|
Post by JoeinOz on Aug 28, 2019 10:05:00 GMT
To take back control and protect democracy, the prime minister intends to suspend parliament. Work that one out. It's a journey, a means to an end. Unfortunately Johnson has been put in that ridiculous position by those who don't accept the result of the referendum. A shame really. No he hasn't. Laws are passed through parliament. Suspending it is an insult to the civilised world.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 10:06:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 10:07:48 GMT
Oh dear. Some people know how to use Photoshop well, and some don't!
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 10:09:53 GMT
Oh dear. Some people know how to use Photoshop well, and some don't! As he's a had several high profile and successful exhibitions and some of his work fetches thousands, I think, he's pretty happy with his skills
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 10:10:35 GMT
They didn't though did they as two extensions have proved. There is no mandate for no deal, only a few right wing fruit loops in the ERG think it will be any good....probably for their own wallets. It's only the default position for reckless predominantly right wing bastards. Plenty of Labour MPs favour No Deal over No Brexit.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 10:16:39 GMT
Perhaps if some of the democratically elected Parliament hadn't run to the EU like creeps right after the result, and fought Brexit every step of the way ever since, we wouldn't be in this position now? So do you support or oppose democracy? Simple question, should be a really simple answer. I support it, obviously. We were told by "democrats" that they would honour the result of the referendum, but loads of them have tried to overturn it. Labour wanted to stay in the single market and customs union, which isn't Brexit at all, the Liberal Democrats have been against it, wanting a second referendum (gone quiet on this, lately), and as for the Scots... Yes, I am uncomfortable with the latest proposal, but some politicians have brought it on themselves. They have shat on the public for 3 years.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:17:37 GMT
It's a journey, a means to an end. Unfortunately Johnson has been put in that ridiculous position by those who don't accept the result of the referendum. A shame really. No he hasn't. Laws are passed through parliament. Suspending it is an insult to the civilised world. As I've said it is unfortunate that the UK government had been put in this position in order to try to leave the EU. I don't suppose he wants to do it. The people are sovereign, its my guess that if he achieves a clean BREXIT even using this unnacceptable approach he will be lauded by most British people for showing strength, courage and leadership....and escaping the clutches of the EU.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Aug 28, 2019 10:17:40 GMT
Good on him the blame for this lies firmly at the door of the coward remainers for undermining the democratic vote. Two things will happen it will concentrate minds to get a last minute deal or we leave with no deal. All this political posturing has backfired because we have a man of courage and conviction. There are no methods or time to delay leaving now call my bluff and he's won. The blame also lies with Theresa May who kept coming back to the Commons with a big bag of wank, when a free trade deal was supposedly offered. Mind you, I don't know what form of Brexit parliament would vote for. No Deal is just their latest get out clause. I included her in the remainer part pal. My money is still on a last minute.com deal.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:19:19 GMT
Not at all. How about yous? OK, I'll break it down in to tiny bits to make it easy for you. So do you support or oppose democracy? No need to be patronising. I'm ok with my position, as Im sure that you are with yours. And it's not about " me"
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:19:20 GMT
So do you support or oppose democracy? Simple question, should be a really simple answer. I support it, obviously. We were told by "democrats" that they would honour the result of the referendum, but loads of them have tried to overturn it. Labour wanted to stay in the single market and customs union, which isn't Brexit at all, the Liberal Democrats have been against it, wanting a second referendum (gone quiet on this, lately), and as for the Scots... Yes, I am uncomfortable with the latest proposal, but some politicians have brought it on themselves. They have shat on the public for 3 years. Well you simply can't support democracy whilst simultaneously supporting removing the democratic process. It's one or the other. You should know by now there is no such thing as having your cake and eating it. If you do you're basically not supporting democracy and therefore full of shit. So which is it?
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Aug 28, 2019 10:19:25 GMT
No he hasn't. Laws are passed through parliament. Suspending it is an insult to the civilised world. As I've said it is unfortunate that the UK government had been put in this position in order to try to leave the EU. I don't suppose he wants to do it. The people are sovereign, its my guess that if he achieves a clean BREXIT even using this unnacceptable approach he will be lauded by most British people for showing strength, courage and leadership....and escaping the clutches of the EU. So you don't see it as a betrayal?
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:20:08 GMT
OK, I'll break it down in to tiny bits to make it easy for you. So do you support or oppose democracy? No need to be patronising. I'm ok with my position, as Im sure that you are with yours. You still haven't said if you are in support of it or not though?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:21:15 GMT
As I've said it is unfortunate that the UK government had been put in this position in order to try to leave the EU. I don't suppose he wants to do it. The people are sovereign, its my guess that if he achieves a clean BREXIT even using this unnacceptable approach he will be lauded by most British people for showing strength, courage and leadership....and escaping the clutches of the EU. So you don't see it as a betrayal? Not at all Joe. I think that it is a shame that it may have come to this. But I don't think that Johnson is as much as a buffoon as people want to make out.... nothing has happened yet.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Aug 28, 2019 10:22:55 GMT
So you don't see it as a betrayal? Not at all Joe. I think that it is a shame that it may have come to this. But I don't think that Johnson id as much as a buffoon as people want to make out.... nothing has happened yet. So you think this is a veiled threat?
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 10:24:41 GMT
I support it, obviously. We were told by "democrats" that they would honour the result of the referendum, but loads of them have tried to overturn it. Labour wanted to stay in the single market and customs union, which isn't Brexit at all, the Liberal Democrats have been against it, wanting a second referendum (gone quiet on this, lately), and as for the Scots... Yes, I am uncomfortable with the latest proposal, but some politicians have brought it on themselves. They have shat on the public for 3 years. Well you simply can't support democracy whilst simultaneously supporting removing the democratic process. It's one or the other. You should know by now there is no such thing as having your cake and eating it. If you do you're basically not supporting democracy and therefore full of shit. So which is it? You decide. You obviously know, like most Remainers. I am too thick to get it. I also don't get how you can defend MPs going against the result of the referendum for 3 years and start bitching now.
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:27:55 GMT
Well you simply can't support democracy whilst simultaneously supporting removing the democratic process. It's one or the other. You should know by now there is no such thing as having your cake and eating it. If you do you're basically not supporting democracy and therefore full of shit. So which is it? You decide. You obviously know, like most Remainers. I am too thick to get it. I also don't get how you can defend MPs going against the result of the referendum for 3 years and start bitching now. I don't need to decide anything. It's you who is having contradictory thoughts. It's one thing not being happy about what is happening at the moment inside of parliament. It's something else effectively supporting a move that some would expect from a would be dictator.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:29:05 GMT
Not at all Joe. I think that it is a shame that it may have come to this. But I don't think that Johnson id as much as a buffoon as people want to make out.... nothing has happened yet. So you think this is a veiled threat? I've no idea, perhaps he is keeping his options open. I would addf Joe that Boris is in an unprecedented situation...(i think that he relishes that, mind.... being centre of a conundrum)...if I was him I certainly would find out the legal position and explore implications of proroguing. As Prime minister he needs to " know" everything that he possibly can.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:30:13 GMT
No need to be patronising. I'm ok with my position, as Im sure that you are with yours. You still haven't said if you are in support of it or not though? No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:43:57 GMT
You still haven't said if you are in support of it or not though? No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 10:49:22 GMT
No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. So you accept that the referendum result should be enacted then?
|
|
|
Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Aug 28, 2019 10:50:28 GMT
No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. We are in a deadlock situation and as far as I can see, showing the EU that we are prepared to do whatever it takes to leave, is the only card left to get a deal.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 10:52:52 GMT
No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. I agree , we have to leave this bureaucratic centrist dictatorship that acts in the interest of Germany and France as soon as possible. Follow the will of the people. It is dangerous, as you say, not to.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 10:54:10 GMT
No , I support dictatorships ( just for your amusement 🥴) It's not about me But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. Promising to abide by a referendum result and not doing so is a dangerous precedent. That was OK, though.
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:54:52 GMT
But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. So you accept that the referendum result should be enacted then? But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. Promising to abide by a referendum result and not doing so is a dangerous precedent. That was OK, though. I've never said it shouldn't. I voted remain and I believe that the government that so many voted for should have done what they said they were going to do and taken us out by now, which they haven't and they are the only ones to blame for that because they had the majority government no opposition parties should have been able to stop them. But. Because of the shit state that government have got us in to I fully agree with the majority of parliament whom were democratically voted in that a referendum should now be given because I accept nobody voted for no deal or May's deal and anyone saying they did are lying. I didn't want one before but I see it as the only way out. It either really drives home to leave (under all circumstances) or it says that the country has changed its mind. I'm not afraid of democracy. Are you?
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 10:56:02 GMT
But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. I agree , we have to leave this bureaucratic centrist dictatorship that acts in the interest of Germany and France as soon as possible. Follow the will of the people. It is dangerous, as you say, not to. But that is a totally different argument. You know that as well.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 11:03:21 GMT
So you accept that the referendum result should be enacted then? Promising to abide by a referendum result and not doing so is a dangerous precedent. That was OK, though. I've never said it shouldn't. I voted remain and I believe that the government that so many voted for should have done what they said they were going to do and taken us out by now, which they haven't and they are the only ones to blame for that because they had the majority government no opposition parties should have been able to stop them. But. Because of the shit state that government have got us in to I fully agree with the majority of parliament whom were democratically voted in that a referendum should now be given because I accept nobody voted for no deal or May's deal and anyone saying they did are lying. I didn't want one before but I see it as the only way out. It either really drives home to leave (under all circumstances) or it says that the country has changed its mind. I'm not afraid of democracy. Are you? No I’m not afraid of democracy. Like you, I believe that if a vote is democratically held the result should be respected and enacted. Once that has been done everyone can move forward and if there is a debate about the wisdom of the result, other actions or proposals could be considered. But, like you, I believe the first result should be respected before anything else occurs. (the fact that it hasn’t been does not change the fact that it should be.) Edited to close the bracket!
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 11:03:46 GMT
But this is the thing. This is a really serious and dangerous precedent that could be getting set and just because you like one outcome it doesn't mean that it's right. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with that comes out of parliament, it doesn't mean I want us to do away with democracy. Promising to abide by a referendum result and not doing so is a dangerous precedent. That was OK, though. Indeed. As I said earlier: I guess we need to ask which is the biggest democratic outrage: overturning the result of the referendum or preventing Parliament from trying to overturn the result of the referendum. The people bleating about the democratic outrage of Johnson proroguing Parliament ignore the much more significant democratic outrage of seeking to overturn the referendum.
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Aug 28, 2019 11:04:35 GMT
You think Corbyn declaring himself PM is the way to go? Where was the outcry to this crackpot idea? You think Sourbry and co-conspirators, meeting together outside Parliament to go against what Parliament decided is the way to go? If the house democratically votes government down the leader of the opposition becomes PM. A leader who has actually been democratically chosen with a far bigger mandate than any other political leader in this country. Don't like it? Tough shit, that's democracy. Ken Clarke? That was the other idea It's also democracy to have a break in Parliament before the Queen's speech.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 11:05:05 GMT
So you accept that the referendum result should be enacted then? Promising to abide by a referendum result and not doing so is a dangerous precedent. That was OK, though. I've never said it shouldn't. I voted remain and I believe that the government that so many voted for should have done what they said they were going to do and taken us out by now, which they haven't and they are the only ones to blame for that because they had the majority government no opposition parties should have been able to stop them. But. Because of the shit state that government have got us in to I fully agree with the majority of parliament whom were democratically voted in that a referendum should now be given because I accept nobody voted for no deal or May's deal and anyone saying they did are lying. I didn't want one before but I see it as the only way out. It either really drives home to leave (under all circumstances) or it says that the country has changed its mind. I'm not afraid of democracy. Are you? No.
|
|
|
Post by M on Aug 28, 2019 11:06:50 GMT
I've never said it shouldn't. I voted remain and I believe that the government that so many voted for should have done what they said they were going to do and taken us out by now, which they haven't and they are the only ones to blame for that because they had the majority government no opposition parties should have been able to stop them. But. Because of the shit state that government have got us in to I fully agree with the majority of parliament whom were democratically voted in that a referendum should now be given because I accept nobody voted for no deal or May's deal and anyone saying they did are lying. I didn't want one before but I see it as the only way out. It either really drives home to leave (under all circumstances) or it says that the country has changed its mind. I'm not afraid of democracy. Are you? No I’m not afraid of democracy. Like you, I believe that if a vote is democratically held the result should be respected and enacted. Once that has been done everyone can move forward and if there is a debate about the wisdom of the result, other actions or proposals could be considered. But, like you, I believe the first result should be respected before anything else occurs. (the fact that it hasn’t been does not change the fact that it should be. Differing opinions isn't a bad thing. It's there to be debated. Opinions can change and if they don't the majority rules. There's your democracy. Back to that then, our parliament was democratically chosen with the power to choose our course of action regardless of it being something you or I like or not. So they can debate if they should leave with no deal, May's deal or even ask the people what they would prefer. Parliament wants to do that, one chap doesn't. That's not democracy regardless of you liking it or not.
|
|