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Post by JC9 on Feb 2, 2016 9:47:10 GMT
I think that we can't drop Affelay, he's shined for Stoke this season, keeps the play moving brilliantly. Imbula can't replace Whelan as he's a warrior in our midfield. Which means Geoff would have to make way as I can't see him getting back into midfield. Therefor our team would look like this:
Jack
Johnson Wolly Ryan Pieters
Whelan Imbula
Affelay
Shaq *striker* Marko
Thoughts?
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Post by PB1863 on Feb 2, 2016 9:49:11 GMT
No Bojan?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 9:52:01 GMT
I've got a terrible feeling he'll start False 9'ing again.
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Post by Northy on Feb 2, 2016 9:54:40 GMT
On recent form bojan, but he can grab a goal out of nothing that Afellay hasn't blended in the team with yet.
Some games he has to rotate the players, we don't want the WBA and Leicester debacles again
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 2, 2016 9:59:12 GMT
I've got a terrible feeling he'll start False 9'ing again. As long as it's not rigidly adhered to, I'd have no problem with that. It's horses for courses, some weeks it'll work others it wouldn't. |
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Post by JC9 on Feb 2, 2016 9:59:20 GMT
Bojan looks lost at the moment.
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Post by warringtonstokie on Feb 2, 2016 10:03:26 GMT
I'm convinced that Hughes fancies Arnautovic as a number 9 with Affelay wide left and Imbula alongside Whelan
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Post by JC9 on Feb 2, 2016 10:06:20 GMT
I'm convinced that Hughes fancies Arnautovic as a number 9 with Affelay wide left and Imbula alongside Whelan Affelays not a winger anymore, and Arnie needs to stay left wing we really missed him against palace and Liverpool after he went off |
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Post by warringtonstokie on Feb 2, 2016 10:08:56 GMT
I'm convinced that Hughes fancies Arnautovic as a number 9 with Affelay wide left and Imbula alongside Whelan Affelays not a winger anymore, and Arnie needs to stay left wing we really missed him against palace and Liverpool after he went off Is just a thought mate because struggling to see how Affelay will survive in the team now Imbula is here |
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 2, 2016 10:13:11 GMT
I think he'll play in whelans role.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Feb 2, 2016 10:14:57 GMT
Affelays not a winger anymore, and Arnie needs to stay left wing we really missed him against palace and Liverpool after he went off Is just a thought mate because struggling to see how Affelay will survive in the team now Imbula is here On current form there's no way you could drop Affelay, that would give out the wrong messages to the players at the club!!! |
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 2, 2016 10:18:46 GMT
When you see stats like that, you don't think he's a like-for-like Whelan replacement.
Suppose he could replace him in certain games, especially at home when we're going to have the bulk of possession.
But one of the knocks on him seems to be defensive discipline positionally.
It's a tough one because Afellay seems undroppable at the moment, and to leave Bojan out for any length of time would be a huge call.
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Post by foster on Feb 2, 2016 10:18:54 GMT
I think he'll play in whelans role. 4 good CMs now... Whelan, Cam, Aff and Imb. Rotating those four should keep them all fresh. Not sure which two are most similar to be honest, but I'd likely have these players rotating with each other - Whelan/Imb and Aff/Cam. |
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Post by jeycov on Feb 2, 2016 10:19:25 GMT
I'm convinced that Hughes fancies Arnautovic as a number 9 with Affelay wide left and Imbula alongside Whelan Affelays not a winger anymore, and Arnie needs to stay left wing we really missed him against palace and Liverpool after he went off Arnie needs to stay full stop!!! |
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Post by greystokie on Feb 2, 2016 10:20:22 GMT
When we're not "false nineing" I think it'll be Affeley who'll drop out, provided that Bojan is in form (which he isn't at the moment). The formation will depend upon the opposition and whether we are at home or away. We're slowly evolving to a position where we will eventually have a proper plan A and a plan B; hopefully by the start of next season when the final jigsaw pieces fall into place.
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Post by pez75 on Feb 2, 2016 10:32:23 GMT
Why do people keep suggesting that because he clearly has more about him than Whelan - he cant possibly replace him???
It is what we have been crying out for - a DM with a bit more in his locker than just disrupting the oppositions play. Its called progression. Yes GW does an admirable job most weeks but he is a liability when he has the ball under pressure. He loses the ball more than he wins it if we are under the cosh. Just re-run the Leicester game or 1st half v Liverpool if you need reminding, and that is just recently.
Glen has been tremendous for us and I hope he will continue to do so, but if we really want to compete with the big boys then we have to start upgrading - I am convinced that this is what Hughes is thinking.
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Post by ryan4england on Feb 2, 2016 10:59:36 GMT
Can't see imbula starting straight away it'll be 3 or 4 games before he does & aff is playing well so there isn't a rush
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2016 11:01:21 GMT
Why do people keep suggesting that because he clearly has more about him than Whelan - he cant possibly replace him??? It is what we have been crying out for - a DM with a bit more in his locker than just disrupting the oppositions play. Its called progression. Yes GW does an admirable job most weeks but he is a liability when he has the ball under pressure. He loses the ball more than he wins it if we are under the cosh. Just re-run the Leicester game or 1st half v Liverpool if you need reminding, and that is just recently. Glen has been tremendous for us and I hope he will continue to do so, but if we really want to compete with the big boys then we have to start upgrading - I am convinced that this is what Hughes is thinking. The roles are totally different though aren't they? The 'Whelan' role requires a player who is extremely disciplined, who is prepared to sit in front of the defence, protecting the centre backs, methodically breaking down the opposition play. Imbula likes to drive forward, dribbling past players, quickly moving the ball from defence to attack. Yes the lad knows how to tackle but to ask him to sit in front of the defence would hamstring him of some of his best qualities. The reason Cameron can't play the Whelan role is because he simply doesn't have the discipline to hold his position, as he likes to drive forward with the ball. We don't know yet if Afellay can do Whelan's job, if he can't, then we still have just the one player at the club who can and that's - Glenn Whelan. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2016 11:06:34 GMT
A little bit "left field" but is Arnie talented enough to make the move that the likes of Ronaldo and Bale have done, so as to feature more prominently in the middle of the pitch?
For now, something along the lines of;
Butland
Johnson, Wolschied, Muniesa, Pieters (obviously only until Ryan returns)
Whelan, Imbula
Shaqiri, Bojan, Affelay
Arnie
EDIT - Jesus Christ, the more I think about that line up, particularly with Ryan back, I'm getting a hard on.
Arnie is quick, strong, two footed and 6ft+. When the false 9 has failed, it's generally been because we haven't had a strong focal point. Arnie is arguably the strongest player in the squad, he's our most prominent goal threat and against WBA, when he had to hold the ball up in that role with 9 players, he was awesome.
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Post by pez75 on Feb 2, 2016 11:12:02 GMT
Why do people keep suggesting that because he clearly has more about him than Whelan - he cant possibly replace him??? It is what we have been crying out for - a DM with a bit more in his locker than just disrupting the oppositions play. Its called progression. Yes GW does an admirable job most weeks but he is a liability when he has the ball under pressure. He loses the ball more than he wins it if we are under the cosh. Just re-run the Leicester game or 1st half v Liverpool if you need reminding, and that is just recently. Glen has been tremendous for us and I hope he will continue to do so, but if we really want to compete with the big boys then we have to start upgrading - I am convinced that this is what Hughes is thinking. The roles are totally different though aren't they? The 'Whelan' role requires a player who is extremely disciplined, who is prepared to sit in front of the defence, protecting the centre backs, methodically breaking down the opposition play. Imbula likes to drive forward, dribbling past players, quickly moving the ball from defence to attack. Yes the lad knows how to tackle but to ask him to sit in front of the defence would hamstring him of some of his best qualities. The reason Cameron can't play the Whelan role is because he simply doesn't have the discipline to hold his position, as he likes to drive forward with the ball. We don't know yet if Afellay can do Whelan's job, if he can't, then we still have just the one player at the club who can and that's - Glenn Whelan. Thats my point - maybe hughes wants someone to do that role - and more! MH has pulled GW off at half-time and just after a few times already this season which shows he is prepared to try something different, a bit more dynamic - now he has a player who can protect, hold up the ball, and initiate forward play. Affelay has shone in his new role, so I cannot see MH moving him elsewhere. I reckon that eventually it will be GW getting splinters in his arse. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2016 11:14:48 GMT
A little bit "left field" but is Arnie talented enough to make the move that the likes of Ronaldo and Bale have done, so as to feature more prominently in the middle of the pitch? For now, something along the lines of; Butland Johnson, Wolschied, Muniesa, Pieters (obviously only until Ryan returns) Whelan, Imbula Shaqiri, Bojan, Affelay Arnie EDIT - Jesus Christ, the more I think about that line up, particularly with Ryan back, I'm getting a hard on. Arnie is quick, strong, two footed and 6ft+. When the false 9 has failed, it's generally been because we haven't had a strong focal point. Arnie is arguably the strongest player in the squad, he's our most prominent goal threat and against WBA, when he had to hold the ball up in that role with 9 players, he was awesome. Afellay is far more effective in the middle than on the wing Dave and Arnie is far from being a natural finisher, indeed at times his shooting is simply dreadful. It's not something that is going to change either at this stage in his career. He's fine at finding space and ghosting in from the flank to chip in with some goals but he wouldn't cope well with being permanently marked as a player who is leading the line. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2016 11:20:20 GMT
The roles are totally different though aren't they? The 'Whelan' role requires a player who is extremely disciplined, who is prepared to sit in front of the defence, protecting the centre backs, methodically breaking down the opposition play. Imbula likes to drive forward, dribbling past players, quickly moving the ball from defence to attack. Yes the lad knows how to tackle but to ask him to sit in front of the defence would hamstring him of some of his best qualities. The reason Cameron can't play the Whelan role is because he simply doesn't have the discipline to hold his position, as he likes to drive forward with the ball. We don't know yet if Afellay can do Whelan's job, if he can't, then we still have just the one player at the club who can and that's - Glenn Whelan. Thats my point - maybe hughes wants someone to do that role - and more! MH has pulled GW off at half-time and just after a few times already this season which shows he is prepared to try something different, a bit more dynamic - now he has a player who can protect, hold up the ball, and initiate forward play. Affelay has shone in his new role, so I cannot see MH moving him elsewhere. I reckon that eventually it will be GW getting splinters in his arse. You can't be a player who is disciplined, who sits in in front of the defence protecting the back four AND be tasked with driving forward carrying the ball from defence to attack, it's a physical impossibility. The main suggestion of why he was a flop at Porto, was because they tried to make him play the 'Whelan' role, when his natural game was not to actually sit but to play as a box to box midfielder, like he did at Marseille. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 2, 2016 11:21:34 GMT
We are assuming all are fit, free of injury and suspension and in form. To have our best 13 or so players all in that category is very rare and, when we play midweek and weekend, rotation is inevitable. Even then, we often rest Bojan after 60 minutes, and maybe one of the wingers too, so if one of the central three is rested, he would stand a good chance of getting 30 minutes anyway. Gilbert will be eased into the English game, I think, most likely, with a few cameos off the bench, unless injury forces Hughes' hand.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Feb 2, 2016 11:26:03 GMT
More than ever, it's a squad game. He invariably uses all 3 subs, so that's 14 taking part on matchday. Maybe we won't have a regular starting 11.
He'll pick horses for courses, and the great thing about the back end of last season was that players like Geoff, Charlie and at that time Arnie came back into the side and played really well. I expect those 2 plus SJW, Joselu, hopefully Mame Diouf and even Crouchie and Wingie will make a contribution. They will all have a role to play. It allows him to rest a few and change the way we play.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2016 11:27:39 GMT
A little bit "left field" but is Arnie talented enough to make the move that the likes of Ronaldo and Bale have done, so as to feature more prominently in the middle of the pitch? For now, something along the lines of; Butland Johnson, Wolschied, Muniesa, Pieters (obviously only until Ryan returns) Whelan, Imbula Shaqiri, Bojan, Affelay Arnie EDIT - Jesus Christ, the more I think about that line up, particularly with Ryan back, I'm getting a hard on. Arnie is quick, strong, two footed and 6ft+. When the false 9 has failed, it's generally been because we haven't had a strong focal point. Arnie is arguably the strongest player in the squad, he's our most prominent goal threat and against WBA, when he had to hold the ball up in that role with 9 players, he was awesome. Afellay is far more effective in the middle than on the wing Dave and Arnie is far from being a natural finisher, indeed at times his shooting is simply dreadful. It's not something that is going to change either at this stage in his career. He's fine at finding space and ghosting in from the flank to chip in with some goals but he wouldn't cope well with being permanently marked as a player who is leading the line. Why try to piss on my bonfire? Why can't you just let me revel in a moment of inspiration that has me salivating at the prospect of what my team could actually do?  In all seriousness, re Affelay I think we may be judging him on his early season showings. For 45 minutes on the right wing at West Ham, I thought he was sublime and he's gone on several lung busting runs down the wing, the most recent of which was in extra time at Anfield which highlights the player he perhaps once was. He's a different player than the one we saw at the start of the season. Fitter, stronger, faster and full of confidence. Affelay is so good, I honestly think he could play anywhere on the pitch. I'm basing my thoughts on not having seen Imbula play but for home games against the type of opposition we've struggled against, I suspect Whelan may well be the fall guy at times. I'm seriously hoping Imbula is the midfield player I dream of. Nothing pisses me of more in modern football (coloured boots aside) than this defensive/attacking midfielder bollocks. A midfield player, in the true sense of the word, contributes effectively in every area of the pitch. I compared him to Viera in the matchday threat v Porto in pre-season. Now there, is a proper midfield player. A man capable of doing everything and doing everything well. I hope Imbula is that man for us! |
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 2, 2016 11:31:32 GMT
Thats my point - maybe hughes wants someone to do that role - and more! MH has pulled GW off at half-time and just after a few times already this season which shows he is prepared to try something different, a bit more dynamic - now he has a player who can protect, hold up the ball, and initiate forward play. Affelay has shone in his new role, so I cannot see MH moving him elsewhere. I reckon that eventually it will be GW getting splinters in his arse. You can't be a player who is disciplined, who sits in in front of the defence protecting the back four AND be tasked with driving forward carrying the ball from defence to attack, it's a physical impossibility. The main suggestion of why he was a flop at Porto, was because they tried to make him play the 'Whelan' role, when his natural game was not to actually sit but to play as a box to box midfielder, like he did at Marseille. Whelan still gets forward though. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2016 11:35:05 GMT
Afellay is far more effective in the middle than on the wing Dave and Arnie is far from being a natural finisher, indeed at times his shooting is simply dreadful. It's not something that is going to change either at this stage in his career. He's fine at finding space and ghosting in from the flank to chip in with some goals but he wouldn't cope well with being permanently marked as a player who is leading the line. Why try to piss on my bonfire? Why can't you just let me revel in a moment of inspiration that has me salivating at the prospect of what my team could actually do? In all seriousness, re Affelay I think we may be judging him on his early season showings. For 45 minutes on the right wing at West Ham, I thought he was sublime and he's gone on several lung busting runs down the wing, the most recent of which was in extra time at Anfield which highlights the player he perhaps once was. He's a different player than the one we saw at the start of the season. Fitter, stronger, faster and full of confidence. Affelay is so good, I honestly think he could play anywhere on the pitch. I'm basing my thoughts on not having seen Imbula play but for home games against the type of opposition we've struggled against, I suspect Whelan may well be the fall guy at times. I'm seriously hoping Imbula is the midfield player I dream of. Nothing pisses me of more in modern football (coloured boots aside) than this defensive/attacking midfielder bollocks. A midfield player, in the true sense of the word, contributes effectively in every area of the pitch. I compared him to Viera in the matchday threat v Porto in pre-season. Now there, is a proper midfield player. A man capable of doing everything and doing everything well. I hope Imbula is that man for us! I think it's best not to try and find a way to fit them all into the same team. If we'd signed either Berahino or Batshuayi yesterday then it would be impossible to crow bar them all in anyway as the No. 9 position would be nailed on and it would be a straight choice of Afellay or Bojan and Afellay or Imbula. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2016 11:38:09 GMT
You can't be a player who is disciplined, who sits in in front of the defence protecting the back four AND be tasked with driving forward carrying the ball from defence to attack, it's a physical impossibility. The main suggestion of why he was a flop at Porto, was because they tried to make him play the 'Whelan' role, when his natural game was not to actually sit but to play as a box to box midfielder, like he did at Marseille. Whelan still gets forward though. He crosses the half way line at times but the majority of his game is based on protecting our defence, rather than driving forward with the ball, box to box. |
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 2, 2016 11:41:42 GMT
Whelan still gets forward though. He crosses the half way line at times but the majority of his game is based on protecting our defence, rather than driving forward with the ball, box to box. The past couple of seasons he's done it more though. Like the write up I posted yesterday stated, he does sit and primarily takes his defensive duties seriously. I just don't think it's as black and white as most are making out. |
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 2, 2016 11:42:04 GMT
Whelan still gets forward though. He crosses the half way line at times but the majority of his game is based on protecting our defence, rather than driving forward with the ball, box to box. Imbula to me just looks like a boss of a midfielder, has the ability to attack/defend and turn the ball over quickly, I think Glenn will benefit from playing next to him and visa versa. |
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