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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 0:13:16 GMT
I honestly though we looked very good up to the sub, the plan B got the goal but we looked shite in attack from the point we changed to 442 until the end of the game.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 0:14:28 GMT
I just don't understand how people keep dismissing Crouch's contribution to the squad like it doesn't count because he's getting on a bit. He's scored 3 goals from the bench gaining us 4 point yet Hughes gets zero credit for turning to him because apparently it's embarrassing we still rely on him? It's just bizarre..... And honesty, we're you even slightly surprised that Crouch scored? I know I wasn't. I take a previous poster's point about relying on him forever, though. Of course we should be succession planning he can't go on forever. But as well as scoring today he looked a genuine threat and the game dynamics changed instantly. Nothing to be ashamed of as far as I'm concerned....
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:15:20 GMT
I just don't understand how people keep dismissing Crouch's contribution to the squad like it doesn't count because he's getting on a bit. He's scored 3 goals from the bench gaining us 4 point yet Hughes gets zero credit for turning to him because apparently it's embarrassing we still rely on him? It's just bizarre..... It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:17:54 GMT
It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. You might be embarrassed, I'm not. If it's such a simple form of football why are teams not dealing with it? They can't because if you get the ball into the box it's effective........ The shame of crossing a ball to a big guy who scores goals with his head. I feel sullied.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 0:19:27 GMT
It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. In all the bluster and excitement people miss the good interplay that leads to the likes of the Choupo Moting chance and the Shaqiri goal. Reading this board at times you'd think we literally don't string two passes together......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2017 0:27:04 GMT
It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. In all the bluster and excitement people miss the good interplay that leads to the likes of the Choupo Moting chance and the Shaqiri goal. Reading this board at times you'd think we literally don't string two passes together...... That’s very much the exception rather than the rule though. If we could open teams up with that kind of quick passing more often rather than being ponderous and static in the final third so often we’d be onto something.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 0:28:38 GMT
I don't believe there's another team in the Prem that has remotely changed formation mid match as often as we have this season.
The amount of times we've started the game with three at the back but then ultimately decided to switch to a flat back four (sometimes before we've even got to half time!) is staggering.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:29:48 GMT
In all the bluster and excitement people miss the good interplay that leads to the likes of the Choupo Moting chance and the Shaqiri goal. Reading this board at times you'd think we literally don't string two passes together...... That’s very much the exception rather than the rule though. If we could open teams up with that kind of quick passing more often rather than being ponderous and static in the final third so often we’d be onto something. It definitely hasn't happened enough. We have so many inconsistent, hit and miss players, though.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:32:15 GMT
I don't believe there's another team in the Prem that has remotely changed formation mid match as often as we have this season. The amount of times we've started the game with three at the back but then ultimately decided to switch to a flat back four (sometimes before we've even got to half time!) is staggering. We're like one of those songs from Jazz Club on the Fast Show. Nice!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 0:34:08 GMT
It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. In all the bluster and excitement people miss the good interplay that leads to the likes of the Choupo Moting chance and the Shaqiri goal. Reading this board at times you'd think we literally don't string two passes together...... How many crosses (both good or bad) did our wing backs (Pieters and Diouf) put into the box today? Genuine question.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:40:20 GMT
It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. You might be embarrassed, I'm not. If it's such a simple form of football why are teams not dealing with it? They can't because if you get the ball into the box it's effective........ Hughes being the 'he' that has poo pooed it. As a plan B I have no issue with it but it's the only plan.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 5, 2017 0:40:54 GMT
In all the bluster and excitement people miss the good interplay that leads to the likes of the Choupo Moting chance and the Shaqiri goal. Reading this board at times you'd think we literally don't string two passes together...... How many crosses (both good or bad) did our wing backs (Pieters and Diouf) put into the box today? Genuine question. I wasn't counting but I'd wager far more than the combined talents of fbs Johnson and Pieters and inverted wingers Shaq, Arnie or \moses eer provided in the 4231. I dunno I'm guesstimating about 6?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:41:00 GMT
You might be embarrassed, I'm not. If it's such a simple form of football why are teams not dealing with it? They can't because if you get the ball into the box it's effective........ The shame of crossing a ball to a big guy who scores goals with his head. I feel sullied. We don't cross the ball though! 😂😂
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:42:39 GMT
It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. We pass across the lines going nowhere. It's as dull as it ever was under TP but for different reasons.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 0:43:50 GMT
How many crosses (both good or bad) did our wing backs (Pieters and Diouf) put into the box today? Genuine question. I wasn't counting but I'd wager far more than the combined talents of fbs Johnson and Pieters and inverted wingers Shaq, Arnie or \moses eer provided in the 4231. I dunno I'm guesstimating about 6? I can recall just the one (a poor one at that) from Diouf in the second half.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:44:21 GMT
The shame of crossing a ball to a big guy who scores goals with his head. I feel sullied. We don't cross the ball though! 😂😂 Not enough, I agree. I have banged on about it all season!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:44:52 GMT
I don't believe there's another team in the Prem that has remotely changed formation mid match as often as we have this season. The amount of times we've started the game with three at the back but then ultimately decided to switch to a flat back four (sometimes before we've even got to half time!) is staggering. It is but it's ok cos we've got Crouch. It just highlights one of the biggest issues with us at the minute massively. This whole lack of identity/planA/a plan at all/pattern of play. He hasn't got a clue what his best side is for the third season running. That's not ok.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 5, 2017 0:46:51 GMT
I was one of the advocates of playing 3 at the back but I've realised it's not working.
We need to get back to 4 at the back and get Zouma into midfield.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:48:41 GMT
It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. We pass across the lines going nowhere. It's as dull as it ever was under TP but for different reasons. Sometimes it is, I agree. We aren't direct enough, and I don't mean resorting to hoofball, just simple things like beating your man and crossing the ball. It still works.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:49:04 GMT
I was one of the advocates of playing 3 at the back but I've realised it's not working. We need to get back to 4 at the back and get Zouma into midfield. I've been a long term advocate of Zouma in midfield but the more I see of him, the more that thought worries me. He dawdles on the ball something rotten.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 0:50:30 GMT
I was one of the advocates of playing 3 at the back but I've realised it's not working. We need to get back to 4 at the back and get Zouma into midfield. I've been a long term advocate of Zouma in midfield but the more I see of him, the more that thought worries me. He dawdles on the ball something rotten. He'd be better than Fletcher there though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:50:58 GMT
We pass across the lines going nowhere. It's as dull as it ever was under TP but for different reasons. Sometimes it is, I agree. We aren't direct enough, and I don't mean resorting to hoofball, just simple things like beating your man and crossing the ball. It still works. We don't do that at all and I don't think Hughes actually wants players doing that. Their first goal came from Shaq not driving forward when that was his only real option. Instead he turned back and passed it to their player. Completely unavoidable and totally down to our tactics.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:52:41 GMT
I've been a long term advocate of Zouma in midfield but the more I see of him, the more that thought worries me. He dawdles on the ball something rotten. He'd be better than Fletcher there though. He would but that's no accolade. And will he give Edwards the chance? I really don't know how he could carry on with Choupo up front though but I said that from the Arsenal game. He's a stubborn git.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 5, 2017 0:57:07 GMT
Sometimes it is, I agree. We aren't direct enough, and I don't mean resorting to hoofball, just simple things like beating your man and crossing the ball. It still works. We don't do that at all and I don't think Hughes actually wants players doing that. Their first goal came from Shaq not driving forward when that was his only real option. Instead he turned back and passed it to their player. Completely unavoidable and totally down to our tactics. I do wonder at times if it's Hughes or players trying to be too fancy, as if they think old fashioned wing play is somehow beneath them? The few times we have crossed the ball this season we have had success with it. It's still a massive part of the game.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 5, 2017 0:58:52 GMT
I wasn't counting but I'd wager far more than the combined talents of fbs Johnson and Pieters and inverted wingers Shaq, Arnie or \moses eer provided in the 4231. I dunno I'm guesstimating about 6? I can recall just the one (a poor one at that) from Diouf in the second half. Well at least two from Erik, and a couple of tricklers from Diouf as starters. I'll have to watch it again for a more accurate figure. Stand by my contention that we cross more now than at at any time with the 4231. Not that crossing is everything with our starting front line. We're scoring from corners, that's a cross ain't it? We havn't done that for 4 years or so.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2017 0:58:55 GMT
We don't do that at all and I don't think Hughes actually wants players doing that. Their first goal came from Shaq not driving forward when that was his only real option. Instead he turned back and passed it to their player. Completely unavoidable and totally down to our tactics. I do wonder at times if it's Hughes or players trying to be too fancy, as if they think old fashioned wing play is somehow beneath them? The few times we have crossed the ball this season we have had success with it. It's still a massive part of the game. I think it's Hughes. Ramadan was as direct as any player we've had in the last 5/6 years when he signed and he's had it completely coached out of him.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 1:12:33 GMT
I can recall just the one (a poor one at that) from Diouf in the second half. Well at least two from Erik, and a couple of tricklers from Diouf as starters. I'll have to watch it again for a more accurate figure. Stand by my contention that we cross more now than at at any time with the 4231. Not that crossing is everything with our starting front line. We're scoring from corners, that's a cross ain't it? We havn't done that for 4 years or so.
Nope, I certainly can't argue with that sort of incisive insight.
Great argument ... case closed.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 5, 2017 1:17:56 GMT
Well at least two from Erik, and a couple of tricklers from Diouf as starters. I'll have to watch it again for a more accurate figure. Stand by my contention that we cross more now than at at any time with the 4231. Not that crossing is everything with our starting front line. We're scoring from corners, that's a cross ain't it? We havn't done that for 4 years or so.
Nope, I certainly can't argue with that sort of incisive insight.
Great argument ... case closed.
A corner is often the product of a blocked cross. Just driving the victory home, I'm glad I've won the debate Paul.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 5, 2017 1:19:13 GMT
Nope, I certainly can't argue with that sort of incisive insight.
Great argument ... case closed.
A corner is often the product of a blocked cross. Just driving the victory home, I'm glad I've won the debate Paul. Oh you've absolutely nailed it there chap. Fair play to you.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2017 2:09:20 GMT
It's embarrasing because he's tried to replace him at every turn and failed massively at every turn. We have no plan A and have to rely on the simplest form of football that he poo poos. We've gone back to square one from where TP left. Nothing has changed. It's changed in that Hughes at least tries to play football first(like the Shaqiri goal and the Moting miss from Ramadan's through ball). At times under Pulis, it was all Crouch flick ons to Walters. Yes, but...we don’t have the players to play the way Hughes wants to play. I’d rather start with Plan B, score two or three goals, and then play some pretty triangles to entertain the football snobs.
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