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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 17, 2017 14:09:34 GMT
Pursuing Wimmer means the club are lying about their plans for Ryan imo. There is no way one of the those 4 cb's will be happy sitting on the bench. I'm not sure about that, I think if we're sticking with 3 at the back another quality cb is a must.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 17, 2017 14:58:41 GMT
A kevin Wimmer signing would show the absurdity of views held by many that free transfers somehow suggest a lower level or less desirable player, and a player's quality or worth can perhaps be measured in proportion to the fee paid for him.
We could see a situation develop where. if we played 3 at the back, the first choice trio cost less than £10 million together and the back up guy cost half as much again.
Ryan was signed for an initial fee of 1 million. BMI apparently cost us around £7.5 million and Zouma is on loan. Wimmer on the other hand could potentially be sold by Spurs for a siginificant sum of around £15 million, and yet only arrive here as a back up to the other 3, despite what we might have to pay for him.
I am sure he wouldn't start as an automatic first choice despite a big price tag, so ultimately the fee paid for any particular player can be demonstrated to be irrelevant.
This scenario puts those who have reservations about the quality and potential of Maxim Choupa Moting for example, merely for the reason that he moved on a free transfer, rather firmly in their place.
The club should not be criticized for not spending huge sums so far in the transfer window, whilst they have been quietly doing some very good business. I am sure there would be equal disapproval if we got into a bidding war and paid over the odds for a player like Wimmer, especially if West Brom were involved.
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Post by Fred Merger on Aug 17, 2017 15:03:35 GMT
A kevin Wimmer signing would show the absurdity of views held by many that free transfers somehow suggest a lower level or less desirable player, and a player's quality or worth can perhaps be measured in proportion to the fee paid for him. We could see a situation develop where. if we played 3 at the back, the first choice trio cost less than £10 million together and the back up guy cost half as much again. Ryan was signed for an initial fee of 1 million. BMI apparently cost us around £7.5 million and Zouma is on loan. Wimmer on the other hand could potentially be sold by Spurs for a siginificant sum of around £15 million, and yet only arrive here as a back up to the other 3, despite what we might have to pay for him. I am sure he wouldn't start as an automatic first choice despite a big price tag, so ultimately the fee paid for any particular player can be demonstrated to be irrelevant. This scenario puts those who have reservations about the quality and potential of Maxim Choupa Moting for example, merely for the reason that he moved on a free transfer, rather firmly in their place. The club should not be criticized for not spending huge sums so far in the transfer window, whilst they have been quietly doing some very good business. I am sure there would be equal disapproval if we got into a bidding war and paid over the odds for a player like Wimmer, especially if West Brom were involved. Think we should go in just to push the price up for WBA,then walk away and pay the 8 million or so for Engels!
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 17, 2017 15:29:57 GMT
Hope we won't get shafted by Levy again! Maybe better to stay clear?
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 17, 2017 15:57:33 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB.
We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once.
With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season.
Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea.
Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 17, 2017 16:00:55 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB. We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once. With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season. Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea. Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice. The question remains though Trousers, what's in it for him? Why swap Spurs' bench for ours? A young, promising, nearly-ready or ready CB makes a world of sense. Another high profile one doesn't.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 17, 2017 16:06:05 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB. We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once. With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season. Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea. Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice. I agree completely, if Woody goes we need another centre back for the reasons you say. We also need midfielder unless Afellay is back very soon and even then I would like one more
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 17, 2017 16:14:53 GMT
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Post by kustokie on Aug 17, 2017 16:26:55 GMT
Ryan was terrific against Everton so to suggest we are trying to either force him out or replace him is just plain daft. I agree Ryan was much improved against Everton and back to his old self. The facts remain he has not been consistently good for some time and has had a back issue, and maybe he still has a (potential) one. It is good business practice to have succession/cover plans. The plan is clearly to play 3 at the back and we generally agree Cameron, Muni, and Wolly are not to the standard required and we need at least 4, possibly 5*, top class players to cover those 3 positions. * If we had 4 (3 playing and one on the bench) you can be pretty sure at least 1 will be unavailable due to injury or suspension. So acquiring a 5th first rate CB sounds good to me. Shawcross has been a great servant to Stoke - the best CB since Denis Smith. However, he may have two or three good years left, if (and it's a big if) his back holds up. Also, his game was dependent in good measure on man-handling his opponent in the box, which he can't do with the change in the rules on set pieces. He used to contribute a handful of goals every season from set pieces and we were the best in the league at defending them. That's no longer the case and we have to look to the future.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 16:34:37 GMT
That was a popular thread..............
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Post by WhyDelilah on Aug 17, 2017 16:36:59 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB. We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once. With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season. Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea. Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice. "The greatest football manager that the professional game never had" bayernoatcake
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 17, 2017 16:39:15 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB. We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once. With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season. Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea. Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice. The question remains though Trousers, what's in it for him? Why swap Spurs' bench for ours? A young, promising, nearly-ready or ready CB makes a world of sense. Another high profile one doesn't. I can see trousers' logic in saying we need another CB, especially with the calamitous decision to allow Wolly to seek pastures new, but I agree with the toxic one that a player of the profile of Engels makes more sense than allowing Levy to shaft us yet again with a top notch price for a player who will undoubtedly only move for a regular first team place (which I am not sure we are in a position to offer him right now).
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 17, 2017 17:00:18 GMT
That was a popular thread.............. Lost amongst the quagmire and deluge of shite that's posted on there but again you know who is the real ITK guru now. Gouranga.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 17:02:00 GMT
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 17, 2017 17:06:29 GMT
That was a popular thread.............. Lost amongst the quagmire and deluge of shite that's posted on there but again you know who is the real ITK guru now. Gouranga. Tony tells me different, he's never heard of you apparently so unless you're tucked up with Carto at night I doubt you really are ITK.
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 17, 2017 17:40:17 GMT
The question remains though Trousers, what's in it for him? Why swap Spurs' bench for ours? A young, promising, nearly-ready or ready CB makes a world of sense. Another high profile one doesn't. I can see trousers' logic in saying we need another CB, especially with the calamitous decision to allow Wolly to seek pastures new, but I agree with the toxic one that a player of the profile of Engels makes more sense than allowing Levy to shaft us yet again with a top notch price for a player who will undoubtedly only move for a regular first team place (which I am not sure we are in a position to offer him right now). Perhaps he's earmarked to replace one of the three current starters sooner than we might think!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 17, 2017 17:52:19 GMT
Although it might not make sense to the greatest football manager that the professional game never had (hello again, bayern) to me it makes perfect sense to sign another CB. We're playing 3-4-3 this year whether you like it or not (at least as one of two or three regular gameplans anyway) and so need 3 starters and 2 players who are competent cover. Considering that Cameron is one of those 2 then chances are he'll be strutting his stuff in midfield or RWB for a significant number of games, and he can't be in 2 places at once. With Zouma only here for 12 months and Ryan out of contract next summer and looking a bit creaky these days, it's a no-brainer to bring in someone now who'll be in the team in a year's time (if not sooner) and acting as quality competition for the 3 starters for the forthcoming season. Although we have 2 good young CBs in Souttar and Sweeney coming through the ranks, I think both need to prove themselves at a higher level than they've done so far before we can class them as first team options. If Sweeney can get 6 months of Championship football under his belt from January onwards, then he'll be in pole position to step up as first-choice cover once Zouma goes back to Chelsea. Signing Wimmer means there's less pressure to get another CM through the door as having Cameron and Adam as back-ups to Allen and Fletcher should then suffice. The question remains though Trousers, what's in it for him? Why swap Spurs' bench for ours? A young, promising, nearly-ready or ready CB makes a world of sense. Another high profile one doesn't. Zouma as a midfield option maybe, sign a defender instead and push him forward gives us time to look for someone else.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2017 18:38:24 GMT
I can see trousers' logic in saying we need another CB, especially with the calamitous decision to allow Wolly to seek pastures new, but I agree with the toxic one that a player of the profile of Engels makes more sense than allowing Levy to shaft us yet again with a top notch price for a player who will undoubtedly only move for a regular first team place (which I am not sure we are in a position to offer him right now). Perhaps he's earmarked to replace one of the three current starters sooner than we might think! Which would be absolutely cretinous. We don't we'd him unless Zouma goes back to Chelsea before the window closes.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 17, 2017 20:17:43 GMT
Spurs supposedly paying £42m for the Ajax defender as a replacement
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 17, 2017 20:21:03 GMT
Is your E-Peen nice and erect now Albert? Look at me! Look at me! I was first!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 20:23:11 GMT
The thing I don't get about Wimmer, he doesn't seem to be a regular in either the Spurs or the Austria team and the latter are hardly world beaters? Not seen that much of him but is he all that?
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Post by TexasPotter on Aug 17, 2017 20:27:42 GMT
Rather Engels or Mechele from Brugge than the overpriced Austrian.
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 17, 2017 20:41:31 GMT
Perhaps he's earmarked to replace one of the three current starters sooner than we might think! Which would be absolutely cretinous. We don't we'd him unless Zouma goes back to Chelsea before the window closes. Having a Benji moment there, bayern?!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 17, 2017 20:48:05 GMT
Interest in Wimmer was weeks ago and any interest died once BMI signed.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2017 20:51:19 GMT
Which would be absolutely cretinous. We don't we'd him unless Zouma goes back to Chelsea before the window closes. Having a Benji moment there, bayern?! I've been up since 4.30am doing a 14 hour shift. We'd is meant to be need. I'd rather we signed a left wing back, a player we desperately need and use Pieters as back. It makes way more sense.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2017 20:51:52 GMT
Interest in Wimmer was weeks ago and any interest died once BMI signed. It was and no it hasn't.
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 17, 2017 20:51:59 GMT
It has been decweed.
Levy will welease Wimmer!!!!
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 17, 2017 21:00:15 GMT
Having a Benji moment there, bayern?! I've been up since 4.30am doing a 14 hour shit. We'd is meant to be need. I'd rather we signed a left wing back, a player we desperately need and use Pieters as back. It makes way more sense.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2017 21:02:38 GMT
I've been up since 4.30am doing a 14 hour shit. We'd is meant to be need. I'd rather we signed a left wing back, a player we desperately need and use Pieters as back. It makes way more sense. Oh do one
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 17, 2017 21:18:35 GMT
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