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Post by geoff321 on Aug 23, 2016 7:42:46 GMT
Corners have always been an exciting part of the game but for several years they have been spoiled by the grappling and shirt pulling that goes on and has largely been ignored by officials. In my view the time for quiet words with players has long gone and most people were in fact calling for the referees to take action with this issue, the problem with football fans though is they all call for action against such things as shirt pulling and diving unless it's against their own team.
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Post by richardparker on Aug 23, 2016 7:45:05 GMT
Corners have always been an exciting part of the game but for several years they have been spoiled by the grappling and shirt pulling that goes on and has largely been ignored by officials. In my view the time for quiet words with players has long gone and most people were in fact calling for the referees to take action with this issue, the problem with football fans though is they all call for action against such things as shirt pulling and diving unless it's against their own team. Fair comment. Also, wasn't a penalty as it was against my team!
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 23, 2016 8:23:13 GMT
Of course it wasn't, Richard. Only Stoke do it. I imagine that Manchester City have made their displeasure known to the authorities that they should have to face the same rules as Stoke City. There are very rich influential people coming into the game investing £100ms in buying clubs. You cannot tell me they are not doing that without making sure that the people in charge are made well aware which side their bread is buttered and that they don't want decisions made that go against their heavy investment. Such rich powerful people know which strings to pull to get what they want. One ManC player, Stones, cost almost the whole of Stoke's team on Saturday, and the people who spent the money on Sterling are not wanting to see a referee make their investment look foolish.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 23, 2016 8:50:59 GMT
offsiderulepodcast.com/2016/08/23/ref-review-mark-halsey-unhappy-with-decision-making-between-watford-and-chelsea-stoke-and-manchester-city/?New directive sees Dean flourish Game: Stoke 1 – 4 Manchester City Ref: Mike Dean Stoke’s clash with Manchester City this weekend allowed fans to see the new Premier League refereeing directive in action. While last week saw Kevin Friend setting an excellent precedent, this week was Mike Dean’s turn to prove himself. First up was a penalty given to Man City after Ryan Shawcross clearly pulled back Nicolas Otamendi as the ball was looped in. Shawcross is known for his antics in the box, and the penalty was a timely reminder that such shenanigans will no longer be tolerated after the summer’s overhaul of refereeing directives. At the other end of the pitch, Dean then gave a penalty to Stoke after adjudging that Raheem Sterling had impeded Shawcross from jumping for the ball. It appeared a soft decision, but an understandable one considering his new marching orders. The problem for Dean really lay in the penalty not given. After Phil Bardsley’s volley was saved, a clumsy Aleksandar Kolarov shoved Joe Allen to the floor. The incident was as clear a penalty as you’ll ever see, and it was an unfortunate blot on an otherwise impressive refereeing performance by the often much-maligned Dean. Grade: B. Would’ve been a brilliant performance had Dean given all three penalties and been consistent in his decision-making. Mark Halsey’s VerdictAs I understand it there has been NO directives issued to the referees, whatever Chris Foy has said to the clubs we don’t know but holding and pulling has been discussed a lot. Last season there were instances where players were grappling and no action had been taken, that’s what we’re trying to get at and we want to penalise the right offences. You can support Mike Dean’s first decision but he wasn’t pro-active, he should have spoke to them beforehand and then let the corner happen. If it still happens then you can say they can have no complaints because they’ve been warned. It’s very important we pick out the right decisions, I don’t think there’s been any new directive to any referee at any level so what are the PGMOL management telling them? Are referees going out and doing things their own way? How many games at the Euro’s were we discussing referees? They were excellent yet two weeks into the new Premier League season and all we’re talking about is referees. Take the Raheem Sterling incident, there’s nothing in the laws to say you have to be looking at the ball. Sterling is doing his job, it’s a contact sport and there’s minimal contact, he doesn’t impede Shawcross one bit and Shawcross even admitted himself he didn’t think it was a foul. It will be very difficult for the referee that goes and takes charge of Stoke this weekend, they’ve got meetings at St. George’s Park this week and I’ll bet they’ll be telling Mike Dean that wasn’t a penalty against Raheem Sterling. Mike Riley could come out in the press and say this was a penalty for that reason and this wasn’t a penalty for one reason but he won’t come out and talk to the media. I’m saying the Shawcross foul on Sterling has never been a penalty and never will be, out of the three the most blatant penalty was Kolarov on Joe Allen but Mike Dean’s position was too detached from play to see it. You’ve got to look at the assistant too, he’s right there and he’s missed it.
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Post by pottarius on Aug 23, 2016 8:58:56 GMT
Take the Raheem Sterling incident, there’s nothing in the laws to say you have to be looking at the ball. Sterling is doing his job, it’s a contact sport and there’s minimal contact, he doesn’t impede Shawcross one bit and Shawcross even admitted himself he didn’t think it was a foul. It will be very difficult for the referee that goes and takes charge of Stoke this weekend, they’ve got meetings at St. George’s Park this week and I’ll bet they’ll be telling Mike Dean that wasn’t a penalty against Raheem Sterling. Mike Riley could come out in the press and say this was a penalty for that reason and this wasn’t a penalty for one reason but he won’t come out and talk to the media. I’m saying the Shawcross foul on Sterling has never been a penalty and never will be, out of the three the most blatant penalty was Kolarov on Joe Allen but Mike Dean’s position was too detached from play to see it. You’ve got to look at the assistant too, he’s right there and he’s missed it. Freudian slip of the tongue!
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Post by richardparker on Aug 23, 2016 9:10:15 GMT
Of course it wasn't, Richard. Only Stoke do it. I imagine that Manchester City have made their displeasure known to the authorities that they should have to face the same rules as Stoke City. There are very rich influential people coming into the game investing £100ms in buying clubs. You cannot tell me they are not doing that without making sure that the people in charge are made well aware which side their bread is buttered and that they don't want decisions made that go against their heavy investment. Such rich powerful people know which strings to pull to get what they want. One ManC player, Stones, cost almost the whole of Stoke's team on Saturday, and the people who spent the money on Sterling are not wanting to see a referee make their investment look foolish. If Stoke did what Sterling had done, after first winning a penalty like the one that Shawcross was punished for, it would probably have been 'just desserts', and no further questions asked/comments made. For me Sterling's foul on Ryan was every bit as much a penalty as Ryan's was on Otomendi, despite what Ryan said afterwards. The shove by Sterling was deliberate unprovoked physical contact in an off-the-ball incident. The fact that Ryan didn't flinch doesn't mean that technically it wasn't a penalty! Meanwhile, Kolorov on Joe Allen ... This 'non-penalty' was the major decision that Dean made. It is now only being discussed as an incidental matter.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 23, 2016 9:58:14 GMT
He got the 3 big decisions wrong.
The 2 have aren't penos, the one he didn't should have been.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 23, 2016 11:51:33 GMT
It's easy to say bayern he got the two penalty decisions wrong perhaps you could explain, keeping in mind the laws of the game, why he got them wrong?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 23, 2016 16:07:05 GMT
Shawcross' the 2 players are doing the same thing, it's not a foul.
Ours was a joke. Awarded because the crowd wanted it.
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Mike Dean
Aug 23, 2016 16:11:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 16:11:14 GMT
Corners have always been an exciting part of the game but for several years they have been spoiled by the grappling and shirt pulling that goes on and has largely been ignored by officials. In my view the time for quiet words with players has long gone and most people were in fact calling for the referees to take action with this issue, the problem with football fans though is they all call for action against such things as shirt pulling and diving unless it's against their own team. I disagree because I haven't got a problem with penalties being given for holding or shirt pulling in the box as long as the referees show some consistency. I would bet that hardly anymore penalties are given this season for the offences we saw on Saturday.
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Mike Dean
Aug 23, 2016 16:15:33 GMT
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Post by colinroberts1 on Aug 23, 2016 16:15:33 GMT
It's easy to say bayern he got the two penalty decisions wrong perhaps you could explain, keeping in mind the laws of the game, why he got them wrong? How can you penalise one player when they are both holding and pulling shirts. I still don't think that our penasty was a penalty, just wasn't a foul !! Allen foul definitely !!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 23, 2016 16:18:24 GMT
It's easy to say bayern he got the two penalty decisions wrong perhaps you could explain, keeping in mind the laws of the game, why he got them wrong? How can you penalise one player when they are both holding and pulling shirts. I still don't think that our penasty was a penalty, just wasn't a foul !! Allen foul definitely !! Mark Halsey in the image posted above says that Sterling's was wrong in law and Shawcross's was poor refereeing as although arguably a penalty in law the guidance is to deliver a warning before taking such drastic action. The Allen one is just rank bad refereeing by a bloke so desperate to be in the headlines he got himself in a right fucking mess and ruined what was shaping up to be a decent contest.
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Mike Dean
Aug 23, 2016 16:22:12 GMT
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Post by colinroberts1 on Aug 23, 2016 16:22:12 GMT
Are managers allowed to give the ref an earful of how he's fucked up something during 1st half? Something must have been said for him to give that joke one in 2nd half
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 23, 2016 16:31:06 GMT
Just to try and deal with a few points raised.
Dermot Gallagher thinks both were penalties.
Inconsistency is nothing to do with the laws of the game.
Ryan was holding the City players arm and Sterling raised his arms to try and prevent Ryan's movement. Regarding the City player pulling Ryan's shirt, it would then depend on who did what first and what view the referee had of it.
Regarding Dean being a bad referee and headline seeker, if that's correct all the more reason why Mark Hughes should have warned his players to be very careful indeed!
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Post by stokie1954 on Aug 23, 2016 16:37:18 GMT
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me. The ref debate is pointless. Common theme when Stoke lose. Man City were a class above and Stoke were clueless yet again.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 23, 2016 16:43:13 GMT
Just to try and deal with a few points raised. Dermot Gallagher thinks both were penalties. Inconsistency is nothing to do with the laws of the game. Ryan was holding the City players arm and Sterling raised his arms to try and prevent Ryan's movement. Regarding the City player pulling Ryan's shirt, it would then depend on who did what first and what view the referee had of it. Regarding Dean being a bad referee and headline seeker, if that's correct all the more reason why Mark Hughes should have warned his players to be very careful indeed! So two ex refs disagree. Inconsistency. Marvellous.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 23, 2016 16:47:39 GMT
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me. The ref debate is pointless. Common theme when Stoke lose. Man City were a class above and Stoke were clueless yet again. We were 2-1 down with four minutes to go and despite not working the goalkeeper as usual were easily matching them. Nothing like you paint. What we'll never know because of that bald prick is how it would have transpired if he hadn't decided he wanted to be in the papers on Sunday morning.
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corkstokie
Academy Starlet
Cork and Stoke...................aaaaah
Posts: 157
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Post by corkstokie on Aug 23, 2016 16:47:44 GMT
Corners have always been an exciting part of the game but for several years they have been spoiled by the grappling and shirt pulling that goes on and has largely been ignored by officials. In my view the time for quiet words with players has long gone and most people were in fact calling for the referees to take action with this issue, the problem with football fans though is they all call for action against such things as shirt pulling and diving unless it's against their own team. Agree completely with this - separate what is a practice/behaviour that has been ruining the game from whether we have been hard done by
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Mike Dean
Aug 23, 2016 16:47:49 GMT
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Post by colinroberts1 on Aug 23, 2016 16:47:49 GMT
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me. The ref debate is pointless. Common theme when Stoke lose. Man City were a class above and Stoke were clueless yet again. This is a new directive brought in to stamp out grabbing at set pieces,it's being talked about all over the media and TV in case you hadn't seen or heard. Did you think we were goin get trounced before he blew for 1st penalty then ? Coz I certainly don't think we were bein battered by any stretch before tit got himself involved
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Mike Dean
Aug 23, 2016 19:38:55 GMT
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Post by derbypotter2 on Aug 23, 2016 19:38:55 GMT
Let's just see if Dean keeps punishing similar offences against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd when they are playing at home. If so, and he's still wearing his big boy trousers when the pressure is really on, then I'll look back at his performance in this match as containing only the one glaring error (the penalty he failed to award for the foul on Allen). If his standards drop then it will sadly confirm him as the self loving, attention seeking, sycophant I suspect he might actually be.
Over to you Mike. I'll keep an open mind and try not to let previous form prejudice my judgement, a bit like you did with Shawcross I'm guessing....😉
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Post by ihaveadream on Aug 24, 2016 12:54:08 GMT
Let's just see if Dean keeps punishing similar offences against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd when they are playing at home. If so, and he's still wearing his big boy trousers when the pressure is really on, then I'll look back at his performance in this match as containing only the one glaring error (the penalty he failed to award for the foul on Allen). If his standards drop then it will sadly confirm him as the self loving, attention seeking, sycophant I suspect he might actually be. Over to you Mike. I'll keep an open mind and try not to let previous form prejudice my judgement, a bit like you did with Shawcross I'm guessing....😉 Something tells me he won't
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Post by whereami on Aug 24, 2016 13:41:17 GMT
hasnt this happened before? wasnt a penalty given against us vs wigan due to shotton holding in the box, then this new directive got totally forgotten again?
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Post by KevinWhimper on Aug 24, 2016 13:50:21 GMT
hasnt this happened before? wasnt a penalty given against us vs wigan due to shotton holding in the box, then this new directive got totally forgotten again? Can't remember that one but I remember Shawcross against Swansea.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 13:51:27 GMT
The penalty Ryan conceded against Swansea was followed by 4 or 5 of the most blatant examples of shirt pulling you'll ever see in the ManUre v Chelsea game which all went unpunished.
So forgive me if I take this new so-called clampdown with a massive pinch of salt.....
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Mike Dean
Aug 24, 2016 14:02:30 GMT
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Aug 24, 2016 14:02:30 GMT
The Man City player also had hold of Ryan's shirt.
The situation is mega tricky as the 'penalty' for one player (defender) is much higher than for the other (attacker)
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Post by block23 on Aug 24, 2016 14:21:57 GMT
Apologies if posted earlier in the thread;
4 city players surround the ref after our penalty award, no bookings, where is the consistency from last week with Arnie and shay?
First half at Boro, we had Mame and Shawcross with players hanging around their knecks, ref stopped the play and warned them on all three occasions, kick taken, still happened, no action
This is not a hard done to stoke post, just fed up of the inconsistency
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Mike Dean
Aug 24, 2016 14:42:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 14:42:40 GMT
Let's just see if Dean keeps punishing similar offences against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd when they are playing at home. If so, and he's still wearing his big boy trousers when the pressure is really on, then I'll look back at his performance in this match as containing only the one glaring error (the penalty he failed to award for the foul on Allen). If his standards drop then it will sadly confirm him as the self loving, attention seeking, sycophant I suspect he might actually be. Over to you Mike. I'll keep an open mind and try not to let previous form prejudice my judgement, a bit like you did with Shawcross I'm guessing....😉 Pretty much exactly how I feel about the situation. I've just seen it again and the Shawcross penalty looks more like the correct decision every time I see it. Surely every football fan wants to see and end to this blatant cheating at set pieces because it's going too far now, but I have serious doubts about any other penalties being given for this offence especially against one of the so called big clubs.
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