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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 9:16:48 GMT
And yet they did. More so than Labour who prefer to force everyone to live their way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 9:39:38 GMT
It was actually all about trying to bring his own party together, nothing to do with UKIP or indeed the British people. The las thing the Tories want is to put any decisions into the hands of the great unwashed - that's just Tory politics 101 Yes I agree, threat to his party from potential UKIP voters diluting the Tory vote and letting other parties in and as you say MP's on the right of his party who have been agitating for years to get out I should have added. I honestly don't think Cameron believed the Tories would win the last election as they did, he expected coalition at best, so he thought he was offering a referendum which would help his cause but in fact never happen. However you look at it a single moment of pure unadulterated madness from Mr. Cameron. Very possibly Gods, like the Scottish vote, it was a gamble he thought he could win
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 7, 2016 9:56:55 GMT
It will all come down to a choice between two models: A.Canada model with no freedom of movement of labour but no passporting for services. In other words, services could be dealt a severe blow e.g. City of London, Canary Wharf. Or B. Norway model with trading as we are, still paying in and no/little change to migration. It will come down to what the economists and the City say? If the Canada model deals a big blow to the economy, then M/s May will accept the inevitable and sign up to B? Our economy is very much service centred so I can't see that we'd choose model A.
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Post by Gods on Sept 7, 2016 9:58:42 GMT
Yes I agree, threat to his party from potential UKIP voters diluting the Tory vote and letting other parties in and as you say MP's on the right of his party who have been agitating for years to get out I should have added. I honestly don't think Cameron believed the Tories would win the last election as they did, he expected coalition at best, so he thought he was offering a referendum which would help his cause but in fact never happen. However you look at it a single moment of pure unadulterated madness from Mr. Cameron. Very possibly Gods, like the Scottish vote, it was a gamble he thought he could win Yes he pulled Scotland off comfortably after it looked very close at the polls, I guess he was buoyed by that, in Scotland folks walked up to the precipice, gave their heads a little wobble and then stepped away. The bookies thought the same thing would happen with the Brexit vote but this time we walked up to the precipice without pausing for breath and stepped clean over the edge People think we are out of the woods because the stock market is doing okay and hedge fund managers have got even richer betting against the pound but truth is we are not even in the woods yet!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 10:00:13 GMT
And yet they did. More so than Labour who prefer to force everyone to live their way. Do you honestly think that we'd Brexit if this government don't want to? I mean come on we are talking about the Tories here, do you seriously think that they are out for us?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 10:01:33 GMT
Very possibly Gods, like the Scottish vote, it was a gamble he thought he could win Yes he pulled Scotland off comfortably after it looked very close at the polls, I guess he was buoyed by that, in Scotland folks walked up to the precipice, gave their heads a little wobble and then stepped away. The bookies thought the same thing would happen with the Brexit vote but this time we walked up to the precipice without pausing for breath and stepped clean over the edge People think we are out of the woods because the stock market is doing okay and hedge fund managers have got even richer betting against the pound but truth is we are not even in the woods yet!This is what I keep telling Mary's Rotten Fanny!
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 7, 2016 10:24:20 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 10:29:51 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn. This is exactly what's on going on Dr. Grimes. As Gods says "We aint even in the effin' woods yet!" It's more like the last hurrah for the Union membership, bloody Brexiteers claiming its their handiwork!
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 7, 2016 12:42:37 GMT
It will all come down to a choice between two models: A.Canada model with no freedom of movement of labour but no passporting for services. In other words, services could be dealt a severe blow e.g. City of London, Canary Wharf. Or B. Norway model with trading as we are, still paying in and no/little change to migration. It will come down to what the economists and the City say? If the Canada model deals a big blow to the economy, then M/s May will accept the inevitable and sign up to B? Our economy is very much service centred so I can't see that we'd choose model A. www.cityam.com/244237/you-need-know-passporting-post-Brexit-votewww.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/06/treasury-looks-at-quitting-the-single-market-as-city-rejects-nor/Passporting is not necessarily that big a deal, currently it means say Nat West can operate in any of the EU countries without having to set up a branch or a subsidiary or be authorised by these EU countries, if it is lost they can still continue to do so but have to set up a subsidiary in that country, some insurance companies (can't remember which ones) have already send passporting has no value to them as they already have european offices / subsidiaries operating.
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Post by ihaveadream on Sept 7, 2016 13:05:28 GMT
We won't know realistically how good or bad things are for another 2/3 years.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 7, 2016 13:13:35 GMT
Cheers for that FYD I hadn't seen those articles before, so ideally the banks would keep passporting because it's best for continuity but they don't want interference from the EU on regulations if we opt for a Norway style deal.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 13:31:04 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn. This is exactly what's on going on Dr. Grimes. As Gods says "We aint even in the effin' woods yet!" It's more like the last hurrah for the Union membership, bloody Brexiteers claiming its their handiwork! So if we ain't in the woods yet, how are brexit risks beginning to crystalise. As you claim, brexit has not played any part in the current market.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 7, 2016 13:42:31 GMT
Correct, a moment of pure madness. He called the referendum in an attempt to appease possible UKIP voters who had exactly zero MP's at that time and it back fired horribly on him. The public treated it as an opportunity to have a moan about lots of things that brexit won't fix and we are where we are Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 13:52:54 GMT
Correct, a moment of pure madness. He called the referendum in an attempt to appease possible UKIP voters who had exactly zero MP's at that time and it back fired horribly on him. The public treated it as an opportunity to have a moan about lots of things that brexit won't fix and we are where we are Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. Does look like the government are caving in to big businesses. If we do trigger article 52 there will be so many clauses we will still have to abide to. It just takes time to put these clauses in place first.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 13:53:01 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn. Well to be fair, Europe has been heading that way for quite a while Now us brexiters are just using your....sorry ....the anti democracy voters story line .....don't they follow that line now then?
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Post by Gods on Sept 7, 2016 14:14:09 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn. Well to be fair, Europe has been heading that way for quite a while Now us brexiters are just using your....sorry ....the anti democracy voters story line .....don't they follow that line now then? I don't get the 'anti-democracy' voters bit. Did you expect people to stop making the argument because they lost the vote? I mean that's not how politics works. The Conservatives won the last election but UKIP and Labour haven't gone off and said 'looks like those Tories were right all along, lets all rally behind the plan' have they
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 7, 2016 14:16:00 GMT
I swear that when things took an initial nosedive once the referendum outcome was confirmed some of those who supported Brexit were claiming that Brexit wasn't responsible because we were 'heading that way anyway'. Yet now things look like they are picking up they want to claim that Brexit (which hasn't even happened yet) is responsible for the upturn. Well to be fair, Europe has been heading that way for quite a while Now us brexiters are just using your....sorry ....the anti democracy voters story line .....don't they follow that line now then? I'm not anti-democracy, I voted to remain and I was disappointed with the result but I haven't called for a 2nd referendum and I believe the result needs to be accepted and we need do our best as a country to make Brexit work. Whilst some businesses are clearly optimisitc about what a Brexit future holds, we still have no idea what Brexit is going to look like yet and as such I don't think businesses will be making any significant moves until they know the rules of the game they will be playing by, therefore I don't think you can attribute the positive news concerning the economy to Brexit at this stage. We'll only know the real state of things once Brexit has actually been implemented.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 7, 2016 16:20:47 GMT
Correct, a moment of pure madness. He called the referendum in an attempt to appease possible UKIP voters who had exactly zero MP's at that time and it back fired horribly on him. The public treated it as an opportunity to have a moan about lots of things that brexit won't fix and we are where we are Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. A genuine question - when you voted for Brexit did you think anyone in politics had a plan? Did anybody say something during campaigning that made you think they had a specific plan for what we would do in the event of leaving the EU?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 19:15:32 GMT
Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. A genuine question - when you voted for Brexit did you think anyone in politics had a plan? Did anybody say something during campaigning that made you think they had a specific plan for what we would do in the event of leaving the EU? Cameron had a plan, he planned not to plan, then fuck off and leave somone else to come up with a plan.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 7, 2016 19:32:45 GMT
I'm not sure what to call the sequel to Project Fear - maybe Project Pessimism but the remain voters seem determined to talk down the UK's opportunities at every chance. Take a deep breath, there's been no third world war, no emergency budget and no recession - in fact quite the opposite. Chill.
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Post by felonious on Sept 7, 2016 19:40:49 GMT
I'm not sure what to call the sequel to Project Fear - maybe Project Pessimism but the remain voters seem determined to talk down the UK's opportunities at every chance. Take a deep breath, there's been no third world war, no emergency budget and no recession - in fact quite the opposite. Chill. Come on Numpty, everyone knows it's because of this man
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37299838
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 7, 2016 21:23:35 GMT
Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. A genuine question - when you voted for Brexit did you think anyone in politics had a plan? Did anybody say something during campaigning that made you think they had a specific plan for what we would do in the event of leaving the EU? Considering the incumbent PM at the time granted a democratic referendum that had two yes two possible realistic outcomes, you would naturally assume he had plans in place for either, seems the arrogant cock wipe and his supporters did not for one fcukin second believe we would have the bollocks to reject the failing EU project, on dear what a balls up no wonder he resigned the rest of the remain campaign MP's on all sides should have followed his cowardly way out and fallen on their own swords, including May and Red Jezza.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 4:43:10 GMT
Correct, a moment of pure madness. He called the referendum in an attempt to appease possible UKIP voters who had exactly zero MP's at that time and it back fired horribly on him. The public treated it as an opportunity to have a moan about lots of things that brexit won't fix and we are where we are Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. Not sure about refusing it, but you're right about never planning for it. It's a proper mess
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 4:46:32 GMT
Well to be fair, Europe has been heading that way for quite a while Now us brexiters are just using your....sorry ....the anti democracy voters story line .....don't they follow that line now then? I'm not anti-democracy, I voted to remain and I was disappointed with the result but I haven't called for a 2nd referendum and I believe the result needs to be accepted and we need do our best as a country to make Brexit work. Whilst some businesses are clearly optimisitc about what a Brexit future holds, we still have no idea what Brexit is going to look like yet and as such I don't think businesses will be making any significant moves until they know the rules of the game they will be playing by, therefore I don't think you can attribute the positive news concerning the economy to Brexit at this stage. We'll only know the real state of things once Brexit has actually been implemented. Yeah, so belt up Mary. You'll have to wait before you can start crowing off
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 4:48:36 GMT
Still in the Fcukin EU is where we are, where were the plans for the Brexit result ?, they never expected it never planned for it and now are refusing to action it. A genuine question - when you voted for Brexit did you think anyone in politics had a plan? Did anybody say something during campaigning that made you think they had a specific plan for what we would do in the event of leaving the EU? Carps just thought we'd brick up the channel tunnel, demolish the mosques and send all the muslims back to muslimland
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 9:02:23 GMT
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Post by Northy on Sept 8, 2016 9:16:34 GMT
The pound is steadily climbing again, it's up nearly 5 cents in the last week
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 9:18:08 GMT
The pound is steadily climbing again, it's up nearly 5 cents in the last week That's little comfort if you want a new iPhone
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Post by Northy on Sept 8, 2016 9:26:19 GMT
The pound is steadily climbing again, it's up nearly 5 cents in the last week That's little comfort if you want a new iPhone Which I don't I was at a conference in London yesterday, one of the topics and presentations was from CBRE (global property giant) they aren't too concerned on brexit and their plans and forecasts to 2020 will be at the same level post brexit as they were before the referendum, albeit onl slightly down a bit this year and next year, but for them it's business as usual Also had a pep talk from this chap www.penhadow.com/ , you ought to be more positive like him, instead of being a negative Robert Peston
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 9:31:39 GMT
That's little comfort if you want a new iPhone Which I don't I was at a conference in London yesterday, one of the topics and presentations was from CBRE (global property giant) they aren't too concerned on brexit and their plans and forecasts to 2020 will be at the same level post brexit as they were before the referendum, albeit onl slightly down a bit this year and next year, but for them it's business as usual Also had a pep talk from this chap www.penhadow.com/ , you ought to be more positive like him, instead of being a negative Robert Peston I'm very positive, but when a landmark retail item that's been at exactly the same price point for over 5 years has now gone up by £100 due directly to market uncertainty over Brexit (Apple UK's words not mine) it's time to be pragmatic
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