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Post by superheroantonius on Nov 5, 2017 8:15:37 GMT
I think ' identity' and ' having a plan ' are both jargon
There is only one plan in professional football ... Get players in who can ride out the pressure when you are on the back foot , and grab you a goal when you are on top.
It's literally that simple . Unfortunately finding the players to do that is the tricky bit .
I think where we are at with Hughes , is he's finally swallowed his pride and said imbula has to go and be replaced with someone effective . Hooray to that ! We have ended up with Fletcher and we are better for it .
He now has to swallow his pride with berahino and replace him with someone effective and we will be fine
Either that, or be shown the door . We have to be able to take our chances when we are on top , ride out the pressure when we are not . Every team does.
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Post by reddipotter on Nov 5, 2017 8:34:44 GMT
One of the problems with 4-4-2 is that it forces Shaq deeper and expects him to help out defensively which he can't do. It's no coincidence that, after a good first half, he faded out of the game in the second as we changed formation.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 5, 2017 8:43:45 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. Spot on
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 5, 2017 8:58:15 GMT
Bad business in the summer hasn't helped.
No wingbacks. No CM beasts No strikers No pacey widemen
Yesterday we played with 2 wingbacks using our best striker and a LB who isn't a wingback.
A wideman who's no striker up front who's good out wide.
Injuries haven't helped but all this gobbledygook from the management team about giving youth a chance was just said said to give an excuse for us not spending much. Let's not forget we have 2 young WBs who haven't been given a sniff. Also what's happened to Verlinden and NGoy are they just not good enough?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 8:59:29 GMT
I think ' identity' and ' having a plan ' are both jargon There is only one plan in professional football ... Get players in who can ride out the pressure when you are on the back foot , and grab you a goal when you are on top. It's literally that simple . Unfortunately finding the players to do that is the tricky bit . I think where we are at with Hughes , is he's finally swallowed his pride and said imbula has to go and be replaced with someone effective . Hooray to that ! We have ended up with Fletcher and we are better for it . He now has to swallow his pride with berahino and replace him with someone effective and we will be fine Either that, or be shown the door . We have to be able to take our chances when we are on top , ride out the pressure when we are not . Every team does. Yeah, sorry, ‘having a plan’ is important in top level football in 2017. It’s not like Brian Clough’s day when players were just told to go out and express themselves.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 5, 2017 11:38:08 GMT
Need to focus on Plan B!
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Post by PB1863 on Nov 5, 2017 12:06:26 GMT
We only have 1 x game changer in the starting eleven and that’s Shaq. When Arnie was here we had two which kept the defenders guessing. Close Shaq down or he gets injured we have nothing..
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 13:24:05 GMT
I think ' identity' and ' having a plan ' are both jargon There is only one plan in professional football ... Get players in who can ride out the pressure when you are on the back foot , and grab you a goal when you are on top. It's literally that simple . Unfortunately finding the players to do that is the tricky bit . I think where we are at with Hughes , is he's finally swallowed his pride and said imbula has to go and be replaced with someone effective . Hooray to that ! We have ended up with Fletcher and we are better for it . He now has to swallow his pride with berahino and replace him with someone effective and we will be fine Either that, or be shown the door . We have to be able to take our chances when we are on top , ride out the pressure when we are not . Every team does. Yeah, sorry, ‘having a plan’ is important in top level football in 2017. It’s not like Brian Clough’s day when players were just told to go out and express themselves. Not sure football is fundamentally different now, the basics still apply. Despite the quote I imagine Clough's Forest were pretty well organised.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 13:29:49 GMT
Yeah, sorry, ‘having a plan’ is important in top level football in 2017. It’s not like Brian Clough’s day when players were just told to go out and express themselves. Not sure football is fundamentally different now, the basics still apply. Despite the quote I imagine Clough's Forest were pretty well organised. Clough’s players almost to a man say he wasn’t a tactician and scoffed at that side of things. Of course, that began to catch up with him as the tactical side of the game cane more to the fore. Tactics have long been ‘a thing’ obviously, going back to the Magyars, Chapman, Busby etc, but the difference is these days at this level you can’t get away, really, with just telling the lads to go out there and play their own game. A successful side has a set style of play. They might tweak it or occasionally even abandon it depending on the opposition, but generally they have a number of core traits that everyone is required to buy into.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 6, 2017 0:00:45 GMT
Not sure football is fundamentally different now, the basics still apply. Despite the quote I imagine Clough's Forest were pretty well organised. Clough’s players almost to a man say he wasn’t a tactician and scoffed at that side of things. Of course, that began to catch up with him as the tactical side of the game cane more to the fore. Tactics have long been ‘a thing’ obviously, going back to the Magyars, Chapman, Busby etc, but the difference is these days at this level you can’t get away, really, with just telling the lads to go out there and play their own game. A successful side has a set style of play. They might tweak it or occasionally even abandon it depending on the opposition, but generally they have a number of core traits that everyone is required to buy into.
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Post by Will_75 on Nov 6, 2017 9:43:07 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. That is a very good post.
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Post by Will_75 on Nov 6, 2017 9:50:15 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. If anything, it shows how good Crouch is that he keeps getting goals for us, whatever kind of mess the team is in by the time he comes on. I just wish people could appreciate what we've got in him, while we've got him. Yes plan A is deeply flawed, but our plan B isn't just a Stoke legend, he's an English football legend, a national bloody treasure and all round great bloke. I hope he stays here til he's 40, and then becomes the forwards coach - his technique, awareness and positioning are so good, even we can't stop him scoring.
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