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Post by Eggybread on Sept 24, 2019 11:36:41 GMT
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom broke the law to silence Parliament, he and Rees-Mogg lied to our Queen’s face to achieve that goal. A fantastic day for our democracy. If anyone wants to argue that the 11 top judges in the country all making a unanimous decision is wrong, there is no point in discussing anything It IS what bexiteers have wanted and they have got it, parliamentary sovereignty. How is it a fabulous day for democracy. It doesn’t trump no pun intended the last three years of the these people trying to thwart and reverse democracy. How have the judges tried to stop brexshit? Parliamentary sovereignty is what brexiteers want and Johnson attempted to stop that so you should be pleased. You cannot have it both ways.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 24, 2019 11:37:16 GMT
Good lord....bbc just did live reaction at Hanley and the first guy must have come straight from the bushes at Clayton wood. I saw this 😂 ... Absolutely horrific. As soon as anything on the telly says, "We're crossing live to Stoke-on-Trent" and shudder goes through my spine. It's the same when we have fan shots live on Sky, I swear they do it on purpose. I had to switch channels. Fast.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Sept 24, 2019 11:38:52 GMT
I saw this 😂 ... Absolutely horrific. As soon as anything on the telly says, "We're crossing live to Stoke-on-Trent" and shudder goes through my spine. It's the same when we have fan shots live on Sky, I swear they do it on purpose. Did they go outside Wetherspoons? Potteries centre mate, just outside River Island with what looked like an empty unit next to it. Keeping it classy. It's never filmed in Trentham Gardens is it. 🙄
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2019 11:39:36 GMT
It should be bigger than party politics, Paul. Its about honouring a vote. Its been the exact opposite for 3 years. To be fair, the decision from the court today was nothing to do with honouring, or not honouring, the vote. Correct. The court supported the case that Government is accountable to Parliament. Parliament is of course accountable to the people. How that works out remains to be seen.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Sept 24, 2019 11:39:50 GMT
I saw this 😂 ... Absolutely horrific. As soon as anything on the telly says, "We're crossing live to Stoke-on-Trent" and shudder goes through my spine. It's the same when we have fan shots live on Sky, I swear they do it on purpose. I had to switch channels. Fast. Back of the sofa for me. I feel duty bound to stick through it.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2019 11:41:45 GMT
How is it a fabulous day for democracy. It doesn’t trump no pun intended the last three years of the these people trying to thwart and reverse democracy. How have the judges tried to stop brexshit? Parliamentary sovereignty is what brexiteers want and Johnson attempted to stop that so you should be pleased. You cannot have it both ways. Correct, the court cannot overturn any primary legislation established by Parliament, because parliament is sovereign. Prorogation is a decision taken by the executive and carried out through the House of Lords under instruction from the PM without the consent of parliament. Therefore if such a prorogation is not justified (which the court found it not to be for a whole host of reasons) then it can be reversed. The court cannot touch any of the Brexit bills that have gone through parliament. It's an important distinction, one that will sadly be lost in a sea of rhetoric.
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Post by essexstokey on Sept 24, 2019 11:44:14 GMT
noticed one poster (roger) has disappeared wonder which stone he's hiding under!! or have conservative central office not told him what to say yet!!
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Post by starkiller on Sept 24, 2019 11:46:07 GMT
Nowhere in this judgement does it say that the PM lied. Johnson said repeatedly "he wanted to carry out the prorogation ahead of a Queen's Speech so he could outline his government's new policies" The courts said emphatically that this was not the case. Misled, lied ,tomato, tomarto you decide. I'm glad the decision was based on mind-reading. You do realise this will make him even more popular with ordinary people? The perception is that it's him against the establishment and he'll use that to win an election.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 24, 2019 11:48:41 GMT
As a leaver, I welcome the decision, Bojo went too far and needed to be slapped down. Assuming the EU agree to an extension (I can't believe they won't), then Boris can call an election effectively on a no deal Brexit and if he gets the numbers, then we will leave with the blessing of Parliament.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 24, 2019 11:52:18 GMT
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2019 11:53:49 GMT
That's worse than I imagined, he looks like he's off a sketch show ffs.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 24, 2019 11:56:22 GMT
When you start to doubt the law, you’re on s slippery slope. Name the law that was broken otherwise it appears like a political decision. The high court said no law was broken. The oldest of laws... “Thou shalt not bare false witness”
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2019 11:58:13 GMT
As a leaver, I welcome the decision, Bojo went too far and needed to be slapped down. Assuming the EU agree to an extension (I can't believe they won't), then Boris can call an election effectively on a no deal Brexit and if he gets the numbers, then we will leave with the blessing of Parliament. The ramifications of allowing the prorogation to stand would have been profound and completely changed the nature of a parliamentary democracy. The concept of a PM suspending parliament because he didn't like how it was going to vote or scrutinise his bill would effectively allow the PM to turn the UK into an executive government nation when he wanted to. Completely unacceptable.
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Post by Eggybread on Sept 24, 2019 12:00:20 GMT
Johnson said repeatedly "he wanted to carry out the prorogation ahead of a Queen's Speech so he could outline his government's new policies" The courts said emphatically that this was not the case. Misled, lied ,tomato, tomarto you decide. I'm glad the decision was based on mind-reading. You do realise this will make him even more popular with ordinary people? The perception is that it's him against the establishment and he'll use that to win an election. He wont be in charge come an election.More popular?Really many tories are ardent royalists they will not like it one bit that he has lied/deceived their Queen. You must take people as mugs if you think he will become more popular.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2019 12:04:49 GMT
I'm glad the decision was based on mind-reading. You do realise this will make him even more popular with ordinary people? The perception is that it's him against the establishment and he'll use that to win an election. He wont be in charge come an election.More popular?Really many tories are ardent royalists they will not like it one bit that he has lied/deceived their Queen. You must take people as mugs if you think he will become more popular. I thought 17.4 million were mugs, and believed what they read on a bus?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2019 12:07:53 GMT
Unlawful doesn't imply that a law has been broken it suggests that the action taken was unprecedented and taken outside of the existing laws and customs. That is to say, in contravention of the precedents set in our constitution and without justification.
There isn't a Proroguing Parliament Inappropriately Act to be broken that carries some kind of criminal sentence. Again a subtle but important distinction that will be lost in the rhetoric of both sides of this debate.
Basically, Boris acted outside his brief according to our constitutions and therefore that decision cannot stand, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's taken a decision he didn't have the power to enforce.
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Sept 24, 2019 12:07:57 GMT
What an absolute shambles Brexit has been from start to finish. And the Tories can't blame anyone but themselves for this. Zero plan, zero clue and zero confidence.
Cameron called the referendum as a gamble to defeat UKIP, failed to campaign properly and lost, then quit. May repeatedly tried to push through the same vote several times, got defeated several times, then quit. BoJo came in, lost his first six votes, lost his Brother, had No Deal ruled unlawful, lost 21 MPs, had Proroguing ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court and will presumably now get booted out.
They gave it their best shot, however shambolic. So maybe it's not the personnel that's at fault, maybe Brexit is just unworkable?
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Post by foster on Sept 24, 2019 12:09:03 GMT
Really should not have let trickydicky on camera. Oh my fucking god.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 24, 2019 12:13:47 GMT
I'm glad the decision was based on mind-reading. You do realise this will make him even more popular with ordinary people? The perception is that it's him against the establishment and he'll use that to win an election. He wont be in charge come an election.More popular?Really many tories are ardent royalists they will not like it one bit that he has lied/deceived their Queen. You must take people as mugs if you think he will become more popular. I would assume his popularity will shift A couple of points either way People have already made there mind up about Johnson and brexit many moons ago And before you assume the mind of the average Tory they are far more worried about a corbyn led labour government than what might of been said to the queen As for brexit voters they now will be only more convinced that the establishment will do anything it can to remain
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Post by Eggybread on Sept 24, 2019 12:15:27 GMT
He wont be in charge come an election.More popular?Really many tories are ardent royalists they will not like it one bit that he has lied/deceived their Queen. You must take people as mugs if you think he will become more popular. I thought 17.4 million were mugs, and believed what they read on a bus? To be reasonable the people didn't really know anything at the time.They hopefully have learned fast. But going by the lads interview in the shopping centre after the judgement I dont hold my breath.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2019 12:25:26 GMT
Really should not have let trickydicky on camera. Oh my fucking god. Cunt! 😁
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 24, 2019 12:27:46 GMT
He wont be in charge come an election.More popular?Really many tories are ardent royalists they will not like it one bit that he has lied/deceived their Queen. You must take people as mugs if you think he will become more popular. I thought 17.4 million were mugs, and believed what they read on a bus? No, they were political & economic geniuses, With the ability to see into the future & all the ramifications of a Brexit vote & make that decision anyway. God Bless’emXx
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2019 12:28:02 GMT
Unlawful doesn't imply that a law has been broken it suggests that the action taken was unprecedented and taken outside of the existing laws and customs. That is to say, in contravention of the precedents set in our constitution and without justification. There isn't a Proroguing Parliament Inappropriately Act to be broken that carries some kind of criminal sentence. Again a subtle but important distinction that will be lost in the rhetoric of both sides of this debate. Basically, Boris acted outside his brief according to our constitutions and therefore that decision cannot stand, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's taken a decision he didn't have the power to enforce. Great summary. The question is what now? As indeed it was at the start of this epic thread. Remainers MPs might like to take a moment in this moment of victory to remember that while they have won a battle the war is still ongoing. How they conduct themselves over the next few days could well determine how the war ends. In particular, they need to agree quickly on who replaces Johnson. Because he surely can't remain in post.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2019 12:30:47 GMT
Unlawful doesn't imply that a law has been broken it suggests that the action taken was unprecedented and taken outside of the existing laws and customs. That is to say, in contravention of the precedents set in our constitution and without justification. There isn't a Proroguing Parliament Inappropriately Act to be broken that carries some kind of criminal sentence. Again a subtle but important distinction that will be lost in the rhetoric of both sides of this debate. Basically, Boris acted outside his brief according to our constitutions and therefore that decision cannot stand, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's taken a decision he didn't have the power to enforce. Great summary. The question is what now? As indeed it was at the start of this epic thread. Remainers MPs might like to take a moment in this moment of victory to remember that while they have won a battle the war is still ongoing. How they conduct themselves over the next few days could well determine how the war ends. In particular, they need to agree quickly on who replaces Johnson. Because he surely can't remain in post. Kinnock's rejigged thingy?
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 24, 2019 12:32:23 GMT
It’s even worse than I’d feared. Leave voters, God Bless’emXx
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Post by essexstokey on Sept 24, 2019 12:39:46 GMT
Just watched Johnson what an arrogant man says he will porogue again and when asked about 31st oct said basically he would ignore the law !! he cant see that anything he has done is wrong he is a liar and a joke of a pm think a vote of no confidence will go in tomorrow and a government of unity take over to stop a no deal brexit!!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 24, 2019 12:40:11 GMT
Unlawful doesn't imply that a law has been broken it suggests that the action taken was unprecedented and taken outside of the existing laws and customs. That is to say, in contravention of the precedents set in our constitution and without justification. There isn't a Proroguing Parliament Inappropriately Act to be broken that carries some kind of criminal sentence. Again a subtle but important distinction that will be lost in the rhetoric of both sides of this debate. Basically, Boris acted outside his brief according to our constitutions and therefore that decision cannot stand, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's taken a decision he didn't have the power to enforce. Great summary. The question is what now? As indeed it was at the start of this epic thread. Remainers MPs might like to take a moment in this moment of victory to remember that while they have won a battle the war is still ongoing. How they conduct themselves over the next few days could well determine how the war ends. In particular, they need to agree quickly on who replaces Johnson. Because he surely can't remain in post. No.10 just: "The prime minister will not be resigning". Steve Baker just: "The prime minister should prorogue parliament again".
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Post by Roland the Thompson Gunner on Sept 24, 2019 12:44:16 GMT
Oh look, another decision imposed by unelected officials; just like being in the EU.😂
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 12:46:32 GMT
Seriously fed up of this. We should have another referendum, with all facts declared truthfully, and then everyone who votes should sign said vote, saying that they will accept the outcome! It is a shambles!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 24, 2019 12:47:56 GMT
Unlawful doesn't imply that a law has been broken it suggests that the action taken was unprecedented and taken outside of the existing laws and customs. That is to say, in contravention of the precedents set in our constitution and without justification. There isn't a Proroguing Parliament Inappropriately Act to be broken that carries some kind of criminal sentence. Again a subtle but important distinction that will be lost in the rhetoric of both sides of this debate. Basically, Boris acted outside his brief according to our constitutions and therefore that decision cannot stand, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's taken a decision he didn't have the power to enforce. Great summary. The question is what now? As indeed it was at the start of this epic thread. Remainers MPs might like to take a moment in this moment of victory to remember that while they have won a battle the war is still ongoing. How they conduct themselves over the next few days could well determine how the war ends. In particular, they need to agree quickly on who replaces Johnson. Because he surely can't remain in post. Ah yes, "The Establishment". I must admit I thought that one of the key pillars of the Leave campaign was all about the sovereignty of the UK parliament and the supremacy of it's courts - yet when they actually get that they don't like it. Perhaps they should consider an appeal to the European courts.
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