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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 7, 2017 15:48:45 GMT
Which European clubs will be able to afford a Premier League club's best players? A handful I'd suggest. And a lot of clubs are going to be made aware of these intentions from pretty early in the window. It's therefore on them to prepare for that eventuality. It's good news. There's an argument to be had that it could make things worse. Suppose a rich European team loses their best player to injury in the first match; they go after a PL player and make "an offer they can't refuse". Now the PL team loses their best player and can't replace him until January. As I said, who is in a position to afford that? Barca. Real Madrid. Who else? Barcelona couldn't get Coutinho in with the whole of the current transfer window.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 15:49:17 GMT
If that's right that's a recipe for disaster. You've done all your buying and are more than happy with your team on 9th August. Then your top goalie, Centre half and striker get proper tapped up by a foreign club and all put transfer requests in. Now I know you don't have to sell but the players don't have to play either do they, the team becomes completely destabalised and you're in the shit until January. I'm all for shortening the window but it seems like madness to even consider not co-ordinating it with the rest of Europe. Yes they do. What happened to the idea of signing a contract? If that was to happen a player would simply be suspended by his club on no wages till he decided to play. Is that why we forced the Austrian Knob Slinger to stay and play for us for another 4 years?
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Post by johnbutlershair on Sept 7, 2017 15:52:12 GMT
There's an argument to be had that it could make things worse. Suppose a rich European team loses their best player to injury in the first match; they go after a PL player and make "an offer they can't refuse". Now the PL team loses their best player and can't replace him until January. As I said, who is in a position to afford that? Barca. Real Madrid. Who else? Barcelona couldn't get Coutinho in with the whole of the current transfer window. With the knock on effect of transfers a lot of clubs. Monaco have got over 100 million coming to them in the summer. Dortmund have the Dembele money etc. If man city/psg/Bayern/ Madrid/Barca etc buy a player from another club for silly money that club then have the money to spend. What happens if Roma bid 30 million for Shaqiri in mid August. It leaves us up shit creek
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 7, 2017 15:53:57 GMT
Should be open all year (tin hat on). Why tin hat on?. Back in the old days that was case and it was OK. I'm all in for all season window under the condition that it'll be only English players who can be transferred all season. It was OK in the old days when it was a more level playing field. But today any of the big clubs would be able to keep improving their team to get into Europe all through the season. They can buy virtually all the best players now and keep many of them sat on the bench all season. Smaller clubs would have no chance, instead of minimal chance of winning anything.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 7, 2017 15:57:22 GMT
As I said, who is in a position to afford that? Barca. Real Madrid. Who else? Barcelona couldn't get Coutinho in with the whole of the current transfer window. With the knock on effect of transfers a lot of clubs. Monaco have got over 100 million coming to them in the summer. Dortmund have the Dembele money etc. If man city/psg/Bayern/ Madrid/Barca etc buy a player from another club for silly money that club then have the money to spend. What happens if Roma bid 30 million for Shaqiri in mid August. It leaves us up shit creek We say no, we don't have to sell now, like other clubs have done? Can Roma afford to pay Shaqiri what we're paying him? For all the money they've got coming in, neither Monaco nor Dortmund look to really splash the cash massively. They pay pretty sensible fees for up and coming youngsters who they sell on for massive money.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 7, 2017 15:58:04 GMT
PL clubs won't want to sell players if they're not in a position to replace them. But as been seen by the actions of some players they can force moves. Some clubs can stand strong but most won't. Plus a lot of players have release clauses etc, if they're met after our transfer window closes, nothing the club can do to stop that sale. Isn't that up to them? If they choose to sell, knowing they cannot replace till the next window opens, then that is for them to suffer any consequences. If the Prem have chosen to go this way knowing their players have release clauses then they suffer the consequences. Surely that will mainly apply to the top clubs/best players anyway?
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Post by sportsman on Sept 7, 2017 16:04:23 GMT
As I said, who is in a position to afford that? Barca. Real Madrid. Who else? Barcelona couldn't get Coutinho in with the whole of the current transfer window. With the knock on effect of transfers a lot of clubs. Monaco have got over 100 million coming to them in the summer. Dortmund have the Dembele money etc. If man city/psg/Bayern/ Madrid/Barca etc buy a player from another club for silly money that club then have the money to spend. What happens if Roma bid 30 million for Shaqiri in mid August. It leaves us up shit creek Why would they bid 30m? Do you think he's worth 30m? Would he be worth 30m 4 weeks earlier? If not then it's Roma's daft fault for not bidding less 4 weeks earlier. Like I said prem clubs can either say do one, or accept silly money after our window shuts. Just don't think European clubs will suddenly wait until our window shuts to offer way more than they could offer a few weeks earlier.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 16:06:13 GMT
But as been seen by the actions of some players they can force moves. Some clubs can stand strong but most won't. Plus a lot of players have release clauses etc, if they're met after our transfer window closes, nothing the club can do to stop that sale. Isn't that up to them? If they choose to sell, knowing they cannot replace till the next window opens, then that is for them to suffer any consequences. If the Prem have chosen to go this way knowing their players have release clauses then they suffer the consequences. Surely that will mainly apply to the top clubs/best players anyway? But it's clubs like Stoke, who in order to attract bigger and better players, have to offer them buyout clauses. If these players knew we could hold them to a 4 or 5 year contract come what may and despite who might subsequently come in for them we'd never get them to sign in the first place. It's hard enough as it is ffs.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 7, 2017 16:11:52 GMT
Yes they do. What happened to the idea of signing a contract? If that was to happen a player would simply be suspended by his club on no wages till he decided to play. Is that why we forced the Austrian Knob Slinger to stay and play for us for another 4 years? No. We chose to sell that greedy individual, because we were offered a lot of money, more than he was worth IMO, and had plenty of time to sign replacements. Excellent business.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 7, 2017 16:15:44 GMT
Isn't that up to them? If they choose to sell, knowing they cannot replace till the next window opens, then that is for them to suffer any consequences. If the Prem have chosen to go this way knowing their players have release clauses then they suffer the consequences. Surely that will mainly apply to the top clubs/best players anyway? But it's clubs like Stoke, who in order to attract bigger and better players, have to offer them buyout clauses. If these players knew we could hold them to a 4 or 5 year contract come what may and despite who might subsequently come in for them we'd never get them to sign in the first place. It's hard enough as it is ffs. I'm quite sure the club were well aware that Bojan, Arni, Shaqiri etc. would want to leave as soon as they got their careers' on track, as is the case with more recent signings. It's what we do now to try and compete with the big clubs and avoid relegation. Peter Coates is nobody's fool and knows what he has voted for.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 16:17:50 GMT
Is that why we forced the Austrian Knob Slinger to stay and play for us for another 4 years? No. We chose to sell that greedy individual, because we were offered a lot of money, more than he was worth IMO, and had plenty of time to sign replacements. Excellent business. I'm not disagreeing with most of what you say but can you imagine his attitude if we'd refused to sell him this summer? Do you honestly think he would have given his all for us until the next window or until we agreed to sell him?
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Post by nott1 on Sept 7, 2017 16:27:53 GMT
A lot of the clubs in Europe don't have the money to spend that even Stoke have, with the rich owners and tv money.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Sept 7, 2017 16:43:07 GMT
With the knock on effect of transfers a lot of clubs. Monaco have got over 100 million coming to them in the summer. Dortmund have the Dembele money etc. If man city/psg/Bayern/ Madrid/Barca etc buy a player from another club for silly money that club then have the money to spend. What happens if Roma bid 30 million for Shaqiri in mid August. It leaves us up shit creek Why would they bid 30m? Do you think he's worth 30m? Would he be worth 30m 4 weeks earlier? If not then it's Roma's daft fault for not bidding less 4 weeks earlier. Like I said prem clubs can either say do one, or accept silly money after our window shuts. Just don't think European clubs will suddenly wait until our window shuts to offer way more than they could offer a few weeks earlier. It was a hypothetical situation. If they sell a player within their window but after ours are shut and then identify a premier league player as a replacement for their sold player, the Premier league club cant replace them That's the point I'm making
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Post by johnbutlershair on Sept 7, 2017 16:51:50 GMT
With the knock on effect of transfers a lot of clubs. Monaco have got over 100 million coming to them in the summer. Dortmund have the Dembele money etc. If man city/psg/Bayern/ Madrid/Barca etc buy a player from another club for silly money that club then have the money to spend. What happens if Roma bid 30 million for Shaqiri in mid August. It leaves us up shit creek We say no, we don't have to sell now, like other clubs have done? Can Roma afford to pay Shaqiri what we're paying him? For all the money they've got coming in, neither Monaco nor Dortmund look to really splash the cash massively. They pay pretty sensible fees for up and coming youngsters who they sell on for massive money. Again it's a hypothetical situation. They might do they might not do. PSG and Manchester City have changed the transfer market massively. They're flooding other clubs with money and we may or may not see other clubs follow suit
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 7, 2017 17:01:54 GMT
We say no, we don't have to sell now, like other clubs have done? Can Roma afford to pay Shaqiri what we're paying him? For all the money they've got coming in, neither Monaco nor Dortmund look to really splash the cash massively. They pay pretty sensible fees for up and coming youngsters who they sell on for massive money. Again it's a hypothetical situation. They might do they might not do. PSG and Manchester City have changed the transfer market massively. They're flooding other clubs with money and we may or may not see other clubs follow suit The moon could fall on my head on my way home. That, too, is a hypothetical situation. I don't think it's a massive thing to worry about. If a big foreign club does come in for one of our players, there's a strong chance they'll have expressed an interest long before the end of our window.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Sept 7, 2017 17:05:41 GMT
Again it's a hypothetical situation. They might do they might not do. PSG and Manchester City have changed the transfer market massively. They're flooding other clubs with money and we may or may not see other clubs follow suit The moon could fall on my head on my way home. That, too, is a hypothetical situation. I don't think it's a massive thing to worry about. If a big foreign club does come in for one of our players, there's a strong chance they'll have expressed an interest long before the end of our window. True, I just don't think it's a great idea myself. Guess we'll find out next summer
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Post by kustokie on Sept 7, 2017 17:15:45 GMT
But it's clubs like Stoke, who in order to attract bigger and better players, have to offer them buyout clauses. If these players knew we could hold them to a 4 or 5 year contract come what may and despite who might subsequently come in for them we'd never get them to sign in the first place. It's hard enough as it is ffs. I'm quite sure the club were well aware that Bojan, Arni, Shaqiri etc. would want to leave as soon as they got their careers' on track, as is the case with more recent signings. It's what we do now to try and compete with the big clubs and avoid relegation. Peter Coates is nobody's fool and knows what he has voted for. I'd love to know which five owners voted against the resolution and who abstained. The answer has to lie in who has the most to lose - big teams or small teams?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 17:16:08 GMT
Again it's a hypothetical situation. They might do they might not do. PSG and Manchester City have changed the transfer market massively. They're flooding other clubs with money and we may or may not see other clubs follow suit The moon could fall on my head on my way home. That, too, is a hypothetical situation. I don't think it's a massive thing to worry about. If a big foreign club does come in for one of our players, there's a strong chance they'll have expressed an interest long before the end of our window. So are you saying that, in these days of austerity, self sufficiency and sell before we buy, that we would have gone out before our window closes and spent a lot of money on a replacement player because a big foreign club has expressed an interest in one of our better players? Just in case. I don't think so.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 7, 2017 17:41:09 GMT
If you don't stop all sales and buying before the season, then there's no point. Eg. Barca come in for Coutinho 2nd week of the season, he wants to leave. Liverpool have to sell essentially because he wants to go, and they can't bring anyone else in. Yet Coutinho wasn't sold. Same with Sanchez.
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Post by Hannibal on Sept 7, 2017 18:03:58 GMT
I presume the other leagues will follow suit
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Post by lordb on Sept 7, 2017 18:11:32 GMT
I'm quite sure the club were well aware that Bojan, Arni, Shaqiri etc. would want to leave as soon as they got their careers' on track, as is the case with more recent signings. It's what we do now to try and compete with the big clubs and avoid relegation. Peter Coates is nobody's fool and knows what he has voted for. I'd love to know which five owners voted against the resolution and who abstained. The answer has to lie in who has the most to lose - big teams or small teams? Just on the radio. Burnley abstained Swansea, Palace,The Shit, Man City and I've forgotten the other,all voted against
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 18:11:52 GMT
I'm quite sure the club were well aware that Bojan, Arni, Shaqiri etc. would want to leave as soon as they got their careers' on track, as is the case with more recent signings. It's what we do now to try and compete with the big clubs and avoid relegation. Peter Coates is nobody's fool and knows what he has voted for. I'd love to know which five owners voted against the resolution and who abstained. The answer has to lie in who has the most to lose - big teams or small teams? From the BBC website KU Fourteen Premier League clubs voted in favour of the amendment, which was the minimum total needed for the plans to be approved. Manchester United, Manchester City, Watford, Swansea and Crystal Palace voted against the proposal while Burnley abstained.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 18:13:54 GMT
I'd love to know which five owners voted against the resolution and who abstained. The answer has to lie in who has the most to lose - big teams or small teams? Just on the radio. Burnley abstained Swansea, Palace,The Shit, Man City and I've forgotten the other,all voted against Watford mate.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 7, 2017 18:21:51 GMT
The moon could fall on my head on my way home. That, too, is a hypothetical situation. I don't think it's a massive thing to worry about. If a big foreign club does come in for one of our players, there's a strong chance they'll have expressed an interest long before the end of our window. So are you saying that, in these days of austerity, self sufficiency and sell before we buy, that we would have gone out before our window closes and spent a lot of money on a replacement player because a big foreign club has expressed an interest in one of our better players? Just in case. I don't think so. Are you saying that the first we'd hear of a big foreign club being interested in our player would be after the end of our window? If it became clear said player was going it'd be nice to think we had a contingency plan in place and if we didn't, it wouldn't be because the window closing was a bad thing, but because we were whack ourselves in the nuts with a spade incompetent.
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Post by stokeyank on Sept 7, 2017 19:22:46 GMT
So are you saying that, in these days of austerity, self sufficiency and sell before we buy, that we would have gone out before our window closes and spent a lot of money on a replacement player because a big foreign club has expressed an interest in one of our better players? Just in case. I don't think so. Are you saying that the first we'd hear of a big foreign club being interested in our player would be after the end of our window? If it became clear said player was going it'd be nice to think we had a contingency plan in place and if we didn't, it wouldn't be because the window closing was a bad thing, but because we were whack ourselves in the nuts with a spade incompetent. Could be from a domino effect of transfers outside of our league. Not likely to happen often, I can agree, but there will be one or two for some clubs around our level and it may hurt massively.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Sept 7, 2017 19:24:52 GMT
Are you saying that the first we'd hear of a big foreign club being interested in our player would be after the end of our window? If it became clear said player was going it'd be nice to think we had a contingency plan in place and if we didn't, it wouldn't be because the window closing was a bad thing, but because we were whack ourselves in the nuts with a spade incompetent. Could be from a domino effect of transfers outside of our league. Not likely to happen often, I can agree, but there will be one or two for some clubs around our level and it may hurt massively. Exactly. Madrid buy player from say Dortmund who then identify a player from premier league club who can't replace them. It's a risk by the Premier league clubs
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 7, 2017 20:03:50 GMT
This makes no sense for Premier League clubs unless other leagues followed.
But why would they? It gives them a massive advantage.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 7, 2017 20:17:21 GMT
More encouragement to improve from within hopefully. Nice to think big European clubs would be cherry picking us post Prem window with all the price premium that would attract. To worry about that is indicative of how far we've come.
I'd prefer that the window shuts before the season starts, makes for a more coherent season.
Might not be perfect but I think it'll be far better.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 7, 2017 20:43:56 GMT
This makes no sense for Premier League clubs unless other leagues followed. But why would they? It gives them a massive advantage. Looking around various websites, many managers and presidents of big European clubs are praising our decision and asking that their own leagues follow suit. It is quite possible that there may be a domino effect. One thing we may see in future are clauses inserted in players' contracts with English clubs that release clauses of £x million can only be forcibly triggered before the end of July - that would force any foreign club to make their move early if they wished to trigger a release clause. If, next summer, it is apparent that enough English clubs are seriously disadvantaged, it will only require 14 of them to vote for a change for the status quo to be restored.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 7, 2017 21:13:57 GMT
So are you saying that, in these days of austerity, self sufficiency and sell before we buy, that we would have gone out before our window closes and spent a lot of money on a replacement player because a big foreign club has expressed an interest in one of our better players? Just in case. I don't think so. Are you saying that the first we'd hear of a big foreign club being interested in our player would be after the end of our window? If it became clear said player was going it'd be nice to think we had a contingency plan in place and if we didn't, it wouldn't be because the window closing was a bad thing, but because we were whack ourselves in the nuts with a spade incompetent. In a hypothetical world where the moon can beam you on the head it could happen What contingency plan could we have? If the window was closed we'd be bolloxed whether we were incompetent or not. As I said before are we really going to replace one of our stars before the window closes just on the off chance a foreign club cherry picks him after our window has closed? No are we bollocks. I'm totally in favour of the window closing before the start of the season and always have been but it should be at least a Europe wide change.
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