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Post by PotteringThrough on May 8, 2024 17:09:09 GMT
ok we re-apply what terms are acceptable ? join the euro ? give up all fishing rights ? transfer all banking decisions to brussels / strasbourg? unlimited immigration ? tax policy at whim of greeks and latvians ? armed forces under the control of french and germans ? civil service and parliament just rubber stamping eu decisions. renege on all the post brexit world trade deals agreed ? before idiots keep on about rejoining why don't they come up with the palatable punishment they are willing to accept that the french etc would dish out ? We would have to join the Euro, makes it even stupider for leaving in the first place. The French might want to punish us but the Germans wouldn’t allow it. They’d welcome us back. The banking ones a good’un, we’d have much stricter rules about offshore banking and people having to be transparent - does that seem so bad?
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 8, 2024 17:52:07 GMT
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Post by wannabee on May 8, 2024 19:23:10 GMT
ok we re-apply what terms are acceptable ? TBDjoin the euro ? 25% of EU Countries remain outside the Euro. Sterling is a Reserve Currency albeit a quarter the size of Euro. Sterling might even recover some of its value it lost after voting to leave EUgive up all fishing rights ? What fishing rights? 25% were returned in 2021 in UK Waters and a corresponding amount lost in North Sea. Some winners, some losers. The next adjustment takes place in 2026transfer all banking decisions to brussels / strasbourg? The only change to UK Banking Regulations since Brexit was to remove the Salary Capunlimited immigration ? I expect there would be an immigration sharing and a returns policy. As certain UK Press believes UK takes more than others this will be positive surely tax policy at whim of greeks and latvians ? Individual countries have total control over their own Tax Policiesarmed forces under the control of french and germans ? Why? Some EU Countries belong to NATO others are not, some others have neutrality as a Policy civil service and parliament just rubber stamping eu decisions. The impact of EU law varies from sector to sector. In many areas - public order, crime, defence, health - EU laws have minimal impact. But in others - workers' rights, trade - the impact is much greater because the single market and the free movement of workers are at the heart of what the EU is about.
renege on all the post brexit world trade deals agreed ? This is a windup surely? UK has 68 Rollover Trade Agreements negotiated by EU. Canada is worse and Japan is slightly different. There is also a Trade Agreement with EU. Plus 2 Independent Trade Agreements with Australia and New Zealand. I'm sure there is an exist mechanism as there was with EU. before idiots keep on about rejoining why don't they come up with the palatable punishment they are willing to accept that the french etc would dish out ? It would be a negotiation, if it happens, no obligation to accept. At least if negotiations were to take place id hope they would be conducted by someone unlike Lord Frost who believes in what he is doing rather than Gaslighting for his own benefit - see link up the page.
Although I don't see Labour pushing for rejoining EU if it wins GE at least not in a first term but I do see them negotiating closer alignment and common recognition of Standards for mutual benefit to eliminate Non Tariff Costs Red Tape which the proponents of Brexit falsely claimed it would do rather than substantially increase
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 15, 2024 19:30:49 GMT
Even Farage has given up trying to argue that we aren't worse off now ...
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Post by wannabee on May 15, 2024 20:04:11 GMT
Even Farage has given up trying to argue that we aren't worse off now ... That's quite brilliant 😂 Expect an incoming Epistle from Mr Coke disputing what is patently obvious to everyone even Nige
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Post by mrcoke on May 15, 2024 22:15:56 GMT
I am delighted the UK has left the EU, one of the main reasons apart from restoring sovereignty is leaving the Common Agricultural Policy. Naturally the wealthy farmers who get the vast majority of the tax payers money are squealing about it. Naturally it will take a long time to phase out; the government target is 8 years, I think it will take at least 12 years, as it took New Zealand over a decade to end their subsidising of food production and establish market based farming. "The CAP incentivises industrial farming practices, overuse of fertilisers and pesticides, and monocultures, which leads to water pollution and over-extraction, biodiversity loss, soil degradation, and the decline of pollinators." www.euronews.com/green/2024/05/15/billions-from-eu-taxpayers-damage-nature-heres-how-it-can-stop#:~:text=The%20CAP%20incentivises%20industrial%20farming,and%20the%20decline%20of%20pollinators As for import controls on food and plants from the EU, further to my post on February 10th on page 1,576 oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/8044376/threadwhere I gave reasons for my support for import controls on food and plants from the EU, there have been further developments which support this action. Yet another consignment (3.4 tonnes) of illegal meat was seized by the Dover port authorities at the end of April. The haul included 54 unmarked sheep carcasses from two vehicles from Romania. Having been transported without temperature controls and in unhygienic conditions, it had cross-contaminated other food including pig parts, beef and “cheese items dripping with blood”. Dover District Council says the seizures are in the wake of increased concerns that African Swine Fever (ASF), which was recently found in Sweden, Italy and Germany could possibly spread to the UK, endangering the UK’s pig industry. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx035nvxz2joConcern about ASF is growing. In the government report: "Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Updated Outbreak Assessment #34 African swine fever in Europe 25 January 2024", it was reported that there have been nearly 3,000 reports of ASF in domestic pigs, and 3,600 in wild boar in 2023 in over a dozen EU countries, as well as many other east European countries. Five new European countries reported the presence of ASF in 2023. www.thepigsite.com/news/2024/01/african-swine-fever-continues-to-rise-in-europeClimatic change and weather extremes are leading to significant increase in the risk of diseases. In addition to ASF there is concern about African horse sickness, avian influenza, blue tongue virus, West Nile fever, and chronic wasting diseases, which all pose a threat to human health. African Horse Sickness would be devastating for our second most popular sport, the horse racing industry. Individual countries face their own problems. The Netherlands has one of the best control regimes but had an outbreak of foot and mouth disease in 2001. More recently the Dutch have experienced more than 6,000 cases of a new strain of blue tongue virus. The Dutch successfully eradicated leptospirosis in dairy cattle but still faces occasional re-infection due to imports from neighbouring countries. The EU banned the import of British beef for over a decade due to mad cow disease, which the world considered a "British disease". However four atypical cases of BSE were confirmed in 2020 in France and the disease has been reported in many other countries, including Spain, the Netherlands, Portugal, Ireland, and Italy. It is vital to British farming to exercise the maximum safety check on all imported foodstuffs, animals, etc. from Europe and protect the UK from diseases present in Europe. There has been increasing alarm amongst the veterinary sector and domestic food producers that the UK is facing increasing risks. Whilst some diseases can be brought in by the wind or migrating birds, they warn that our "uncontrolled border" makes us vulnerable to food fraud and animal disease entering the UK market. I pointed out in my previous post that it is also technically illegal for us to give businesses in the EU market preferential treatment, not controlling their import the same way we do other trading partners, as it contravenes WTO rules, as well as being clearly patently unfair to UK producers. There is also the risk of plant diseases such as xylella, a fast-spreading bacterial disease for plants found in mainland Europe. UK horticulturists and flower/plant sellers are concerned about the cost of controls being imposed on imports from the EU and future availability from EU suppliers. But surely control is better than letting diseases from Europe run wild in the UK. www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/24/plant-apocalypse-how-deadly-imported-diseases-are-destroying-eu-trees-and-crops-aoeConsidering the longer term, the UK is doing the right thing to move away from food dependence on Europe and spread dependence to places like Australia and New Zealand who are major food exporters. Food production in Europe will decline in the future due to climate change and the need to reduce pollution due to intensive farming. "Agriculture has multiple impacts on the environment, climate and human health. Unsustainable farming practices lead to pollution of soil, water, air and food and over-exploitation of natural resources." Reference: www.eea.europa.eu/signals-archived/signals-2020/articles/land-and-soil-pollutionThe UK is right to phase out the CAP which drives intensive farming and move to more sustainable practices. 60-75% of EU agricultural soils have excessive nutrient inputs. 80,000 sites have been cleaned up in countries where data is available, heavy metals and mineral oil from historical heavy industries and military activity being the most frequent contaminants. The EU has also tried to reduce the use of chemicals but had to reverse the policy due to farmers protests, such is the political power of agriculture in the EU. Having read my previous post and the above, to anyone who remains unconvinced that import controls on food and plants from the EU are necessary I say this. Imagine if controls were already in place and a government announced an end to controls on the grounds of expense or removal of red tape or increasing choice and availability, thereby endangering our indigenous farming and horticultural industries and our food retailers, catering industry, and UK citizens health, etc. Would you be in favour of such a move? Or would you consider it a reckless act? Of course the government is not removing control they are increasing control to reduce the health and safety risks to our society and environment, God willing. Will a new Labour government remove import controls? Of course not. It would be madness to expose ourselves to the crooks in Eastern Europe. As well as destroying nature on land the EU has destroyed fish stocks in the North Sea and the Mediterranean. The EU is in the grip of business interests and care naught for nature and the environment, as evidenced by the foreign owners of UK water companies. The puffin is endangered but do the EU care? www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9rrpn955qoI repeat I thank the Lord for the day we left that despicable EU organization who I see are now sucking up to China. You would have thought they learnt the lesson from Russia.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 16, 2024 5:48:26 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on May 16, 2024 5:51:41 GMT
I am delighted the UK has left the EU, one of the main reasons apart from restoring sovereignty is leaving the Common Agricultural Policy. Naturally the wealthy farmers who get the vast majority of the tax payers money are squealing about it. Naturally it will take a long time to phase out; the government target is 8 years, I think it will take at least 12 years, as it took New Zealand over a decade to end their subsidising of food production and establish market based farming. "The CAP incentivises industrial farming practices, overuse of fertilisers and pesticides, and monocultures, which leads to water pollution and over-extraction, biodiversity loss, soil degradation, and the decline of pollinators." www.euronews.com/green/2024/05/15/billions-from-eu-taxpayers-damage-nature-heres-how-it-can-stop#:~:text=The%20CAP%20incentivises%20industrial%20farming,and%20the%20decline%20of%20pollinators As for import controls on food and plants from the EU, further to my post on February 10th on page 1,576 oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/8044376/threadwhere I gave reasons for my support for import controls on food and plants from the EU, there have been further developments which support this action. Yet another consignment (3.4 tonnes) of illegal meat was seized by the Dover port authorities at the end of April. The haul included 54 unmarked sheep carcasses from two vehicles from Romania. Having been transported without temperature controls and in unhygienic conditions, it had cross-contaminated other food including pig parts, beef and “cheese items dripping with blood”. Dover District Council says the seizures are in the wake of increased concerns that African Swine Fever (ASF), which was recently found in Sweden, Italy and Germany could possibly spread to the UK, endangering the UK’s pig industry. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx035nvxz2joConcern about ASF is growing. In the government report: "Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Updated Outbreak Assessment #34 African swine fever in Europe 25 January 2024", it was reported that there have been nearly 3,000 reports of ASF in domestic pigs, and 3,600 in wild boar in 2023 in over a dozen EU countries, as well as many other east European countries. Five new European countries reported the presence of ASF in 2023. www.thepigsite.com/news/2024/01/african-swine-fever-continues-to-rise-in-europeClimatic change and weather extremes are leading to significant increase in the risk of diseases. In addition to ASF there is concern about African horse sickness, avian influenza, blue tongue virus, West Nile fever, and chronic wasting diseases, which all pose a threat to human health. African Horse Sickness would be devastating for our second most popular sport, the horse racing industry. Individual countries face their own problems. The Netherlands has one of the best control regimes but had an outbreak of foot and mouth disease in 2001. More recently the Dutch have experienced more than 6,000 cases of a new strain of blue tongue virus. The Dutch successfully eradicated leptospirosis in dairy cattle but still faces occasional re-infection due to imports from neighbouring countries. The EU banned the import of British beef for over a decade due to mad cow disease, which the world considered a "British disease". However four atypical cases of BSE were confirmed in 2020 in France and the disease has been reported in many other countries, including Spain, the Netherlands, Portugal, Ireland, and Italy. It is vital to British farming to exercise the maximum safety check on all imported foodstuffs, animals, etc. from Europe and protect the UK from diseases present in Europe. There has been increasing alarm amongst the veterinary sector and domestic food producers that the UK is facing increasing risks. Whilst some diseases can be brought in by the wind or migrating birds, they warn that our "uncontrolled border" makes us vulnerable to food fraud and animal disease entering the UK market. I pointed out in my previous post that it is also technically illegal for us to give businesses in the EU market preferential treatment, not controlling their import the same way we do other trading partners, as it contravenes WTO rules, as well as being clearly patently unfair to UK producers. There is also the risk of plant diseases such as xylella, a fast-spreading bacterial disease for plants found in mainland Europe. UK horticulturists and flower/plant sellers are concerned about the cost of controls being imposed on imports from the EU and future availability from EU suppliers. But surely control is better than letting diseases from Europe run wild in the UK. www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/24/plant-apocalypse-how-deadly-imported-diseases-are-destroying-eu-trees-and-crops-aoeConsidering the longer term, the UK is doing the right thing to move away from food dependence on Europe and spread dependence to places like Australia and New Zealand who are major food exporters. Food production in Europe will decline in the future due to climate change and the need to reduce pollution due to intensive farming. "Agriculture has multiple impacts on the environment, climate and human health. Unsustainable farming practices lead to pollution of soil, water, air and food and over-exploitation of natural resources." Reference: www.eea.europa.eu/signals-archived/signals-2020/articles/land-and-soil-pollutionThe UK is right to phase out the CAP which drives intensive farming and move to more sustainable practices. 60-75% of EU agricultural soils have excessive nutrient inputs. 80,000 sites have been cleaned up in countries where data is available, heavy metals and mineral oil from historical heavy industries and military activity being the most frequent contaminants. The EU has also tried to reduce the use of chemicals but had to reverse the policy due to farmers protests, such is the political power of agriculture in the EU. Having read my previous post and the above, to anyone who remains unconvinced that import controls on food and plants from the EU are necessary I say this. Imagine if controls were already in place and a government announced an end to controls on the grounds of expense or removal of red tape or increasing choice and availability, thereby endangering our indigenous farming and horticultural industries and our food retailers, catering industry, and UK citizens health, etc. Would you be in favour of such a move? Or would you consider it a reckless act? Of course the government is not removing control they are increasing control to reduce the health and safety risks to our society and environment, God willing. Will a new Labour government remove import controls? Of course not. It would be madness to expose ourselves to the crooks in Eastern Europe. As well as destroying nature on land the EU has destroyed fish stocks in the North Sea and the Mediterranean. The EU is in the grip of business interests and care naught for nature and the environment, as evidenced by the foreign owners of UK water companies. The puffin is endangered but do the EU care? www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9rrpn955qoI repeat I thank the Lord for the day we left that despicable EU organization who I see are now sucking up to China. You would have thought they learnt the lesson from Russia. Your posts remind me of Kate Winslet’s character in the Regime! You are an incredible gas lighter. My particular highlight is you advocating imports of food from NZ and Australia for environmental reasons!! Brexit is bringing an end to the farmers in this country and is an unmitigated disaster. See my post above about lamb. It is also terrible for consumers who have to pay more and for lower standard produce.
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 8:09:08 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 16, 2024 8:28:27 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/Your version of Brexit is the lie told to you by the free market globalists in the Tory Party who are actually enacting the real Brexit. The plan all along was to replace regulated products from the EU with cheaper unregulated products outside the EU. Brexit has nothing to do with improving the lot of British producers and everything to do with increasing profit through the exploitation of unregulated free markets. We were be run from Brussels - we played an active role in regulating our biggest market for mutual benefit. We've given away that control to the interests of global capital who don't give a flying flying fuck about British producers.
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 9:36:54 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/Your version of Brexit is the lie told to you by the free market globalists in the Tory Party who are actually enacting the real Brexit. The plan all along was to replace regulated products from the EU with cheaper unregulated products outside the EU. Brexit has nothing to do with improving the lot of British producers and everything to do with increasing profit through the exploitation of unregulated free markets. We were be run from Brussels - we played an active role in regulating our biggest market for mutual benefit. We've given away that control to the interests of global capital who don't give a flying flying fuck about British producers. Thank you for your response but my version is diametrically opposed to yours. It is the EU that is in the "hands" of corporate interests: www.alter-eu.org/corporate-capture-in-europe-when-big-business-dominates-policy-making-and-threatens-our-rightBrexit was about restoring the sovereignty of parliament so that UK voters appoint the people who make the law, whether they be right wing or left wing, the choice is the British people. There was no mutual benefit in being in the EU. The UK paid in £billions for 47 years and after Maastricht built up a huge trade deficit with the EU. That negative balance of payments is the main driver of reduced government spending, reduced value of currency, greater foreign ownership, and ultimately increased taxation. The soft issues that have been lost by leaving such as travel, residency, etc. could easily be mutually agreed to remain, there is no need for a European government for them to be in place. EU membership saw a massive decline in British producers. It is only since voting to leave that we have seen reshoring of British manufacturing. The vote to leave resulted in less EU citizens moving to the UK resulting in the UK today having lower unemployment^, less redundancies, higher wage increases*, more job vacancies, etc. than the EU and Eurozone averages. That is hardly in the interests of free market globalists. Nevertheless FDI into the UK is very healthy.** ^ tradingeconomics.com/country-list/unemployment-rate?continent=europe* tradingeconomics.com/country-list/wage-growth?continent=europe** www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2024/05/uk-foreign-direct-investment-project-total-grows#:~:text=US%20%26%20India%20remain%20the%20leading,the%20rest%20of%20the%20continent.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 16, 2024 10:00:30 GMT
Interesting row brewing
Should the British government protect the humble British puffin against the mass of pillaging Vikings
Or should we bend Over backwards and cave in to eu pressure and allow the continued decimation of our sea birds
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 10:23:03 GMT
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Post by wannabee on May 16, 2024 11:27:10 GMT
Your version of Brexit is the lie told to you by the free market globalists in the Tory Party who are actually enacting the real Brexit. The plan all along was to replace regulated products from the EU with cheaper unregulated products outside the EU. Brexit has nothing to do with improving the lot of British producers and everything to do with increasing profit through the exploitation of unregulated free markets. We were be run from Brussels - we played an active role in regulating our biggest market for mutual benefit. We've given away that control to the interests of global capital who don't give a flying flying fuck about British producers. Thank you for your response but my version is diametrically opposed to yours. It is the EU that is in the "hands" of corporate interests: www.alter-eu.org/corporate-capture-in-europe-when-big-business-dominates-policy-making-and-threatens-our-rightBrexit was about restoring the sovereignty of parliament so that UK voters appoint the people who make the law, whether they be right wing or left wing, the choice is the British people. There was no mutual benefit in being in the EU. The UK paid in £billions for 47 years and after Maastricht built up a huge trade deficit with the EU. That negative balance of payments is the main driver of reduced government spending, reduced value of currency, greater foreign ownership, and ultimately increased taxation. The soft issues that have been lost by leaving such as travel, residency, etc. could easily be mutually agreed to remain, there is no need for a European government for them to be in place. EU membership saw a massive decline in British producers. It is only since voting to leave that we have seen reshoring of British manufacturing. The vote to leave resulted in less EU citizens moving to the UK resulting in the UK today having lower unemployment^, less redundancies, higher wage increases*, more job vacancies, etc. than the EU and Eurozone averages. That is hardly in the interests of free market globalists. Nevertheless FDI into the UK is very healthy.** ^ tradingeconomics.com/country-list/unemployment-rate?continent=europe* tradingeconomics.com/country-list/wage-growth?continent=europe** www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2024/05/uk-foreign-direct-investment-project-total-grows#:~:text=US%20%26%20India%20remain%20the%20leading,the%20rest%20of%20the%20continent. Mr Coke you simply construct an argument around whatever circumstances are prevailing at the time to defend Brexit come what may. The simple reason UK is conducting Border Checks is that it signed an International Agreement to do so. The EU did it on Day 1 Its taken UK 3 1/2 years to partially do so. Checks on Food and Animals from Ireland, one of the main Food suppliers wont start for at least another year When I pointed out to you previously several times that UK was incompetent by not carrying out borders checks on Food your answer was completely different to now, you said why should they Standards have not changed since leaving the EU. Another main reason UK is finally performing partial Border Checks on Food is that if it didn't under WTO Most favoured nation rules it would have to stop Border Checks on Food from ROW The reality is that UK is importing the same amount of Food from EU, or are you calling the Lady a liar, it just costs more due to non tariff costs and Border Checks and there is less variety because some EU Suppliers can't be bothered with the Administration to supply the small UK Market The UK left the EU 3 1/2 years ago but in England, agriculture being devolved, the majority of Subsidies paid to Farmers is still CAP Style Payments based on an average of what Farmers received in 2020-22. One of the main reasons Basic Payments continue is that the IT System to implement doesn't work and very few Farmers signed up to SFI The Wesh Government has just abandoned trying to use anything else other than CAP style Payments for at least another year. 70% of Scotland Farm Subsidies are CAP Style direct payments and Northern Ireland hasn't changed at all as far as I'm aware as it would put them at a disadvantage compared to Republic Farmers The concern in the Vetinary Sector is not as you describe but just last week MPs had this to say: Shortage of vets getting worse because of Brexit, MPs warn they went on to say
The number of EU vets has more than halved since Brexit while access for them has become harder, animal controls have increased and public sector pay has stalled.
A scarcity of vets poses a danger to protecting animal and human health, the UK's £4.2m meat, dairy and egg export trade, and guaranteeing Animal Welfare and Food Security
They said a shortage is of particular concern as due to Brexit there are more biosecurity measures for animals coming into the UK, food and animal certification has changed and it is harder to recruit vets from overseas.
Vet experts they spoke to were apprehensive about the UK's ability to deal with ongoing or significant disease outbreaks in animals.
news.sky.com/story/amp/shortage-of-vets-getting-worse-because-of-brexit-mps-warn-13131741
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 12:20:35 GMT
Thank you for your response but my version is diametrically opposed to yours. It is the EU that is in the "hands" of corporate interests: www.alter-eu.org/corporate-capture-in-europe-when-big-business-dominates-policy-making-and-threatens-our-rightBrexit was about restoring the sovereignty of parliament so that UK voters appoint the people who make the law, whether they be right wing or left wing, the choice is the British people. There was no mutual benefit in being in the EU. The UK paid in £billions for 47 years and after Maastricht built up a huge trade deficit with the EU. That negative balance of payments is the main driver of reduced government spending, reduced value of currency, greater foreign ownership, and ultimately increased taxation. The soft issues that have been lost by leaving such as travel, residency, etc. could easily be mutually agreed to remain, there is no need for a European government for them to be in place. EU membership saw a massive decline in British producers. It is only since voting to leave that we have seen reshoring of British manufacturing. The vote to leave resulted in less EU citizens moving to the UK resulting in the UK today having lower unemployment^, less redundancies, higher wage increases*, more job vacancies, etc. than the EU and Eurozone averages. That is hardly in the interests of free market globalists. Nevertheless FDI into the UK is very healthy.** ^ tradingeconomics.com/country-list/unemployment-rate?continent=europe* tradingeconomics.com/country-list/wage-growth?continent=europe** www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2024/05/uk-foreign-direct-investment-project-total-grows#:~:text=US%20%26%20India%20remain%20the%20leading,the%20rest%20of%20the%20continent. Mr Coke you simply construct an argument around whatever circumstances are prevailing at the time to defend Brexit come what may. The simple reason UK is conducting Border Checks is that it signed an International Agreement to do so. The EU did it on Day 1 Its taken UK 3 1/2 years to partially do so. Checks on Food and Animals from Ireland, one of the main Food suppliers wont start for at least another year When I pointed out to you previously several times that UK was incompetent by not carrying out borders checks on Food your answer was completely different to now, you said why should they Standards have not changed since leaving the EU. Another main reason UK is finally performing partial Border Checks on Food is that if it didn't under WTO Most favoured nation rules it would have to stop Border Checks on Food from ROW The reality is that UK is importing the same amount of Food from EU, or are you calling the Lady a liar, it just costs more due to non tariff costs and Border Checks and there is less variety because some EU Suppliers can't be bothered with the Administration to supply the small UK Market The UK left the EU 3 1/2 years ago but in England, agriculture being devolved, the majority of Subsidies paid to Farmers is still CAP Style Payments based on an average of what Farmers received in 2020-22. One of the main reasons Basic Payments continue is that the IT System to implement doesn't work and very few Farmers signed up to SFI The Wesh Government has just abandoned trying to use anything else other than CAP style Payments for at least another year. 70% of Scotland Farm Subsidies are CAP Style direct payments and Northern Ireland hasn't changed at all as far as I'm aware as it would put them at a disadvantage compared to Republic Farmers The concern in the Vetinary Sector is not as you describe but just last week MPs had this to say: Shortage of vets getting worse because of Brexit, MPs warn they went on to say
The number of EU vets has more than halved since Brexit while access for them has become harder, animal controls have increased and public sector pay has stalled.
A scarcity of vets poses a danger to protecting animal and human health, the UK's £4.2m meat, dairy and egg export trade, and guaranteeing Animal Welfare and Food Security
They said a shortage is of particular concern as due to Brexit there are more biosecurity measures for animals coming into the UK, food and animal certification has changed and it is harder to recruit vets from overseas.
Vet experts they spoke to were apprehensive about the UK's ability to deal with ongoing or significant disease outbreaks in animals.
news.sky.com/story/amp/shortage-of-vets-getting-worse-because-of-brexit-mps-warn-13131741You are correct to be critical of the government's slowness to introduce import controls. They should have been done much sooner. Buf I suspect the pandemic and invasion has redirected priorities. Nevertheless government has dragged its feet on Brexit since the vote to leave, mainly I suspect because the establishment and civil service have put every obstacle in its way. Veterinary controls should have been introduced sooner. www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/vets-say-government-decision-to-delay-import-checks-requirement-by-up-to-18-months-flies-in-the-face-of-common-sense/Are you in favour of introducing controls to prevent deseases from Europe or in favour of letting them in? As with most things the vet shortage will be met by supply and demand. Vet salaries are rocketing and the number of vets will follow, from training, people returning to the profession, and immigration. You keep harping on about CAP payments. The Agiculture Act makes it quite clear that CAP payments will be phased out over 8 years. I fully expect it will take longer, it always does with government. It is clearly going to take a long time to reverse the negative trends of decades of EU membership. In the case of food there has been huge disruption by the pandemic, invasion impact on wofld fod prices and energy costs, etc. I shall continue to highlight Brexit progress. Britain has achieved sovereignty and can elect law makers of our choice. Freed itself of the ECOJ and rising net financial payments to the EU, started to negotiate new trade deals (which will also take many years), and economically is now performing better than other peer countries on economic growth, unemployment, redundancies, average wage increases, etc. There is still some way to go on reducing inflation and interest rates, but I have every confidence in Britain whichever party is in government.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 16, 2024 12:39:48 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/Remind me why we were unable to buy British lamb pre Brexit again?
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Post by wannabee on May 16, 2024 16:07:05 GMT
Mr Coke you simply construct an argument around whatever circumstances are prevailing at the time to defend Brexit come what may. The simple reason UK is conducting Border Checks is that it signed an International Agreement to do so. The EU did it on Day 1 Its taken UK 3 1/2 years to partially do so. Checks on Food and Animals from Ireland, one of the main Food suppliers wont start for at least another year When I pointed out to you previously several times that UK was incompetent by not carrying out borders checks on Food your answer was completely different to now, you said why should they Standards have not changed since leaving the EU. Another main reason UK is finally performing partial Border Checks on Food is that if it didn't under WTO Most favoured nation rules it would have to stop Border Checks on Food from ROW The reality is that UK is importing the same amount of Food from EU, or are you calling the Lady a liar, it just costs more due to non tariff costs and Border Checks and there is less variety because some EU Suppliers can't be bothered with the Administration to supply the small UK Market The UK left the EU 3 1/2 years ago but in England, agriculture being devolved, the majority of Subsidies paid to Farmers is still CAP Style Payments based on an average of what Farmers received in 2020-22. One of the main reasons Basic Payments continue is that the IT System to implement doesn't work and very few Farmers signed up to SFI The Wesh Government has just abandoned trying to use anything else other than CAP style Payments for at least another year. 70% of Scotland Farm Subsidies are CAP Style direct payments and Northern Ireland hasn't changed at all as far as I'm aware as it would put them at a disadvantage compared to Republic Farmers The concern in the Vetinary Sector is not as you describe but just last week MPs had this to say: Shortage of vets getting worse because of Brexit, MPs warn they went on to say
The number of EU vets has more than halved since Brexit while access for them has become harder, animal controls have increased and public sector pay has stalled.
A scarcity of vets poses a danger to protecting animal and human health, the UK's £4.2m meat, dairy and egg export trade, and guaranteeing Animal Welfare and Food Security
They said a shortage is of particular concern as due to Brexit there are more biosecurity measures for animals coming into the UK, food and animal certification has changed and it is harder to recruit vets from overseas.
Vet experts they spoke to were apprehensive about the UK's ability to deal with ongoing or significant disease outbreaks in animals.
news.sky.com/story/amp/shortage-of-vets-getting-worse-because-of-brexit-mps-warn-13131741You are correct to be critical of the government's slowness to introduce import controls. They should have been done much sooner. Buf I suspect the pandemic and invasion has redirected priorities. Nevertheless government has dragged its feet on Brexit since the vote to leave, mainly I suspect because the establishment and civil service have put every obstacle in its way. Veterinary controls should have been introduced sooner. www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/vets-say-government-decision-to-delay-import-checks-requirement-by-up-to-18-months-flies-in-the-face-of-common-sense/Are you in favour of introducing controls to prevent deseases from Europe or in favour of letting them in? As with most things the vet shortage will be met by supply and demand. Vet salaries are rocketing and the number of vets will follow, from training, people returning to the profession, and immigration. You keep harping on about CAP payments. The Agiculture Act makes it quite clear that CAP payments will be phased out over 8 years. I fully expect it will take longer, it always does with government. It is clearly going to take a long time to reverse the negative trends of decades of EU membership. In the case of food there has been huge disruption by the pandemic, invasion impact on wofld fod prices and energy costs, etc. I shall continue to highlight Brexit progress. Britain has achieved sovereignty and can elect law makers of our choice. Freed itself of the ECOJ and rising net financial payments to the EU, started to negotiate new trade deals (which will also take many years), and economically is now performing better than other peer countries on economic growth, unemployment, redundancies, average wage increases, etc. There is still some way to go on reducing inflation and interest rates, but I have every confidence in Britain whichever party is in government. Of course I think Government should make good on its pledge "To Take Back Control of Our Borders" and I don't buy COVID of Ukraine as excuses when EU implemented Border Checks immediately. What I don't agree with is the necessity in the first place when an SPS Agreement between EU and UK to maintain equivalent Stands removes the need for this unproductive expensive activity which is bourne by the Consumer The introduction by EU of Border Control checks immediately is one of the reasons why there is a Vet shortage as many are engage in complete SPS Certificates adding extra administration and red tape which Brexiteers said would be reduced. On the contrary Vet salaries are far from soaring as the MPs report in my link attests In fact the minimum salary of £48K required to get a Skills Visa is one of the impediment in attracting Overseas Vets as they simply don't earn this unless highly skilled. Their recommendation was to reduce the salary required for a Vet to get a Skills Visa to £38K Farmers like any other workers will engage in activities which maximise their income except their output is subject to weather conditions Let's say in 5 years time Farm Income Subsidies is based 50/50 between producing food and growing trees, flowers wilding etc Not being stupid Farmers will spend 50% of their time producing food and the remainder on wilding etc I'm not disputing that it will help the Environment, but could you explain how this increases Food Production in UK, reduces Imported Food or improves Food Security? It does the exact opposite of all of those things. If this is a Policy which people are comfortable with fine, but don't you or Government go spouting contradictions, it is one thing of the other Bacic Economics of Opportunity Cost.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 16, 2024 16:13:41 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/Remind me why we were unable to buy British lamb pre Brexit again? It was still probably glowing in the dark from Chernobyl
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 16:21:11 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on May 16, 2024 16:58:54 GMT
You are correct to be critical of the government's slowness to introduce import controls. They should have been done much sooner. Buf I suspect the pandemic and invasion has redirected priorities. Nevertheless government has dragged its feet on Brexit since the vote to leave, mainly I suspect because the establishment and civil service have put every obstacle in its way. Veterinary controls should have been introduced sooner. www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/vets-say-government-decision-to-delay-import-checks-requirement-by-up-to-18-months-flies-in-the-face-of-common-sense/Are you in favour of introducing controls to prevent deseases from Europe or in favour of letting them in? As with most things the vet shortage will be met by supply and demand. Vet salaries are rocketing and the number of vets will follow, from training, people returning to the profession, and immigration. You keep harping on about CAP payments. The Agiculture Act makes it quite clear that CAP payments will be phased out over 8 years. I fully expect it will take longer, it always does with government. It is clearly going to take a long time to reverse the negative trends of decades of EU membership. In the case of food there has been huge disruption by the pandemic, invasion impact on wofld fod prices and energy costs, etc. I shall continue to highlight Brexit progress. Britain has achieved sovereignty and can elect law makers of our choice. Freed itself of the ECOJ and rising net financial payments to the EU, started to negotiate new trade deals (which will also take many years), and economically is now performing better than other peer countries on economic growth, unemployment, redundancies, average wage increases, etc. There is still some way to go on reducing inflation and interest rates, but I have every confidence in Britain whichever party is in government. Of course I think Government should make good on its pledge "To Take Back Control of Our Borders" and I don't buy COVID of Ukraine as excuses when EU implemented Border Checks immediately. What I don't agree with is the necessity in the first place when an SPS Agreement between EU and UK to maintain equivalent Stands removes the need for this unproductive expensive activity which is bourne by the Consumer The introduction by EU of Border Control checks immediately is one of the reasons why there is a Vet shortage as many are engage in complete SPS Certificates adding extra administration and red tape which Brexiteers said would be reduced. On the contrary Vet salaries are far from soaring as the MPs report in my link attests In fact the minimum salary of £48K required to get a Skills Visa is one of the impediment in attracting Overseas Vets as they simply don't earn this unless highly skilled. Their recommendation was to reduce the salary required for a Vet to get a Skills Visa to £38K Farmers like any other workers will engage in activities which maximise their income except their output is subject to weather conditions Let's say in 5 years time Farm Income Subsidies is based 50/50 between producing food and growing trees, flowers wilding etc Not being stupid Farmers will spend 50% of their time producing food and the remainder on wilding etc I'm not disputing that it will help the Environment, but could you explain how this increases Food Production in UK, reduces Imported Food or improves Food Security? It does the exact opposite of all of those things. If this is a Policy which people are comfortable with fine, but don't you or Government go spouting contradictions, it is one thing of the other Bacic Economics of Opportunity Cost. As a ardent remain voter I’m interested in your opinion on puffins should we cave in to eu Pressure over Sand eel fishing Or should be hold firm protect our wildlife and risk tariffs And before you say if we hadn’t of left we wouldn’t of had this problem which of course is true The puffins would of been fucked
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 17:02:09 GMT
You are correct to be critical of the government's slowness to introduce import controls. They should have been done much sooner. Buf I suspect the pandemic and invasion has redirected priorities. Nevertheless government has dragged its feet on Brexit since the vote to leave, mainly I suspect because the establishment and civil service have put every obstacle in its way. Veterinary controls should have been introduced sooner. www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/vets-say-government-decision-to-delay-import-checks-requirement-by-up-to-18-months-flies-in-the-face-of-common-sense/Are you in favour of introducing controls to prevent deseases from Europe or in favour of letting them in? As with most things the vet shortage will be met by supply and demand. Vet salaries are rocketing and the number of vets will follow, from training, people returning to the profession, and immigration. You keep harping on about CAP payments. The Agiculture Act makes it quite clear that CAP payments will be phased out over 8 years. I fully expect it will take longer, it always does with government. It is clearly going to take a long time to reverse the negative trends of decades of EU membership. In the case of food there has been huge disruption by the pandemic, invasion impact on wofld fod prices and energy costs, etc. I shall continue to highlight Brexit progress. Britain has achieved sovereignty and can elect law makers of our choice. Freed itself of the ECOJ and rising net financial payments to the EU, started to negotiate new trade deals (which will also take many years), and economically is now performing better than other peer countries on economic growth, unemployment, redundancies, average wage increases, etc. There is still some way to go on reducing inflation and interest rates, but I have every confidence in Britain whichever party is in government. Of course I think Government should make good on its pledge "To Take Back Control of Our Borders" and I don't buy COVID of Ukraine as excuses when EU implemented Border Checks immediately. What I don't agree with is the necessity in the first place when an SPS Agreement between EU and UK to maintain equivalent Stands removes the need for this unproductive expensive activity which is bourne by the Consumer The introduction by EU of Border Control checks immediately is one of the reasons why there is a Vet shortage as many are engage in complete SPS Certificates adding extra administration and red tape which Brexiteers said would be reduced. On the contrary Vet salaries are far from soaring as the MPs report in my link attests In fact the minimum salary of £48K required to get a Skills Visa is one of the impediment in attracting Overseas Vets as they simply don't earn this unless highly skilled. Their recommendation was to reduce the salary required for a Vet to get a Skills Visa to £38K Farmers like any other workers will engage in activities which maximise their income except their output is subject to weather conditions Let's say in 5 years time Farm Income Subsidies is based 50/50 between producing food and growing trees, flowers wilding etc Not being stupid Farmers will spend 50% of their time producing food and the remainder on wilding etc I'm not disputing that it will help the Environment, but could you explain how this increases Food Production in UK, reduces Imported Food or improves Food Security? It does the exact opposite of all of those things. If this is a Policy which people are comfortable with fine, but don't you or Government go spouting contradictions, it is one thing of the other Bacic Economics of Opportunity Cost. You sem to have a faith in equivalent standards. 1. I once had a machine delivered on loan from France to use in a UK quarry. It never turned a wheel and went back to France because the safety guarding and wiring / insulation were totally out of compliance with British regulations. 2. I once had a German engineer recommend a piece of engineering kit to purchase. My works engineer said we could not do that because the equipment was not CE marked. The German engineered laughed and said that is just EU rules we take no notice of them. To be fair Merkel did a lot to get Germany to comply better with EU rules. 3. www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/factory-red-dust-death-italy-south-tarantoNeed I say anything? It is a joke to suggest all EU countries comply with EU regulations. Many interpret them totally differently. Some like my former colleagues in IJmuiden, and in Lulea are very good. Some are dire. I was once told a fifth of the land in Poland is polluted with toxicity from the communist years with heavy metals and such, discharged from chimneys. God knows what goes on in some countries. I once had a French boss in Paris tell me to switch off the chimney stack monitoring to avoid restricting production rate. I refused. There is z wide variation in standards. I once lectured to a government committee on industrial hygiene, which UK coke ovens led on in Europe at the time. Surprisingly the countries that had some of the best workplace hygiene monitoring were east European. This was a hang over from the communist days when workers were compensated for how unhealthy their working conditions were, so monitoring was extensive to justify payment. Bhe example I quoted above of meat from Romania is typical. We must protect ourselves from unscrupulous people in the EU. As for vet salaries. Just look at the Internet for vet salaries. £38k is a starting salary for a small animals vet, looking after doggies, moggies, and budgies. One of my neighbours sons is training to be a vet. He was seeing practical experience during vacations and I put him in touch with Peter Wright, the Yorkshire vet I have known for over 40 years. Peter recommended a slaughter house. Vets in farming, government, food processing, earn big money.
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Post by wannabee on May 16, 2024 17:58:24 GMT
Of course I think Government should make good on its pledge "To Take Back Control of Our Borders" and I don't buy COVID of Ukraine as excuses when EU implemented Border Checks immediately. What I don't agree with is the necessity in the first place when an SPS Agreement between EU and UK to maintain equivalent Stands removes the need for this unproductive expensive activity which is bourne by the Consumer The introduction by EU of Border Control checks immediately is one of the reasons why there is a Vet shortage as many are engage in complete SPS Certificates adding extra administration and red tape which Brexiteers said would be reduced. On the contrary Vet salaries are far from soaring as the MPs report in my link attests In fact the minimum salary of £48K required to get a Skills Visa is one of the impediment in attracting Overseas Vets as they simply don't earn this unless highly skilled. Their recommendation was to reduce the salary required for a Vet to get a Skills Visa to £38K Farmers like any other workers will engage in activities which maximise their income except their output is subject to weather conditions Let's say in 5 years time Farm Income Subsidies is based 50/50 between producing food and growing trees, flowers wilding etc Not being stupid Farmers will spend 50% of their time producing food and the remainder on wilding etc I'm not disputing that it will help the Environment, but could you explain how this increases Food Production in UK, reduces Imported Food or improves Food Security? It does the exact opposite of all of those things. If this is a Policy which people are comfortable with fine, but don't you or Government go spouting contradictions, it is one thing of the other Bacic Economics of Opportunity Cost. You sem to have a faith in equivalent standards. 1. I once had a machine delivered on loan from France to use in a UK quarry. It never turned a wheel and went back to France because the safety guarding and wiring / insulation were totally out of compliance with British regulations. 2. I once had a German engineer recommend a piece of engineering kit to purchase. My works engineer said we could not do that because the equipment was not CE marked. The German engineered laughed and said that is just EU rules we take no notice of them. To be fair Merkel did a lot to get Germany to comply better with EU rules. 3. www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/factory-red-dust-death-italy-south-tarantoNeed I say anything? It is a joke to suggest all EU countries comply with EU regulations. Many interpret them totally differently. Some like my former colleagues in IJmuiden, and in Lulea are very good. Some are dire. I was once told a fifth of the land in Poland is polluted with toxicity from the communist years with heavy metals and such, discharged from chimneys. God knows what goes on in some countries. I once had a French boss in Paris tell me to switch off the chimney stack monitoring to avoid restricting production rate. I refused. There is z wide variation in standards. I once lectured to a government committee on industrial hygiene, which UK coke ovens led on in Europe at the time. Surprisingly the countries that had some of the best workplace hygiene monitoring were east European. This was a hang over from the communist days when workers were compensated for how unhealthy their working conditions were, so monitoring was extensive to justify payment. Bhe example I quoted above of meat from Romania is typical. We must protect ourselves from unscrupulous people in the EU. As for vet salaries. Just look at the Internet for vet salaries. £38k is a starting salary for a small animals vet, looking after doggies, moggies, and budgies. One of my neighbours sons is training to be a vet. He was seeing practical experience during vacations and I put him in touch with Peter Wright, the Yorkshire vet I have known for over 40 years. Peter recommended a slaughter house. Vets in farming, government, food processing, earn big money. It seems pointless to argue backwards and forwards as you clearly just disbelieve experts in their field like the Lady in the Video with Nige, British MPs who have studied the problem, I expect you won't believe the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons either. In 2019 there were 2782 new entrants to the Register in 2021 there were 2119. In 2019 53% of New Registrants were from EU in 2021 this was down to 23% By all means continue to live in a parallel universe www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/recruitment-retention-and-return-in-the-veterinary-profession/#:~:text=The%20figures%20show%20a%20steady,from%202%2C782%20in%202019%20to EU Standards were OK for UK for 47 years what has happened after Brexit to make those Standards fall. If what you say is true can you imagine the damage that may have been done to people's health when UK wasn't performing any checks In any case I'm quite certain Labour will pursue a pragmatic approach despite what you or I might think I think I once had a dodgy Burger in Amsterdam, it happens, I got over it. I'm prepared to believe facts rather than your anecdotes
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 18:52:23 GMT
You sem to have a faith in equivalent standards. 1. I once had a machine delivered on loan from France to use in a UK quarry. It never turned a wheel and went back to France because the safety guarding and wiring / insulation were totally out of compliance with British regulations. 2. I once had a German engineer recommend a piece of engineering kit to purchase. My works engineer said we could not do that because the equipment was not CE marked. The German engineered laughed and said that is just EU rules we take no notice of them. To be fair Merkel did a lot to get Germany to comply better with EU rules. 3. www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/factory-red-dust-death-italy-south-tarantoNeed I say anything? It is a joke to suggest all EU countries comply with EU regulations. Many interpret them totally differently. Some like my former colleagues in IJmuiden, and in Lulea are very good. Some are dire. I was once told a fifth of the land in Poland is polluted with toxicity from the communist years with heavy metals and such, discharged from chimneys. God knows what goes on in some countries. I once had a French boss in Paris tell me to switch off the chimney stack monitoring to avoid restricting production rate. I refused. There is z wide variation in standards. I once lectured to a government committee on industrial hygiene, which UK coke ovens led on in Europe at the time. Surprisingly the countries that had some of the best workplace hygiene monitoring were east European. This was a hang over from the communist days when workers were compensated for how unhealthy their working conditions were, so monitoring was extensive to justify payment. Bhe example I quoted above of meat from Romania is typical. We must protect ourselves from unscrupulous people in the EU. As for vet salaries. Just look at the Internet for vet salaries. £38k is a starting salary for a small animals vet, looking after doggies, moggies, and budgies. One of my neighbours sons is training to be a vet. He was seeing practical experience during vacations and I put him in touch with Peter Wright, the Yorkshire vet I have known for over 40 years. Peter recommended a slaughter house. Vets in farming, government, food processing, earn big money. It seems pointless to argue backwards and forwards as you clearly just disbelieve experts in their field like the Lady in the Video with Nige, British MPs who have studied the problem, I expect you won't believe the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons either. In 2019 there were 2782 new entrants to the Register in 2021 there were 2119. In 2019 53% of New Registrants were from EU in 2021 this was down to 23% By all means continue to live in a parallel universe www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/recruitment-retention-and-return-in-the-veterinary-profession/#:~:text=The%20figures%20show%20a%20steady,from%202%2C782%20in%202019%20to EU Standards were OK for UK for 47 years what has happened after Brexit to make those Standards fall. If what you say is true can you imagine the damage that may have been done to people's health when UK wasn't performing any checks In any case I'm quite certain Labour will pursue a pragmatic approach despite what you or I might think I think I once had a dodgy Burger in Amsterdam, it happens, I got over it. I'm prepared to believe facts rather than your anecdotes Lord save us from experts! You are quoting out of date statistics. www.vettimes.co.uk/news/rcvs-report-reveals-big-jump-in-eu-vet-registration-figures/Increaed salaries (have you looked at the jobs on the Internet?) will attract more recruits, believe me. 47 years of EU membership destroyed much of the UK 's production capability and since the 1980s reduced our food self sufficiency, gave us slower economic growth than the 50s and 60s, increased inequality, increased the North South divide. Give non EU membership a chance. I'm hopeful that a Labour government will make much needed social improvements, but they need to be paid for which I hope Starmer realises. Most of my lifetime we have had Tory government because everytime Labour has governed they have messed up the economy. In the 40s it was an obsession with nationalisation and we ended up with more rationing than during the war,; in the 60s we got more nationalisation, devaluation, and stagflation, for the first time in history graduates struggled to get jobs, in the 70s we had the "winter of discontent" and weren't able to bury the dead, and in 00s we had the biggest recession of modern times due to lack of bank control. Blair and Brown's government lasted longer than the others because it inherited a healthy economy and lived on increased personal debt but in the end collapsed the economy like al the previous Labour governments. God luck to Starmer, he will be under huge pressure from the loony left, who will probably want to do what Brown did and raid the pension funds. We left the EU in 2020 and despite Covid, war, etc. the UK economy consistently outperforms Germany and workers are more secure in their jobs and enjoying a return to real wage increases much faster than they did after 2008. If that is a parallel universe, more please! Nevermind what experts say on the tele, or doom and gloom forecasts, look at actual results. The further a country is from the EU like US, Canada, Japan, the better its economy performs.
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Post by wannabee on May 16, 2024 18:55:34 GMT
As a ardent remain voter I’m interested in your opinion on puffins should we cave in to eu Pressure over Sand eel fishing Or should be hold firm protect our wildlife and risk tariffs And before you say if we hadn’t of left we wouldn’t of had this problem which of course is true The puffins would of been fucked My opinion for what it's worth is that Puffins may be more endangered by Icelanders eating them The Danes account for 84% of Sand Eel catches in the North Sea and are subject to Annual TAC Quotas which can vary widely from year to year to preserve stocks. I would have thought if the dispute goes to arbitration it should be a simple enough scientific exercise for UK to demonstrate if overfishing of the Sand Eel is taking place which is interfering with the Eco System Another lesson to be learned maybe be careful if you sign an agreement you know what your signing It's quite likely that in a few years the UK may not have a position as the North Sea warms the Sand Eel has been moving further North which is bad news for Puffins who may have to develop more stamina to reach its feeding ground.
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Post by wannabee on May 16, 2024 19:08:20 GMT
It seems pointless to argue backwards and forwards as you clearly just disbelieve experts in their field like the Lady in the Video with Nige, British MPs who have studied the problem, I expect you won't believe the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons either. In 2019 there were 2782 new entrants to the Register in 2021 there were 2119. In 2019 53% of New Registrants were from EU in 2021 this was down to 23% By all means continue to live in a parallel universe www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/recruitment-retention-and-return-in-the-veterinary-profession/#:~:text=The%20figures%20show%20a%20steady,from%202%2C782%20in%202019%20to EU Standards were OK for UK for 47 years what has happened after Brexit to make those Standards fall. If what you say is true can you imagine the damage that may have been done to people's health when UK wasn't performing any checks In any case I'm quite certain Labour will pursue a pragmatic approach despite what you or I might think I think I once had a dodgy Burger in Amsterdam, it happens, I got over it. I'm prepared to believe facts rather than your anecdotes Lord save us from experts! You are quoting out of date statistics. www.vettimes.co.uk/news/rcvs-report-reveals-big-jump-in-eu-vet-registration-figures/Increaed salaries (have you looked at the jobs on the Internet?) will attract more recruits, believe me. 47 years of EU membership destroyed much of the UK 's production capability and since the 1980s reduced our food self sufficiency, gave us slower economic growth than the 50s and 60s, increased inequality, increased the North South divide. Give non EU membership a chance. I'm hopeful that a Labour government will make much needed social improvements, but they need to be paid for which I hope Starmer realises. Most of my lifetime we have had Tory government because everytime Labour has governed they have messed up the economy. In the 40s it was an obsession with nationalisation and we ended up with more rationing than during the war,; in the 60s we got more nationalisation, devaluation, and stagflation, for the first time in history graduates struggled to get jobs, in the 70s we had the "winter of discontent" and weren't able to bury the dead, and in 00s we had the biggest recession of modern times due to lack of bank control. Blair and Brown's government lasted longer than the others because it inherited a healthy economy and lived on increased personal debt but in the end collapsed the economy like al the previous Labour governments. God luck to Starmer, he will be under huge pressure from the loony left, who will probably want to do what Brown did and raid the pension funds. We left the EU in 2020 and despite Covid, war, etc. the UK economy consistently outperforms Germany and workers are more secure in their jobs and enjoying a return to real wage increases much faster than they did after 2008. If that is a parallel universe, more please! Nevermind what experts say on the tele, or doom and gloom forecasts, look at actual results. The further a country is from the EU like US, Canada, Japan, the better its economy performs. You really should read what you link properly - I quote Following the 2016 referendum, the annual number of EU vets registering to practise in the UK slumped by nearly 70%, from a peak of 1,196 in 2018 to 365 in 2021. But the 2022 total of 480, which was reported to the latest council meeting at the University of Nottingham’s vet school on 19 January, represents an increase of 31.5% on the preceding year.
I realise even from you Brexit expectations are low but to claim a recovery from a total collapse to now be ONLY 40% of what it was previously is scraping the Rishi Barrel of stretching credibility
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 16, 2024 19:38:53 GMT
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Post by numpty40 on May 16, 2024 19:59:46 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 16, 2024 20:57:01 GMT
Just about all commentators accept Brexit has hit the UK economy. In this instance I am questioning recent suggestions on here that UK workers are enjoying some sort of golden era of real wage growth. Some UK workers are doing quite well, many much less so, with the report from Lancaster University seeming to suggest that many lower wage earners are unlikely to fall into the former category in 2024.
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Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2024 22:36:32 GMT
Lord save us from experts! You are quoting out of date statistics. www.vettimes.co.uk/news/rcvs-report-reveals-big-jump-in-eu-vet-registration-figures/Increaed salaries (have you looked at the jobs on the Internet?) will attract more recruits, believe me. 47 years of EU membership destroyed much of the UK 's production capability and since the 1980s reduced our food self sufficiency, gave us slower economic growth than the 50s and 60s, increased inequality, increased the North South divide. Give non EU membership a chance. I'm hopeful that a Labour government will make much needed social improvements, but they need to be paid for which I hope Starmer realises. Most of my lifetime we have had Tory government because everytime Labour has governed they have messed up the economy. In the 40s it was an obsession with nationalisation and we ended up with more rationing than during the war,; in the 60s we got more nationalisation, devaluation, and stagflation, for the first time in history graduates struggled to get jobs, in the 70s we had the "winter of discontent" and weren't able to bury the dead, and in 00s we had the biggest recession of modern times due to lack of bank control. Blair and Brown's government lasted longer than the others because it inherited a healthy economy and lived on increased personal debt but in the end collapsed the economy like al the previous Labour governments. God luck to Starmer, he will be under huge pressure from the loony left, who will probably want to do what Brown did and raid the pension funds. We left the EU in 2020 and despite Covid, war, etc. the UK economy consistently outperforms Germany and workers are more secure in their jobs and enjoying a return to real wage increases much faster than they did after 2008. If that is a parallel universe, more please! Nevermind what experts say on the tele, or doom and gloom forecasts, look at actual results. The further a country is from the EU like US, Canada, Japan, the better its economy performs. You really should read what you link properly - I quote Following the 2016 referendum, the annual number of EU vets registering to practise in the UK slumped by nearly 70%, from a peak of 1,196 in 2018 to 365 in 2021. But the 2022 total of 480, which was reported to the latest council meeting at the University of Nottingham’s vet school on 19 January, represents an increase of 31.5% on the preceding year.
I realise even from you Brexit expectations are low but to claim a recovery from a total collapse to now be ONLY 40% of what it was previously is scraping the Rishi Barrel of stretching credibility I am not claiming " a recovery from total collapse".The number you are quoting, which I was responding to, is the number of vet registering to practice each year, not the total number of vets practicing, which runs well into 5 figures. The total number practicing varies from year to year depending on leavers/ retirees / people returning to the profession / immigrants taking employment / and of course those who have left the country for whatever reason, including naturally Brexit. The total number in practice fluctuates year to year: www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/318888-blank-355.png&tbnid=WSGtQJ0yO2FTMM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://www.statista.com/statistics/318888/numbers-of-veterinarians-in-the-uk/&docid=srcQ8IUNcA1WRM&w=355&h=253&hl=en-GB&source=sh/x/im/m5/4&kgs=c79fd5f0492ec7b7&shem=abme,trie,xga1pt1 So it goes up and down as it always has done since before Brexit arose. The UK does not trained enough vets. It is a long time since it did. Two of the vets my wife and I have used were Australian. They coma and go. The UK has long relied on vets coming from abroad, that is no reason not to leave the EU. The RCVS has approved for registration qualifications awarded in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the USA and Canada. A survey* in 2019 showed there are a lot more vets from those countries (circa 700) than the EU or rest of Europe (circa 500) excluding Ireland, which is included in the UK total of 86.3%. There were also circa 300 vets from other countries in the world. * Institute of Employment Studies Report / The 2019 survey of the veterinary profession / A report for the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeon But the important thing is the overall annual trend is upwards, as is the demand, not just due to food import controls more more significantly increased pet ownership. It is sensible to expect that with significantly improved pay the trend will continue upwards, particularly immigrants from the rest of the non EU world. There is no " total collapse", there never was one just a reduced number of new registrations as has happened repeatedly is years gone by well before the referendum. As usual any impact of Brexit is wildly exaggerated, and figures manipulated to mislead the public. Add this to the list of "no turkeys for Christmas", "no presents for Christmas", no lorry drivers and bare shelves in supermarkets, panic buying of petrol, and any other hysteria the anti Brexit media can generate.
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Post by wannabee on May 17, 2024 3:06:44 GMT
Project fear is still alive and kicking, just as it was for control of imports was going to lead to empty shelves. The answer to most British problems is always the same, namely British people should support British products, which are best. Our future is now in our own hands and not ruled by Brussels. Buy British beef and lamb: redtractorassurance.org.uk/news/ahdb-confirms-world-leading-beef-and-lamb/As a self declared Brexiteer and Environmentalist do you have a dilemma that New Zealand Lamb is being produced using Pesticides which are banned in UK and then travel refrigerated thousands of miles and undercut British produced Lamb which is produced to higher Environmental Standards? As a secondary question harking back to your specialist subject. You have previously decried the Chinese for Price Dumping Steel, do you equally decry New Zealand for Price Dumping as Lamb prices are considerably higher in New Zealand than New Zealand lamb which has travelled thousands of miles to UK?
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