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Post by chrisparker on Feb 3, 2016 23:28:46 GMT
Now first of all, let me make something very clear, I'm not one of those gloom & doom naysayers, moaning about some of our performances in the last few weeks. Any club would suffer if they were in our position at the moment. (5 centre backs at the club & 4 of them are injured at the same time?, And that too during the most important period when we play against the likes of Leicester, Liverpool, Palace & United? That's just tough luck.) But apparently Wolly, Cameron & Shawcross will all be back within the next few weeks, so that's good. I still think that we can achieve our highest premier league point tally this season & push for the top 7 but only if we resolve some of the problems in the current squad.
For instance take a look at Affelay. Ever since he found his way into the starting 11 (i.e. against Man City), what exactly has he contributed? He hasn't been involved in a single goal we've scored (aside from that Norwich own goal, which let's be honest, was a dreadful mistake), in fact offensively, he hasn't really contributed much at all. But what bothers me is that he's also not tracking his runners like Whelan. He does a lot of work in pressing the opposition but that's no use when you're not tracking back to defend. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing the lad, I'm just trying to look at his contribution objectively. Affelay is basically doing what Bojan does, except he's doing it deeper in midfield & to less effect. He's clearly not playing in his natural position & I think Hughes has realised this which is why he's signed Imbula. Yet for some reason I keep hearing that he's been our best player in past few weeks. Now I personally don't understand why people feel that way but even if they did I think this reflects very poorly on the rest of the squad. Our best player is someone who doesn't track his runners, who hasn't scored a single goal & who hasn't created a single goal-scoring opportunity.
So the question is what exactly does he do? Now most Stoke fans have reliably informed me that he does what Nzonzi used to do - i.e. releases pressure & helps maintain possession. Now if that's what people think he's doing, he's certainly not doing very good job. In fact, if anything, Affelay just puts additional pressure on the back 4 with his plethora of back passes (quite akin to Whelan) & he certainly doesn't have the presence that Nzonzi did. And what made Nzonzi such an integral part of Hughes' squad was that he could pick up the ball in the middle of the park & drive play forward a good 15-20 yards. I've never seen Affelay do anything of the sort (probably another reason why Hughes went after Imbula). Yesterday against United, our attack & defence were so far apart that Bojan had to come back a good 30 yards to collect the ball from the back 4. And this really hinders our creativity in front of goal.
But with that being said our possession stats have increased significantly since Affelay entered the squad. But is that really a good thing? All of our best performances (Southampton, Man City, Man United, Everton) have been a result of us, countering teams with blistering pace & agility, not the slow buildup play we're witnessing at the moment. I've sort of given Shaqiri a hard time for the last few weeks when he has severely underperformed but with all due respect, Shaqiri, on his day, is a match winner & he has already proven that this season (same goes for Bojan & Arnautovic). I just don't see that quality in Affelay & he's the player I'd be tempted to drop whenever Imbula is match fit (which is hopefully this weekend). If Affelay is to play, he should play in Bojan's position where he's not a defensive liability.
What do you think?
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Post by cooper67 on Feb 3, 2016 23:34:31 GMT
He does play a lot of sideways and backwards passes.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 3, 2016 23:36:21 GMT
He needs to quicken his play up, drive forward and improve his shooting. His shooting is awful.
Good player though and good competition.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 3, 2016 23:37:40 GMT
I don't get where you're coming from Chris.
He had a poor game last night but for the most part, since he moved to midfield, he's been excellent.
He gets on the ball, pivots in a flash and is off past two or three players, turning defence into attack, easing the pressure, getting us moving.
He barely wastes a pass - yeah, a lot of times they're simple balls - guess what, that's a lot of what being a midfield player is. It can't always go forward, especially when your forward players are standing their scratching their arse a lot of the time with three men round them.
He has played some fantastic through balls into the channels as well.
He's a class act now he's found his feet.
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Post by chopperscfc on Feb 3, 2016 23:40:45 GMT
He's not a centre midfielder, simple as that. He's basically filled in until we've signed someone like imbula, now he's here I can see afellay moving into the wing options.
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Post by chrisparker on Feb 3, 2016 23:43:41 GMT
He's not a centre midfielder, simple as that. He's basically filled in until we've signed someone like imbula, now he's here I can see afellay moving into the wing options. Yeah but he doesn't have the pace to play in the wings either.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 3, 2016 23:44:42 GMT
He's not a centre midfielder, simple as that. He's basically filled in until we've signed someone like imbula, now he's here I can see afellay moving into the wing options. He's way more of a central midfielder than a winger!
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Post by muglump on Feb 3, 2016 23:45:41 GMT
He's not a centre midfielder, simple as that. He's basically filled in until we've signed someone like imbula, now he's here I can see afellay moving into the wing options. Yeah but he doesn't have the pace to play in the wings either. Player of the season so far. That what he offers?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 3, 2016 23:49:28 GMT
Yeah but he doesn't have the pace to play in the wings either. Player of the season so far. That what he offers? He is? It's true though, he doesn't do that much all told! I love what he does but we need more in there! Hence we've signed Imbula.
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Macko
Youth Player
Posts: 467
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Post by Macko on Feb 4, 2016 0:28:54 GMT
My reply is a little shorter: FFS Seriously??
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 0:30:30 GMT
Naturally he's a winger/attacking midfielder.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 0:32:51 GMT
Naturally he's a winger/attacking midfielder. He offered even less in both of those roles for us.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 4, 2016 0:41:51 GMT
I think he's done well in that central role much better than most of us thought. He isn't a winger though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 0:48:07 GMT
I think he's done well in that central role much better than most of us thought. He isn't a winger though. He's been a revelation there but we need better and someone that offers more.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 0:50:36 GMT
Naturally he's a winger/attacking midfielder. He offered even less in both of those roles for us. Yeah he was really given a chance.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 4, 2016 0:52:56 GMT
I think he's done well in that central role much better than most of us thought. He isn't a winger though. He's been a revelation there but we need better and someone that offers more. I agree, He doesn't quite give you that presence that you need in midfield. I'm hoping Imbula will give us that. I also read that Imbula has created a chance a game this season, so it will good too see him play Saturday.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 0:53:25 GMT
He offered even less in both of those roles for us. Yeah he was really given a chance. Considering those are meant to be his positions he showed nothing. He was and is too slow for the wing. And when he played further up the pitch he barely created a thing and couldn't shoot. He's a neat, tidy little player and I like that but we need more. Good squad player.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 4, 2016 0:53:45 GMT
I've not read all that sorry, so I'll just answer the headline, for me he's a solid all rounder, keeps it neat and tidy, lacks a bit of a cutting edge to be an attacking mid for me and hes never once looked like winger since he got here.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 4, 2016 0:55:13 GMT
Yeah but he doesn't have the pace to play in the wings either. Player of the season so far. That what he offers? Not a chance.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 0:58:13 GMT
Yeah he was really given a chance. Considering those are meant to be his positions he showed nothing. He was and is too slow for the wing. And when he played further up the pitch he barely created a thing and couldn't shoot. He's a neat, tidy little player and I like that but we need more. Good squad player. Showed about as much as Arnautovic when he was first here. I don't like to judge him so soon in those positions. It sill seems weird to play him alongside Whelan.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 1:02:16 GMT
Considering those are meant to be his positions he showed nothing. He was and is too slow for the wing. And when he played further up the pitch he barely created a thing and couldn't shoot. He's a neat, tidy little player and I like that but we need more. Good squad player. Showed about as much as Arnautovic when he was first here. I don't like to judge him so soon in those positions. It sill seems weird to play him alongside Whelan. Disagree massively! Arnie always had that swagger, pace and you could see that he was a good player, well I did anyway! I think it made sense, he was showing his passing range was good for that position and it is. He just still needs to offer more in terms of splitting defences, goals etc.
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Post by generationex on Feb 4, 2016 1:05:37 GMT
He's a neat and tidy player - but lacks the engine, aggression and defensive positional sense to be at the heart of midfield. Probably not what he was bought for to be fair to him.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 1:05:54 GMT
Showed about as much as Arnautovic when he was first here. I don't like to judge him so soon in those positions. It sill seems weird to play him alongside Whelan. Disagree massively! Arnie always had that swagger, pace and you could see that he was a good player, well I did anyway! I think it made sense, he was showing his passing range was good for that position and it is. He just still needs to offer more in terms of splitting defences, goals etc. Arnie was very slow on the ball, almost at walking pace, his shot was absolutely terrible. Out of all the Stoke players I've seen shoot I would say Arnautovic is one of the most inconsistent and I'm a big fan of Arnautovic. Yes you could see he was a good player, we stuck with it and he's improved massively. Afellay is without a doubt the best player on the ball in our club at the moment. Give him his chance on the wing and he will prove that he can play there too. I used to watch him at PSV and he would rip people a new arsehole nearly every game.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 4, 2016 1:06:10 GMT
Considering those are meant to be his positions he showed nothing. He was and is too slow for the wing. And when he played further up the pitch he barely created a thing and couldn't shoot. He's a neat, tidy little player and I like that but we need more. Good squad player. Showed about as much as Arnautovic when he was first here. I don't like to judge him so soon in those positions. It sill seems weird to play him alongside Whelan. He isn't a winger, he's showed no glimpses of being a winger.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 4, 2016 1:06:57 GMT
Disagree massively! Arnie always had that swagger, pace and you could see that he was a good player, well I did anyway! I think it made sense, he was showing his passing range was good for that position and it is. He just still needs to offer more in terms of splitting defences, goals etc. Arnie was very slow on the ball, almost at walking pace, his shot was absolutely terrible. Out of all the Stoke players I've seen shoot I would say Arnautovic is one of the most inconsistent and I'm a big fan of Arnautovic. Yes you could see he was a good player, we stuck with it and he's improved massively. Afellay is without a doubt the best player on the ball in our club at the moment. Give him his chance on the wing and he will prove that he can play there too. I used to watch him at PSV and he would rip people a new arsehole nearly every game. Mate those PSV days are long gone, I like Afellay but he isn't that player now.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 1:07:57 GMT
Showed about as much as Arnautovic when he was first here. I don't like to judge him so soon in those positions. It sill seems weird to play him alongside Whelan. He isn't a winger, he's showed no glimpses of being a winger. He's hardly even played there. I can absolutely promise you Afellay is a winger through and through and a great attacking midfield player.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 4, 2016 1:08:34 GMT
He isn't a winger, he's showed no glimpses of being a winger. He's hardly even played there. I can absolutely promise you Afellay is a winger through and through and a great attacking midfield player. The old Afellay yes but those injuries have taken there toll.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 1:08:49 GMT
Disagree massively! Arnie always had that swagger, pace and you could see that he was a good player, well I did anyway! I think it made sense, he was showing his passing range was good for that position and it is. He just still needs to offer more in terms of splitting defences, goals etc. Arnie was very slow on the ball, almost at walking pace, his shot was absolutely terrible. Out of all the Stoke players I've seen shoot I would say Arnautovic is one of the most inconsistent and I'm a big fan of Arnautovic. Yes you could see he was a good player, we stuck with it and he's improved massively. Afellay is without a doubt the best player on the ball in our club at the moment. Give him his chance on the wing and he will prove that he can play there too. I used to watch him at PSV and he would rip people a new arsehole nearly every game. His shooting is still pretty terrible He had pace then. He's lost that.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Feb 4, 2016 1:10:17 GMT
Arnie was very slow on the ball, almost at walking pace, his shot was absolutely terrible. Out of all the Stoke players I've seen shoot I would say Arnautovic is one of the most inconsistent and I'm a big fan of Arnautovic. Yes you could see he was a good player, we stuck with it and he's improved massively. Afellay is without a doubt the best player on the ball in our club at the moment. Give him his chance on the wing and he will prove that he can play there too. I used to watch him at PSV and he would rip people a new arsehole nearly every game. Mate those PSV days are long gone, I like Afellay but he isn't that player now. He hasn't really lost any pace, even playing alongside Whelan he would take people on and drive forward, I'd still give him a chance in his home position.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2016 1:11:25 GMT
Mate those PSV days are long gone, I like Afellay but he isn't that player now. He hasn't really lost any pace, even playing alongside Whelan he would take people on and drive forward, I'd still give him a chance in his home position. He used to be quick. Now he's slow. He's lost pace!
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