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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 4, 2017 22:11:22 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. Brilliant mate ....this is where I am Literally no different to questioning what our identity is 😂😂
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Post by werrington on Nov 4, 2017 22:14:05 GMT
Brilliant mate ....this is where I am Literally no different to questioning what our identity is 😂😂 Here we go again It’s a game of football you win lose or draw trying to play the best you can Fuck off with identity mate
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Post by sportsman on Nov 4, 2017 22:18:39 GMT
Identity is only something useless pundits rely on to roll out the cliche's when they struggle to know anything about the team they're on about.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 4, 2017 22:23:20 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. Great post mate.
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Post by philm87 on Nov 4, 2017 22:24:41 GMT
Literally no different to questioning what our identity is 😂😂 Here we go again It’s a game of football you win lose or draw trying to play the best you can Fuck off with identity mate I don't like the word 'identity' either, but as someone else said just swap it with 'having a plan' and we are basically all saying the same thing. What is Hughes' Plan A? Try and play 3 at the back because Chelsea did it last season, pass it around without purpose and hope we nick something either from a setplay, defensive error from our opponent or a bit of magic from someone like Shaq. We have no real purpose other than just drifting through games. Plan B just involves putting Crouch on and going long. I'm okay with 4 points from our last two games and don't think we should be instantly gearing up to get rid of the manager, but it seems pretty clear he has relatively little idea about what he is doing as hasn't for at least 18 months now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2017 22:25:49 GMT
Yeah, people are losing their shit about the word ‘identity’ because of its Pulis connotations, but it’s really nothing to do with that.
Again, what kind of side are we? Are we a pressing team? Are we a counter attacking team? Are we a possession team?
Most successful sides have a set way of playing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 4, 2017 22:25:50 GMT
Literally no different to questioning what our identity is 😂😂 Here we go again It’s a game of football you win lose or draw trying to play the best you can Fuck off with identity mate Teams have a way of playing and that is an identity. You've literally agreed with a post that says that. We have nothing. We have no way of playing, we have no plan. You associate it with TP so you get arsey. It goes way past that.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Nov 4, 2017 22:27:26 GMT
For what it's worth, I think the points raised on here are valid. Word it however you want. Identity, DNA, pattern of play, style of play. Whatever, it still means the same. We have been very ropey now for nearly two full seasons. That isn't knee jerk. It's an opinion that i've quietly held to myself each week. Watching the various chopping and changing of starting line ups, patterns of play, corner and free kick routines, substitutions...and digging deeper various player roles and players picked for those roles. I've tried to sit there and talk myself out of it, casting my mind back to the infamous day out at Wigan on the grass bank. It's all relative. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances to a point - a horrendous injury list and to be frank, a chronic lack of real funding and far too much risk taking in the transfer market. However, when push comes to shove you just have to get on with it and make do with what you've got. Has he? I'm not sure. As a one off example, the treatment of our strikers has been just baffling. I could understand it if our manager was an ex Leek Town goalkeeper but we're talking about one of the finest strikers of his generation. A bloke who knew how to finish and knew the kind of service a world class striker needed to prosper. Other than Peter Crouch, a 36 year old targetman, he has simply failed to get the best out of every other striker he's had since Diouf. The service to all of our strikers has been non existent in the worst extreme and very inconsistent in the best case scenario. It hasn't been corrected despite a complete turnaround of personnel in the attacking third over his tenure here. From Arnautovic, Assaidi, Ireland to Moting, Shaqiri and Ramadan thru' Bojan, Odemwingie, Moses et al. I'm trying not to be negative. Really i aren't. I love this club and would follow it till the cows came home regardless of division we find ourselves in. I have never really felt in any type of real danger under Hughes, and some of the football has been good in sporadic bursts. At it's worst, it's better than the last bloke, which makes it all the more confusing as to why I sit there most weeks feeling like I do. I just come away from games totally at a loss as to what we are trying to do. One week we play football, the next we are direct, one week it's three at the back with wing backs that aren't really wing backs, the next it's a flat back four with an 18 year old rookie lobbed in at right back against Leroy Sane. Today we've seen Kurt Zouma playing as a full back in game. It was horrendous. Why are we doing it when we are literally shitting money each season? We pay our CEO just shy of 1M, our manager god knows what, we pour gods know what into our Academy, our recruitment is as funded as it's ever been yet here we are chopping and changing just flapping around in a rowing boat with one paddle. Supporters are ungrateful, spiteful, hypocritical know nothings at the best of times and yes, i'm up there with the worst of them. Is it just too much to ask, win lose or draw, to build a team that plays a certain way (i'm not that bothered which way to be fair), has players that can come in and do a job when the first choice gets injured and when things get really hairy, have a set of youngsters ready to step up? A lot of that can be applied to all Premier League clubs too, which makes it all the more frustrating at a higher level. Things need to change. Brilliant mate ....this is where I am That just about sums us up in a nutshell mate we are in a mess & its no good trying to say otherwise last weeks win just gave Hughes a little more time in my mind & covered up a good many cracks. Today we should have been 3 down at half time we were dire at the back with this zonal marking crap. I will always support the team but its very hard going at the moment.
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Post by sportsman on Nov 4, 2017 22:31:27 GMT
Yeah, people are losing their shit about the word ‘identity’ because of its Pulis connotations, but it’s really nothing to do with that. Again, what kind of side are we? Are we a pressing team? Are we a counter attacking team? Are we a possession team? Most successful sides have a set way of playing. What way do man utd play, because I see something different most weeks, a bit of everything.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 4, 2017 22:31:33 GMT
Stoke City's identity is underachievement. We've had it for 150 years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:33:33 GMT
Stoke City's identity is underachievement. We've had it for 150 years. And whiny fans. Underachievement and whiny fans.....
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2017 22:34:02 GMT
Yeah, people are losing their shit about the word ‘identity’ because of its Pulis connotations, but it’s really nothing to do with that. Again, what kind of side are we? Are we a pressing team? Are we a counter attacking team? Are we a possession team? Most successful sides have a set way of playing. What way do man utd play, because I see something different most weeks, a bit of everything. They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2017 22:34:37 GMT
Stoke City's identity is underachievement. We've had it for 150 years. Yet you’ve agreed with Onlooker who was basically making the same point?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 4, 2017 22:34:39 GMT
Yeah, people are losing their shit about the word ‘identity’ because of its Pulis connotations, but it’s really nothing to do with that. Again, what kind of side are we? Are we a pressing team? Are we a counter attacking team? Are we a possession team? Most successful sides have a set way of playing. And that's what I don't get. The best teams have a set way of playing, you know generally how they're going to play. And football has (in my lifetime) always been like that.
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Post by BuckRogers on Nov 4, 2017 22:34:46 GMT
I'm. Clueless what plan A is at the moment. We're just drifting along going know where fast,sinking slowly
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:35:52 GMT
What way do man utd play, because I see something different most weeks, a bit of everything. They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. So how would you sum that up as an identity?
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Post by bettyswallox on Nov 4, 2017 22:36:22 GMT
Mate next to me today asked what our identity is as a team?Its a very good question and one I couldn’t answer Another stick to beat a manger with. What identity do you want? It's a pointless question. Agreed. It's obviously better if we go forward without any coherent plan whatsoever.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 4, 2017 22:36:23 GMT
Stoke City's identity is underachievement. We've had it for 150 years. And whiny fans. Underachievement and whiny fans..... And Wright's pies. Underachievement, whiny fans and Wright's pies.
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Post by wuzza on Nov 4, 2017 22:37:10 GMT
A lot of valid points here. The confusion amongst the support is, unfortunately, quite often reflected on the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:37:13 GMT
And whiny fans. Underachievement and whiny fans..... And Wright's pies. Underachievement, whiny fans and Wright's pies. Mmmmm. Wright's Pies.......
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 4, 2017 22:37:21 GMT
I'm. Clueless what plan A is at the moment. We're just drifting along going know where fast,sinking slowly Are we drifting or sinking?
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 4, 2017 22:37:58 GMT
What way do man utd play, because I see something different most weeks, a bit of everything. They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. That isn't their identity though is it? You associate Man Utd with flair players playing expansive attacking football.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2017 22:38:38 GMT
They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. So how would you sum that up as an identity? An identity is just a set way of playing. That’s literally what’s meant on this thread. So their identity is bound up with Mourinho’s. Their identity is as a Mourinho side. Physical, cynical, boring at times but pacey and industrious.
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Post by sportsman on Nov 4, 2017 22:39:02 GMT
They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. So how would you sum that up as an identity? Exactly. Adaptable I'd say.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:39:18 GMT
So how would you sum that up as an identity? An identity is just a set way of playing. That’s literally what’s meant on this thread. So their identity is bound up with Mourinho’s. Their identity is as a Mourinho side. Physical, cynical, boring at times but pacey and industrious. Sounds like several identities to me does that....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 4, 2017 22:40:08 GMT
They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. That isn't their identity though is it? You associate Man Utd with flair players playing expansive attacking football. It is at the minute. That's Mourinho's identity. It can change. 😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:40:27 GMT
So how would you sum that up as an identity? Exactly. Adaptable I'd say. Adaptable like launching it long to Fellani like we launch it long to Crouch for example?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2017 22:41:26 GMT
They’re hard working and solid and have bags of pace in the final third. They park the bus in big games and tend to open up more against the cannon fodder. That isn't their identity though is it? You associate Man Utd with flair players playing expansive attacking football. Again, people are losing their shit over the word ‘identity’. This isn’t a historical identity like the West Ham way or any of that stuff. It’s rooted purely in the here and now. Huddersfield’s identity in 2017 is gegenpressing and being a mini-Liverpool. It has shit all to do with Herbert Chapman winning the league in the 30s. Drop the word identity if it helps and go with ‘set way of playing’. Because that’s what’s meant.
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Post by bettyswallox on Nov 4, 2017 22:41:38 GMT
So how would you sum that up as an identity? An identity is just a set way of playing. That’s literally what’s meant on this thread. So their identity is bound up with Mourinho’s. Their identity is as a Mourinho side. Physical, cynical, boring at times but pacey and industrious. Yep, you've managed to narrow down Utd to about 5 different components at which they excel. Us? We're bang average at most things and poor at some others. I can't think of anything we're above average at (apart from conceding from set pieces).
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 4, 2017 22:42:20 GMT
That isn't their identity though is it? You associate Man Utd with flair players playing expansive attacking football. It is at the minute. That's Mourinho's identity. It can change. 😂😂 Lol, what a fucking pointless discussion.
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