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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2016 10:48:27 GMT
Has he ever been a nailed on starter? No. Has he ever cemented his place in one position? No. Can he provide cover for injuries suspensions etc. Oooh, yes that must be it... He's started 106 league games. Doesn't matter what Excuses you try to bring up 106 starts from a possible 163 games is a regular starter. You know as well as I do that with the very odd exception, Cameron has only ever been in the team to plug a gap. My point remins the same, no way would he walk straight into any other Prem or top 5 Champ starting 11. This was backing up my main point in the first place - if we cannot cope with an injury to Geoff Cameron then we may as get out the guide to Championship footy now... P.S. I like Geoff, useful squad players like him are rare.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2016 10:49:51 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... Ask Ryan Shawcross who he would want playing just in front of him. He'll tell you Whelan 100% Errr, ok - I take it with you being his bezzy you can put me in touch with him?
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Post by alster on Nov 17, 2016 10:52:57 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... Ask Ryan Shawcross who he would want playing just in front of him. He'll tell you Whelan 100% Fortunately it professional football we're talking about not Shawcross picking his mates in his team on the playground.
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Post by stantheman on Nov 17, 2016 11:28:56 GMT
Ask Ryan Shawcross who he would want playing just in front of him. He'll tell you Whelan 100% Fortunately it professional football we're talking about not Shawcross picking his mates in his team on the playground. Oh, so the fact that we have been relatively successful over the last 9 years with that pair at the centre of our team is irrelevant. Shawcross doesn't pick the team, mates or not, Hughes does and if Whelan was fit he'd be one if the first names on the team sheet
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Post by alster on Nov 17, 2016 12:07:25 GMT
Fortunately it professional football we're talking about not Shawcross picking his mates in his team on the playground. Oh, so the fact that we have been relatively successful over the last 9 years with that pair at the centre of our team is irrelevant. Shawcross doesn't pick the team, mates or not, Hughes does and if Whelan was fit he'd be one if the first names on the team sheet At least we agree its got fuck all to do with Ryan who plays CDM. Hughes does keep picking Whelan, oh well everybody has blind spots. Doesn't make him completely useless just flawed.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 17, 2016 19:59:55 GMT
The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron. Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Yes. Do you? You stated earlier that Whelan would struggle to get into a top Championship side; tell me which players from Brighton, Huddersfield, Reading, Norwich or Leeds you think we should try to swap them for? One player from each club that would get into our team? To make it easier I'll let you have Newcastle too. If it is true that we have carried two poor players, as regular members of our team, in one of most successful ever periods, the other members of our team must be world beaters.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 13:11:13 GMT
Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Yes. Do you? You stated earlier that Whelan would struggle to get into a top Championship side; tell me which players from Brighton, Huddersfield, Reading, Norwich or Leeds you think we should try to swap them for? One player from each club that would get into our team? To make it easier I'll let you have Newcastle too. If it is true that we have carried two poor players, as regular members of our team, in one of most successful ever periods, the other members of our team must be world beaters. The last sentence doesn't make any sense, all teams of our peer group (ie the 10 below the top 6) carry players in some positions who are not really Premier League standard players and few if any have any world beaters at all. I'll leave the challenge above to pez, I've never mentioned the Championship mainly because I can't remember the last time I watched a Championship game. If you judge them on their attributes you'd either be arguing for the sake of it or fooling yourself that they have the attributes that you'd normally expect a Premier league midfielder to have in his skill set. Cameron has the physical attributes but then when you add a football things don't look so great. Whelan has hardly any attributes that mark him out as a Premier league footballer at all, once you move away from commitment and positional discipline you're left scratching your head as to how he ever got there.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 18, 2016 13:45:54 GMT
Yes. Do you? You stated earlier that Whelan would struggle to get into a top Championship side; tell me which players from Brighton, Huddersfield, Reading, Norwich or Leeds you think we should try to swap them for? One player from each club that would get into our team? To make it easier I'll let you have Newcastle too. If it is true that we have carried two poor players, as regular members of our team, in one of most successful ever periods, the other members of our team must be world beaters. The last sentence doesn't make any sense, all teams of our peer group (ie the 10 below the top 6) carry players in some positions who are not really Premier League standard players and few if any have any world beaters at all. I'll leave the challenge above to pez, I've never mentioned the Championship mainly because I can't remember the last time I watched a Championship game. If you judge them on their attributes you'd either be arguing for the sake of it or fooling yourself that they have the attributes that you'd normally expect a Premier league midfielder to have in his skill set. Cameron has the physical attributes but then when you add a football things don't look so great. Whelan has hardly any attributes that mark him out as a Premier league footballer at all, once you move away from commitment and positional discipline you're left scratching your head as to how he ever got there. Royland's last sentence makes perfect sense to me. In contrast, you continue to type a fair amount of nonsense. If players play in the Premier League, surely they are Premier League standard players by definition. How you can criticise somebody else's post for not making sense, then attempt to construct an argument that says "all players below the top 6 carry some players who are not Premier league standard" when they play err, in the Premier League is hilarious. Your argument does't make any sense, and is by any definition, incorrect. Also, if you can't see what attributes Glenn Whelan has when he's been a Premier League regular for the last 8 seasons, you don't appear to know much about football. Incorrect, disrespectful and rude. I'd love to see you say that to Glenn man to man. You ain't no Stoke City supporter in my book.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 13:57:53 GMT
The last sentence doesn't make any sense, all teams of our peer group (ie the 10 below the top 6) carry players in some positions who are not really Premier League standard players and few if any have any world beaters at all. I'll leave the challenge above to pez, I've never mentioned the Championship mainly because I can't remember the last time I watched a Championship game. If you judge them on their attributes you'd either be arguing for the sake of it or fooling yourself that they have the attributes that you'd normally expect a Premier league midfielder to have in his skill set. Cameron has the physical attributes but then when you add a football things don't look so great. Whelan has hardly any attributes that mark him out as a Premier league footballer at all, once you move away from commitment and positional discipline you're left scratching your head as to how he ever got there. Royland's last sentence makes perfect sense to me. In contrast, you continue to type a fair amount of nonsense. If players play in the Premier League, surely they are Premier League standard players by definition. How you can criticise somebody else's post for not making sense, then attempt to construct an argument that says "all players below the top 6 carry some players who are not Premier league standard" when they play err, in the Premier League is hilarious. Your argument does't make any sense, and is by any definition, incorrect. Also, if you can't see what attributes Glenn Whelan has when he's been a Premier League regular for the last 8 seasons, you don't appear to know much about football. Incorrect, disrespectful and rude. I'd love to see you say that to Glenn man to man. You ain't no Stoke City supporter in my book. Good job your book don't count for too much then else I'd be worried. What a crock of shite, playing in a Premier League team automatically makes you a Premier League standard player, utter nonsense. I'd be perfectly happy to tell Glenn to his face I don't think he has the attributes of a Premier League midfielder. Unless he's a raving lunatic he'd probably be not overly fussed what I think.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 18, 2016 14:20:35 GMT
Royland's last sentence makes perfect sense to me. In contrast, you continue to type a fair amount of nonsense. If players play in the Premier League, surely they are Premier League standard players by definition. How you can criticise somebody else's post for not making sense, then attempt to construct an argument that says "all players below the top 6 carry some players who are not Premier league standard" when they play err, in the Premier League is hilarious. Your argument does't make any sense, and is by any definition, incorrect. Also, if you can't see what attributes Glenn Whelan has when he's been a Premier League regular for the last 8 seasons, you don't appear to know much about football. Incorrect, disrespectful and rude. I'd love to see you say that to Glenn man to man. You ain't no Stoke City supporter in my book. Good job your book don't count for too much then else I'd be worried. What a crock of shite, playing in a Premier League team automatically makes you a Premier League standard player, utter nonsense. I'd be perfectly happy to tell Glenn to his face I don't think he has the attributes of a Premier League midfielder. Unless he's a raving lunatic he'd probably be not overly fussed what I think. Thank you for giving me a piece of your mind when you've obviously got so little to spare. Are you intending to continue to peddle the ridiculous argument that playing in the Premier League doesn't make you a Premier League standard player? You clearly understand even less about the English language than you do about football. I actually agree with you on one thing however. Glenn Whelan wouldn't care what you think - why would he give any credence or respect to a mouthy, self opinionated arsehole. He's a bit fiery though Glenn - you say that to his face and you might end up with more than just egg on your face. I apologise now for even bothering to get drawn into your stupid, boring and ignorant opinions. I won't make the same mistake again. One request though - do us all a favour and give it a rest.
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Post by butlerstbob on Nov 18, 2016 14:25:23 GMT
Royland's last sentence makes perfect sense to me. In contrast, you continue to type a fair amount of nonsense. If players play in the Premier League, surely they are Premier League standard players by definition. How you can criticise somebody else's post for not making sense, then attempt to construct an argument that says "all players below the top 6 carry some players who are not Premier league standard" when they play err, in the Premier League is hilarious. Your argument does't make any sense, and is by any definition, incorrect. Also, if you can't see what attributes Glenn Whelan has when he's been a Premier League regular for the last 8 seasons, you don't appear to know much about football. Incorrect, disrespectful and rude. I'd love to see you say that to Glenn man to man. You ain't no Stoke City supporter in my book. Good job your book don't count for too much then else I'd be worried. What a crock of shite, playing in a Premier League team automatically makes you a Premier League standard player, utter nonsense. I'd be perfectly happy to tell Glenn to his face I don't think he has the attribut'attributeattributes of a Premier League midfielder. Unless he's a raving lunatic he'd probably be not overly fussed what I think. So playing in the premier league for over 217 games and what 5-6-7 seasons doesn't make you a premier league player? Well if that doesn't then what the fuck does?? Please explain!l
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 14:52:29 GMT
Good job your book don't count for too much then else I'd be worried. What a crock of shite, playing in a Premier League team automatically makes you a Premier League standard player, utter nonsense. I'd be perfectly happy to tell Glenn to his face I don't think he has the attribut'attributeattributes of a Premier League midfielder. Unless he's a raving lunatic he'd probably be not overly fussed what I think. So playing in the premier league for over 217 games and what 5-6-7 seasons doesn't make you a premier league player? Well if that doesn't then what the fuck does?? Please explain!l What's the point you obviously think just being there makes you of that standard I differ. I've seen many abysmal footballers appear in the Premier League for many teams and more than 1 or 2 for us.
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Post by Scrotnig on Nov 18, 2016 14:52:52 GMT
Well, this has all got a bit heated.
Sturridge had better do the decent thing and sign for us now, just to make all these arguments worthwhile.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 14:55:20 GMT
Well, this has all got a bit heated. Sturridge had better do the decent thing and sign for us now, just to make all these arguments worthwhile. I think you'll find okeydokeystokie2 is the only person getting heated. Apparently Glenn Whelan's going to beat me up because I think he's a bit shit
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Post by MadridStokie on Nov 18, 2016 14:57:15 GMT
So, after all the heated debate above (which seems to have nothing to do with Shaq and Whelan injury update ?!) ... what is the update on their injuries ?
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Post by nutterpotter on Nov 18, 2016 15:03:38 GMT
So, after all the heated debate above (which seems to have nothing to do with Shaq and Whelan injury update ?!) ... what is the update on their injuries ? Whelan is a doubt. Probably won't make it. Shaq is fine.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 15:05:25 GMT
So, after all the heated debate above (which seems to have nothing to do with Shaq and Whelan injury update ?!) ... what is the update on their injuries ? Whelan is a doubt. Probably won't make it. Shaq is fine. Thank fuck for that I can come out from under my seat now.
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Post by butlerstbob on Nov 18, 2016 15:05:42 GMT
So playing in the premier league for over 217 games and what 5-6-7 seasons doesn't make you a premier league player? Well if that doesn't then what the fuck does?? Please explain!l What's the point you obviously think just being there makes you of that standard I differ. I've seen many abysmal footballers appear in the Premier League for many teams and more than 1 or 2 for us. Just answer the question, what makes a premier footballer?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 18, 2016 15:06:07 GMT
What's the point you obviously think just being there makes you of that standard I differ. I've seen many abysmal footballers appear in the Premier League for many teams and more than 1 or 2 for us. Just out of interest, which Stoke players (If any) do you think are 'Premier League players'?
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Post by kustokie on Nov 18, 2016 15:27:39 GMT
Yes. Do you? You stated earlier that Whelan would struggle to get into a top Championship side; tell me which players from Brighton, Huddersfield, Reading, Norwich or Leeds you think we should try to swap them for? One player from each club that would get into our team? To make it easier I'll let you have Newcastle too. If it is true that we have carried two poor players, as regular members of our team, in one of most successful ever periods, the other members of our team must be world beaters. The last sentence doesn't make any sense, all teams of our peer group (ie the 10 below the top 6) carry players in some positions who are not really Premier League standard players and few if any have any world beaters at all. I'll leave the challenge above to pez, I've never mentioned the Championship mainly because I can't remember the last time I watched a Championship game. If you judge them on their attributes you'd either be arguing for the sake of it or fooling yourself that they have the attributes that you'd normally expect a Premier league midfielder to have in his skill set. Cameron has the physical attributes but then when you add a football things don't look so great. Whelan has hardly any attributes that mark him out as a Premier league footballer at all, once you move away from commitment and positional discipline you're left scratching your head as to how he ever got there. Can you define "premier league standard"? I know I can't.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 18, 2016 15:31:03 GMT
Well, this has all got a bit heated. Sturridge had better do the decent thing and sign for us now, just to make all these arguments worthwhile. I think you'll find okeydokeystokie2 is the only person getting heated. Apparently Glenn Whelan's going to beat me up because I think he's a bit shit Just to set the record straight, I'm not "heated". I'm not even angry - just simply incredulous at some of the stuff you come out with. Just don't get the need for "supporters" to needlessly and incorrectly slag off one of our players who has been with us since, when January 2008? You don't need any laughing face emojis my friend. Everybody is laughing at you from the sheer drivel you type. Your "Premier League players not being Premier League standard" is the greatest challenge to both syntax and logic I have ever read. Any shred of credibility you had has completely disappeared. You have just proved that whatever opinions you spout are completely worthless.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 15:35:27 GMT
What's the point you obviously think just being there makes you of that standard I differ. I've seen many abysmal footballers appear in the Premier League for many teams and more than 1 or 2 for us. Just out of interest, which Stoke players (If any) do you think are 'Premier League players'? I would judge a Premier league standard player as one who would regularly get into other Premier League teams. I don't think Whelan would, I don't think Sidibe ever would have nor Shotton. Touch and go with Walters certainly not now. In all honesty I don't think Diouf is a Premier League standard footballer thats not to say I wouldn't sometimes pick him, just that his level of ability doesn't really belong in the Premier League. There are quite a few others we've had who've made odd appearances who just don't belong at this level.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 15:39:03 GMT
I think you'll find okeydokeystokie2 is the only person getting heated. Apparently Glenn Whelan's going to beat me up because I think he's a bit shit Just to set the record straight, I'm not "heated". I'm not even angry - just simply incredulous at some of the stuff you come out with. Just don't get the need for "supporters" to needlessly and incorrectly slag off one of our players who has been with us since, when January 2008? You don't need any laughing face emojis my friend. Everybody is laughing at you from the sheer drivel you type. Your "Premier League players not being Premier League standard" is the greatest challenge to both syntax and logic I have ever read. Any shred of credibility you had has completely disappeared. You have just proved that whatever opinions you spout are completely worthless. Not credible and worthless to you because you don't share them or like them but you know full well if you read the board regularly that there are plenty of people who think the same.
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Post by raythesailor on Nov 18, 2016 17:05:42 GMT
Just come into this late and got bored half way down the page but I must say that you can not slag off Glen Whelan for the contributions that he has made over the last several years.
He has been one of our most consistent players for some time. I agree that he is getting older and may not be the player he was two or three seasons ago, but he is still a VERY VALUABLE ASSET.
Many teams have flair so called superstars but they would be nobody's without the Mr Steadies such as Whelan to support them.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 17:28:54 GMT
Just come into this late and got bored half way down the page but I must say that you can not slag off Glen Whelan for the contributions that he has made over the last several years. He has been one of our most consistent players for some time. I agree that he is getting older and may not be the player he was two or three seasons ago, but he is still a VERY VALUABLE ASSET. Many teams have flair so called superstars but they would be nobody's without the Mr Steadies such as Whelan to support them. Nobody is slagging him off he's been a good servant and good value for the club. Some people just can't accept the observation that he has no stand out attributes that you'd associate with a Premier League midfielder. Of course you can't have a team full of flair players but your steady Eddie's as you call them have normally got a standout attribute be it ball winning, mobility, pace, physical presence, an eye for a pass, chip in with the odd goal, Whelan doesn't seem to have any other than commitment and positional discipline. He isn't actually very good at anything. I'm not sure how you've managed to decide in capitals that he's a very valuable asset, he's worth nothing in transfer value. It is a good job we've got him though as his position has been so neglected by the people who assemble our squad.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Nov 18, 2016 17:43:26 GMT
Just come into this late and got bored half way down the page but I must say that you can not slag off Glen Whelan for the contributions that he has made over the last several years. He has been one of our most consistent players for some time. I agree that he is getting older and may not be the player he was two or three seasons ago, but he is still a VERY VALUABLE ASSET. Many teams have flair so called superstars but they would be nobody's without the Mr Steadies such as Whelan to support them. Nobody is slagging him off he's been a good servant and good value for the club. Some people just can't accept the observation that he has no stand out attributes that you'd associate with a Premier League midfielder. Of course you can't have a team full of flair players but your steady Eddie's as you call them have normally got a standout attribute be it ball winning, mobility, pace, physical presence, an eye for a pass, chip in with the odd goal, Whelan doesn't seem to have any other than commitment and positional discipline. He isn't actually very good at anything. I'm not sure how you've managed to decide in capitals that he's a very valuable asset, he's worth nothing in transfer value. It is a good job we've got him though as his position has been so neglected by the people who assemble our squad. So with him not being up to premier league standard you'd have thought that he would have been replaced in the team. Surely our 2 managers, their assistants, our director of football, our CEO, our chairman would have highlighted and done something about this ??? Oh wait. They understand football a hell of a lot better than you and have some common bloody sense and see that Whelan by all accounts is a premier league footballer and regular international footballer.
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Post by raythesailor on Nov 18, 2016 17:44:28 GMT
Just come into this late and got bored half way down the page but I must say that you can not slag off Glen Whelan for the contributions that he has made over the last several years. He has been one of our most consistent players for some time. I agree that he is getting older and may not be the player he was two or three seasons ago, but he is still a VERY VALUABLE ASSET. Many teams have flair so called superstars but they would be nobody's without the Mr Steadies such as Whelan to support them. Nobody is slagging him off he's been a good servant and good value for the club. Some people just can't accept the observation that he has no stand out attributes that you'd associate with a Premier League midfielder. Of course you can't have a team full of flair players but your steady Eddie's as you call them have normally got a standout attribute be it ball winning, mobility, pace, physical presence, an eye for a pass, chip in with the odd goal, Whelan doesn't seem to have any other than commitment and positional discipline. He isn't actually very good at anything. I'm not sure how you've managed to decide in capitals that he's a very valuable asset, he's worth nothing in transfer value. It is a good job we've got him though as his position has been so neglected by the people who assemble our squad. Sorry can not agree. We must have been watching different games or from different angles. Signing off don't want to get involved. Looking foreword to tomorrow.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 17:48:04 GMT
Nobody is slagging him off he's been a good servant and good value for the club. Some people just can't accept the observation that he has no stand out attributes that you'd associate with a Premier League midfielder. Of course you can't have a team full of flair players but your steady Eddie's as you call them have normally got a standout attribute be it ball winning, mobility, pace, physical presence, an eye for a pass, chip in with the odd goal, Whelan doesn't seem to have any other than commitment and positional discipline. He isn't actually very good at anything. I'm not sure how you've managed to decide in capitals that he's a very valuable asset, he's worth nothing in transfer value. It is a good job we've got him though as his position has been so neglected by the people who assemble our squad. Sorry can not agree. We must have been watching different games or from different angles. Signing off don't want to get involved. Looking foreword to tomorrow. Nothing to get involved in I'm not one of those people who can't accept that fans have very different opinions about almost everything.
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Post by alster on Nov 18, 2016 17:51:17 GMT
Nobody is slagging him off he's been a good servant and good value for the club. Some people just can't accept the observation that he has no stand out attributes that you'd associate with a Premier League midfielder. Of course you can't have a team full of flair players but your steady Eddie's as you call them have normally got a standout attribute be it ball winning, mobility, pace, physical presence, an eye for a pass, chip in with the odd goal, Whelan doesn't seem to have any other than commitment and positional discipline. He isn't actually very good at anything. I'm not sure how you've managed to decide in capitals that he's a very valuable asset, he's worth nothing in transfer value. It is a good job we've got him though as his position has been so neglected by the people who assemble our squad. So with him not being up to premier league standard you'd have thought that he would have been replaced in the team. Surely our 2 managers, their assistants, our director of football, our CEO, our chairman would have highlighted and done something about this ??? Oh wait. They understand football a hell of a lot better than you and have some common bloody sense and see that Whelan by all accounts is a premier league footballer and regular international footballer. Their not replacing him being attributed to common sense is one of the best jokes I've seen but not quite as good as Foxysgloves account of Glenn's attributes that was an absolute classic.
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Post by butlerstbob on Nov 18, 2016 17:54:03 GMT
Sorry can not agree. We must have been watching different games or from different angles. Signing off don't want to get involved. Looking foreword to tomorrow. Nothing to get involved in I'm not one of those people who can't accept that fans have very different opinions rabout almost everything. what bollocks, you have spent 4 pages telling us he is a championship player and has nothing to offer! Not once have you said its your opinion you have just shot people down instead!
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