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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 14:52:30 GMT
Yeah it takes a lot of working out you're still not telling me whats unique about our team that they can play in deep lying roles elsewhere even in the same league but not for us. I'm choosing to watch Andy Murray twat a Tennis ball for a couple of hours over this "discussion" I'm afraid. All I can say is, I only care how they perform in a Stoke shirt. If they aren't cutting it then they deserve to be on the bench. I don't give a flying fook where they were playing before they came to Stoke. If you're referring to Joe Allen (you refuse to name names for some bizzare reason) then his high pressing style is better suited to the number 10 role than in a deep lying midfield position due to his natural inclination to press the opposition. Watch his performance at Crystal Palace, he was leaving us exposed in that position. (Btw, Bojan played in that game as well and is a line up heavily touted to play this Saturday) Its not a refusal to name names its just that its something that seems to happen with Stoke we take players who've played in deep lying midfield roles all their careers and all of a sudden they're a No10 or an attacking midfielder Allen, Adam, Imbula all played as deep lying midfielders before turning up at Stoke. My question is, is it that we somehow don't communicate to the player what we need from them or do they suddenly decide they're going to go out and do whatever the hell they want to as soon as we sign them. Why is someone from the management team not putting them right on the pitch during the course of a game. I observed exactly the same thing with Joselu he had the potential but never seemed to grasp or have drummed into him where he was going wrong ie wandering all over the place and not getting stuck into battling Centre Halves. So please explain are they getting instructed and if they are and aren't doing it why is somebody not giving them both barrels from the sidelines.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 16, 2016 14:55:25 GMT
No-one is saying that they have not done a good job recently, but Alster is right - if we cannot manage without players like Whelan and Cameron That part is correct who lets face it would struggle to get into a top Championship side, never mind Premier League! - That part is Bollocks. Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective...
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Post by pez75 on Nov 16, 2016 15:07:53 GMT
Right so he's managed to play at that level for a good many years so what are his attributes that you'd associate with a top flight footballer. You've told me what teams he's played in thanks I did already know but you're using the Mama argument and when people using that argument are actually put to task describing the players attributes as a footballer they're normally pretty flummoxed. He's a good ball winner. He makes the right call when in possession time and time again. Positionally he's virtually flawless. He's disciplined and provides a consistent presence in the midfield. He has outstanding stamina and is capable of putting in a 90 minute shift on a weekly basis. Again, perpetuating the myth that GW is the perfect player! Why on earth have barca not come in for him, they love a holding mid? 3 out of 5 wrong, try harder.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 15:23:53 GMT
Yeah, anyway. Any news on his injury?
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 15:39:07 GMT
He's a good ball winner. He makes the right call when in possession time and time again. Positionally he's virtually flawless. He's disciplined and provides a consistent presence in the midfield. He has outstanding stamina and is capable of putting in a 90 minute shift on a weekly basis. Again, perpetuating the myth that GW is the perfect player! Why on earth have barca not come in for him, they love a holding mid? 3 out of 5 wrong, try harder. That generous I might have gone for 4.
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Post by onepara on Nov 16, 2016 15:47:05 GMT
Whelan back in Jan. Shaq suspected cruciate. Possibly out for the season. Does anyone take any notice of this idiot? He has a strange sense of humour.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 16, 2016 15:48:04 GMT
If it's needs must on Saturday, then Hughes has to tell Allen to sit and not go over the halfway line (not literally, of course)! Why shouldn't a player of his experience and talent be able to do that? I assume we then have Adam in front and probably Bojan back at number 10, with maybe Imbula replacing Charlie at some stage.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 16, 2016 15:48:46 GMT
Whelan back in Jan. Shaq suspected cruciate. Possibly out for the season. Does anyone take any notice of this idiot? He has a strange sense of humour. He craves the attention perhaps?
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Post by WhyDelilah on Nov 16, 2016 17:23:32 GMT
Whelan back in Jan. Shaq suspected cruciate. Possibly out for the season. Does anyone take any notice of this idiot? He has a strange sense of humour. I assume you take notice, as you've taken the time to reply. Much love 😘
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Nov 16, 2016 17:26:20 GMT
Sorry to jump in here. Just so I've got this right; physicality, mindset, vision and positional sense are all redundant features so long as a player is "more talented" (as in technical skill I imagine), and is "kept on top of" by the management tactically? Under this theory, Lionel Messi would make a better holding/defensive midfielder than Arturo Vidal? Coutinho better there than Kante? Bojan than Cameron? Why are you comparing players who are forwards or attacking midfielders with players for deep lying midfield roles. We have at our club a selection of players who have played deep lying midfield roles both internationally and at other clubs yet when they come to our club all of a sudden they're attacking midfielders and not suitable for deep lying roles which is complete hogwash. You mean Joe Allen and Charlie Adam then? I was just comparing "more talented" players with those that usually hold the midfield, because in a nutshell, that's what you said. (using further examples outside of this club)
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 16, 2016 17:38:18 GMT
He's a good ball winner. He makes the right call when in possession time and time again. Positionally he's virtually flawless. He's disciplined and provides a consistent presence in the midfield. He has outstanding stamina and is capable of putting in a 90 minute shift on a weekly basis. Again, perpetuating the myth that GW is the perfect player! Why on earth have barca not come in for him, they love a holding mid? 3 out of 5 wrong, try harder. Where did I say he was perfect?
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 17:41:22 GMT
Why are you comparing players who are forwards or attacking midfielders with players for deep lying midfield roles. We have at our club a selection of players who have played deep lying midfield roles both internationally and at other clubs yet when they come to our club all of a sudden they're attacking midfielders and not suitable for deep lying roles which is complete hogwash. You mean Joe Allen and Charlie Adam then? I was just comparing "more talented" players with those that usually hold the midfield, because in a nutshell, that's what you said. (using further examples outside of this club) our deep lying midfield positions just seem unnaturally hard to fill. Its not a popular theory with some but I think that the myth that is Glen Whelan and our over reliance and failure to upgrade him is more the problem than the other players we've got to fill those berths.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 17:43:11 GMT
Again, perpetuating the myth that GW is the perfect player! Why on earth have barca not come in for him, they love a holding mid? 3 out of 5 wrong, try harder. Where did I say he was perfect? In your description of his attributes, if they were even close to being accurate he'd be a hell of a player.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 17:45:05 GMT
Whelan back in Jan. Shaq suspected cruciate. Possibly out for the season. Does anyone take any notice of this idiot? He has a strange sense of humour. Don't upset him, he will delete his account again.
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Post by oslostokie1 on Nov 16, 2016 17:59:14 GMT
Whelan back in Jan. Shaq suspected cruciate. Possibly out for the season. Does anyone take any notice of this idiot? He has a strange sense of humour. He makes Claudia Winkleman look like Peter Kay
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 16, 2016 18:16:43 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron.
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 16, 2016 18:45:25 GMT
Where did I say he was perfect? In your description of his attributes, if they were even close to being accurate he'd be a hell of a player. What, like a player who comfortably keeps an 18 million pound man on the bench? The kind of player who is a virtual ever-present in a decent mid table PL side? That kind of player?
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 18:49:48 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron. I doubt they get a regular start for any of the clubs listed.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 16, 2016 19:05:32 GMT
The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron. I doubt they get a regular start for any of the clubs listed. So there are at least two players at every club in the Championship who you would prefer to see at Stoke than Whelan and Cameron. Could you name these players. If that's too hard it should be very easy to name the midfield pairs of the Premiership teams that I mentioned that you would prefer to see starting for Stoke instead of Whelan and Cameron. Huddlestone and Meyler maybe, or, regular relegation guarantor, Fer and Cork?
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2016 9:14:34 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron. Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered.
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Nov 17, 2016 10:02:20 GMT
Just play Charlie Adam and Imbula. Imbula's got to come back at some point. And direct Adam to sit deeper.
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Post by alster on Nov 17, 2016 10:13:01 GMT
Just play Charlie Adam and Imbula. Imbula's got to come back at some point. And direct Adam to sit deeper. Think I'd rather see Allen drawn deeper. Sad to say of two professional footballers but your suggestion could well end up as can't tackle won't tackle. I agree to a point though we've got to get Imbula back on the pitch soon. I'm not saying he needs to be the finished article but we should be able to tell almost instantly whether he's going to knuckle down and work or whether nothing much has changed with his attitude. Hope he will work to make himself a success but if he won't we should be looking for an overseas loan with a view to a perm if possible. You can't make somebody want it.
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 17, 2016 10:24:52 GMT
The statement is total bollocks. Whelan and Cameron have been regulars for a mid table team Prem team for years, both of them would walk into any team in the Championship and several in the Prem. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull, Burnley, 'Boro, WBA would all welcome Glen Whelan and Geoff Cameron. Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ?
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Post by alster on Nov 17, 2016 10:33:50 GMT
Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? Perhaps he meant in midfield that would be very low.
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josefr
Youth Player
Posts: 296
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Post by josefr on Nov 17, 2016 10:34:16 GMT
Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? I think the number actually is 137 - 163 for league games
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2016 10:36:18 GMT
Ha, you are fucking deluded. Do you even watch Stoke? Cameron has NEVER been a regular FFS. And if you think that those two would walk into the starting line-up of any of those teams regardless of their league positon you are truly blinkered. Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? Has he ever been a nailed on starter? No. Has he ever cemented his place in one position? No. Can he provide cover for injuries suspensions etc. Oooh, yes that must be it... The last 3 or 4 weeks must be the first time he has been picked ahead of other players in a very long time.
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 17, 2016 10:37:17 GMT
Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? I think the number actually is 137 - 163 for league games No the 137 includes cup matches
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 17, 2016 10:40:22 GMT
Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? Has he ever been a nailed on starter? No. Has he ever cemented his place in one position? No. Can he provide cover for injuries suspensions etc. Oooh, yes that must be it... He's started 106 league games. Doesn't matter what Excuses you try to bring up 106 starts from a possible 163 games is a regular starter.
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Post by alster on Nov 17, 2016 10:42:31 GMT
Cameron has 121 Appearances out of 162 League games, if that's not a regular then I don't know what the fuck is ? Has he ever been a nailed on starter? No. Has he ever cemented his place in one position? No. Can he provide cover for injuries suspensions etc. Oooh, yes that must be it... He has some great attributes but in each position theres always something that lets him down. Very useful squad player but for him to be any more than that is an indictment on the state of the squad.
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Post by stantheman on Nov 17, 2016 10:43:39 GMT
Is it? GW is a workhorse with very limited ability. Cameron is jack of all trades master of none. Name any of the other top 24 teams in the country whose first eleven they could walk straight into? Put your bollocks to one side and be objective... Ask Ryan Shawcross who he would want playing just in front of him. He'll tell you Whelan 100%
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