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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:16:09 GMT
Aston villa. One of the longest serving top flight English clubs. Trophy room full of silverware.
The majority of their fans are decent and not arrogant. A super old school club.
One bad owner and in a puff of smoke it's all over.......
As Stoke fans we aspire for Europe but i fear we may get too upset if we don't get there, aspire to win a cup but I fear we get too downhearted if we fall slightly short. We are in one of the biggest leagues in world football, continually suprising even ourselves with some fantastic displays and results. Once pc and family go which they eventually will then I hope and pray we continue to be sensible and progressive club with level headed support (in the main) without too much delusion of grandeur. If it can happen to Villa, as leeds forest Sheffield Wednesday and united before them then it can certainly happen to us. Enjoy the ride whilst we are at the top of the drop looking down
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Post by Lesalanos on Feb 14, 2016 18:17:16 GMT
Spot on, great post.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Feb 14, 2016 18:18:26 GMT
To be fair, it's a lesson we learnt years ago.
It'll get everybody eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:19:19 GMT
Whilst we have Peter Coates at the helm I'm not worried about doing a Villa.
The worrying thing would be when he decides enough is enough.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 14, 2016 18:24:36 GMT
This has been coming for 5 years really.
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Post by Do it for dobing on Feb 14, 2016 18:25:12 GMT
John Coates may decide he wants to take over when the time comes he has the experience of working with his Father and a passion for Stoke
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Post by tuum on Feb 14, 2016 18:25:37 GMT
I suspect it was Coates Jnr. who persuaded Peter to get rid of TP and employ Hughes. If so then we are in good hands for another 30 years. (a) He isyounger and (b) he has more money than Sir Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
My fear is that as each new generation of fans will bring with them their own wish list of things stoke need to be. And that wish list will get bigger and more ambitious and ever so slightly less attainable. I guess it's just part of success and something we as a club will have to live with. Just wish we could put old heads on young supporters shoulders at times |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:27:10 GMT
Is Lerner a bad owner. He's chucked a bucket load of money in but made some poor choices re managers and signings
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 14, 2016 18:32:12 GMT
Lerner decided to stop putting money into the club as he was selling and he didn't want to hand over a club whose player assets he had paid for! He's, deliberately out of selfish business ends, done this to Villa! 'Smurf' at the Vale is threatening to do the same as Lerner? As for the Coates family, I hope they stay as Peter himself has said that the years of transfer famine are over.
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Post by Northy on Feb 14, 2016 18:33:37 GMT
Is Lerner a bad owner. He's chucked a bucket load of money in but made some poor choices re managers and signings Yes, he's had the club up for sale for a while and not invested into it, he micro managed the club |
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 14, 2016 18:35:31 GMT
As long as I wake up every morning that's all I worry about
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:36:05 GMT
Is Lerner a bad owner. He's chucked a bucket load of money in but made some poor choices re managers and signings He's quite obviously a shit owner. He's managed to turn Aston Villa into the mess that they are today. |
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Post by Amo on Feb 14, 2016 18:39:19 GMT
Been a succession of very poor managerial appointments over last 5 or do years and purchase of some very poor over rated players.
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Post by Gods on Feb 14, 2016 18:40:51 GMT
It doesn't look pretty but they are not relegated yet of course.
Why didn't they hire Nigel Pearson, he was available at the time wasn't he?
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 14, 2016 18:41:11 GMT
Not nice to see a Midlands club go down , if Birmingham , wolves , forest , Derby , villa etc were in the prem it would be a great league
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Post by kustokie on Feb 14, 2016 18:45:29 GMT
It doesn't look pretty but they are not relegated yet of course. Why didn't they hire Nigel Pearson, he was available at the time wasn't he? Probably because Nigel Pearson's not that daft. He's recognized a toxic workplace and stayed well clear I imagine. |
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Post by Linx on Feb 14, 2016 18:47:50 GMT
Villa hit a Lerner-sponsored peak with MON, when they had Barry, Milner, Young (the England midfield). Lerner was a bit too impatient for success and didn't get the instant rewards for his investment (a Champions League place) so started to sell out the team from under O'Neill's feet. MON threw a strop and left and it was downhill from there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:55:37 GMT
The Villa fans weren't to keen on MON. That always puzzled me at the time.
GD
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:58:37 GMT
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more investment for Stoke from an outside source. With Peter Coates a rock solid benefactor you would think we were a sound investment for the likes of Red Bull or similar.
Just imagine Arni "with wings =)" |
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 14, 2016 18:59:27 GMT
Plucky Stoke should always know their place and never aspire to anything.
You're an owners perfect fan.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 14, 2016 18:59:32 GMT
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more investment for Stoke from an outside source. With Peter Coates a rock solid benefactor you would think we were a sound investment for the likes of Red Bull or similar. And become Red Bull Staffordshire? No thanks. |
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Post by staffsvilla on Feb 14, 2016 19:00:32 GMT
Villa hit a Lerner-sponsored peak with MON, when they had Barry, Milner, Young (the England midfield). Lerner was a bit too impatient for success and didn't get the instant rewards for his investment (a Champions League place) so started to sell out the team from under O'Neill's feet. MON threw a strop and left and it was downhill from there. Partially correct mate,the problem with MON was Lerner let him do all the deals including wages, when we missed out on the top 4 for the 3rd time Lerner looked how many had been bought and paid big money yet not played he told MON sell to buy not once but twice (Jan and may) MON being the arrogant prick that he is didn't sell just sat there till the week before the season and then asked again for money thinking he'd got Lerner over a barrel, Lerner said no, toys out of MON's pram and he quit ! Since then Lerner has employed 'non football' people in key roles to oversee spending which has led to where we are today, since MON we have gone downhill rapido and where it's going to end God knows  |
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Post by salopstick on Feb 14, 2016 19:04:30 GMT
Plucky Stoke should always know their place and never aspire to anything. You're an owners perfect fan. for a team like Stoke prudence and ambition must both be handled carefully |
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Post by potterblade on Feb 14, 2016 19:07:33 GMT
Its also a lesson to squeeze every drop out of the good times. Complacency is not something we suffer from and we have a board, manager and players who look up the table not down.
For as long as we are blessed to have that in place the fans owe it to the club and themselves to do exactly the same and dare to dream.
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Post by Linx on Feb 14, 2016 19:13:59 GMT
Villa hit a Lerner-sponsored peak with MON, when they had Barry, Milner, Young (the England midfield). Lerner was a bit too impatient for success and didn't get the instant rewards for his investment (a Champions League place) so started to sell out the team from under O'Neill's feet. MON threw a strop and left and it was downhill from there. Partially correct mate,the problem with MON was Lerner let him do all the deals including wages, when we missed out on the top 4 for the 3rd time Lerner looked how many had been bought and paid big money yet not played he told MON sell to buy not once but twice (Jan and may) MON being the arrogant prick that he is didn't sell just sat there till the week before the season and then asked again for money thinking he'd got Lerner over a barrel, Lerner said no, toys out of MON's pram and he quit ! Since then Lerner has employed 'non football' people in key roles to oversee spending which has led to where we are today, since MON we have gone downhill rapido and where it's going to end God knows There's a lot of Villa in my family, with my uncle playing for them and all of the Brummie side of my family supporting them. I feel your pain and was genuinely gutted that they just let the Scousers roll them over today. It was game over from the first goal. They had a chance to narrow the gap on the others and could have been a couple of good results away from climbing out of there. But they just didn't turn up. |
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Post by liathroid on Feb 14, 2016 19:17:36 GMT
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Post by deliasmith on Feb 14, 2016 19:36:14 GMT
I draw two conclusions from Villa's degeneration:
1. Don't let Martin O'Neill near a large sum of money. I am a Celtic fan as well as a Stokie, and I loved Martin's time at Celtic -- beating Rangers 6-2 in his first season, great European nights with wins over Barcelona, Juventus, Liverpool, etc. etc. But he spent far too much on transfers and wages and burnt the fingers of the owner, who, ever since Martin left, has run the club on a shoestring. He led Leicester to great things - silverware and fabulous matches at Filbert Street, and left them bankrupt.
2. When things look really bad, when you need to stop the rot and keep your status, the guy you need is about 7 or 8 miles up the road. That's him in the shell suit and baseball cap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 19:40:10 GMT
They are where they are because they've stopped investing. It isn't Rocket Science. You pay peanuts, you get monkey's.
Selling the family silver to pay for a summer of cock arsed spending isn't investing.
That is the real lesson that needs heeding here.
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hoopty
Youth Player
Posts: 431
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Post by hoopty on Feb 14, 2016 20:07:43 GMT
Villa under MoN had one of the highest wage bills in the Prem but failed time and again to get into the Champions league (which would have made the numbers add up).
When Lerner said enough is enough and that the wage bill had to be appropriate to their success on the field they could only sell the sellable - the players everyone wanted because they were very good - but got left with those that no-one wanted (especially as they were on enormous wages). Think Agbonlahor.
So you have this dynamic where you have an underperforming half a squad on crazy wages meaning the rest of the squad had to be bargain basement. You can call them bad managers - Sherwood especially - but I'm not sure anyone could bring success in this situation.
It's sad to see, but Villa possibly need relegation to clear the house and shake off the dead wood.
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