success. There were loads of posters saying he was useless during the first few months while he was getting the players to play more creative, possession football. bleacherreport.com/articles/1834784-premier-league-table-2013-week-10-examining-clubs-that-wasted-big-opportunitiesThere was not accident about Hughes achieving 9th place. If it was so easy Pulis would have done it. It's not. it's very risky. That's why most of the middle placed teams play defensive football and try and steal a point. Unfortunately Hughes himself has reverted to this and lets the opposition play with the ball, coupled with the fact we don't have the type of forwards who can press. Seriously, I'm not being funny, it seems like we have played a back 3 for so long I can't remember who our full backs are!? Pieters is one of course, but wasn't he signed by 'late-stage-Pulis'? Bardlsey I suppose would be the other who was a Hughes signing. Anyone else, that's only one and that was in the twilight of his career and he's left now anyway...? Addendum: I just remembered Glenn Johnson, the less said there the better!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2017 17:00:45 GMT
So any success he had was by accident? He 'accidentally' took the club's to greater heights than his predecessor could manage? I can't have that, sorry mate. If he takes the rap for the bad he takes the credit for the good. The side he inherited had won three times in five months the previous season. He came in and while he did have a solid base to build on, he built a side that played good stuff and got more out of some players (Adam, Nzonzi, Cameron, Crouch) than Pulis could and added/borrowed some quality on the cheap (Odemwingie, Arnie, Moses, Bojan for a while). Whatever came after that, the good stuff was the good stuff and that's down to him. I was underwhelmed with his appointment I was never convinced with our defence, none existent organisation All those games where we leaked four goals weren’t a fluke mate History repeating itself for Hughes Still, I have to accept what Peter Coates wants, even though I disagree with his choice in managers Those games where we leaked four were all the past couple of seasons though. You can't give him all the blame for two seasons and dismiss the good two as someone else's work. We wouldn't have scored six against Liverpool under Pulis if we'd had about 14 games to try.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2017 17:01:21 GMT
As a clueless twat who should have had the decency to walk away from us a year ago. Again, a clueless twat who led the club to its three best league finishes in 40 years?
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Post by NassauDave on Dec 11, 2017 17:05:10 GMT
As a clueless twat who should have had the decency to walk away from us a year ago. Again, a clueless twat who led the club to its three best league finishes in 40 years? Yep, that's him. It's a results business, and it's our club's future at stake here not it's past.
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