|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 13, 2016 13:00:26 GMT
For the love of god - Allardyce? Nothing is confirmed yet though One simple question- what honours has he won to warrant the position? Of the viable english candidates, will any of them have won anything? Very few English managers are given an opportunity at a club that could win anything. Big Sam, for me, would be a good choice and the fact it fucks Sunderland over in the process makes it more appetizing a prospect than it otherwise would (apologies to haway).
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 13, 2016 13:01:45 GMT
Haha. Yeah, very much so, Rob. I was gutted when Hodgson got it. A chaotic Redknapp era would've been great fun. Can't really remember the general public mood with McClaren - but he always excited me about as much as a wet Wednesday in Skegness. A Leagu Cup win didn't really prove much either way for me. And the Man Utd assistant carousel has always been interchangeable. I've always been a big fan of Sam! Everyone was underwhelmed with McClaren. But though he was a crap appointment he fulfilled criteria because he was English. Yeah, my recollection was that he went down about as well a fart in a spacesuit, Joe. But, to be fair, Allardyce would have as well- and he largely will this time too. Scolari probably would've been a disaster too as it turns out
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 13:06:23 GMT
Everyone was underwhelmed with McClaren. But though he was a crap appointment he fulfilled criteria because he was English. Yeah, my recollection was that he went down about as well a fart in a spacesuit, Joe. But, to be fair, Allardyce would have as well- and he largely will this time too. Scolari probably would've been a disaster too as it turns out We had a straight forward qualifying group and Steve couldn't get past it. Anyone else could have done. Including Scolari. Or Roy for that matter. Taylor and Keegan didn't work out but they qualified us for tournaments in harder groups.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 13:14:13 GMT
I like Allardyce for the job, but I hate the cunt. Remember when we rolled Newcastle over at the Brit in the FA cup 2008? And they scrapped the draw 0-0. Beast should have finished it off late on, but he didn't. In his interview after he slaughtered us, saying they should have won etc etc. Never forgiven him for that. Was sacked shortly after, we heard the news on the coach on the way up to St James Park. We had the BBC on with us asking how we felt now Keegan was there. I've been looking for that video for years - can't find it for shit. In the game up there we got battered, and I left before Liams stunner
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 13:18:07 GMT
I personally think he'd be a good choice. If only for the fact he wouldn't just pander to the top teams and pick their players. Time will tell on that one I feel. Hodgson was seen as a pragmatic results-getter who was old enough to know his own mind, but he couldn't resist picking the glamour players and trying to play in a style that was completely alien to him. Allardyce is a stronger character who you feel knows his strengths - but when the time comes I wonder if he (or anyone) will be strong enough to pick a Drinkwater above a Wilshere. Because if you go off-piste and still fuck it up you're immediately out on your arse, and a laughing stock thrown in for good measure - and with Allarduce's lack of silverware and top level experience he'll get mud thrown at him, and lose the players, quicker than others.
|
|
|
Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 13, 2016 13:56:51 GMT
I like Allardyce for the job, but I hate the cunt. Remember when we rolled Newcastle over at the Brit in the FA cup 2008? And they scrapped the draw 0-0. Beast should have finished it off late on, but he didn't. In his interview after he slaughtered us, saying they should have won etc etc. Never forgiven him for that. Was sacked shortly after, we heard the news on the coach on the way up to St James Park. We had the BBC on with us asking how we felt now Keegan was there. I've been looking for that video for years - can't find it for shit. In the game up there we got battered, and I left before Liams stunner I think it's a bit harsh to judge him on those comments, he was hanging on at that point so probably just trying to cover his own arse. He did a fine job at Bolton when he had some talent in the team and also steadied West Ham, helping them to get back in and stay in the Premiership. It will be interesting to see what he does. By all accounts he uses his sports scientists a lot and maybe the key to success is having the players all of the time, something he gets at club level but will not be able to do at international- will he have enough time with the players to get them playing the way he wants them too?
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Jul 13, 2016 14:08:56 GMT
I'm sure he'll get better results over a few games in a tournament.
And, ultimately, that's what it's about
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 14:15:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Jul 13, 2016 19:02:59 GMT
I'm sure he'll get better results over a few games in a tournament. And, ultimately, that's what it's about He might get better results but he and the team will still fall short imo. We need a coach who KNOWS how to WIN at tournament play and knockout matches and ultimately bring trophies and titles in. Del Bosque or Hiddink would have been my choice....... Is Allardyce actually confirmed or just still talking?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 19:08:34 GMT
Innovative because of stats? In that case then this is your man: In his time at Cambridge he had a bloke up in the stands with a notepad and pen recording number of long balls, successful passes, crosses etc. In terms of pro-zone he was light years ahead of his time. He also used to douse his players in ice water, something ridiculed at the time but now widely used as a recuperation aid... Exactly...
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Jul 13, 2016 19:31:38 GMT
I'm sure he'll get better results over a few games in a tournament. And, ultimately, that's what it's about He might get better results but he and the team will still fall short imo. We need a coach who KNOWS how to WIN at tournament play and knockout matches and ultimately bring trophies and titles in. Del Bosque or Hiddink would have been my choice....... Is Allardyce actually confirmed or just still talking? A results man who will get the best out of a limited bunch of players.
|
|
|
Post by LDE76 on Jul 13, 2016 19:33:04 GMT
Innovative because of stats? In that case then this is your man: In his time at Cambridge he had a bloke up in the stands with a notepad and pen recording number of long balls, successful passes, crosses etc. In terms of pro-zone he was light years ahead of his time. He also used to douse his players in ice water, something ridiculed at the time but now widely used as a recuperation aid... Exactly... I think I remember Steve Claridge recalling how he was subbed in one game for daring to take the ball down, turn, go inside and pick a pass, rather than following instructions and taking two touches before launching it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 19:34:50 GMT
Innovative because of stats? In that case then this is your man: In his time at Cambridge he had a bloke up in the stands with a notepad and pen recording number of long balls, successful passes, crosses etc. In terms of pro-zone he was light years ahead of his time. He also used to douse his players in ice water, something ridiculed at the time but now widely used as a recuperation aid... Exactly... I think I remember Steve Claridge recalling how he was subbed in one game for daring to take the ball down, turn, go inside and pick a pass, rather than following instructions and taking two touches before launching it. He's now a coach tutor for the FA at Burton, coaching our coaches through their badges!!
|
|
|
Post by LDE76 on Jul 13, 2016 19:40:54 GMT
I think I remember Steve Claridge recalling how he was subbed in one game for daring to take the ball down, turn, go inside and pick a pass, rather than following instructions and taking two touches before launching it. He's now a coach tutor for the FA at Burton, coaching our coaches through their badges!! I also remember a post-match interview after his Preston team had been beaten at the Vic, when he claimed we played it long all the time and he'd prefer his teams to play a bit more football.
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jul 13, 2016 20:14:53 GMT
Geoff Hurst described him on radio this morning as a negative manager who humps it forward - I personally dont think he is that good. What a crying shame that when we finally have a generation of decent youngsters coming through that can actually pass the ball and play with a bit of courage, we employ Tony Pulis mk 2.
Another crop of talented youngsters pissed up the wall, by xenophobic FA and England.
Quite why we must chose another English manager when they are all shit is baffling, but we would all prefer to lose with a shit English manager than win with a bloody foreigner wouldn't we.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Jul 13, 2016 20:30:37 GMT
Geoff Hurst described him on radio this morning as a negative manager who humps it forward - I personally dont think he is that good. What a crying shame that when we finally have a generation of decent youngsters coming through that can actually pass the ball and play with a bit of courage, we employ Tony Pulis mk 2. Another crop of talented youngsters pissed up the wall, by xenophobic FA and England. Quite why we must chose another English manager when they are all shit is baffling, but we would all prefer to lose with a shit English manager than win with a bloody foreigner wouldn't we. Well said that man....surely you would want to appoint the very best person for the job. I wouldn't be bothered if the person was green with 3 feet as long as he was the best in the market.
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 13, 2016 20:32:21 GMT
Sacked by West Ham, Blackburn and Newcastle for playing a shite brand of football. Marginally kept Sunderland up due to there being 3 worse teams in the league. What a bloody pedigree he has, bet Carroll and Nolan are rubbing their hands together. Absolutely appalling appointment if it happens, no better a manager than Pulis. The fact that he's even in the picture shows what a terrible pool of English managers there is about Okay, maybe so, but... Blackburn - subsequently relegated the season after? Mid-table under Allardyce? Newcastle - subsequently relegated the season after? Mid-table under Allardyce? Bolton - subsequently relegated a season or so after? Mid-table under Allardyce? I sense a theme developing...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 20:48:25 GMT
Geoff Hurst described him on radio this morning as a negative manager who humps it forward - I personally dont think he is that good. What a crying shame that when we finally have a generation of decent youngsters coming through that can actually pass the ball and play with a bit of courage, we employ Tony Pulis mk 2. Another crop of talented youngsters pissed up the wall, by xenophobic FA and England. Quite why we must chose another English manager when they are all shit is baffling, but we would all prefer to lose with a shit English manager than win with a bloody foreigner wouldn't we. If we played with the same blend of flair/strength/directness as his Bolton team I'd be more than happy. Allardyce is more of a pragmatist than he is a long ball merchant, his teams mix it up when necessary and personally I have no issue with that.......
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 20:50:56 GMT
Talk of our young players being gifted and talented. They are ok but still inferior to other players. They are good for English players but when the main agenda is clenched fists and gritted teeth it's easy to look sophisticated.
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jul 13, 2016 21:06:24 GMT
Geoff Hurst described him on radio this morning as a negative manager who humps it forward - I personally dont think he is that good. What a crying shame that when we finally have a generation of decent youngsters coming through that can actually pass the ball and play with a bit of courage, we employ Tony Pulis mk 2. Another crop of talented youngsters pissed up the wall, by xenophobic FA and England. Quite why we must chose another English manager when they are all shit is baffling, but we would all prefer to lose with a shit English manager than win with a bloody foreigner wouldn't we. If we played with the same blend of flair/strength/directness as his Bolton team I'd be more than happy. Allardyce is more of a pragmatist than he is a long ball merchant, his teams mix it up when necessary and personally I have no issue with that....... He is brought into clubs to stable them and move on because he cant take them any further - is this all we want for England. Ask West Ham fans whether they thought their side was playing with flair under him
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 21:08:00 GMT
If we played with the same blend of flair/strength/directness as his Bolton team I'd be more than happy. Allardyce is more of a pragmatist than he is a long ball merchant, his teams mix it up when necessary and personally I have no issue with that....... He is brought into clubs to stable them and move on because he cant take them any further - is this all we want for England. Ask West Ham fans whether they thought their side was playing with flair under him At this point some stability is exactly what we do need. And I aren't a Sam lover or anything.
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jul 13, 2016 21:18:41 GMT
He is brought into clubs to stable them and move on because he cant take them any further - is this all we want for England. Ask West Ham fans whether they thought their side was playing with flair under him At this point some stability is exactly what we do need. And I aren't a Sam lover or anything. But he is a shit manager - how does this bring stability. Yes - stabilty in that he will play with 2 banks of 5 next time we play Iceland in the knockouts, thus guaranteeing we at least take them to a penalty shoot out where we can take our chances. England have a talented crop of youth, therefore bring a world class manager in to get the best out of them. We have had years of England shitting themselves every time they take to the field and doing everything not to lose, but nothing to win. Stability is the last thing we need. We need someone with the bollocks to bring the best out of what are talented and courageous youngsters
|
|
|
Post by songthrush01 on Jul 13, 2016 21:21:35 GMT
Geoff Hurst described him on radio this morning as a negative manager who humps it forward - I personally dont think he is that good. What a crying shame that when we finally have a generation of decent youngsters coming through that can actually pass the ball and play with a bit of courage, we employ Tony Pulis mk 2. Another crop of talented youngsters pissed up the wall, by xenophobic FA and England. Quite why we must chose another English manager when they are all shit is baffling, but we would all prefer to lose with a shit English manager than win with a bloody foreigner wouldn't we. xenophobic? whats that a music instrument.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 21:24:48 GMT
At this point some stability is exactly what we do need. And I aren't a Sam lover or anything. But he is a shit manager - how does this bring stability. Yes - stabilty in that he will play with 2 banks of 5 next time we play Iceland in the knockouts, thus guaranteeing we at least take them to a penalty shoot out where we can take our chances. England have a talented crop of youth, therefore bring a world class manager in to get the best out of them. We have had years of England shitting themselves every time they take to the field and doing everything not to lose, but nothing to win. Stability is the last thing we need. We need someone with the bollocks to bring the best out of what are talented and courageous youngsters He's not a shit manager though
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jul 13, 2016 21:50:14 GMT
But he is a shit manager - how does this bring stability. Yes - stabilty in that he will play with 2 banks of 5 next time we play Iceland in the knockouts, thus guaranteeing we at least take them to a penalty shoot out where we can take our chances. England have a talented crop of youth, therefore bring a world class manager in to get the best out of them. We have had years of England shitting themselves every time they take to the field and doing everything not to lose, but nothing to win. Stability is the last thing we need. We need someone with the bollocks to bring the best out of what are talented and courageous youngsters He's not a shit manager though That's right I seem to remember City, Utd & Chelski all fighting for his services pre-season.. Not totally shit - but not far off. And as far as England go, utterly mediocre, and so far from the correct choice it beggars belief.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Jul 13, 2016 21:56:26 GMT
Sacked by West Ham, Blackburn and Newcastle for playing a shite brand of football. Marginally kept Sunderland up due to there being 3 worse teams in the league. What a bloody pedigree he has, bet Carroll and Nolan are rubbing their hands together. Absolutely appalling appointment if it happens, no better a manager than Pulis. The fact that he's even in the picture shows what a terrible pool of English managers there is about Okay, maybe so, but... Blackburn - subsequently relegated the season after? Mid-table under Allardyce? Newcastle - subsequently relegated the season after? Mid-table under Allardyce? Bolton - subsequently relegated a season or so after? Mid-table under Allardyce? I sense a theme developing... Yes, cause they were all virtually bankrupt after he'd finished with them.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 22:44:00 GMT
At this point some stability is exactly what we do need. And I aren't a Sam lover or anything. But he is a shit manager - how does this bring stability. Yes - stabilty in that he will play with 2 banks of 5 next time we play Iceland in the knockouts, thus guaranteeing we at least take them to a penalty shoot out where we can take our chances. England have a talented crop of youth, therefore bring a world class manager in to get the best out of them. We have had years of England shitting themselves every time they take to the field and doing everything not to lose, but nothing to win. Stability is the last thing we need. We need someone with the bollocks to bring the best out of what are talented and courageous youngsters Talented and courageous? Did you watch the tournament? There is some talent but only by English standards. Our players are over hyped and the nature of the Premier League makes us more insular than ever. In other countries our talented players would be ordinary.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 22:50:38 GMT
Shawcross would probably be England captain with Allardyce as manager,
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2016 22:54:29 GMT
Shawcross would probably be England captain with Allardyce as manager, Neil Aspin will be skipper.
|
|
|
Post by hammered on Jul 13, 2016 23:01:39 GMT
Sam was "not retained" by WHU rather than sacked. After 4 seasons, the job was done and part ways and most Hammers would respect the job he did etc.. he was miffed however that the Dave's let him go...
He certainly didn't leave under a cloud plus subsequently kept Sunderland up...
A big ego with a big chip etc..but well-meaning and second to none for stopping the rot, turning things round and provide a platform to take forward. He's pissed he's never had the opportunity to manage a truly big club and work with top talent to prove his point. England is the perfect challenge for him.
Right now England needs to reflect where it really is. Some of the biggest budgets/talent pool in world football and only Brendan's Celtic make us look better!!
Sam's back to basics dynamics of earning the right ("deplete, punish, destroy") to pretty football is where we're at - IMO.
Some of it won't be nice but I hope he sticks with the good youth and spreads the talent pool. (Shawcross) etc..
Will Sam be successful?
Will Sam fail? No.
|
|