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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 16, 2016 11:11:47 GMT
Dont be too quick to wet your knickers. We had GW in front of the back four during the abysmal start to the season and the end of last, so lets just dispel this myth that he is some magical protective talisman. We have looked stronger & more organised recently but do not forget that this has been against some of the lesser teams in the division. I am sure others can step in and perform. If Hughes gives them strict instructions then I am sure they will be carried out. "Magical protective talisman" thats up there with a striker who's "not in the team to score goals". Its the sort of legend that Stoke fans seem to make up when they like a player who makes a big effort but clearly doesn't have any attributes you'd use to describe a top flight footballer. "attributes you'd use to describe a top flight footballer".....ignoring the fact that Glenn is an established top flight and international footballer. Sums up some Stoke fans that in arguably our best ever period we still can't wait to have a dig at stalwarts like Whelan and Walters. Mental.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:14:15 GMT
Only on here could an injury to Geoff Cameron be met with cries of doom. He's a very limited, versatile squad player. Well thats what he should be anyway, we can put better players in deep lying midfield roles. As long as the manager gives them clear instruction what he wants from them and makes sure he keeps on top of them during the game, not let them do what they want then have a hissy fit when it goes wrong we should be fine. In fact better than we were with him and Whelan sitting. And these players are?? These are our other midfielders, don't you know which players we have in our squad. They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. At the end of the day you're replacing two very limited players.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 11:16:36 GMT
These are our other midfielders, don't you know which players we have in our squad. They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. At the end of the day you're replacing two very limited players. Who are doing a better job than the "more talented" players, which makes your argument a bit suspect.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:16:42 GMT
"Magical protective talisman" thats up there with a striker who's "not in the team to score goals". Its the sort of legend that Stoke fans seem to make up when they like a player who makes a big effort but clearly doesn't have any attributes you'd use to describe a top flight footballer. "attributes you'd use to describe a top flight footballer".....ignoring the fact that Glenn is an established top flight and international footballer. Sums up some Stoke fans that in arguably our best ever period we still can't wait to have a dig at stalwarts like Whelan and Walters. Mental. I'd probably think your opinions were mental too buy hey you're free to hold them so why not either present a reasoned argument or just agree to disagree.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:18:19 GMT
These are our other midfielders, don't you know which players we have in our squad. They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. At the end of the day you're replacing two very limited players. Who are doing a better job than the "more talented" players, which makes your argument a bit suspect. As I've said the more talented players need giving a game plan and keeping on top of if they start deviating from it.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 11:23:01 GMT
Who are doing a better job than the "more talented" players, which makes your argument a bit suspect. As I've said the more talented players need giving a game plan and keeping on top of if they start deviating from it. Every midfielder in world football knows that they are supposed to track runners and to stay in the team shape, they shouldn't need reminding of that. It's quite clear that our more "limited players" are capable of doing it better. Discipline is a very underrated attribute in a footballer.
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 16, 2016 11:25:57 GMT
"attributes you'd use to describe a top flight footballer".....ignoring the fact that Glenn is an established top flight and international footballer. Sums up some Stoke fans that in arguably our best ever period we still can't wait to have a dig at stalwarts like Whelan and Walters. Mental. I'd probably think your opinions were mental too buy hey you're free to hold them so why not either present a reasoned argument or just agree to disagree. My reasoned argument is that Whelan has a top flight domestic and international record that totally blows your argument out of the water. In other words, he IS a top flight player. Not the best in his position but comfortably capable of playing that role in a mid table PL side and a mid ranking national team.
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Post by cooper67 on Nov 16, 2016 11:26:53 GMT
These are our other midfielders, don't you know which players we have in our squad. They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. At the end of the day you're replacing two very limited players. I'm sorry I thought you were going to mention them? Or don't you know the other midfielders we have?? Come on then enlighten us? Plus Hughes is hardly a shouty touchline manager is he?
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:34:31 GMT
These are our other midfielders, don't you know which players we have in our squad. They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. At the end of the day you're replacing two very limited players. I'm sorry I thought you were going to mention them? Or don't you know the other midfielders we have?? Come on then enlighten us? Plus Hughes is hardly a shouty touchline manager is he? What is it you want me to enlighten you on the other midfielders in our squad. try the bbc or fantasy football. Its ever likely you start panicking at losing a couple of very limited players to injury you obviously don't think players or managers can adapt their performance to suit the needs of the team. We have players who have played deep lying roles in other teams quite regularly. If the manager has to come out of his comfort zone and bark at them a bit to get them to do what he needs them to best he buys a pack of lockets.
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Post by Gods on Nov 16, 2016 11:51:03 GMT
Must admit I do from time to time share your doom-laden view of the world, I too am braced for exploratory surgery for Cameron ! Only on here could an injury to Geoff Cameron be met with cries of doom. He's a very limited, versatile squad player. Well thats what he should be anyway, we can put better players in deep lying midfield roles. As long as the manager gives them clear instruction what he wants from them and makes sure he keeps on top of them during the game, not let them do what they want then have a hissy fit when it goes wrong we should be fine. In fact better than we were with him and Whelan sitting. I thought we got a shambolic 2 points from the first possible 18 until the managerial team twigged the idea that a highly mobile Geoff Cameron would help sure up the operation
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:55:41 GMT
I'd probably think your opinions were mental too buy hey you're free to hold them so why not either present a reasoned argument or just agree to disagree. My reasoned argument is that Whelan has a top flight domestic and international record that totally blows your argument out of the water. In other words, he IS a top flight player. Not the best in his position but comfortably capable of playing that role in a mid table PL side and a mid ranking national team. Right so he's managed to play at that level for a good many years so what are his attributes that you'd associate with a top flight footballer. You've told me what teams he's played in thanks I did already know but you're using the Mama argument and when people using that argument are actually put to task describing the players attributes as a footballer they're normally pretty flummoxed.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 11:58:55 GMT
Some top level bollocks being spouted on here
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 11:59:07 GMT
Only on here could an injury to Geoff Cameron be met with cries of doom. He's a very limited, versatile squad player. Well thats what he should be anyway, we can put better players in deep lying midfield roles. As long as the manager gives them clear instruction what he wants from them and makes sure he keeps on top of them during the game, not let them do what they want then have a hissy fit when it goes wrong we should be fine. In fact better than we were with him and Whelan sitting. I thought we got a shambolic 2 points from the first possible 18 until the managerial team twigged the idea that a highly mobile Geoff Cameron would help sure up the operation Joe Allen is perfectly capable of providing that mobility if he has to be reminded of his positional discipline occasionally thats what you've got a manager for if he doesn't like shouting he'll have to get Bowen to do it.
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Nov 16, 2016 12:16:04 GMT
They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. As I've said the more talented players need giving a game plan and keeping on top of if they start deviating from it. Sorry to jump in here. Just so I've got this right; physicality, mindset, vision and positional sense are all redundant features so long as a player is "more talented" (as in technical skill I imagine), and is "kept on top of" by the management tactically? Under this theory, Lionel Messi would make a better holding/defensive midfielder than Arturo Vidal? Coutinho better there than Kante? Bojan than Cameron?
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 12:54:51 GMT
Some top level bollocks being spouted on here Be quiet then!
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 12:58:55 GMT
They all have more ability and should be capable of doing a job sitting if reigned in and kept on top of by the manager. As I've said the more talented players need giving a game plan and keeping on top of if they start deviating from it. Sorry to jump in here. Just so I've got this right; physicality, mindset, vision and positional sense are all redundant features so long as a player is "more talented" (as in technical skill I imagine), and is "kept on top of" by the management tactically? Under this theory, Lionel Messi would make a better holding/defensive midfielder than Arturo Vidal? Coutinho better there than Kante? Bojan than Cameron? Why are you comparing players who are forwards or attacking midfielders with players for deep lying midfield roles. We have at our club a selection of players who have played deep lying midfield roles both internationally and at other clubs yet when they come to our club all of a sudden they're attacking midfielders and not suitable for deep lying roles which is complete hogwash.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 12:59:04 GMT
Some top level bollocks being spouted on here Be quiet then! 😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 13:00:12 GMT
Wasted I'm don't even know what they are.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 13:02:59 GMT
Wasted I'm don't even know what they are. It's me laughing at your nonsense.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 13:22:46 GMT
Wasted I'm don't even know what they are. It's me laughing at your nonsense. I ought to feel suitably humiliated. Try something a little more mature next time. It still won't work but it will save explaining yourself,always the sign of a bad joke.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 16, 2016 13:29:22 GMT
No-one is saying that they have not done a good job recently, but Alster is right - if we cannot manage without players like Whelan and Cameron who lets face it would struggle to get into a top Championship side, never mind Premier League! - then there is something wrong.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 13:29:33 GMT
It's me laughing at your nonsense. I ought to feel suitably humiliated. Try something a little more mature next time. It still won't work but it will save explaining yourself,always the sign of a bad joke. How is posting an emoji of a laughing face a bad joke? Cheer up you miserable git.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 13:46:05 GMT
I ought to feel suitably humiliated. Try something a little more mature next time. It still won't work but it will save explaining yourself,always the sign of a bad joke. How is posting an emoji of a laughing face a bad joke? Cheer up you miserable git. I don't do very cheerful or very sad I'm afraid. Have you worked out yet whats unique about Stoke's midfield that players who are perfectly able to fulfill deep lying roles elsewhere come here and just can't be trusted.
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 16, 2016 13:52:17 GMT
My reasoned argument is that Whelan has a top flight domestic and international record that totally blows your argument out of the water. In other words, he IS a top flight player. Not the best in his position but comfortably capable of playing that role in a mid table PL side and a mid ranking national team. Right so he's managed to play at that level for a good many years so what are his attributes that you'd associate with a top flight footballer. You've told me what teams he's played in thanks I did already know but you're using the Mama argument and when people using that argument are actually put to task describing the players attributes as a footballer they're normally pretty flummoxed. He's a good ball winner. He makes the right call when in possession time and time again. Positionally he's virtually flawless. He's disciplined and provides a consistent presence in the midfield. He has outstanding stamina and is capable of putting in a 90 minute shift on a weekly basis.
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Post by butlerstbob on Nov 16, 2016 13:59:11 GMT
Always makes me laugh when I pop on here and read what some of you over qualified football managers fifa 2016 xbox 360 experts say about certain players, Whelan has played well over 200 Premier games and god knows how many international games under two very good premiership & several international managers and you would argue until your blue in the face that you know better than them!
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Post by thetron on Nov 16, 2016 14:03:19 GMT
Surely without Glen or Cameron Allen will play along side Adam with Bojan in behind the striker?
Cant see many alternatives. As Imbula looks out of favour at the moment.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 14:17:20 GMT
How is posting an emoji of a laughing face a bad joke? Cheer up you miserable git. I don't do very cheerful or very sad I'm afraid. Have you worked out yet whats unique about Stoke's midfield that players who are perfectly able to fulfill deep lying roles elsewhere come here and just can't be trusted. Because they were shown to be a defensive liability when they were in the team perhaps? Doesn't take much working out tbf.
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Post by alster on Nov 16, 2016 14:20:47 GMT
I don't do very cheerful or very sad I'm afraid. Have you worked out yet whats unique about Stoke's midfield that players who are perfectly able to fulfill deep lying roles elsewhere come here and just can't be trusted. Because they were shown to be a defensive liability when they were in the team perhaps? Doesn't take much working out tbf. Yeah it takes a lot of working out you're still not telling me whats unique about our team that they can play in deep lying roles elsewhere even in the same league but not for us.
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Post by blurtonboy on Nov 16, 2016 14:21:03 GMT
No-one is saying that they have not done a good job recently, but Alster is right - if we cannot manage without players like Whelan and Cameron That part is correct who lets face it would struggle to get into a top Championship side, never mind Premier League! - That part is Bollocks.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 16, 2016 14:27:10 GMT
Because they were shown to be a defensive liability when they were in the team perhaps? Doesn't take much working out tbf. Yeah it takes a lot of working out you're still not telling me whats unique about our team that they can play in deep lying roles elsewhere even in the same league but not for us. I'm choosing to watch Andy Murray twat a Tennis ball for a couple of hours over this "discussion" I'm afraid. All I can say is, I only care how they perform in a Stoke shirt. If they aren't cutting it then they deserve to be on the bench. I don't give a flying fook where they were playing before they came to Stoke. If you're referring to Joe Allen (you refuse to name names for some bizzare reason) then his high pressing style is better suited to the number 10 role than in a deep lying midfield position due to his natural inclination to press the opposition. Watch his performance at Crystal Palace, he was leaving us exposed in that position. (Btw, Bojan played in that game as well and is a line up heavily touted to play this Saturday)
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