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Post by waffles on Nov 5, 2017 11:13:18 GMT
50 million pounds worth of reasons why its time to go 1 WIMMER 2 IMBULA and 3 BERAHINO. would you let him spend your money? I would actually, because keeping us in the premiership is worth 100s of millions more and her does that, fact
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 5, 2017 11:14:01 GMT
We went into the Hull game as late as April last year where a defeat would have left us looking in the shit. I'm not the one claiming we are safe and secure under Hughes though am I? Fair enough, you're not.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 11:44:19 GMT
The introduction of Cartwright in the first place owed a lot to his transfer window failings though didn't it? We'd generally gone slowly downhill since the window after the cup final, he lost the goodwill of increasing numbers of the support, we went on a run of one win in four months. It all added up and he really couldn't have too many complaints. Even the most glittering eras come to an end and he was as much the architect of his downfall as he was his own and the team's success. I don't think it was a clear sacking offence really, there were clearly other matters at play. In the present, we've now had pretty much 5 catastrophic windows on the bounce and the people responsible are still safe in their jobs. It's an absolute joke. What other matters? Things had been on the decline for a long time and clearly weren't going to get better. That's on Pulis, nobody else. If he'd built on the cup final team rather than dismantling it he could have taken us into the top half and maybe flirted with the top six and been linked with all manner of bigger jobs. That he didn't isn't anyone else's fault. The present situation is another slow decline and is ultimately going to have the same end game.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 5, 2017 11:47:27 GMT
I don't think it was a clear sacking offence really, there were clearly other matters at play. In the present, we've now had pretty much 5 catastrophic windows on the bounce and the people responsible are still safe in their jobs. It's an absolute joke. What other matters? Things had been on the decline for a long time and clearly weren't going to get better. That's on Pulis, nobody else. If he'd built on the cup final team rather than dismantling it he could have taken us into the top half and maybe flirted with the top six and been linked with all manner of bigger jobs. That he didn't isn't anyone else's fault. The present situation is another slow decline and is ultimately going to have the same end game. I'm not complaining about the decision now and I didn't then. I just don't think it was an outright sacking offence just like it isn't for Hughes now. The sense of wasted money and outright decline has a familiar ring to it though. The fact that Hughes is as thick as thieves with the failing technical and recruitment department is the only real difference.
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Post by werrington on Nov 5, 2017 11:48:19 GMT
I don't think it was a clear sacking offence really, there were clearly other matters at play. In the present, we've now had pretty much 5 catastrophic windows on the bounce and the people responsible are still safe in their jobs. It's an absolute joke. What other matters? Things had been on the decline for a long time and clearly weren't going to get better. That's on Pulis, nobody else. If he'd built on the cup final team rather than dismantling it he could have taken us into the top half and maybe flirted with the top six and been linked with all manner of bigger jobs. That he didn't isn't anyone else's fault. The present situation is another slow decline and is ultimately going to have the same end game. Expectations Rob....he doesn’t want them that’s why that team never pushed on
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 11:49:21 GMT
What other matters? Things had been on the decline for a long time and clearly weren't going to get better. That's on Pulis, nobody else. If he'd built on the cup final team rather than dismantling it he could have taken us into the top half and maybe flirted with the top six and been linked with all manner of bigger jobs. That he didn't isn't anyone else's fault. The present situation is another slow decline and is ultimately going to have the same end game. I'm not complaining about the decision now and I didn't then. I just don't think it was an outright sacking offence just like it isn't for Hughes now. The sense of wasted money and outright decline has a familiar ring to it though. We're back to where we were when TP left. That was shit then and it's shit now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 11:49:25 GMT
What other matters? Things had been on the decline for a long time and clearly weren't going to get better. That's on Pulis, nobody else. If he'd built on the cup final team rather than dismantling it he could have taken us into the top half and maybe flirted with the top six and been linked with all manner of bigger jobs. That he didn't isn't anyone else's fault. The present situation is another slow decline and is ultimately going to have the same end game. Expectations Rob....he doesn’t want them that’s why that team never pushed on Spot on mate.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 5, 2017 11:56:58 GMT
Expectations Rob....he doesn’t want them that’s why that team never pushed on Spot on mate. We've gone to the sublime to the ridiculous in that regard though, haven't we. We have a manger who thinks we can finish 9th and thinks we've played well this season. Surely there is middle ground between a bonfire of expectations of Pulis and the loss of a grip on reality of Hughes.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 12:00:01 GMT
We've gone to the sublime to the ridiculous in that regard though, haven't we. We have a manger who thinks we can finish 9th and thinks we've played well this season. Surely there is middle ground between a bonfire of expectations of Pulis and the loss of a grip on reality of Hughes. It'll take either Hughes to recapture his mojo or a change of manager. I know which one I think is more likely. The reality is we should be capable of finishing 9th and that that looks laughable at the moment is because of Hughes' loss of the plot over the past couple of years.
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Post by lordb on Nov 5, 2017 12:01:37 GMT
Not sure there's always the opportunities in January to get the players you'd like - but we clearly need at least one wing-back (probably two), one central midfielder and a striker There's no surprise we're struggling. The squad is a relatively poor one. And probably not much change out of £40m for that lot? Is there the appetite to spend properly to address the problem areas? Who knows? But the biggest factor keeping Hughes in is the ruling out of Allardyce, Dyche and Moyes from the list of possibles. With them out of the equation, you can't see a managerial change coming any time soon even if we're in a relegation battle quite late on. Could easily be £80m
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Post by shipshape on Nov 5, 2017 12:09:37 GMT
Don't agree with that, we were safe and secure in this league under TP and he was shown the door eventually. We weren't safe and secure in this league under Pulis at all. We needed to win at QPR in the fifth from last game of his final season or we were in deep shit. Yes and we won two nil with ease. I was bricking it before that game. Huge win
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 5, 2017 13:04:21 GMT
Mozzer imo as long as he keeps us in the PL that ensures TV and other media coverage of bet365, then Hughes is safe. Don't agree with that, we were safe and secure in this league under TP and he was shown the door eventually. No way. At the of 2012 we sat in 9th place with 29 points after 20 games. We had just gone ten games unbeaten and everybody was optimistic of a a top seven with around 60 points. The second half of the season was a disaster with only four more wins and some horrible defeats at home to in particular West Ham and Villa. We only gained 13 more points in 18 games. The football was dire.
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Post by alster on Nov 5, 2017 13:11:42 GMT
Don't agree with that, we were safe and secure in this league under TP and he was shown the door eventually. No way. At the of 2012 we sat in 9th place with 29 points after 20 games. We had just gone ten games unbeaten and everybody was optimistic of a a top seven with around 60 points. The second half of the season was a disaster with only four more wins and some horrible defeats at home to in particular West Ham and Villa. We only gained 13 more points in 18 games. The football was dire. I read a stat somewhere about Pulis teams in the Premier League, I can't remember it word for word but it revolved around a lack of wins at any club after the team reached 40 points. It was something like his teams have only once won more than one game in a season after reaching 40 points. Like I say I can't remember it exactly but it was a damning statistic.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 15:07:00 GMT
50 million pounds worth of reasons why its time to go 1 WIMMER 2 IMBULA and 3 BERAHINO. would you let him spend your money? Wimmer is coming good. The other two, yes I'd beat MH around the head with those basket cases.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 15:14:25 GMT
We've gone to the sublime to the ridiculous in that regard though, haven't we. We have a manger who thinks we can finish 9th and thinks we've played well this season. Surely there is middle ground between a bonfire of expectations of Pulis and the loss of a grip on reality of Hughes. A fantastic way of putting it!
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Post by butlerstbob on Nov 5, 2017 16:00:00 GMT
50 million pounds worth of reasons why its time to go 1 WIMMER 2 IMBULA and 3 BERAHINO. would you let him spend your money? So we have written Wimmer off already have we? We have some pathetic fans!
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Post by potterspele on Nov 5, 2017 16:28:46 GMT
We've gone to the sublime to the ridiculous in that regard though, haven't we. We have a manger who thinks we can finish 9th and thinks we've played well this season. Surely there is middle ground between a bonfire of expectations of Pulis and the loss of a grip on reality of Hughes. It'll take either Hughes to recapture his mojo or a change of manager. I know which one I think is more likely. The reality is we should be capable of finishing 9th and that that looks laughable at the moment is because of Hughes' loss of the plot over the past couple of years. Is it laughable? We're currently only 3 points off ninth with a couple of good games ahead and an opportunity to get a few more points on the board, certainly a better chance than some others around us. It's been an up and down season certainly but in spite of that we're more or less keeping pace even if it's hard to predict how we are likely to play each week. The way I see it we could go either way. There's enough in this side to get a bit of a run going if we stay unbeaten up to Liverpool and given the decent performances against man United and arsenal I think we could pull off a result. Equally we could turn in a stinker or two against Brighton and Palace and be nowhere near.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 5, 2017 16:40:41 GMT
And neither does Mark Hughes. Only because he was sacked with his club in a hopeless position, Dave. I suspect that is what you are hinting at! Have you seen how WBA are doing?
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Post by biglad180 on Nov 5, 2017 16:49:07 GMT
butlerstbob yes you are right mate I have wrote him off mate coz he is shit
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 16:51:59 GMT
It'll take either Hughes to recapture his mojo or a change of manager. I know which one I think is more likely. The reality is we should be capable of finishing 9th and that that looks laughable at the moment is because of Hughes' loss of the plot over the past couple of years. Is it laughable? We're currently only 3 points off ninth with a couple of good games ahead and an opportunity to get a few more points on the board, certainly a better chance than some others around us. It's been an up and down season certainly but in spite of that we're more or less keeping pace even if it's hard to predict how we are likely to play each week. The way I see it we could go either way. There's enough in this side to get a bit of a run going if we stay unbeaten up to Liverpool and given the decent performances against man United and arsenal I think we could pull off a result. Equally we could turn in a stinker or two against Brighton and Palace and be nowhere near. I’m talking about him properly getting his mojo back though and creating a side as good as the one at the end of his second season. That looks a million miles away.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 17:03:34 GMT
Is it laughable? We're currently only 3 points off ninth with a couple of good games ahead and an opportunity to get a few more points on the board, certainly a better chance than some others around us. It's been an up and down season certainly but in spite of that we're more or less keeping pace even if it's hard to predict how we are likely to play each week. The way I see it we could go either way. There's enough in this side to get a bit of a run going if we stay unbeaten up to Liverpool and given the decent performances against man United and arsenal I think we could pull off a result. Equally we could turn in a stinker or two against Brighton and Palace and be nowhere near. I’m talking about him properly getting his mojo back though and creating a side as good as the one at the end of his second season. That looks a million miles away. It does. Was that our zenith, I wonder? We only needed to tweak that side but it proved beyond us. Damned shame.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2017 17:17:57 GMT
Yes, provided he starts playing to his players to their strengths and give up on this three at the back bollox.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2017 17:20:23 GMT
It'll take either Hughes to recapture his mojo or a change of manager. I know which one I think is more likely. The reality is we should be capable of finishing 9th and that that looks laughable at the moment is because of Hughes' loss of the plot over the past couple of years. Is it laughable? We're currently only 3 points off ninth with a couple of good games ahead and an opportunity to get a few more points on the board, certainly a better chance than some others around us. It's been an up and down season certainly but in spite of that we're more or less keeping pace even if it's hard to predict how we are likely to play each week. The way I see it we could go either way. There's enough in this side to get a bit of a run going if we stay unbeaten up to Liverpool and given the decent performances against man United and arsenal I think we could pull off a result. Equally we could turn in a stinker or two against Brighton and Palace and be nowhere near. We are also 4 points off the relegation zone and not playing well. His tactics are all wrong for the players at his disposal.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 17:20:47 GMT
I’m talking about him properly getting his mojo back though and creating a side as good as the one at the end of his second season. That looks a million miles away. It does. Was that our zenith, I wonder? We only needed to tweak that side but it proved beyond us. Damned shame. Well, tweak it and replace its heartbeat...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 17:21:26 GMT
Mozzer imo as long as he keeps us in the PL that ensures TV and other media coverage of bet365, then Hughes is safe. Don't agree with that, we were safe and secure in this league under TP and he was shown the door eventually. TP's last season was certainly not one in which SCFC were safe and secure. I would say that season was the one that we came closest to going down.
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Post by potterspele on Nov 5, 2017 17:46:17 GMT
Is it laughable? We're currently only 3 points off ninth with a couple of good games ahead and an opportunity to get a few more points on the board, certainly a better chance than some others around us. It's been an up and down season certainly but in spite of that we're more or less keeping pace even if it's hard to predict how we are likely to play each week. The way I see it we could go either way. There's enough in this side to get a bit of a run going if we stay unbeaten up to Liverpool and given the decent performances against man United and arsenal I think we could pull off a result. Equally we could turn in a stinker or two against Brighton and Palace and be nowhere near. We are also 4 points off the relegation zone and not playing well. His tactics are all wrong for the players at his disposal. We're not playing badly though either and we've just managed 2 good results back to back. Tactics are still a mixed bag but I think it will improve once (if) we get Diouf back up front. If Edwards turns out to be decent then that will also help although definitely need to look at wing backs in January which I think we will.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 5, 2017 18:21:51 GMT
We are also 4 points off the relegation zone and not playing well. His tactics are all wrong for the players at his disposal. We're not playing badly though either and we've just managed 2 good results back to back. Tactics are still a mixed bag but I think it will improve once (if) we get Diouf back up front. If Edwards turns out to be decent then that will also help although definitely need to look at wing backs in January which I think we will. Agreed. In my opinion, we have already played 7 of the likely top 10 teams this season and 3 of which, Leicester, Watford and Southampton we have taken 7 points off. 3 of our other games have been away. Bournemouth was shocker but in part Shawcross being rushed back due to other injuries cost us the second goal. We conceded 2 late goals with no centre back and obviously let too many in at City but otherwise have defended okay while scoring more freely than last year - 2 against United and City and coming back twice yesterday - and better at corners, 4 goals so far this year suggesting more attention to detail. For me there is no doubt Diouf should play up front with Choupo and probably Jese and Shaq at 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or in our current shape with Shaq and Choupo, But despite playing without a central striker we are not far off our peers despite the tough start and an above average number of injuries to defenders. With a good injury free run we have 9 games to Boxing day, 8 of which we might expect points from. If this goes badly then time for a rethink but for now we are in reasonable shape in my view when we take the context of the season to date into account
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 5, 2017 18:54:19 GMT
We're not playing badly though either and we've just managed 2 good results back to back. Tactics are still a mixed bag but I think it will improve once (if) we get Diouf back up front. If Edwards turns out to be decent then that will also help although definitely need to look at wing backs in January which I think we will. Agreed. In my opinion, we have already played 7 of the likely top 10 teams this season and 3 of which, Leicester, Watford and Southampton we have taken 7 points off. 3 of our other games have been away. Bournemouth was shocker but in part Shawcross being rushed back due to other injuries cost us the second goal. We conceded 2 late goals with no centre back and obviously let too many in at City but otherwise have defended okay while scoring more freely than last year - 2 against United and City and coming back twice yesterday - and better at corners, 4 goals so far this year suggesting more attention to detail. For me there is no doubt Diouf should play up front with Choupo and probably Jese and Shaq at 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or in our current shape with Shaq and Choupo, But despite playing without a central striker we are not far off our peers despite the tough start and an above average number of injuries to defenders. With a good injury free run we have 9 games to Boxing day, 8 of which we might expect points from. If this goes badly then time for a rethink but for now we are in reasonable shape in my view when we take the context of the season to date into account Hallelujah. Bravo, calm and insightful. Bang on. Won't wash with the numpties with a short attention span.
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Post by chrisparker on Nov 5, 2017 20:25:58 GMT
It's not at all clear how much power Mark Hughes has on deciding transfer targets when in reality we have an entire transfer team to do just that. If you recall last season in a press conference when he was pressed on whether Stoke City were after Dortmund's pulisic, he replied by saying "he wasn't made aware of that he was on our transfer list" implying that he doesn't actually set up the list of possible transfer targets and that his only task is to approve the transfer targets, whether he'd be willing to coach them.
It's the transfer team's responsibility to do complete background checks on the players, deciding whether they're really any good. A manager can only do so much.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 20:34:06 GMT
It's not at all clear how much power Mark Hughes has on deciding transfer targets when in reality we have an entire transfer team to do just that. If you recall last season in a press conference when he was pressed on whether Stoke City were after Dortmund's pulisic, he replied by saying "he wasn't made aware of that he was on our transfer list" implying that he doesn't actually set up the list of possible transfer targets and that his only task is to approve the transfer targets, whether he'd be willing to coach them. It's the transfer team's responsibility to do complete background checks on the players, deciding whether they're really any good. A manager can only do so much. I don’t believe for a second we sign anyone the manager doesn’t want to sign.
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