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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 17:22:42 GMT
The Ukippers are back with their narrow world view I see. It is a multicultural, global world, get used to it. The internet has revolutionised the world. No room for small town mentalities. In any case the world powers will not let us leave, so it is all hot air. Hard luck. Spot on.. its a multicultural, global world. So why restrict ourselves to our near neighbours on the continent when we could trade and do business with our common wealth partners who reach all the four corners of the globe, the Caribbean, the African nations, Canada, Australia, India and many more, plus other nations. Why restrict our selves to the EU which is ran by Germany when we can be the masters of our own destiny and make our own laws which are in the best interest of the UK and not Brussels. Lets face it, we import more from the EU than we export and they will still do business with us. We just take back control of our laws, human rights, immigration, fisheries and many more. No room for small town mentalities where we are tied to the hip to Brussels, its a big world and the world is not square, you wont fall of the edge once you pass Europe.
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 8, 2016 21:41:53 GMT
The Ukippers are back with their narrow world view I see. It is a multicultural, global world, get used to it. The internet has revolutionised the world. No room for small town mentalities. In any case the world powers will not let us leave, so it is all hot air. Hard luck. Who cares what the people actually want eh? It also demonstrates some true colours here - hoping and wanting for the people's will - if it is shown to be - to be denied. Democracy eh?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 8, 2016 21:56:00 GMT
maybe you should listen to your great leader Farage who is adamant he wants out....but yet was quite happy to take an MEP's wage and the benefits of their monthly allowances whilst not bothering to turn up to actually act as an MEP for anyone Is that fair Mick ? I recall seeing him debating in the euro parliament on many occasions - I'd be very surprised if his attendance record is as poor as the average Kinnock like sponger over there. If it was - the tory rags would surely be on it. This is about the fairest source I could find for Farage's voting record in 2014: factcheckeu.org/factchecks/show/255/nigel-farage (all the rest were either BNP stories or opinion pieces from newspapers). So he doesn't rank very well compared to other MEPs, but there could mitigating circumstances (chairing other committees).
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 8, 2016 22:18:35 GMT
In. The EU is far, far, far, far from perfect. But I'd rather have a faceless bunch of cunts from many different backgrounds making some rules for us, than a faceless bunch of cunts from the English upper class making all the rules for us. Why would you? (genuine question) Normal human behaviour is that people will tend to side with their 'own'. A democracy works at its best when there's as many opposing voices as possible. I think the EU provides that quite nicely. The practicalities mean that there's always things that should be dealt with on a national level, but I don't think the EU does a bad job with the rest. Like I said before, there's a lot wrong with the EU. But in all in all I think it's doing an all right job and certainly something worth sticking at.
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Post by desman2 on Feb 8, 2016 22:39:11 GMT
Why would you? (genuine question) Normal human behaviour is that people will tend to side with their 'own'. A democracy works at its best when there's as many opposing voices as possible. I think the EU provides that quite nicely. The practicalities mean that there's always things that should be dealt with on a national level, but I don't think the EU does a bad job with the rest. Like I said before, there's a lot wrong with the EU. But in all in all I think it's doing an all right job and certainly something worth sticking at. Yes theyve done a great job with our fishing industry. Thousands of jobs gone there. Expensive regulations put on middle and small size businesses. The corporations can afford it. Our inability to set trade agreements with countries outside the EU unless negotiated by a faceless commissioner. Germany's banks and stocks being dragged down the shitter by the wonderful euro. Thats just 4 achievements which are going to screw up ordinary people like us and theirs no accountability. Unlike in a democracy where you fire those who screw up, in this vile setup you cant. The EU is doing a good job for its careerists and big corporations and fuck the rest. Its certainly not a good time to be a female in Europe right now. With the importation of large numbers of primitive creatures from the middle east, theyve more or less dissenfranchised half the population. Of course if it goes no then you are freely welcome to go and live there.
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Post by desman2 on Feb 8, 2016 22:40:42 GMT
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Feb 8, 2016 23:05:24 GMT
I was perfectly happy with with the single market. It's a shame that it's not even an option on the table for us to turn things back to where they were about 10 years ago. So seeing that the choice is to stay in or leave, I'll be voting to leave.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 9, 2016 7:00:34 GMT
Normal human behaviour is that people will tend to side with their 'own'. A democracy works at its best when there's as many opposing voices as possible. I think the EU provides that quite nicely. The practicalities mean that there's always things that should be dealt with on a national level, but I don't think the EU does a bad job with the rest. Like I said before, there's a lot wrong with the EU. But in all in all I think it's doing an all right job and certainly something worth sticking at. Yes theyve done a great job with our fishing industry. Thousands of jobs gone there. Expensive regulations put on middle and small size businesses. The corporations can afford it. Our inability to set trade agreements with countries outside the EU unless negotiated by a faceless commissioner. Germany's banks and stocks being dragged down the shitter by the wonderful euro. Thats just 4 achievements which are going to screw up ordinary people like us and theirs no accountability. Unlike in a democracy where you fire those who screw up, in this vile setup you cant. The EU is doing a good job for its careerists and big corporations and fuck the rest. Its certainly not a good time to be a female in Europe right now. With the importation of large numbers of primitive creatures from the middle east, theyve more or less dissenfranchised half the population. Of course if it goes no then you are freely welcome to go and live there. If the UK government give a fuck about our fishing industry they could've defended it (similar to the French with their farmers). We prioritised a rebate and stopping immigrants getting benefits, because we thought that was the bigger issue. Maybe if we had a government that looked at getting a better deal for Britons over making it worse for everyone else, they could've done something about it. Amazing how we're told that the EU is a strict, binding organisation but when there's a policy that is an instant vote-winner somehow it gets changed. Where exactly am I supposed to go and live by the way? In the EU? I already do.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 7:45:45 GMT
Why would you? (genuine question) Normal human behaviour is that people will tend to side with their 'own'. A democracy works at its best when there's as many opposing voices as possible. I think the EU provides that quite nicely. The practicalities mean that there's always things that should be dealt with on a national level, but I don't think the EU does a bad job with the rest. Like I said before, there's a lot wrong with the EU. But in all in all I think it's doing an all right job and certainly something worth sticking at. Rip Thanks for answering my question. For me though one of the main issues is that the EU is not a democracy. Secondly, It is a constructed enormous unnecessary, self serving organisation which has its own self interest (as an organisation, not the interest of Europe )at heart. I don't think it is doing a good job, not just with reference to Greece, Immigration but other matters. It is not a finished product, and as we move towards "ever closer union" our voice and democracy will reduce.Personally I believe that Germany, encouraged by the deputy head France, will not do the UK any favours. It wil become clear that many of the real economic decisions will be made on the basis of those who belong to the Euro group, which will leave us isolated if we stay in. Of course many of the net financial benefactors will want us in , they need our money. Anyway the debate will continue. Good luck.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Feb 9, 2016 9:17:25 GMT
OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT and never return sink or swim we can do this, if we carry on as we are we will sink anyway under the weight of economic migrants, protect our borders and our children's futures. Racist !!!! edit: but I'm still with you 100% (as some would say) OUT OUT OUT !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 9:30:09 GMT
In. I am fundamentally against isolation and believing that somehow we are better than others. We have greater wealth, therefore contribute more. It's EXACTLY the same as, for example, the income tax rules in this country.
The fact remains, however, that regardless of our status as being in or out of the EU, society will always be divided until the country is run by people who serve the people's interests.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 12:28:55 GMT
In. I am fundamentally against isolation and believing that somehow we are better than others. We have greater wealth, therefore contribute more. It's EXACTLY the same as, for example, the income tax rules in this country. The fact remains, however, that regardless of our status as being in or out of the EU, society will always be divided until the country is run by people who serve the people's interests. Bojan I guess it is a matter of judgement, sometimes it is good to belong, other times best to stand alone if you feel it is the right thing to do --not that leaving the EU means that we would be alone, just free to choose and negotiate, as others have said. It will be fear of the myth of 'not belonging to the group' which will be the biggest factor in keeping us in. Of course the issues you refer to about serving the people's interest remain true, in or out.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 9, 2016 12:47:08 GMT
maybe you should listen to your great leader Farage who is adamant he wants out....but yet was quite happy to take an MEP's wage and the benefits of their monthly allowances whilst not bothering to turn up to actually act as an MEP for anyone You're not playing the man instead of the ball are you **************? Seeing as you raise the point though, I believe that no single politician from any party should sway your decision too much either way. Have a look at how much we pay, what we get in return, what it costs us, what benefits us, etc, etc. and make your own mind up. I have no issue with anyone who wants us to leave the EU standing for the European Parliament, I didn't realise that a prerequisite for the job was to offer your heart and soul to the 4th reich EU. I've no idea how often Farage attends the actual parliament, but I have respect that he's sacrificed a well paid career to do something he believes in for less money, and I'm sure he puts in a fair few hours to that cause. good response to be fair......apart from the fact that i'm not a ************** had been on here for quite a long time before he/they showed up mate!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 12:51:53 GMT
In. I am fundamentally against isolation and believing that somehow we are better than others. We have greater wealth, therefore contribute more. It's EXACTLY the same as, for example, the income tax rules in this country. The fact remains, however, that regardless of our status as being in or out of the EU, society will always be divided until the country is run by people who serve the people's interests. Bojan I guess it is a matter of judgement, sometimes it is good to belong, other times best to stand alone if you feel it is the right thing to do --not that leaving the EU means that we would be alone, just free to choose and negotiate, as others have said. It will be fear of the myth of 'not belonging to the group' which will be the biggest factor in keeping us in.Of course the issues you refer to about serving the people's interest remain true, in or out. Or, like me, people's actual preference to stay in
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 12:53:25 GMT
Bojan I guess it is a matter of judgement, sometimes it is good to belong, other times best to stand alone if you feel it is the right thing to do --not that leaving the EU means that we would be alone, just free to choose and negotiate, as others have said. It will be fear of the myth of 'not belonging to the group' which will be the biggest factor in keeping us in.Of course the issues you refer to about serving the people's interest remain true, in or out. Or, like me, people's actual preference to stay in Of course, sorry, I just believe that the fear factor will be the predominant one, eg Cameron talking about the changes in border control at Calais.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 9, 2016 16:43:45 GMT
Or, like me, people's actual preference to stay in Of course, sorry, I just believe that the fear factor will be the predominant one, eg Cameron talking about the changes in border control at Calais. Ah the old "fear" factor. We had plenty of that up here during the referendum campaign, primarily from the Yes camp. While there were undoubtedly some "fear" tactics used, the SNP ended up labelling every argument against their view as part of a "fear" campaign. I hope that the EU referendum campaigning doesn't fall into the same trap - from both sides!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 9, 2016 18:06:55 GMT
Frigging Europe and its enlightened worker’s rights and stuff or good old Tory Blighty with its repressive Trade Union Bill, shitting on workers rights?
If you're a working man faced with 5 more years of these pernicious cunts hammering you in to the floor, staying in Europe may give you the only access to social justice left.
Fucking IN!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 18:23:57 GMT
Of course, sorry, I just believe that the fear factor will be the predominant one, eg Cameron talking about the changes in border control at Calais. Ah the old "fear" factor. We had plenty of that up here during the referendum campaign, primarily from the Yes camp. While there were undoubtedly some "fear" tactics used, the SNP ended up labelling every argument against their view as part of a "fear" campaign. I hope that the EU referendum campaigning doesn't fall into the same trap - from both sides! I think it might Patrick
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 18:33:18 GMT
The Socialist Tony Benn makes a good observation
This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; the whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody...My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it. There is no real benefit for Britain.Diary entry (18 June 1974), quoted fromAgainst the Tide. Diaries 1973-1976(London: Hutchinson, 1989), p. 180, p. 182.Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 18:35:37 GMT
And continued:
Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975),
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Post by yeswilko on Feb 9, 2016 18:53:04 GMT
Definitely in. Be interesting to find out how signing players and getting work permits etc would be affected if we left.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 19:12:35 GMT
EU Puts The Boot Into Steelworkers FEB 2016 Tuesday 2ND posted by Morning Star in Features The European Union has forbidden member governments from financially supporting their steel industries – spelling job losses and community devastation for thousands, says LAURENCE PLATT THERE will be many in the labour movement, who while seeking effective ways to fight the continuing deindustrialisation of the British economy, still cling desperately to the notion that our membership of the EU is somehow or other a guarantee of jobs, even when those jobs are fast disappearing before their very eyes. Such is the case with the steel industry. Any notion of “social Europe” coming to the rescue should have finally been dispelled in early 2012 when Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank, was able to assure US bankers and investors that “social Europe is already dead.” Just how dead is now being demonstrated by the European Commission ignoring millions of citizens across the EU who do not wish to see TTIP imposed on member states with all the implications for our public services and is now dramatically underlined by recent EU statements on governmental support for the beleaguered steel industry. Margrethe Vestager, the Danish politician in charge of EU competition policy, has just announced that member governments cannot financially support their steel industries. Belgium has been ordered to claw back £162 million given to steelmakers Duferco and is launching an investigation into the €2 billion state support given by the Italian government to Ilva, one of the biggest steelmakers in Europe. This comes at a time when the EU, with the support of our Tory government, is considering granting China market economy status. There can be no outcome to this other than the destruction of steelmaking in Britain, and indeed across much of Europe, with the attendant job losses and and massive damage to communities. In the sights of the EU are steelmakers in Italy and Belgium which have received financial support from from their respective governments. The British government is not mentioned in this latest outburst from the EU for the simple reason that it has done nothing in the face of the crisis facing steel production here. Those of my friends who still think that EU membership benefits workers and the economy in Britain will need to study what the EU is actually doing here.
And the article continues....
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 9, 2016 19:15:57 GMT
And continued: Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975), Two things strike me from this; 1) Project Fear is nothing new in referendums! 2) Leaving the "common market" is more likely to trigger independence in Scotland than being part of it (not certain of course, but the SNP will use a Brexit vote to have another vote up here and their chances of success will be considerably higher than first time round) BTW - it should be said Benn did understand the direction of travel for Europe very well. I don't think we've reached the point he is saying above I've a complete surrender of sovereignty.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2016 19:31:49 GMT
And continued: Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975), Two things strike me from this; 1) Project Fear is nothing new in referendums! 2) Leaving the "common market" is more likely to trigger independence in Scotland than being part of it (not certain of course, but the SNP will use a Brexit vote to have another vote up here and their chances of success will be considerably higher than first time round) BTW - it should be said Benn did understand the direction of travel for Europe very well. I don't think we've reached the point he is saying above I've a complete surrender of sovereignty. As I said earlier fear will play a large factor but I think that it always favours the argument to stay with the devil you ( think) you know ie I believe it will be used moreso by those arguing to stay in, because to leave obviously incurs alot of change. People can be frightened into fearing the unknown, and it is always perceived to be a more frightening stance to be alone, apart from the group. I also think that you are right about Scotland. Personally I think that they will be independent within 25 years in any case. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the UK react if the EU vote is to stay in , significantly determined by the Scottish vote.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 9, 2016 19:35:11 GMT
Out! Why the hell are we letting the EU tell us what laws we can and can't enforce when it's on our constitution that law was born!
I'd like to see an out side party try to tell the Americans what they can and can't do.
Just look at the Euro and what a great success that is!
Oh and i thought this was a thread about the oaki-koki!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 9, 2016 21:53:04 GMT
From what I can gather voting 'out' means we can run our own country again, our own laws (Does this mean we can fuck that Human Rights shit off & deport foreign criminals?) take back control of our borders (Does this mean we can legally stop all people from coming here?) a nd we stop spunking millions of pounds per day up the wall (I'm sure I read summat about how, erm... I think it was Norway [They're not in the EU, right?] still had to give millions to Europe all the time but had no imput to what went on. Is this what'll happen to us? We still have to pay but have no say, or can we just stop paying?)Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.)
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Post by Billybigbollox on Feb 9, 2016 21:57:43 GMT
Out. On the very rare occasions that the supercilious wankers that we elect actually ask our opinion on anything we owe it to ourselves to stick it up them. None of the popular parties truly represent what the people of England think. They should be trying to persuade us of the benefits of staying in or leaving the EU, but I don't think that they are capable of serious debate on the subject. They all want to fill us full of propaganda and bullshit. Nothing has changed since the spin of Blair. For spin also read Bollocks. What we should ask ourselves is not anything to do with immigration or any of that crap, but whether we really want closer integration with Europe. Look at how the concept of the EEC has changed since the 70's to what it is now. Did anyone really vote for this? I don't think so. I just think that most people in England don't really give a fuck about Europe, but they certainly don't want a Federal State of Europe and if we stay in that's certainly what we'll get. It's not all about where we are now, but where it's all going. Do we want to be an independent and proud nation or do we want to be a part of the United States of Europe? That is the real issue.
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Post by desman2 on Feb 9, 2016 22:01:37 GMT
EU Puts The Boot Into Steelworkers FEB 2016 Tuesday 2ND posted by Morning Star in Features The European Union has forbidden member governments from financially supporting their steel industries – spelling job losses and community devastation for thousands, says LAURENCE PLATT THERE will be many in the labour movement, who while seeking effective ways to fight the continuing deindustrialisation of the British economy, still cling desperately to the notion that our membership of the EU is somehow or other a guarantee of jobs, even when those jobs are fast disappearing before their very eyes. Such is the case with the steel industry. Any notion of “social Europe” coming to the rescue should have finally been dispelled in early 2012 when Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank, was able to assure US bankers and investors that “social Europe is already dead.” Just how dead is now being demonstrated by the European Commission ignoring millions of citizens across the EU who do not wish to see TTIP imposed on member states with all the implications for our public services and is now dramatically underlined by recent EU statements on governmental support for the beleaguered steel industry. Margrethe Vestager, the Danish politician in charge of EU competition policy, has just announced that member governments cannot financially support their steel industries. Belgium has been ordered to claw back £162 million given to steelmakers Duferco and is launching an investigation into the €2 billion state support given by the Italian government to Ilva, one of the biggest steelmakers in Europe. This comes at a time when the EU, with the support of our Tory government, is considering granting China market economy status. There can be no outcome to this other than the destruction of steelmaking in Britain, and indeed across much of Europe, with the attendant job losses and and massive damage to communities. In the sights of the EU are steelmakers in Italy and Belgium which have received financial support from from their respective governments. The British government is not mentioned in this latest outburst from the EU for the simple reason that it has done nothing in the face of the crisis facing steel production here. Those of my friends who still think that EU membership benefits workers and the economy in Britain will need to study what the EU is actually doing here. And the article continues.... The thing is, stories like this dont make the mainstream media, which means all our in friends dont see them and realise that the workers so called rights mean jack shit and can be removed as quick as they were added.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 10, 2016 7:06:04 GMT
I'm very interested to see how the "In" camp present a positive picture of Europe because the "Out" folk have got no end of ammunition to use thanks to decades of arrogance and complacency from Brussels and Strasbourg - for example the scandalous Common Agriculture Policy.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 10, 2016 8:26:39 GMT
From what I can gather voting 'out' means we can run our own country again, our own laws (Does this mean we can fuck that Human Rights shit off & deport foreign criminals?) take back control of our borders (Does this mean we can legally stop all people from coming here?) a nd we stop spunking millions of pounds per day up the wall (I'm sure I read summat about how, erm... I think it was Norway [They're not in the EU, right?] still had to give millions to Europe all the time but had no imput to what went on. Is this what'll happen to us? We still have to pay but have no say, or can we just stop paying?)Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.) Leaving would involve the British invoking Article 50. Theres lots on the web about it. blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100026967/leaving-the-eu-how-article-50-could-make-the-divorce-very-tricky-for-britain/In short nobody really knows, due in a large part Cameron admitting that the civil service have made zero preparations for Britain voting out (says a lot I suppose). I see it that the British government would have to negotiate their own deal, which going on Camerons latest attempts might not be the best. With the trade deficit we operate with across the EU, any negotiating team should (bar perhaps the present one) be able to sort something acceptable to both sides, remembering that our market place is just as important to them.
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