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Post by desman2 on Feb 10, 2016 11:47:20 GMT
Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.) Leaving would involve the British invoking Article 50. Theres lots on the web about it. blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100026967/leaving-the-eu-how-article-50-could-make-the-divorce-very-tricky-for-britain/In short nobody really knows, due in a large part Cameron admitting that the civil service have made zero preparations for Britain voting out (says a lot I suppose). I see it that the British government would have to negotiate their own deal, which going on Camerons latest attempts might not be the best. With the trade deficit we operate with across the EU, any negotiating team should (bar perhaps the present one) be able to sort something acceptable to both sides, remembering that our market place is just as important to them. Cameron would be finished as a prime minister if we voted out. How could he have the confidence to negotiate anything if he failed to convince any yes vote
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 13:27:29 GMT
Upto now, definitely out.
I think the out brigade's thought on this is that the uk could have its own personalised deal in place (as opposed to following Norway deal) The thought is that our economy puts us in a much better position when doing any future deals, and of course, as has been mentioned, we will also have our friends in the commonwealth:- India, Canada, Australia. Then we have / USA/ China etc to finally be allowed play ball with too. In my opinion, those that say it is a backwards step. Well that is only true if you are looking no further than the Brussels bubble.
Starting life out of the EU would be hard But we would be in control of our destiny A government in place that we can put there, and that we can remove. My worry with being chained to the EU is having a group of people (some with questionable backgrounds) at the top table and that CANNOT be voted out. Surely that goes against everything the UK stands for?
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Post by redstriper on Feb 10, 2016 14:05:20 GMT
Leaving would involve the British invoking Article 50. Theres lots on the web about it. blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100026967/leaving-the-eu-how-article-50-could-make-the-divorce-very-tricky-for-britain/In short nobody really knows, due in a large part Cameron admitting that the civil service have made zero preparations for Britain voting out (says a lot I suppose). I see it that the British government would have to negotiate their own deal, which going on Camerons latest attempts might not be the best. With the trade deficit we operate with across the EU, any negotiating team should (bar perhaps the present one) be able to sort something acceptable to both sides, remembering that our market place is just as important to them. Cameron would be finished as a prime minister if we voted out. How could he have the confidence to negotiate anything if he failed to convince any yes vote would be no bad thing - if he was replaced with someone with principals and cross party respect. Like this man. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davis_(British_politician)
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 10, 2016 14:16:26 GMT
Cameron would be finished as a prime minister if we voted out. How could he have the confidence to negotiate anything if he failed to convince any yes vote would be no bad thing - if he was replaced with someone with principals and cross party respect. Like this man. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davis_(British_politician)I must admit, he does come across very well when ever I've seen him speak. It's a shame he narrowly lost out to the smarmy git in the last Tory leadership election. I think Davis would have done at least as well as Cameron in the last couple of elections.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 10, 2016 14:18:13 GMT
Leaving would involve the British invoking Article 50. Theres lots on the web about it. blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100026967/leaving-the-eu-how-article-50-could-make-the-divorce-very-tricky-for-britain/In short nobody really knows, due in a large part Cameron admitting that the civil service have made zero preparations for Britain voting out (says a lot I suppose). I see it that the British government would have to negotiate their own deal, which going on Camerons latest attempts might not be the best. With the trade deficit we operate with across the EU, any negotiating team should (bar perhaps the present one) be able to sort something acceptable to both sides, remembering that our market place is just as important to them. Cameron would be finished as a prime minister if we voted out. How could he have the confidence to negotiate anything if he failed to convince any yes vote He's not going to be PM in 2020 so not sure how winning or losing any EU vote makes any difference to him as PM.
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Post by mozzer68 on Feb 10, 2016 15:08:52 GMT
OUT
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 10, 2016 17:18:56 GMT
Cameron would be finished as a prime minister if we voted out. How could he have the confidence to negotiate anything if he failed to convince any yes vote He's not going to be PM in 2020 so not sure how winning or losing any EU vote makes any difference to him as PM. I'm guessing the point is if the vote takes place in July this year and he loses he won't be PM come August 2016. Which is fair enough.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 10, 2016 17:24:00 GMT
And continued: Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975), Two things strike me from this; 1) Project Fear is nothing new in referendums! 2) Leaving the "common market" is more likely to trigger independence in Scotland than being part of it (not certain of course, but the SNP will use a Brexit vote to have another vote up here and their chances of success will be considerably higher than first time round) BTW - it should be said Benn did understand the direction of travel for Europe very well. I don't think we've reached the point he is saying above I've a complete surrender of sovereignty. PP, I think you're right with point one but I don't see a Brexit automatically triggering another Scottish independence referendum. I don't see the chances of success being any higher either. An interesting piece in the Telegraph shows just how lucky Scotland was by voting to stay. Madrid countered a unilaterally proposed vote on independence in Catalonia by saying that because a successful departure would impact the whole country then it should be for the whole country to decide. A vote on Scottish independence by the whole of the UK. Seems fair.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 10, 2016 17:40:09 GMT
He's not going to be PM in 2020 so not sure how winning or losing any EU vote makes any difference to him as PM. I'm guessing the point is if the vote takes place in July this year and he loses he won't be PM come August 2016. Which is fair enough. It's not going to be a whipped vote so I'm not sure it will pan out like that, if he was going to lead the stay campaign and then lose maybe but as far as i'm aware he's not going too.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 10, 2016 18:09:51 GMT
Two things strike me from this; 1) Project Fear is nothing new in referendums! 2) Leaving the "common market" is more likely to trigger independence in Scotland than being part of it (not certain of course, but the SNP will use a Brexit vote to have another vote up here and their chances of success will be considerably higher than first time round) BTW - it should be said Benn did understand the direction of travel for Europe very well. I don't think we've reached the point he is saying above I've a complete surrender of sovereignty. PP, I think you're right with point one but I don't see a Brexit automatically triggering another Scottish independence referendum. I don't see the chances of success being any higher either. An interesting piece in the Telegraph shows just how lucky Scotland was by voting to stay. Madrid countered a unilaterally proposed vote on independence in Catalonia by saying that because a successful departure would impact the whole country then it should be for the whole country to decide. A vote on Scottish independence by the whole of the UK. Seems fair. We will have to wait and see. I only really mentionend it in response to a Tony Benn quote on Europe. I don't think what the Scots may or may not in the event of an out vote will have any influence on the European referendum. Folk, I'm sure, will vote on what they see as best in relation to Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 15:48:13 GMT
Out.
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Post by SCFC92 on Feb 11, 2016 16:17:31 GMT
In.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 21:44:15 GMT
From what I can gather voting 'out' means we can run our own country again, our own laws (Does this mean we can fuck that Human Rights shit off & deport foreign criminals?) take back control of our borders (Does this mean we can legally stop all people from coming here?) a nd we stop spunking millions of pounds per day up the wall (I'm sure I read summat about how, erm... I think it was Norway [They're not in the EU, right?] still had to give millions to Europe all the time but had no imput to what went on. Is this what'll happen to us? We still have to pay but have no say, or can we just stop paying?)Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.) " Norway is a quasi-associate-member of the EU. After Brexit, the UK will be an independent nation, like Canada or the USA or China or South Korea. "
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Post by felonious on Feb 12, 2016 16:14:01 GMT
Has every fucker got me on ignore? I've these same questions a dozen times on these kind of threads & not a single person has ever answered them. (especially the Italitc underlined bit.) " Norway is a quasi-associate-member of the EU. After Brexit, the UK will be an independent nation, like Canada or the USA or China or South Korea. " .....or North Korea.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 17:39:05 GMT
" Norway is a quasi-associate-member of the EU. After Brexit, the UK will be an independent nation, like Canada or the USA or China or South Korea. " .....or North Korea. Could be worse.
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 12, 2016 20:10:07 GMT
Shake it all about
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Post by felonious on Feb 17, 2016 10:39:19 GMT
Emma Thompson intervenes....from Reuters.
British actress Emma Thompson got political on Tuesday -- voicing her opinion that it would be the wrong choice for Britain not to vote to stay in the European Union in the UK's upcoming referendum. SOUNDBITE, Emma Thompson, actress, saying (English): " So of course I'm going to vote to stay in Europe, are you kidding? Oh my God, of course. It would be madness not to, that' s a crazy idea not to. We should be taking down borders, not putting them up." Speaking at a press conference at the Berlin Film Festival, Thompson, who lives in London, also had some choice words aboout her home country. SOUNDBITE, Emma Thompson, actress, saying (English): "I'm living in Europe, of course, as it were. Well, a tiny little cloud-bolted, rainy corner of sort-of Europe, I mean really not...A sort of, you know, cake-filled misery-laden grey old island." Britain could hold a referendum on membership of the European Union within a few months
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Post by starkiller on Feb 17, 2016 10:56:18 GMT
The EU Parliament is a sham as the decisions are made elsewhere.
And the fact the British PM has to go cap in hand to beg for some pointless deal tells you all you need to know.
When we vote out, the international money crime syndicate will turn the financial screw like they do to any country that doesn't play ball.
In reality, I expect little to change in regard of who owns us as the British political Establishment are all bought and paid for by the same elite.
With regards to the vote, I expect a very good many of those not registered (numbering many millions) will be those who would vote out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 12:34:08 GMT
The EU Parliament is a sham as the decisions are made elsewhere. And the fact the British PM has to go cap in hand to beg for some pointless deal tells you all you need to know. When we vote out, the international money crime syndicate will turn the financial screw like they do to any country that doesn't play ball. In reality, I expect little to change in regard of who owns us as the British political Establishment are all bought and paid for by the same elite. With regards to the vote, I expect a very good many of those not registered (numbering many millions) will be those who would vote out. You make some very good points there. You are basically saying, we are damned if we do stay in and damned if we don't. As a Brit I feel one of the few things we have left is 'The Vote.' So I'll be using it before even that has been taken from us.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 17, 2016 12:46:21 GMT
The sham goes on. How Cameron knows he can get an acceptable deal (to him anyway) by Friday is beyond me. It seems to me that he'll portray it as an up all night hard won deal that's great for Britain. In reality it will be a non legally binding waste of paper offering a few crumbs for a couple of years and will give nothing like the returning of powers to Westminster that he promised at the start, where he did say (sorry lie) that if he didn't get a deal that was acceptable he'd be campaigning for out.
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Post by britsabroad on Feb 17, 2016 16:49:02 GMT
We need the EU more than it needs us. If we left foreign companies would cease wanting to invest or do business here, either directly or as a route to Europe. We would lose a substantial chunk of London's € trade flow. The pound will crash and everything will become significantly more expensive to buy.
We would survive, and get control over our borders, but we'd just become some irrelevant little island off the coast of France.
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Post by cymap on Feb 17, 2016 17:41:32 GMT
The EU sells significantly more goods etc to us than we do them . They need us far more than we need them, hence this pantomime we have going on at the moment. The choice is simple, if you want political rule via the EU then vote in . If you want our own political rule then vote out because this trade and jobs scaremongering won't ever happen.
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Post by bubbleblower on Feb 17, 2016 19:21:59 GMT
Out
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Post by boothenboy75 on Feb 17, 2016 20:06:23 GMT
We need the EU more than it needs us. If we left foreign companies would cease wanting to invest or do business here, either directly or as a route to Europe. We would lose a substantial chunk of London's € trade flow. The pound will crash and everything will become significantly more expensive to buy. We would survive, and get control over our borders, but we'd just become some irrelevant little island off the coast of France. I remember hearing exactly the same 16 years ago when they tried to frighten us into joining the Euro. That was bollocks then and it's bollocks now.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2016 20:17:21 GMT
We need the EU more than it needs us. If we left foreign companies would cease wanting to invest or do business here, either directly or as a route to Europe. We would lose a substantial chunk of London's € trade flow. The pound will crash and everything will become significantly more expensive to buy. We would survive, and get control over our borders, but we'd just become some irrelevant little island off the coast of France. I remember hearing exactly the same 16 years ago when they tried to frighten us into joining the Euro. That was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. Time the British public grew a pair and vote with their hearts, we need to get out of the EU as soon as possible and regain what identity we actually still have as a race, it may no be easy to start with but having suffered years of austerity and mass immigration could it be any worse, vote for change.
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Post by harryburrows on Feb 17, 2016 21:14:25 GMT
I've asked on here before as I'm not really up-to-speed with all this political bollocks, but what benefits do we get by staying in? From what I can gather voting 'out' means we can run our own country again, our own laws (Does this mean we can fuck that Human Rights shit off & deport foreign criminals?) take back control of our borders (Does this mean we can legally stop all people from coming here?) and we stop spunking millions of pounds per day up the wall (I'm sure I read summat about how, erm... I think it was Norway [They're not in the EU, right?] still had to give millions to Europe all the time but had no imput to what went on. Is this what'll happen to us? We still have to pay but have no say, or can we just stop paying?) The 'in' vote seems to consist of rich wankers, sorry, bankers, saying it's the best thing ever. (Are there any genuine positives at all from staying in?) They also have to comply with EU legislation
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2016 21:20:51 GMT
Time the British public grew a pair and vote with their hearts, we need to get out of the EU as soon as possible and regain what identity we actually still have as a race, it may no be easy to start with but having suffered years of austerity and mass immigration could it be any worse, vote for change. "Regain what identity we actually still have as a race"? Oh dear me Massive apologies I obviously meant Retain, I must try harder Sir my dyslexia is a little restrictive though.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2016 22:12:08 GMT
Massive apologies I obviously meant Retain, I must try harder Sir my dyslexia is a little restrictive though. Why are you addressing me as Sir, you got me mixed up with someone else? Obviously not Sir , I have no time for posters with more than one identity so for that reason I am out
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Post by nietzsche on Feb 17, 2016 22:46:47 GMT
If a person in say Spain or Greece or Romania had cancer , could they come to the UK and be treated for free?
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Post by nietzsche on Feb 17, 2016 22:48:27 GMT
If Turkey joins the EU there should be some fun.
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