|
Post by Saul Krakinov on Jan 22, 2017 10:40:54 GMT
Wahoo, nothing like a witch hunt to get the blood pumping early on a Sunday morning!!!
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 10:48:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 22, 2017 10:48:17 GMT
He was anonymous yesterday but if people are seriously suggesting he's been poor this season, then we may as well give up. If we're saying he hasn't been good enough then that means everybody else has been absolutely diabolical. Even if you ignore his goals, his overall play has still been very good. He's more of an industrious player than the likes of Bojan but it's 'tardery at its very best to suggest he's just a headless chicken in the mould of Whitehead. As things stand, he's been our best player of the season. Only Grant comes close in terms of consistency and performance levels. I think its more the point that you just can't see any effect Hughes and the coaching staff have had on how he's playing the game its just like he's still playing for Klopp. He hasn't always played that way. His energy is great but needs using in a more considered way. I think his energy levels and the ground he covers are plus points to his game. Why would you want to take that away? It's a misguided opinion to suggest working hard means you're just a talentless no hoper. The best teams in the world work hard and press the opposition when they don't have the ball. These are positive traits. I'll agree at times he needs to channel his efforts more "constructively", shall we say, but I wouldn't want him removing it from his game completely.
|
|
|
Post by nik80 on Jan 22, 2017 10:54:18 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! I'm not a fan at all but that is a hysterical response if ever there was one. Finding his best position and how he can best benefit the starting 11 is surely something Hughes could do with finding out. The fact that a very decent first 20 minutes turned into a creditable backs to the wall operation was everything to do with how poor both him and crouch were. Both worked their socks off but both were pretty useless when it came to actually doing positive things in possession of a football. Did you really think Crouch was poor? I thought Adam and Allen, and Whelan early doors, were all guilty of conceding possession cheaply, but I thought Crouch did all he could really. It was clearly a bloody hard fought draw by all in the end. I don't think it's the sort of game we can criticise any of them for.
|
|
|
Post by liamo on Jan 22, 2017 11:04:07 GMT
Joe Allen is the Binman of the team and i mean that in the most genuine way
He's been tasked with the job of chasing everything because he's got the best engine in the team, without fail he will run his balls off for 90 minutes and that's what brings us the balance that's settled us recently, it's why we can't play Bojan instead
He's the Binman because his job is dirty and not glorious but you'd sure as hell notice if he didn't show up for a few weeks, he's happily putting 120% in every game and doing what's been asked of him even if sometimes it means he's not mentioned much
|
|
|
Post by blakngreen on Jan 22, 2017 11:18:03 GMT
He's a good footballer, but the way we play, we should set up with two defensive midfielders and one attacking/creative midfielder. Unfortunately, he isn't either of those. Not trying to be awkward but what role does he fill then ? I thought they pressed us very hard yesterday and I think we are slightly under cooking how well we did to stem a lot of that. Yes we rode our luck with there woeful shooting and some good saves from Grant however as a team to a man everyone put in a shift, which is surely what we were looking for yesterday. I dunno it seems a bit wrong to single out players after what is after all a good point yesterday.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 11:21:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 11:21:24 GMT
Drop him back next to Glen Whelan and bring Afellay back in.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 11:27:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 11:27:46 GMT
If everyone is playing to their best he wouldn't be in our best XI.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jan 22, 2017 11:29:40 GMT
I think its more the point that you just can't see any effect Hughes and the coaching staff have had on how he's playing the game its just like he's still playing for Klopp. He hasn't always played that way. His energy is great but needs using in a more considered way. I think his energy levels and the ground he covers are plus points to his game. Why would you want to take that away? It's a misguided opinion to suggest working hard means you're just a talentless no hoper. The best teams in the world work hard and press the opposition when they don't have the ball. These are positive traits. I'll agree at times he needs to channel his efforts more "constructively", shall we say, but I wouldn't want him removing it from his game completely. Don't get me wrong I like his energy and workrate and think its an essential attribute to any player in any central midfield position in English football. As you say the best teams press hard to regain possession but they do it as a team. The rest of our team, particularly in the engineroom don't have the energy to play a high pressing game so that effectively leaves Joe playing a different gameplan to the rest of the team. Its a real headscratcher as to why our management team haven't developed more of a whole team approach. Its almost as if the pick they players and send them out to do their thing, which for me is too simplistic an approach.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 11:31:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 11:31:24 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! Good contribution. Another one who really doesn't understand the game.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 11:32:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by ysc1 on Jan 22, 2017 11:32:47 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! Eh? Why would we do that? Think your tampon has just fell out pal....
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 11:35:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 11:35:22 GMT
I think its more the point that you just can't see any effect Hughes and the coaching staff have had on how he's playing the game its just like he's still playing for Klopp. He hasn't always played that way. His energy is great but needs using in a more considered way. I think his energy levels and the ground he covers are plus points to his game. Why would you want to take that away? It's a misguided opinion to suggest working hard means you're just a talentless no hoper. The best teams in the world work hard and press the opposition when they don't have the ball. These are positive traits. I'll agree at times he needs to channel his efforts more "constructively", shall we say, but I wouldn't want him removing it from his game completely. Good energy and covering ground are plus points when used properly. Chasing everything at the cost of positioning and leaving team mates exposed are not plus points. He's a good player but lately I'm not sure what he's meant to be doing, he doesn't particularly link up play enough for a number 10 either. He's not a number 10, we genuinely have better options. He's not a DM as he lacks discipline for the role. Only position I can see him playing is along side a DM and drill in a bit of positional sense into him. As many have said he simply wasn't needed and now we are shoehorning him in.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 11:37:09 GMT
Absolutely nothing to criticise here - players come in and out of form
Joe Has been absolutely superb for us - a real asset - long may it continue !
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 12:00:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 12:00:03 GMT
He's not a number 10 and never will be. He would be much better playing in a midfield 3 but then we'd never see Bojan.
|
|
|
Post by roostershair on Jan 22, 2017 12:13:40 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! I'm not a fan at all but that is a hysterical response if ever there was one. Finding his best position and how he can best benefit the starting 11 is surely something Hughes could do with finding out. The fact that a very decent first 20 minutes turned into a creditable backs to the wall operation was everything to do with how poor both him and crouch were. Both worked their socks off but both were pretty useless when it came to actually doing positive things in possession of a football. No, not at all. Just pissed off that the guy runs his balls off and it still isn't good enough in the eyes of some.
|
|
|
Post by roostershair on Jan 22, 2017 12:15:37 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! Good contribution. Another one who really doesn't understand the game. Re-arrange the following into a well known phrase or saying. Arse my kiss fucking.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 12:20:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 12:20:58 GMT
I'm not a fan at all but that is a hysterical response if ever there was one. Finding his best position and how he can best benefit the starting 11 is surely something Hughes could do with finding out. The fact that a very decent first 20 minutes turned into a creditable backs to the wall operation was everything to do with how poor both him and crouch were. Both worked their socks off but both were pretty useless when it came to actually doing positive things in possession of a football. No, not at all. Just pissed off that the guy runs his balls off and it still isn't good enough in the eyes of some. I'd rather he did shit with the ball than run his balls off. He's playing as an attacking midfielder I don't really want him running his balls off.
|
|
|
Post by Jimm on Jan 22, 2017 12:21:24 GMT
He's a good footballer, but the way we play, we should set up with two defensive midfielders and one attacking/creative midfielder. Unfortunately, he isn't either of those. Not trying to be awkward but what role does he fill then ? I thought they pressed us very hard yesterday and I think we are slightly under cooking how well we did to stem a lot of that. Yes we rode our luck with there woeful shooting and some good saves from Grant however as a team to a man everyone put in a shift, which is surely what we were looking for yesterday. I dunno it seems a bit wrong to single out players after what is after all a good point yesterday. I'm not trying to single him out. I'm just saying he isn't a defensive midfielder nor is he a number 10. He's a box to box player and when we set up with 3 in midfield, it should be with 2 defensive mids and 1 creative/attacking mid. He's a good footballer and gives his all but he doesn't suit us in a starting 11.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 12:22:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 12:22:36 GMT
Not trying to be awkward but what role does he fill then ? I thought they pressed us very hard yesterday and I think we are slightly under cooking how well we did to stem a lot of that. Yes we rode our luck with there woeful shooting and some good saves from Grant however as a team to a man everyone put in a shift, which is surely what we were looking for yesterday. I dunno it seems a bit wrong to single out players after what is after all a good point yesterday. I'm not trying to single him out. I'm just saying he isn't a defensive midfielder nor is he a number 10. He's a box to box player and when we set up with 3 in midfield, it should be with 2 defensive mids and 1 creative/attacking mid. He's a good footballer and gives his all but he doesn't suit us in a starting 11. Does his lack of discipline worry you for that role though? He just doesn't keep the shape.
|
|
|
Post by Jimm on Jan 22, 2017 12:25:29 GMT
I'm not trying to single him out. I'm just saying he isn't a defensive midfielder nor is he a number 10. He's a box to box player and when we set up with 3 in midfield, it should be with 2 defensive mids and 1 creative/attacking mid. He's a good footballer and gives his all but he doesn't suit us in a starting 11. Does his lack of discipline worry you for that role though? He just doesn't keep the shape. Which role? His and Charlie's lack of discipline worry me.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 12:28:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 12:28:07 GMT
Does his lack of discipline worry you for that role though? He just doesn't keep the shape. Which role? His and Charlie's lack of discipline worry me. Box to box. You still need a modicum of discipline there and he just hasn't showed any.
|
|
|
Post by roostershair on Jan 22, 2017 12:28:14 GMT
Yes let's fuck him off! Waste of money and Hughes out! Some fucking idiots on here! Eh? Why would we do that? Think your tampon has just fell out pal.... Just read the posts again. I was actually sticking up for Joe. I'm just fed up that people seem to pick on different players every week. Oh and I like Hughes. Keep up please
|
|
|
Post by Jimm on Jan 22, 2017 12:32:58 GMT
Which role? His and Charlie's lack of discipline worry me. Box to box. You still need a modicum of discipline there and he just hasn't showed any. Yeah I agree. And if we had 2 defensive midfielders or when Cameron is fit, I wouldn't play him. He doesn't have a specific role, just chase the ball
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 12:40:23 GMT
Box to box. You still need a modicum of discipline there and he just hasn't showed any. Yeah I agree. And if we had 2 defensive midfielders or when Cameron is fit, I wouldn't play him. He doesn't have a specific role, just chase the ball He's a rich mans Dean Whitehead. Which will mean Stoke fans will love him.
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Jan 22, 2017 12:44:36 GMT
Which role? His and Charlie's lack of discipline worry me. Box to box. You still need a modicum of discipline there and he just hasn't showed any. Do you reckon this is down to instructions from Hughes or a lack of positional discipline from Allen himself? It seems to me at the moment as if he's the one player in the team with the "free role" which shouldn't be happening, that role should fall on one of Bojan, Shaqiri, Arnautovic or Berahino, I don't want my central midfielder winning the ball at RB then showing up on the left wing. Looks like a case of the Imbula's again here, Allen is a good player, but there's seemingly no plan on what to do with him.
|
|
|
Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2017 12:47:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 22, 2017 12:47:31 GMT
Box to box. You still need a modicum of discipline there and he just hasn't showed any. Do you reckon this is down to instructions from Hughes or a lack of positional discipline from Allen himself? It seems to me at the moment as if he's the one player in the team with the "free role" which shouldn't be happening, that role should fall on one of Bojan, Shaqiri, Arnautovic or Berahino, I don't want my central midfielder winning the ball at RB then showing up on the left wing. Looks like a case of the Imbula's again here, Allen is a good player, but there's seemingly no plan on what to do with him. I honestly don't know. I can see why you'd allow him to do that when he's the furthest forward but he's played like that when he's been the box to boxer too. And if Hughes hasn't told him to be more disciplined when he's playing that role then it's just sheer madness. And just utterly baffling management. I'd like to think Hughes wasn't that daft.....
|
|
|
Post by sanmarinostokie on Jan 22, 2017 12:47:35 GMT
He is not a good enough finisher to play number 10 or won't play the incisive passes required. He is not disciplined or defensive enough to play defensive midfield so playing him there would leave us exposed. Been our best player this season, I am not saying he hasn't but he has no role in the team. His arrival caused more problems than it solved. Perhaps play him in a 433 alongside imbula and whelan. Whelan doing what he does best, joe keeping the ball moving and imbula driving from deep starting attacks.
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 22, 2017 12:55:59 GMT
He is not a good enough finisher to play number 10 or won't play the incisive passes required. He is not disciplined or defensive enough to play defensive midfield so playing him there would leave us exposed. Been our best player this season, I am not saying he hasn't but he has no role in the team. His arrival caused more problems than it solved. Perhaps play him in a 433 alongside imbula and whelan. Whelan doing what he does best, joe keeping the ball moving and imbula driving from deep starting attacks. In modern terms, he is an 8 not a 6 or 10 but we are really playing with a mixed midfield, no number 10 and Charlie neither sitting or pushing forward. For me Cameron is now better than Whelan as he is bigger and quicker, neither do anything positive with the ball. Unless Imbula breaks through, Afellay is the best number 8 we have, able to run forward with the ball, runs back and can pass. Then the question is who plays the third role? If we think Cameron and Afellay are enough defensively against the weaker teams, then it should be Shaqiri or Bojan, I would go for Shaq on current form and spend the rest of the season giving Sobhi and N'Goy match time sharing a wide posiiton. Against the top teams I would play Allen and not have a number 10. Ideally we will sign a better CDM and work on bringing Imbula through
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 22, 2017 13:03:47 GMT
It is absolutely essential that we bring in a top quality CDM, until we do this, we will just continue to go round in circles with our misfiring midfield, it's a bit like trying to bake a cake without all the required ingredients and rather than going out and buying them, you just keep changing the order of the recipe around.
|
|
|
Post by sanmarinostokie on Jan 22, 2017 13:20:48 GMT
He is not a good enough finisher to play number 10 or won't play the incisive passes required. He is not disciplined or defensive enough to play defensive midfield so playing him there would leave us exposed. Been our best player this season, I am not saying he hasn't but he has no role in the team. His arrival caused more problems than it solved. Perhaps play him in a 433 alongside imbula and whelan. Whelan doing what he does best, joe keeping the ball moving and imbula driving from deep starting attacks. In modern terms, he is an 8 not a 6 or 10 but we are really playing with a mixed midfield, no number 10 and Charlie neither sitting or pushing forward. For me Cameron is now better than Whelan as he is bigger and quicker, neither do anything positive with the ball. Unless Imbula breaks through, Afellay is the best number 8 we have, able to run forward with the ball, runs back and can pass. Then the question is who plays the third role? If we think Cameron and Afellay are enough defensively against the weaker teams, then it should be Shaqiri or Bojan, I would go for Shaq on current form and spend the rest of the season giving Sobhi and N'Goy match time sharing a wide posiiton. Against the top teams I would play Allen and not have a number 10. Ideally we will sign a better CDM and work on bringing Imbula through I think Muniesa could be the answer at defensive midfield. Mobile enough to cover the more adventurous players, can defend, can pass, not bad positioning. Would have liked schneiderlin but he went to everton so would try muniesa there between now and the end of the season to see if that offers us the solution without the need to spend, if it doesn't, buy a top class cdm in the summer. I am unsure about afellay personally. He just keeps the ball moving and there were a couple of times yesterday he could have released n'goy but didn't. Think if we give imbula more licence to roam then that leaves us well stocked with afellay as backup, should be no more than a squad player for me. Be more inclined to see shaqiri out wide with both him and arnautovic switching sides except against the smaller teams would play him at number 10 with either sobhi or n'goy as you said. Against the bigger teams I think we go with 2 8's essentially with imbula and afellay giving a more defensive minded core to the team. All in all a major clearout is required in the summer, not just in midfield.
|
|
|
Post by baystokie on Jan 22, 2017 13:30:41 GMT
Of course, none of the tactical geniuses on this forum will ever have their critiques and theories tested in the real world. Pity we can't give them Hughes job for a season and see where we finish. Now THAT would be interesting and illuminating.
|
|