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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 9:08:07 GMT
Alternatively, he's doing his best to deliver the referendum result against an undemocratic parliament. Yeah what he's doing is the very essence of democracy. Fuck me. We live in interesting times! I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. For me, noting I voted to remain, I'd say it is the former. By some distance.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 9:10:03 GMT
So the cunt is proroguing parliament then. We have been taken over by a fat dictator. Let the civil disobedience begin. How we haven’t had riots after 3 years of parliament stopping Brexit is beyond me.
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Post by 4372 on Aug 28, 2019 9:11:56 GMT
Johnson had 2 speeches prepared before the Referendum depending which side won. Ever the opportunist. How could anyone take him seriously at a negotiating table? He's ready to change like the wind as long as he's the benefactor. Another remainer myth, there were no two speeches. He wrote articles pro staying in the EU and pro leaving the EU, he then decided leaving was the best option, writing the articles was his way of considering the pros and cons. I expect many people did similar, leaving the EU was never something I spent alot of time considering before the referendum but given the choice I decided it was leave now or never so I voted out, obviously I didn't look into I just decided based on a bus and because of russian dark money on facebook etc etc Ok. As recently as yesterday,there were clips of Jeremy Corbyn and Margaret Thatcher on here saying things about the EU which seemed to indicate that they had changed their minds. I think it is fair to show that Boris did the same.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 9:15:17 GMT
Yeah what he's doing is the very essence of democracy. Fuck me. We live in interesting times! I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. For me, noting I voted to remain, I'd say it is the former. By some distance. Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke article 50 unconditionally. It was then the job of the Government to get a deal it could pass through the house. May neither had the notion or the skill to d it, Johnson's approach is one pure belligerence, for which he doesn't have the slightest mandate. Nothing justifies this action and for those of you are who are Royalist this is a dangerous abuse of the constitution that could have far reaching consequences for the role of the Monarchy.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 9:26:16 GMT
Good on him the blame for this lies firmly at the door of the coward remainers for undermining the democratic vote. Two things will happen it will concentrate minds to get a last minute deal or we leave with no deal. All this political posturing has backfired because we have a man of courage and conviction. There are no methods or time to delay leaving now call my bluff and he's won. The blame also lies with Theresa May who kept coming back to the Commons with a big bag of wank, when a free trade deal was supposedly offered. Mind you, I don't know what form of Brexit parliament would vote for. No Deal is just their latest get out clause.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 9:33:43 GMT
We live in interesting times! I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. For me, noting I voted to remain, I'd say it is the former. By some distance. Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke article 50 unconditionally. It was then the job of the Government to get a deal it could pass through the house. May neither had the notion or the skill to d it, Johnson's approach is one pure belligerence, for which he doesn't have the slightest mandate. Nothing justifies this action and for those of you are who are Royalist this is a dangerous abuse of the constitution that could have far reaching consequences for the role of the Monarchy. But Sheikh, it is possible to leave the EU without a deal. The two are separate issues. It's possible to be an independent country and not to have a deal with the EU. It's those who simply don't accept the result of the referendum, those that want to stay in the EU despite the majority wanting to leave that have caused the issue of proroguing parliament.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 9:38:09 GMT
Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke article 50 unconditionally. It was then the job of the Government to get a deal it could pass through the house. May neither had the notion or the skill to d it, Johnson's approach is one pure belligerence, for which he doesn't have the slightest mandate. Nothing justifies this action and for those of you are who are Royalist this is a dangerous abuse of the constitution that could have far reaching consequences for the role of the Monarchy. But Sheikh, it is possible to leave the EU without a deal. The two are separate issues. It's possible to be an independent country and not to have a deal with the EU. It's those who simply don't accept the result of the referendum, those that want to stay in the EU despite the majority wanting to leave that gave caused the issue of proroguing parliament. Only three weeks ago the fat dictator was saying a deal was still going to happen. No one literally no one voted for a no deal Brext in 2016 because no one would countenance that we would be so inept as to not agree one. It was goin to be the 'easiest thing in the world' and 'sunny uplands'. This is a cynical act of a scruitny hating right wing dictator that threatens the constitution. There will be a price to pay.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 9:38:34 GMT
We live in interesting times! I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. For me, noting I voted to remain, I'd say it is the former. By some distance. Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke article 50 unconditionally. It was then the job of the Government to get a deal it could pass through the house. May neither had the notion or the skill to d it, Johnson's approach is one pure belligerence, for which he doesn't have the slightest mandate. Nothing justifies this action and for those of you are who are Royalist this is a dangerous abuse of the constitution that could have far reaching consequences for the role of the Monarchy. Your argument is not logical. What you are saying is Parliament is breaking it's own commitment on Article 50. So credit is due to Johnson for having both the notion and skill (and most importantly the will) to deliver Brexit.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 9:39:13 GMT
We live in interesting times! I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. For me, noting I voted to remain, I'd say it is the former. By some distance. Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke article 50 unconditionally. It was then the job of the Government to get a deal it could pass through the house. May neither had the notion or the skill to d it, Johnson's approach is one pure belligerence, for which he doesn't have the slightest mandate. Nothing justifies this action and for those of you are who are Royalist this is a dangerous abuse of the constitution that could have far reaching consequences for the role of the Monarchy. Yes, but the default result of May's incompetence WAS a No Deal. They voted knowing it was a possibility.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 9:41:26 GMT
But Sheikh, it is possible to leave the EU without a deal. The two are separate issues. It's possible to be an independent country and not to have a deal with the EU. It's those who simply don't accept the result of the referendum, those that want to stay in the EU despite the majority wanting to leave that gave caused the issue of proroguing parliament. Only three weeks ago the fat dictator was saying a deal was still going to happen. No one literally no one voted for a no deal Brext in 2016 because no one would countenance that we would be so inept as to not agree one. It was goin to be the 'easiest thing in the world' and 'sunny uplands'. This is a cynical act of a scruitny hating right wing dictator that threatens the constitution. There will be a price to pay. A deal would be great, but you can't accept a deal if you can't ( or shouldn't) agree to the conditions of the other side. The fact that we can't agree a deal with the EU does not mean that we can't leave the EU. They are separate issues.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 9:42:27 GMT
They didn't though did they as two extensions have proved.
There is no mandate for no deal, only a few right wing fruit loops in the ERG think it will be any good....probably for their own wallets.
It's only the default position for reckless predominantly right wing bastards.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 9:45:39 GMT
if the Remainers get their way and the UK stays in the EU it may be that the UK is perceived with derision and as a laughing stock on the world stage. This once great country whose people voted to leave the German and French led EU but couldn't and were made to stay, having huffed and puffed but came to heel. Germany and France would then be seen as the leaders of Europe and would be able to exert greater power and control......A question for Remainers .. " if the EU made it clear that they now wanted us to join the Euro, accept Schengen, no more opt outs ( and that is what they would like).... would you be ok with that?..... To be full members of the EU, to play our part. . I'd probably be OK with it. I'd vote for it against suspending democracy to leave the EU without a deal, although if the 'full EU' option were up against leaving the EU with a deal (and not having to suspend British democracy in order to do it) then at this point in time I'd vote probably vote to leave (given the result of the 2016 referendum). I guess, like most decisions in life, "being OK" with something depends on the alternative. IF the alternative was stickingt to what we had (opt outs etc), then I'd prefer that. I don't think that it would be a good move for the UK yo surrender the pound and give control of its currency to the German and French led EU under ANY circumstances. They act in their own self interest not ours. Similarly with political and economic suicide.
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Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 9:47:23 GMT
I'm amazed how he's taken people in with this. Staggering... Amazing isn't it , he's doing a good job so far isn't he? I think people like to see a bit of positive leadership and to get behind someone with some enthusiasm for the UK and democracy. I'd imagine that he will win over a few neutrals because of the contrast with those rag tag bunch of anti democraticmoaners from the other parties, don't you? Remains to be seen what actually transpires though. An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up,
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Post by starkiller on Aug 28, 2019 9:52:01 GMT
They didn't though did they as two extensions have proved. There is no mandate for no deal, only a few right wing fruit loops in the ERG think it will be any good....probably for their own wallets. It's only the default position for reckless predominantly right wing bastards. No mandate? It's the legal default position.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 9:54:31 GMT
They didn't though did they as two extensions have proved. There is no mandate for no deal, only a few right wing fruit loops in the ERG think it will be any good....probably for their own wallets. It's only the default position for reckless predominantly right wing bastards. No mandate? It's the legal default position. There is no mandate from the 2016 vote as it was never put forward as any sort of viable option.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 9:55:53 GMT
Anyway we're all barking up the wrong tree. The Fat Dictator says this prorogation has fuck all to do with Brexit and it's something to do with the NHS.
The filthy lying bastard.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 28, 2019 9:56:12 GMT
Amazing isn't it , he's doing a good job so far isn't he? I think people like to see a bit of positive leadership and to get behind someone with some enthusiasm for the UK and democracy. I'd imagine that he will win over a few neutrals because of the contrast with those rag tag bunch of anti democraticmoaners from the other parties, don't you? Remains to be seen what actually transpires though. An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, You think Corbyn declaring himself PM is the way to go? Where was the outcry to this crackpot idea? You think Sourbry and co-conspirators, meeting together outside Parliament to go against what Parliament decided is the way to go?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 9:56:20 GMT
Amazing isn't it , he's doing a good job so far isn't he? I think people like to see a bit of positive leadership and to get behind someone with some enthusiasm for the UK and democracy. I'd imagine that he will win over a few neutrals because of the contrast with those rag tag bunch of anti democraticmoaners from the other parties, don't you? Remains to be seen what actually transpires though. An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, Aye I don't suppose Johnson really wants to do it but those anti democratic Remainers and autocratic EU have put him in that position. We do seem to have a peculiar Constitution though as you suggest. I'd abolish the H of L asap if it was up to me. Having said that our Constitution has seemed to work somehow as long as decisions have been respected.....I don't think that we need the interference of another top down centrist anti democratic system imposed upon us from outside the UK and against our will. It gets a bit complicated and bureaucratic if nothing else.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 28, 2019 9:57:02 GMT
No mandate? It's the legal default position. There is no mandate from the 2016 vote as it was never put forward as any sort of viable option. It's the legal default position as voted for by the 'democratically-elected' Parliament you mention.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 9:58:09 GMT
Amazing isn't it , he's doing a good job so far isn't he? I think people like to see a bit of positive leadership and to get behind someone with some enthusiasm for the UK and democracy. I'd imagine that he will win over a few neutrals because of the contrast with those rag tag bunch of anti democraticmoaners from the other parties, don't you? Remains to be seen what actually transpires though. An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, Perhaps if some of the democratically elected Parliament hadn't run to the EU like creeps right after the result, and fought Brexit every step of the way ever since, we wouldn't be in this position now?
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 28, 2019 9:59:11 GMT
To take back control and protect democracy, the prime minister intends to suspend parliament. Work that one out.
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Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:00:06 GMT
An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, Aye I don't suppose Johnson really wants to do it but those anti democratic Remainers and autocratic EU have put him in that position. We do seem to have a peculiar Constitution though as you suggest. I'd abolish the H of L asap if it was up to me. Having said that our Constitution has seemed to work somehow as long as decisions have been respected.....I don't think that we need the interference of another top down centrist anti democratic system imposed upon us from outside the UK and against our will. It gets a bit complicated and bureaucratic if nothing else. Do you really find it that difficult to see your own irony in all of this?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 10:00:28 GMT
There is no mandate from the 2016 vote as it was never put forward as any sort of viable option. It's the legal default position as voted for by the 'democratically-elected' Parliament you mention. Remind me why didn't it happen in March then....or June?
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Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:01:36 GMT
An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, Perhaps if some of the democratically elected Parliament hadn't run to the EU like creeps right after the result, and fought Brexit every step of the way ever since, we wouldn't be in this position now? So do you support or oppose democracy? Simple question, should be a really simple answer.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:01:53 GMT
To take back control and protect democracy, the prime minister intends to suspend parliament. Work that one out. It's a journey, a means to an end. Unfortunately Johnson has been put in that ridiculous position by those who don't accept the result of the referendum. A shame really.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:02:27 GMT
Aye I don't suppose Johnson really wants to do it but those anti democratic Remainers and autocratic EU have put him in that position. We do seem to have a peculiar Constitution though as you suggest. I'd abolish the H of L asap if it was up to me. Having said that our Constitution has seemed to work somehow as long as decisions have been respected.....I don't think that we need the interference of another top down centrist anti democratic system imposed upon us from outside the UK and against our will. It gets a bit complicated and bureaucratic if nothing else. Do you really find it that difficult to see your own irony in all of this? Not at all. How about yous?
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Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 10:02:34 GMT
Alternatively, he's doing his best to deliver the referendum result against an undemocratic parliament. There is no obligation to leave the EU on the referendum...that actual referendum said that on it for fucks sake...the only lack of democracy here is happening in front of your eyes as this unelected scrotum bag asks that democratically elected MP's do not get to have a sayHe is not “unelected”. He is MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Did you not know that he is an MP, or do you just not understand how our parliamentary system works? HINT – We don’t “elect” Prime Ministers.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Aug 28, 2019 10:03:07 GMT
Anyone else have a quid on the million to one chance of a no deal brexit happening?
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Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:03:11 GMT
An unelected prime minister is set to approach an unelected monarch to ask if he can suspend our democratically-elected parliament. You couldn't make it up, You think Corbyn declaring himself PM is the way to go? Where was the outcry to this crackpot idea? You think Sourbry and co-conspirators, meeting together outside Parliament to go against what Parliament decided is the way to go? If the house democratically votes government down the leader of the opposition becomes PM. A leader who has actually been democratically chosen with a far bigger mandate than any other political leader in this country. Don't like it? Tough shit, that's democracy.
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Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:03:56 GMT
Do you really find it that difficult to see your own irony in all of this? Not at all. How about yous? OK, I'll break it down in to tiny bits to make it easy for you. So do you support or oppose democracy?
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