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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 15, 2016 18:44:15 GMT
Some Stoke fans - what an angry blinkered bunch. Imbula has not had a brilliant start to the season granted. But to make him a scape goat for our current plight is just so far off the mark - he is obviously a victim of the price tag. I think we have far bigger issues to address. Whelan and Walters are not good enough. Our full backs absolutely are not and at present we look weak in goal. Yet I keep reading Imbula is to blame. I do not think Imbula has done all that well but he aint the sole reason for our start. That is nonsense. A couple of wins and everyone's mood changes - we will beat Palace, I honestly think this but we must all stay together and get off the mans back. What a load of bollox.... It's fair to say he hasn't lived up to the hype we all thought, we've seen glimpses but not consistence!!! The team as a whole have been playing poor since the turn of the year (which coincidentally coincides with the arrival of imbula!!! ), and in that time, players such as..... Peiters Arnautovic Cameron Haugaard Given Shakiri Joselu Diouf Walters Bojan Whelan Bardsley Have all come under fire.....NON more so than.....Wollscheid!!! It's just that with some people, they can accept dishing it out to players who AREN'T one of their favourite players, but then get all shity when a player they like gets some flak!!! Imbula's had no more shit than anyone else, especially Wollscheid!!!
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 15, 2016 18:48:40 GMT
I think dropping him might do him some good. I believe he's our best central midfielder but I think he knows this and has got too comfortable hence the slow start. Hopefully if we drop him and bring him on, telling him to make the difference this might motivate him and get him back to playing to his true ability. He's not the only one performing at his best but I genuinely think it might be good for him. I'd be relieved if this was the case but I don't think he is too comfortable and in his own way he's trying to make an impact but doesn't have a natural awareness of the play around him. Very very frustrating because there is a fabulous footballer in there.
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Post by MilanStokie on Sept 15, 2016 19:00:01 GMT
Some Stoke fans - what an angry blinkered bunch. Imbula has not had a brilliant start to the season granted. But to make him a scape goat for our current plight is just so far off the mark - he is obviously a victim of the price tag. I think we have far bigger issues to address. Whelan and Walters are not good enough. Our full backs absolutely are not and at present we look weak in goal. Yet I keep reading Imbula is to blame. I do not think Imbula has done all that well but he aint the sole reason for our start. That is nonsense. A couple of wins and everyone's mood changes - we will beat Palace, I honestly think this but we must all stay together and get off the mans back. What a load of bollox.... It's fair to say he hasn't lived up to the hype we all thought, we've seen glimpses but not consistence!!! The team as a whole have been playing poor since the turn of the year (which coincidentally coincides with the arrival of imbula!!! ), and in that time, players such as..... Peiters Arnautovic Cameron Haugaard Given Shakiri Joselu Diouf Walters Bojan Whelan Bardsley Have all come under fire.....NON more so than.....Wollscheid!!! It's just that with some people, they can accept dishing it out to players who AREN'T one of their favourite players, but then get all shity when a player they like gets some flak!!! Imbula's had no more shit than anyone else, especially Wollscheid!!! Yup as I said before, to suggest he is being singled out is a load of bollocks. half the team are coming under fire at the moment. Imbula needs to be dropped for the good of both him and the team. he's clearly not enjoying it at the minute and I think it would do him some good to see how things develop without him. hopefully it will motivate him into some form we saw very early on.
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Post by woodstein on Sept 15, 2016 19:04:45 GMT
Comparison between Imbula & Whelen is one has served well over the years and the other turned up as an expensive buy and hasn't done enough to warrant the fee. I love Charlie Adam for the fact that he's got a brilliant shot on him, if you don't aim for goal you won't score so a bit more direct play is needed especially at the moment seeing as goals are scarce. Crouch in too as we need to get goals to cover poor defence. Its up to Hughes now though, whatever we all want.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 19:05:55 GMT
He very rarely does it though and I don't want him to be some defensive rock but the ease at which players run past him is worrying. He's got no idea of body shape/position. He needs coaching and I think it's as simple as that. Imbula has been in football since his formative years and has played at decent European clubs like Marseille and Porto. I'm sure he has had plenty of coaching during these years but he doesn't seem to read a game or have any natural instincts. As far as natural talent goes he's got as much as any player I've seen at Stoke and could be fucking brilliant but sadly the more I see of him the more I'm convinced it won't happen. Body shape and positioning can be coached into anyone. It's not difficult and what he needs to do really isn't.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2016 19:08:23 GMT
Some Stoke fans - what an angry blinkered bunch. Imbula has not had a brilliant start to the season granted. But to make him a scape goat for our current plight is just so far off the mark - he is obviously a victim of the price tag. I think we have far bigger issues to address. Whelan and Walters are not good enough. Our full backs absolutely are not and at present we look weak in goal. Yet I keep reading Imbula is to blame. I do not think Imbula has done all that well but he aint the sole reason for our start. That is nonsense. A couple of wins and everyone's mood changes - we will beat Palace, I honestly think this but we must all stay together and get off the mans back. Many on here have already posted that it is not the fault of the player, yes he is looking far from what we should be expecting from our record signing, however he was bought by Mark and his team to do a job in a system that does not suit his strengths, I fear that his confidence will be shot to shit if Hughes continues playing him at the moment, he has to drop him and sort out the issues in training.
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Post by potterspele on Sept 15, 2016 19:10:47 GMT
Imbula is a decent player but will always be on the end of stick due to his lack of effort defensively.
I agree with the majority of people that his talent is better going forward but there's no room for that at the minute when we're shipping goals for fun, certainly not through the middle when the cost of that defensively is clear to see.
There's plenty of knives out for Whelan at the minute just the same but for him you can't say he's not putting in the effort, it seems more to me that it might be that inevitable point of decline. But in spite of that he doesn't let people jog past him and give up and that makes it all the more obvious that Imbula isnt pulling his weight.
Personally I think he needs to have a look at himself along with a few others. If he wants to realise his potential he will need to improve. I haven't seen that desire in his character yet to make me think he will and a spell on the bench will test exactly that.
You can say it's a witch hunt for him, I don't think it's that so much as everyone can see we need a change. Since its unlikely to be the tactics then it will need to be the personnel and for all of Imbula's ability with the ball you would be hard pushed to find anyone that would claim he's useful when we're under pressure, particularly when recent form has exposed us for having so little fight as soon as the chips are down.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 15, 2016 19:12:56 GMT
What a load of bollox.... It's fair to say he hasn't lived up to the hype we all thought, we've seen glimpses but not consistence!!! The team as a whole have been playing poor since the turn of the year (which coincidentally coincides with the arrival of imbula!!! ), and in that time, players such as..... Peiters Arnautovic Cameron Haugaard Given Shakiri Joselu Diouf Walters Bojan Whelan Bardsley Have all come under fire.....NON more so than.....Wollscheid!!! It's just that with some people, they can accept dishing it out to players who AREN'T one of their favourite players, but then get all shity when a player they like gets some flak!!! Imbula's had no more shit than anyone else, especially Wollscheid!!! Yup as I said before, to suggest he is being singled out is a load of bollocks. half the team are coming under fire at the moment. Imbula needs to be dropped for the good of both him and the team. he's clearly not enjoying it at the minute and I think it would do him some good to see how things develop without him. hopefully it will motivate him into some form we saw very early on. Agreed, and it's not through any witch hunt.....he simply needs a couple of weeks on the bench, that way, we'll get to see if the side is better with or without him, or it may give him a kick up the arse he needs!!! Saying that, they all need a kick up the arse at the moment!!!
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Post by no1972 on Sept 15, 2016 19:13:03 GMT
There is no witch hunt just facts ,he is not good engouh for the prem.No one in the team has played well this year,and it all goes back to when he signed,it's not his fault it's the manager.We are compleatly lob sided with him in the team.The midfield was fine before he arrived.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 15, 2016 19:18:56 GMT
If you have a problem and keep ignoring the problem..it doesn't go away. It gets worse.
If people try to address the problem they are accused of witch-hunting.
Imbula needs dropping for the Palace game along with Whelan.
They are playing very poorly along with others (such as SJW).
If the management cannot learn from their past mistakes and address the problems we have we are in deep trouble.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 15, 2016 19:19:29 GMT
Imbula has been in football since his formative years and has played at decent European clubs like Marseille and Porto. I'm sure he has had plenty of coaching during these years but he doesn't seem to read a game or have any natural instincts. As far as natural talent goes he's got as much as any player I've seen at Stoke and could be fucking brilliant but sadly the more I see of him the more I'm convinced it won't happen. Body shape and positioning can be coached into anyone. It's not difficult and what he needs to do really isn't. Don't agree, a player has to have a natural awareness and that can't be coached. As I've said you can drill a system into a player and for a good part of a game he can follow the plan but he'll lapse during a game because it's not his natural game. The best players know the positions to take and the passes to make, it's natural to them.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2016 19:21:10 GMT
Some Stoke fans - what an angry blinkered bunch. Imbula has not had a brilliant start to the season granted. But to make him a scape goat for our current plight is just so far off the mark - he is obviously a victim of the price tag. I think we have far bigger issues to address. Whelan and Walters are not good enough. Our full backs absolutely are not and at present we look weak in goal. Yet I keep reading Imbula is to blame. I do not think Imbula has done all that well but he aint the sole reason for our start. That is nonsense. A couple of wins and everyone's mood changes - we will beat Palace, I honestly think this but we must all stay together and get off the mans back. What a load of bollox.... It's fair to say he hasn't lived up to the hype we all thought, we've seen glimpses but not consistence!!! The team as a whole have been playing poor since the turn of the year (which coincidentally coincides with the arrival of imbula!!! ), and in that time, players such as..... Peiters Arnautovic Cameron Haugaard Given Shakiri Joselu Diouf Walters Bojan Whelan Bardsley Have all come under fire.....NON more so than.....Wollscheid!!! It's just that with some people, they can accept dishing it out to players who AREN'T one of their favourite players, but then get all shity when a player they like gets some flak!!! Imbula's had no more shit than anyone else, especially Wollscheid!!! Perhaps that was why Wolly got earache
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 19:53:19 GMT
Body shape and positioning can be coached into anyone. It's not difficult and what he needs to do really isn't. Don't agree, a player has to have a natural awareness and that can't be coached. As I've said you can drill a system into a player and for a good part of a game he can follow the plan but he'll lapse during a game because it's not his natural game. The best players know the positions to take and the passes to make, it's natural to them. His issue is more about body angles and about literally where to stand, that can be coached. He does have lapses but his body positioning is just wrong and his starting position is wrong. Again that can be coached.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 19:55:36 GMT
This for me. Don't expect him to go flying into crunching tackles or owt,but a bit more effort to get goalside when we lose possession, and as you say some positional work on cutting off angles etc would make a huge difference to our overall solidity.His quality on the ball and vision is undeniable. But this is my argument, you either have that awareness of what's around you or you don't, it can't be coached. I'm pretty sure all the coaches of previous clubs and the coaches at Stoke have tried to work on the clear weakness in his game and every now and again it will register and he will chase a player for 80 yards like he did Saturday. But for the rest of the time he'll switch off. Body angles isn't about awareness. If he sorted how he stood and the shape his body is in he'd stop a lot of his bad defensive play and that can be coached easily. It's about more than switching off. He might as well not be there when we don't have the ball 99% of the time.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 15, 2016 20:22:44 GMT
Some Stoke fans - what an angry blinkered bunch. Imbula has not had a brilliant start to the season granted. But to make him a scape goat for our current plight is just so far off the mark - he is obviously a victim of the price tag. I think we have far bigger issues to address. Whelan and Walters are not good enough. Our full backs absolutely are not and at present we look weak in goal. Yet I keep reading Imbula is to blame. I do not think Imbula has done all that well but he aint the sole reason for our start. That is nonsense. A couple of wins and everyone's mood changes - we will beat Palace, I honestly think this but we must all stay together and get off the mans back. Oh great, just what we needed ... ANOTHER Imbula thread! Jesus ...
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Post by march4 on Sept 15, 2016 20:32:03 GMT
We simply have to get behind all of the players to get ourselves out of this tricky spot.
It doesn't matter who Hughes picks, we must cheer them all unconditionally.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 21:36:15 GMT
But this is my argument, you either have that awareness of what's around you or you don't, it can't be coached. I'm pretty sure all the coaches of previous clubs and the coaches at Stoke have tried to work on the clear weakness in his game and every now and again it will register and he will chase a player for 80 yards like he did Saturday. But for the rest of the time he'll switch off. Body angles isn't about awareness. If he sorted how he stood and the shape his body is in he'd stop a lot of his bad defensive play and that can be coached easily. It's about more than switching off. He might as well not be there when we don't have the ball 99% of the time. Try and collar him after the next home game, I'm sure he'd love to hear your body angle chatter......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 21:40:03 GMT
Body angles isn't about awareness. If he sorted how he stood and the shape his body is in he'd stop a lot of his bad defensive play and that can be coached easily. It's about more than switching off. He might as well not be there when we don't have the ball 99% of the time. Try and collar him after the next home game, I'm sure he'd love to hear your body angle chatter...... As ever, a fantastic contribution.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 15, 2016 21:43:17 GMT
But this is my argument, you either have that awareness of what's around you or you don't, it can't be coached. I'm pretty sure all the coaches of previous clubs and the coaches at Stoke have tried to work on the clear weakness in his game and every now and again it will register and he will chase a player for 80 yards like he did Saturday. But for the rest of the time he'll switch off. Body angles isn't about awareness. If he sorted how he stood and the shape his body is in he'd stop a lot of his bad defensive play and that can be coached easily. It's about more than switching off. He might as well not be there when we don't have the ball 99% of the time. 'Body Shape' is straight out of a football coaching manual. It looks pretty impressive in theory and has it's merits in lower and non league football where the standards are lower and organised teams at that standard are better than less organised teams. Reminds me a little of the position of maximum opportunity advocated by Charles Hughes.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 21:46:48 GMT
Body angles isn't about awareness. If he sorted how he stood and the shape his body is in he'd stop a lot of his bad defensive play and that can be coached easily. It's about more than switching off. He might as well not be there when we don't have the ball 99% of the time. 'Body Shape' is straight out of a football coaching manual. It looks pretty impressive in theory and has it's merits in lower and non league football where the standards are lower and organised teams at that standard are better than less organised teams. Reminds me a little of the position of maximum opportunity advocated by Charles Hughes. Watch him play! Players run past him like he isn't there, it's nothing to do with awareness. He knows they're there, he just messes his positioning up and he goes in for a tackle and they just go by him. It's all about his starting position, he's not even an obstacle and that is down to his body shape. And position of maximum opportunity has nothing to do with this!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 21:51:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 21:51:21 GMT
Try and collar him after the next home game, I'm sure he'd love to hear your body angle chatter...... As ever, a fantastic contribution. Thanks Bayern. I hereby declare you The Oatcake's resident body shape expert. Congratulations chief.....
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 15, 2016 21:52:04 GMT
'Body Shape' is straight out of a football coaching manual. It looks pretty impressive in theory and has it's merits in lower and non league football where the standards are lower and organised teams at that standard are better than less organised teams. Reminds me a little of the position of maximum opportunity advocated by Charles Hughes. Watch him play! Players run past him like he isn't there, it's nothing to do with awareness. He knows they're there, he just messes his positioning up and he goes in for a tackle and they just go by him. It's all about his starting position, he's not even an obstacle and that is down to his body shape. And position of maximum opportunity has nothing to do with this! I've watched him play, he has absolutely no awareness of either his team mates or opposition running off him. Fuck all to do with body shape it's all in the head I'm afraid mate
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 21:55:03 GMT
Watch him play! Players run past him like he isn't there, it's nothing to do with awareness. He knows they're there, he just messes his positioning up and he goes in for a tackle and they just go by him. It's all about his starting position, he's not even an obstacle and that is down to his body shape. And position of maximum opportunity has nothing to do with this! I've watched him play, he has absolutely no awareness of either his team mates or opposition running off him. Fuck all to do with body shape it's all in the head I'm afraid mate He does let runners slip by him but he also serves no purpose in a team shape. He can be facing someone up and has full knowledge of them and tries to stop them but his positioning and body shape is horrific and he might as well not be there. It's also clear you have no idea what Charles Hughes was actually on about either.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 15, 2016 21:55:25 GMT
I like imbula and there's a very good player in there if we play to his strengths and get him to be a little more disciplined. I think he'll excell against the weaker teams where we have more space and less defending too do. It's no coincidence that his best game was against Boro where he was excellent.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 21:56:52 GMT
I like imbula and there's a very good player in there if we play to his strengths and get him to be a little more disciplined. I think he'll excell against the weaker teams where we have more space and less defending too do. It's no coincidence that his best game was against Boro where he was excellent. And he played in his position without someone else playing there. Funny that. Allen is as much of the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 21:59:38 GMT
I've watched him play, he has absolutely no awareness of either his team mates or opposition running off him. Fuck all to do with body shape it's all in the head I'm afraid mate He does let runners slip by him but he also serves no purpose in a team shape. He can be facing someone up and has full knowledge of them and tries to stop them but his positioning and body shape is horrific and he might as well not be there. It's also clear you have no idea what Charles Hughes was actually on about either. Your second sentence is just supposition. No actually scrap that it's made up bollocks....
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 15, 2016 21:59:51 GMT
Comparison between Imbula & Whelen is one has served well over the years and the other turned up as an expensive buy and hasn't done enough to warrant the fee. I love Charlie Adam for the fact that he's got a brilliant shot on him, if you don't aim for goal you won't score so a bit more direct play is needed especially at the moment seeing as goals are scarce. Crouch in too as we need to get goals to cover poor defence. Its up to Hughes now though, whatever we all want. Crouch? Surely Bony is a far better option and more likely to score.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 15, 2016 22:01:08 GMT
We simply have to get behind all of the players to get ourselves out of this tricky spot. It doesn't matter who Hughes picks, we must cheer them all unconditionally. Dead right. I'm hoping to see a battling performance from the lads this weekend and I think we'll get one. Our support can definitely help in this regard.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 15, 2016 22:01:30 GMT
He does let runners slip by him but he also serves no purpose in a team shape. He can be facing someone up and has full knowledge of them and tries to stop them but his positioning and body shape is horrific and he might as well not be there. It's also clear you have no idea what Charles Hughes was actually on about either. Your second sentence is just supposition. No actually scrap that it's made up bollocks.... It happens numerous times every game and has done since he joined us. It's part of the reason he gives so many fouls away too because they get past him and then he legs them up. Do you actually watch him?
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