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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 11:53:15 GMT
Doesn't the fact that the EU keep granting extensions tell us how weak and desperate they really are? It tells us they’re desperate to not have a ‘no deal’ outcome, which is precisely why it was so important to keep it on the table. The remainers were always keen to get no deal off the table because it strengthened our hand in getting a good deal, which is the last thing remainers want, they want us to get as bad a deal as possible. It’s not a game of poker though is it, it’s more like a messy divorce, a fight for custody over the children and trying to ensure their rights. Peoples lives are at stake here, not a few poker chips.
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 22, 2019 12:00:47 GMT
As net contributors, every year for 40 years, second biggest contributors, with a trade deficit, I'll think you find it does. Let's see them stop granting extensions to prove me wrong. Tusk has said just this morning that a further extension will depend very much on what parliament decided. And Junker has pointed out what a waste of time and enery (read "money") Brexit actually is. Yes they would prefer the UK to remain, but what they really hope to avoid is a chaotic, no-deal Brexit which will waste even more time and energy! Sorry, but that's a poor argument you've presented. There's no evidence that the EU is weak and desperate other than your own initial premise. Then you limit any possible answer to one, i.e. your own, (again unsupported) corrobatory condition.
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Post by starkiller on Oct 22, 2019 12:02:32 GMT
Listening to 5 live they had a European minister in (cant remember who) but he was rubbing his hands ( phrase) , sounded like they are going to push for a quicker deal than we require now and feel Britain is in a bit of a mess. They sense that there will be only one winner Dunno why, we hold all the aces apparently! They need us more than we need them remember Maybe you haven't noticed, but remoaners sealed off every route out, removed all negotiating manoeuvrability and told them we will buy the car, no matter how shit it is, even if it will not have engine ability to leave the showroom. ....lol
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 22, 2019 12:11:42 GMT
You told us it is virtually the same as May's deal, so you should have read nearly all of it before. Contempt for people and democracy that's a bit rich coming from an arch remainer
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Post by Eggybread on Oct 22, 2019 12:18:09 GMT
Doesn't the fact that the EU keep granting extensions tell us how weak and desperate they really are? It tells us they’re desperate to not have a ‘no deal’ outcome, which is precisely why it was so important to keep it on the table. The remainers were always keen to get no deal off the table because it strengthened our hand in getting a good deal, which is the last thing remainers want, they want us to get as bad a deal as possible. Complete and utter nonsense from start to finish.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 22, 2019 12:35:55 GMT
It's all about getting "it" done 🙄 "It" hasn't even started. 'it' will go on for years and years. Which is why I would rather 'it' be done properly. Rushing it through shows just what a shit deal (or no deal for that matter) it is. And as for this absolute cretin (JRM) ... Spot on.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 22, 2019 12:38:06 GMT
Hasn’t Caroline Lucas called for the overturning of the referendum result ? It’s a Bit rich for her to be calling others out for having contempt for the people! Most people want this over and done with so I doubt they care about how little time MPs had to read it and debate it, they’ve been debating brexit for 3 and a half years. I’m one of those who wants “Brexit Done”. But such an important, far reaching and historic act simply HAS to be examined in detail, particularly given the fact that Boris and his like are trying to rush it through without any proper examination. It all should have been done years ago of course. But the fact that it wasn’t shouldn’t hinder getting it done properly now. This is a leaver view with sense and reason.
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Post by serpico on Oct 22, 2019 12:44:47 GMT
It tells us they’re desperate to not have a ‘no deal’ outcome, which is precisely why it was so important to keep it on the table. The remainers were always keen to get no deal off the table because it strengthened our hand in getting a good deal, which is the last thing remainers want, they want us to get as bad a deal as possible. Complete and utter nonsense from start to finish. Not nonsense, it’s tactical, Remainers know the threat of “no deal” was the strongest card in our hand (yes, a poker analogy) and could be the difference between us securing a solid deal and us having to accept a shit sandwich brexit deal, for remainers it’s always been about weakening our negotiation position, if the EU know we’re not willing to walk away then they have us by the short and curlies, there’s also Party politics playing its part, what motivation does labour have to help their main opposition to secure a successful brexit ? It’s in their interest to make a mess of the process and then blame the incumbents for it.
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on Oct 22, 2019 13:02:37 GMT
Doesn't the fact that the EU keep granting extensions tell us how weak and desperate they really are? Not necessarily. I think the fact that they keep granting extensions tell us that they want to make sure that they can't be held in any way responsible for the fallout from a No Deal Brexit in Britain. It looked like Boris and his advisors were manoeuvring in that direction at one point, the direction of, "fuck it, let's get out and blame somebody else", the EU want to make sure it can't be them.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 22, 2019 13:11:00 GMT
So if the Programme Motion doesn't go through this evening, then the government are going to pull the bill?
Rather than seeking a short extension (to say November 14th or 21st) to get all the legislation through, they're actually going to cut their noses off to spite their faces?
I can't see that the numbers would be there to get a customs union or second referendum amendment added, so unless I'm missing something, it would appear that this would be an act of pure egotism on Johnson's part, chucking his toys out of the pram simply because he ran out of time.
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Post by Davef on Oct 22, 2019 13:17:33 GMT
So if the Programme Motion doesn't go through this evening, then the government are going to pull the bill? Rather than seeking a short extension (to say November 14th or 21st) to get all the legislation through, they're actually going to cut their noses off to spite their faces? I can't see that the numbers would be there to get a customs union or second referendum amendment added, so unless I'm missing something, it would appear that this would be an act of pure egotism on Johnson's part, chucking his toys out of the pram simply because he ran out of time. Johnson can't "get Brexit done" this week (or even by October 31st*) even if the Commons do ratify it. After the UK have given it the nod, it then has to go to the European Parliament and the European Council for the formalities to be concluded and the EP doesn't sit again until November 13/14. Surely he knows this? I'm not really sure what his game is? *With a deal.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 22, 2019 14:03:14 GMT
So if the Programme Motion doesn't go through this evening, then the government are going to pull the bill? Rather than seeking a short extension (to say November 14th or 21st) to get all the legislation through, they're actually going to cut their noses off to spite their faces? I can't see that the numbers would be there to get a customs union or second referendum amendment added, so unless I'm missing something, it would appear that this would be an act of pure egotism on Johnson's part, chucking his toys out of the pram simply because he ran out of time. Johnson can't "get Brexit done" this week (or even by October 31st*) even if the Commons do ratify it. After the UK have given it the nod, it then has to go to the European Parliament and the European Council for the formalities to be concluded and the EP doesn't sit again until November 13/14. Surely he knows this? I'm not really sure what his game is? *With a deal. Does that mean if Johnson gets his deal done and dusted by the 31st It the Eu won’t sign it off until the 13th By law it’s no deal on the 1st
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Post by Davef on Oct 22, 2019 14:09:28 GMT
Johnson can't "get Brexit done" this week (or even by October 31st*) even if the Commons do ratify it. After the UK have given it the nod, it then has to go to the European Parliament and the European Council for the formalities to be concluded and the EP doesn't sit again until November 13/14. Surely he knows this? I'm not really sure what his game is? *With a deal. Does that mean if Johnson gets his deal done and dusted by the 31st It the Eu won’t sign it off until the 13th By law it’s no deal on the 1st Almost certainly not because an extension will be granted.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 22, 2019 14:50:19 GMT
Labour.....
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 22, 2019 14:51:26 GMT
Labour....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 15:27:30 GMT
A diet of self-righteousness and jammy dodgers will do that to you.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 22, 2019 16:12:40 GMT
So Jezza wants more time to scrutinise an agreement he rejected before he read it in a mountain of shit brexit takes from Labour I think they just hit K2....
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Post by underdog on Oct 22, 2019 16:58:03 GMT
Complete and utter nonsense from start to finish. Not nonsense, it’s tactical, Remainers know the threat of “no deal” was the strongest card in our hand (yes, a poker analogy) and could be the difference between us securing a solid deal and us having to accept a shit sandwich brexit deal, for remainers it’s always been about weakening our negotiation position, if the EU know we’re not willing to walk away then they have us by the short and curlies, there’s also Party politics playing its part, what motivation does labour have to help their main opposition to secure a successful brexit ? It’s in their interest to make a mess of the process and then blame the incumbents for it. Man....that's some made up bullshit right there. Are you Dominic Cummings?
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Post by franklin66 on Oct 22, 2019 17:02:05 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then all the traitors who tried to stop it will have to explain why. They have done everything they can to undermine democracy and I hope they live to regret it.
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Post by underdog on Oct 22, 2019 17:06:22 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then all the traitors who tried to stop it will have to explain why. They have done everything they can to undermine democracy and I hope they live to regret it. Traitors... give your head a wobble.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Oct 22, 2019 17:18:49 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then all the traitors who tried to stop it will have to explain why. They have done everything they can to undermine democracy and I hope they live to regret it. What?
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Post by bathstoke on Oct 22, 2019 17:22:02 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then... Now then, now then. Who are you Jimmy Seville!
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Post by franklin66 on Oct 22, 2019 17:30:48 GMT
I do hope all you traitors will be fine when no deal comes. I can't wait for the tears lol.
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Post by serpico on Oct 22, 2019 17:31:35 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then all the traitors who tried to stop it will have to explain why. They have done everything they can to undermine democracy and I hope they live to regret it. The next election is going to be carnage for many of MPs, they got elected in 2017 because they promised to honor the referendum result, this parliament is illegitimate and we need a general election ASAP.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 22, 2019 17:40:45 GMT
I hope we leave with no deal now then all the traitors who tried to stop it will have to explain why. They have done everything they can to undermine democracy and I hope they live to regret it. The next election is going to be carnage for many of MPs, they got elected in 2017 because they promised to honor the referendum result, this parliament is illegitimate and we need a general election ASAP. That was the whole idea. The election was completely unnecessary.
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Post by franklin66 on Oct 22, 2019 17:42:06 GMT
No compromise Boris use every trick in the book and then some, take us out. My stance has changed I was open to doing a deal but I've seen and read all the objections none of which have any legitimacy. I'm sick of it and I'll be honest I don't care about anyone anymore I'm fine come what may. I just hope all the remainers can manage too... nah I don't really I'll laugh my bollocks off.
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Post by underdog on Oct 22, 2019 18:03:08 GMT
No compromise Boris use every trick in the book and then some, take us out. My stance has changed I was open to doing a deal but I've seen and read all the objections none of which have any legitimacy. I'm sick of it and I'll be honest I don't care about anyone anymore I'm fine come what may. I just hope all the remainers can manage too... nah I don't really I'll laugh my bollocks off. If you've got any... which I doubt.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 22, 2019 18:15:31 GMT
Boris wins a vote
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 22, 2019 18:19:26 GMT
Finally. It doesn't mean mutch though if 16 MP'S vote differently on the programme motion.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 22, 2019 18:23:47 GMT
Finally. It doesn't mean mutch though if 16 MP'S vote differently on the programme motion. Which I think they will
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