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Post by nietzsche on Feb 17, 2016 22:51:41 GMT
Greece has been shafted by the EU, not just on the economy, but on border control.
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Post by Billy the kid on Feb 18, 2016 0:01:29 GMT
For me I'm out
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 18, 2016 0:26:48 GMT
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 18, 2016 1:06:24 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 18, 2016 1:12:19 GMT
FYI, "Professor Dalgleish" is a member of UKIP and has stood in a by-election for them. So this quote should really be in a party political broadcast, and not a national newspaper.
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Post by britsabroad on Feb 18, 2016 1:45:30 GMT
We need the EU more than it needs us. If we left foreign companies would cease wanting to invest or do business here, either directly or as a route to Europe. We would lose a substantial chunk of London's € trade flow. The pound will crash and everything will become significantly more expensive to buy. We would survive, and get control over our borders, but we'd just become some irrelevant little island off the coast of France. I remember hearing exactly the same 16 years ago when they tried to frighten us into joining the Euro. That was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. Joining something new and leaving something well established is a completely different kettle of fish. I hope the UKIP party line is slightly more well reasoned than that? By the way, EUR now accounts for triple the GBP volume, most of it going through London. Im not arguing for/against the Euro as there is a lot more to it than pure currency, but GBP has declined significantly in importance since the introduction of the Euro. If we were to have joined the Euro and now looking to leave it would be ten times worse.
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Post by mumf on Feb 18, 2016 5:36:45 GMT
There is little doubt that the EU will give us the old shoulder should we decide to leave this once exclusive club. I feel it is now only a matter of time. Camerons negotiating rhetoric is clearly useless and pointless. He is fooling no one.! He cannot win. The odds are stacked against him.
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Post by britsabroad on Feb 18, 2016 5:57:56 GMT
There is little doubt that the EU will give us the old shoulder should we decide to leave this once exclusive club. I feel it is now only a matter of time. Camerons negotiating rhetoric is clearly useless and pointless. He is fooling no one.! He cannot win. The odds are stacked against him. Cameron knows he wins either way. The EU cannot remain fully intact without our contributions. The more it looks like a vote to leave, the more concessions he can get from them, until the point where people will vote to stay in.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 7:25:19 GMT
I will vote out, if cameron gets his deal we will still get shafted further down the line. Our country is in a mess, if we vote out one day i might even be proud to be british.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 18, 2016 8:15:55 GMT
I will vote out, if cameron gets his deal we will still get shafted further down the line. Our country is in a mess, if we vote out one day i might even be proud to be british. It might even mean we are allowed to call ourselves English without some apologist crying racist, will the people of the UK have the backbone to vote out.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 18, 2016 8:18:49 GMT
There is little doubt that the EU will give us the old shoulder should we decide to leave this once exclusive club. I feel it is now only a matter of time. Camerons negotiating rhetoric is clearly useless and pointless. He is fooling no one.! He cannot win. The odds are stacked against him. Cameron knows he wins either way. The EU cannot remain fully intact without our contributions. The more it looks like a vote to leave, the more concessions he can get from them, until the point where people will vote to stay in. So they can not function properly without our contributions but they still insist they dictate to us how we run our own country , well you know what they can fcuk right off.
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Post by desman2 on Feb 18, 2016 9:59:54 GMT
There is little doubt that the EU will give us the old shoulder should we decide to leave this once exclusive club. I feel it is now only a matter of time. Camerons negotiating rhetoric is clearly useless and pointless. He is fooling no one.! He cannot win. The odds are stacked against him. Cameron knows he wins either way. The EU cannot remain fully intact without our contributions. The more it looks like a vote to leave, the more concessions he can get from them, until the point where people will vote to stay in. And then when that happens they will withdraw concessions and wer'e back where we started.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 18, 2016 10:46:44 GMT
Cameron knows he wins either way. The EU cannot remain fully intact without our contributions. The more it looks like a vote to leave, the more concessions he can get from them, until the point where people will vote to stay in. And then when that happens they will withdraw concessions and wer'e back where we started. Which is exactly what will happen, I see some of the member states are not happy that their citizens who have come here to take our jobs will not be able to claim family allowance payments for their children who do not live here, WTF is that about how pathetic are we as a nation we are paying out benefits for kids who do not reside here. Millions of people who have never contributed a penny to this country are eligible to use our NHS free of charge no wonder we are fcuked, we have to vote out there is no other viable option, concessions my hairy English arse stitch up more like.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 18, 2016 15:21:20 GMT
I remember hearing exactly the same 16 years ago when they tried to frighten us into joining the Euro. That was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. Joining something new and leaving something well established is a completely different kettle of fish. I hope the UKIP party line is slightly more well reasoned than that? By the way, EUR now accounts for triple the GBP volume, most of it going through London. Im not arguing for/against the Euro as there is a lot more to it than pure currency, but GBP has declined significantly in importance since the introduction of the Euro. If we were to have joined the Euro and now looking to leave it would be ten times worse. I'm sure the UKIP party line is more reasoned, just I'd hope that the remains line is more reasoned, although I have serious doubts. Euro trade passing through the city has nothing to do with what currency the UK decides to use, just as the increasing trade in the yuan and the city's hopes to increase it further have nothing to do on us using sterling. I rarely see anyone these days saying what a shame it was that we never joined the Euro, most commentators seem to think that it was a bullet dodged. Quite how the Uk would of coped in 2008, with a currency that it couldn't deflate and no central bank to provide QE is anyones guess. Finally, the EU seems hell bent on bringing the city down a peg or two and transferring some of it's importance to Frankfurt and Paris- hence Cameron at least pretending that part of the deal he's secured is to safeguard the future of the city. I fail to understand why the 4th largest (by most measures) economy in the world is not strong enough to make it's own way and create it's own trade agreements with whom ever it chooses. We remain the country with the largest inward investment in Europe (again something we were told would disappear), we have a trade deficit with most countries in the world and our market place remains key to most developed countries (are we still Germany's biggest export market?). Obviously going on recent events Cameron couldn't be trusted to negotiate the buying of a new car, but I'm sure we could find somebody with the nous to find positive trade deals with European, commonwealth and countries further afield.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 18, 2016 15:33:32 GMT
FYI, "Professor Dalgleish" is a member of UKIP and has stood in a by-election for them. So this quote should really be in a party political broadcast, and not a national newspaper. Loosely translated- you don't agree with it, so it shouldn't be printed.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 18, 2016 15:45:37 GMT
FYI, "Professor Dalgleish" is a member of UKIP and has stood in a by-election for them. So this quote should really be in a party political broadcast, and not a national newspaper. Loosely translated- you don't agree with it, so it shouldn't be printed. Accurately translated - "It's worth knowing that his person is a member of a party whose sole objective is to withdraw the UK from the EU and to limit migration, so his views may (not definitely) be slightly biased on this subject".
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 18, 2016 16:27:32 GMT
FYI, "Professor Dalgleish" is a member of UKIP and has stood in a by-election for them. So this quote should really be in a party political broadcast, and not a national newspaper. So should his view be disregarded, or is it what he has actually observed and commented upon has caused him to support UKIP?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 18, 2016 17:14:12 GMT
FYI, "Professor Dalgleish" is a member of UKIP and has stood in a by-election for them. So this quote should really be in a party political broadcast, and not a national newspaper. So should his view be disregarded, or is it what he has actually observed and commented upon has caused him to support UKIP? I'm not disregarding his support of UKIP. He can support whoever the hell he wants - it's a free world. I'm also not particularly disregarding his comments. I just think it's worth noting which political party he belongs to, as I think it's worth knowing when judging his comment.
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Post by mumf on Feb 18, 2016 18:08:08 GMT
There was quite a few polls shown this morning on the BBC and the vast majority found "out " was the verdict .
Some were very close but on this basis it's looking more likely that we will go it alone . Cameron's appeals will fall on deaf ears no matter how up beat he sounds .
You cannot fight a gang of 20 odd on your own and come out smelling of roses .
Personally ...I'm split at the moment .
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 18, 2016 18:18:09 GMT
Can I just ask where our resident Tories stand on all this? (I'm thinking Salop, FYD & Northwich, maybe Gods aswell, I think he's a fully signed up Tory, too?) You've all given 'Just Call Me Dave' the easiest ride ever over all this, does this mean you're just going to do as he tells you & vote 'In', or are you going to realise he's a pathetic excuse of a leader & vote against him?
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 18, 2016 18:25:17 GMT
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Post by mumf on Feb 18, 2016 18:44:30 GMT
Can I just ask where our resident Tories stand on all this? (I'm thinking Salop, FYD & Northwich, maybe Gods aswell, I think he's a fully signed up Tory, too?) You've all given 'Just Call Me Dave' the easiest ride ever over all this, does this mean you're just going to do as he tells you & vote 'In', or are you going to realise he's a pathetic excuse of a leader & vote against him? I don't think it's a party political thread in essence . It's a cross party preference that in the main involves the mass exodus of foreigners into this country and how you as an individual feel about that . Trade and sovereignty obviously also have a part to play but is not the main focus in most people's lives . It's also an indication of how popular Jeremy Corbyns leadership is .....and the least said about that the better .
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 18, 2016 18:59:39 GMT
Which former member are you then? All this new account shit is really boring now. I don't think it's a party political thread in essence . It's a cross party preference that in the main involves the mass exodus of foreigners into this country and how you as an individual feel about that . Trade and sovereignty obviously also have a part to play but is not the main focus in most people's lives . It's also an indication of how popular Jeremy Corbyns leadership is .....and the least said about that the better . Of course it's about which party you 'support', that's why you had to have a dig at Corbyn/Labour. Always the same with Tories, everything the party says/does is 100% perfectly correct in every way possible. Anything the others do, especially Labour, is wrong & is 100% to blame for anything & everything that's wrong in the country. ... So that's why I'd like to hear the fully signed-up Tory members on here speak up. I'm interested to see if they can put the good of the country above their political allegiance. Are they willing to say 'Call Me Dave' is the most pathetic example of a leader we've ever seen & he's happily selling our country down the river, or will they go against their glorious leader & admit he's a bellend & they're voting 'Out'.
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Post by mumf on Feb 18, 2016 19:45:49 GMT
Since when has it been a party political thing ?
I know many people who don't vote at all but will be voting out at the referendum .
I also know of many Labour voters who will vote out because they don't agree with Corbyn or his ideas .
Theres no point in trying to convince yourself to the contrary , especially when Corbyn is the least popular Labour Party leader in history .
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 18, 2016 19:56:07 GMT
Since when has it been a party political thing ? I know many people who don't vote at all but will be voting out at the referendum . I also know of many Labour voters who will vote out because they don't agree with Corbyn or his ideas . Theres no point in trying to convince yourself to the contrary , especially when Corbyn is the least popular Labour Party leader in history . I'm not trying to convince myself about anything, I couldn't give a shit what Corbyn thinks about In/Out as it isn't him who's going around Europe trying to get us a *cough* better deal *cough*. I just want to know where the Tories on here stand. Are they backing their glorious, always right leader & voting 'In', or do they think their leader is wrong & they're voting 'Out'?
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Post by Linx on Feb 18, 2016 20:02:23 GMT
The issue is very, very complex. Most people will vote with a mixture of gut feeling, prejudice, and whatever spin they get from their newspaper of choice.
I don't pretend to be on top of the issues, nor understand the economic issues at stake but if Cameron, with all the informed agencies at his disposal, seems to be pro-Europe, then it makes sense to go with that.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 18, 2016 21:24:40 GMT
Since when has it been a party political thing ? I know many people who don't vote at all but will be voting out at the referendum . I also know of many Labour voters who will vote out because they don't agree with Corbyn or his ideas . Theres no point in trying to convince yourself to the contrary , especially when Corbyn is the least popular Labour Party leader in history . I'm not trying to convince myself about anything, I couldn't give a shit what Corbyn thinks about In/Out as it isn't him who's going around Europe trying to get us a *cough* better deal *cough*. I just want to know where the Tories on here stand. Are they backing their glorious, always right leader & voting 'In', or do they think their leader is wrong & they're voting 'Out'? The only deal he is interested in is for himself and his public schoolboy chums. personally I do not trust the man at all, the tories only and have only ever looked after themselves and the rich something's will never change, we need to stand up to the hierarchy in this country whatever their politics are, they all piss in the same pot and shit all over rest of us. I hope to god the general public vote out of the sham that is the EU.
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Post by Sam on Feb 18, 2016 23:37:46 GMT
From what I can gather voting 'out' means we can run our own country again, our own laws (Does this mean we can fuck that Human Rights shit off & deport foreign criminals?) take back control of our borders (Does this mean we can legally stop all people from coming here?) a nd we stop spunking millions of pounds per day up the wall (I'm sure I read summat about how, erm... I think it was Norway [They're not in the EU, right?] still had to give millions to Europe all the time but had no imput to what went on. Is this what'll happen to us? We still have to pay but have no say, or can we just stop paying?)Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.) Yes I think we have !
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Post by Gods on Feb 19, 2016 0:34:35 GMT
Can I just ask where our resident Tories stand on all this? (I'm thinking Salop, FYD & Northwich, maybe Gods aswell, I think he's a fully signed up Tory, too?) You've all given 'Just Call Me Dave' the easiest ride ever over all this, does this mean you're just going to do as he tells you & vote 'In', or are you going to realise he's a pathetic excuse of a leader & vote against him? I'll be voting to stay in. I don't see it as a party political question or even an issue of the left or the right. I like the free market but not the way the EU is heading towards a single currency and by definition political union. However I suspect if we did attempt to pull out now it would cause political, financial and logistical chaos for decades so I would prefer we try to influence its direction from within. Better to be on the train pissing out than on the platform pissing in
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Post by mumf on Feb 19, 2016 0:51:52 GMT
Can I just ask where our resident Tories stand on all this? (I'm thinking Salop, FYD & Northwich, maybe Gods aswell, I think he's a fully signed up Tory, too?) You've all given 'Just Call Me Dave' the easiest ride ever over all this, does this mean you're just going to do as he tells you & vote 'In', or are you going to realise he's a pathetic excuse of a leader & vote against him? I'll be voting to stay in. I don't see it as a party political question or even an issue of the left or the right. I like the free market but not the way the EU is heading towards a single currency and by definition political union. However I suspect if we did attempt to pull out now it would cause political, financial and logistical chaos for decades so I would prefer we try to influence its direction from within. Better to be on the train pissing out than on the platform pissing in i think think you make a very valid point . A point that I have already touched on in the respect that it's not necessarily a party political one or a left or right one . It's simply what's best for the country left or right . A free vote ....cast the party political shackles aside and vote according to your conscience rather than your chosen political dogma . Dont forget that there are cheaper ways to transport naval personnel around the country than in converted ex trident nuclear subarines .They weren't designed as taxis .
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