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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 12:37:44 GMT
I've already explained my view on Afellay above. Of course I'd like a player as good as Arnie on the bench,I'm living in the real world though. It's not even necessarily about being as good but we could do with someone fast and direct to offer something different. I don't see the players we have other than the main two creating much or posing much threat from the wings. And given how important the wide positions are in our attacking play that's a problem. I think we'll be fine until the end of the season,i really do.If Arnie gets injured,that's another matter but I don't care who your back up winger is,Europe would be out of the window. Shaqiri's not played in 5 league games(3 were away from home) this season,we won 2 and drew 3.
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Post by reddipotter on Feb 2, 2016 12:44:53 GMT
I think the word 'winger' is a bit misleading here. We don't actually have any orthodox wingers at the club. Arnie is a player who likes to play wide. Shaqiri plays wide on the right, and hasn't really looked comfortable there yet. Walters can 'do a job' out wide; Diouf can't. Presumably Hughes doesn't want wingers.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Feb 2, 2016 12:49:10 GMT
We're no better off out wide than we were this time last year. We've stood still. We have stood still? Did the summer not happen?
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 13:08:06 GMT
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 2, 2016 13:08:06 GMT
you get two quick wingers on the park at the same time as palace do when bolasie and Zaha are fit as man utd did in the days of giggs and Ronaldo you can really box teams in and put them under a lot of pressure. It's a brilliant way to stop 4-2-3-1 teams pushing full back's up on the overlap. You could see on Saturday Bards was loving taking his chances with Bolasies understudy and pushing up the pitch. But Pieters was not stupid enough to push up and leave Zaha behind him.. Thus effectively boxing himself in
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 2, 2016 13:09:32 GMT
It's not even necessarily about being as good but we could do with someone fast and direct to offer something different. I don't see the players we have other than the main two creating much or posing much threat from the wings. And given how important the wide positions are in our attacking play that's a problem. I think we'll be fine until the end of the season,i really do.If Arnie gets injured,that's another matter but I don't care who your back up winger is,Europe would be out of the window. Shaqiri's not played in 5 league games(3 were away from home) this season,we won 2 and drew 3. I don't think it necessarily would be out the window if we had someone fast who could cause chaos when he ran at defenders, even if he wasn't quite at Arnie's level. It'd be better than having a do a job merchant there surely?
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 13:22:07 GMT
I think we'll be fine until the end of the season,i really do.If Arnie gets injured,that's another matter but I don't care who your back up winger is,Europe would be out of the window. Shaqiri's not played in 5 league games(3 were away from home) this season,we won 2 and drew 3. I don't think it necessarily would be out the window if we had someone fast who could cause chaos when he ran at defenders, even if he wasn't quite at Arnie's level. It'd be better than having a do a job merchant there surely? Who are you thinking of mate?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 2, 2016 13:24:11 GMT
I don't think it necessarily would be out the window if we had someone fast who could cause chaos when he ran at defenders, even if he wasn't quite at Arnie's level. It'd be better than having a do a job merchant there surely? Who are you thinking of mate? There's a whole world out there, isn't that what we have scouts for? Phillips or Gray would've been good signings. That Jairo at Mainz who got mentioned at the start of the window sounded good. Ntep and Remy are strikers but both are effective on the wing and can beat players.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 13:34:33 GMT
Who are you thinking of mate? There's a whole world out there, isn't that what we have scouts for? Phillips or Gray would've been good signings. That Jairo at Mainz who got mentioned at the start of the window sounded good. Ntep and Remy are strikers but both are effective on the wing and can beat players. I rate Phillips,wouldn't have minded him.Too expensive for a back up though? I'd be disappointed if we signed Remy and put him on the wing.Can't comment on the others. Bottom line is Hughes thinks the squad is good enough to cover injuries etc and judging by the results that we achieved when Shaq was missing,he's hardly been proven wrong.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 2, 2016 13:37:29 GMT
There's a whole world out there, isn't that what we have scouts for? Phillips or Gray would've been good signings. That Jairo at Mainz who got mentioned at the start of the window sounded good. Ntep and Remy are strikers but both are effective on the wing and can beat players. I rate Phillips,wouldn't have minded him.Too expensive for a back up though? I'd be disappointed if we signed Remy and put him on the wing.Can't comment on the others. Bottom line is Hughes thinks the squad is good enough to cover injuries etc and judging by the results that we achieved when Shaq was missing,he's hardly been proven wrong. Remy's best football in England has come on the right of a front three. Again I don't think it's as simple as dismissing a player as 'back-up'. It's more fluid than that, they'd get plenty of opportunities when we shuffle the pack. I don't think we look anything like the same team when one of the wingers is missing. Let's hope you're right though.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 13:44:49 GMT
I rate Phillips,wouldn't have minded him.Too expensive for a back up though? I'd be disappointed if we signed Remy and put him on the wing.Can't comment on the others. Bottom line is Hughes thinks the squad is good enough to cover injuries etc and judging by the results that we achieved when Shaq was missing,he's hardly been proven wrong. Remy's best football in England has come on the right of a front three. Again I don't think it's as simple as dismissing a player as 'back-up'. It's more fluid than that, they'd get plenty of opportunities when we shuffle the pack. I don't think we look anything like the same team when one of the wingers is missing. Let's hope you're right though. Remy's best football wasn't as a winger though was it.
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 13:48:30 GMT
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Feb 2, 2016 13:48:30 GMT
I would have been happy with Aiden Mcgeady on loan till end of season..as cover for Shaq and Arnie.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 2, 2016 13:52:06 GMT
Remy's best football in England has come on the right of a front three. Again I don't think it's as simple as dismissing a player as 'back-up'. It's more fluid than that, they'd get plenty of opportunities when we shuffle the pack. I don't think we look anything like the same team when one of the wingers is missing. Let's hope you're right though. Remy's best football wasn't as a winger though was it. No but it was as a wide player and he can do a lot of things a winger does. He's quick, he's skilful, he can beat players. He'd be a miles better option than any of our alternatives to Shaq and Arnie and we could play him up front as well.
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 13:54:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 13:54:34 GMT
We're no better off out wide than we were this time last year. We've stood still. We have stood still? Did the summer not happen? We lost Moses and acquired Shaqiri out wide. 1 for 1. Ability wise they're 1 for 1. Still no third winger to back him and Arnie up
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 13:56:39 GMT
Remy's best football wasn't as a winger though was it. No but it was as a wide player and he can do a lot of things a winger does. He's quick, he's skilful, he can beat players. He'd be a miles better option than any of our alternatives to Shaq and Arnie and we could play him up front as well. Play him up front,yes.Surely if we'd signed him and Arnie got injured you wouldn't play Remy on the wing for a month.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 2, 2016 13:58:14 GMT
No but it was as a wide player and he can do a lot of things a winger does. He's quick, he's skilful, he can beat players. He'd be a miles better option than any of our alternatives to Shaq and Arnie and we could play him up front as well. Play him up front,yes.Surely if we'd signed him and Arnie got injured you wouldn't play Remy on the wing for a month. Why not, sorry? Have you seen Remy play out wide? He's very good there?
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 14:01:06 GMT
Play him up front,yes.Surely if we'd signed him and Arnie got injured you wouldn't play Remy on the wing for a month. Why not, sorry? Have you seen Remy play out wide? He's very good there? I've not seen him play as a winger no.
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Post by bogus on Feb 2, 2016 14:03:20 GMT
Now he's up to speed, Ibrahim Affelay is more than good enough. Jon Walters provides us with a way to apply a different type of pressure on a fullback. If Shaqiri and Arnie aren't available, and we only have 15 league fixtures left, I'm more than happy for these two to fill the spaces. In an ideal world, the cover and the pressure on the first choices will, eventually, come through from the academy. If we stock pile bench sitters we will drastically reduce these opportunities in the future.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 2, 2016 15:04:42 GMT
Now he's up to speed, Ibrahim Affelay is more than good enough. Jon Walters provides us with a way to apply a different type of pressure on a fullback. If Shaqiri and Arnie aren't available, and we only have 15 league fixtures left, I'm more than happy for these two to fill the spaces. In an ideal world, the cover and the pressure on the first choices will, eventually, come through from the academy. If we stock pile bench sitters we will drastically reduce these opportunities in the future. I agree with that Bogus. I'd add Odemwingie, and even Johnson as our best 'winger' wide man, and Joselu has done his best work for us out wide, delivering crosses, winning penalties. I'm not against Diouf on the right flank for the occasional game/cameo either. Plenty of options for the run in. During his tenure Hughes has played Adam, Ireland and Wilson in the stead of wide forwards too! Hughes really doesn't go for the traditional, line hugging tricky winger, preferring the inversion. Both Assaidi and Moses had the potential, but he chose not to use them in that way. Once Ethers and Pennant left he's shown no interest in width from the strike force, that comes from the full backs. Perhaps Arnie, being the finest exponent of the inside right has put a spell on Hughes, blinded him to the idea of hitting the byline and crossing it in with the stronger foot. It'd be great if Hughes has an epiphany and goes for a Redmond type {to bridge the gap until the Academy bears fruit}, to mix things up and compliment the central striker. I'd be surprised if it happens though.
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 2, 2016 15:24:19 GMT
I love Affelay and I think he is a fantastic player but he doesn't have the lightening pace to be a proper winger.
The purpose of playing a proper winger is 1) on the ball...to do his thing and get balls in behind the opposition defence 2) off the ball ... to be so fast the opposition full back is reluctant to push on and support the attack because he is so quick if possession is lost he will never catch him and his centre halfs wont be loving comming over to challenge him when he is flying and the slightest change of direction can see him fly past
Affellay is not slow but he doesn't have the genuine pace to make a Glenn Johnson style full back think twice about pushing on ...which is a shame because he is ace on the ball
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:28:28 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2016 15:28:28 GMT
I'm not sure the likes of Redmond and Philips are the type of player we are looking for in all honesty. Our aspirations are much bigger than that and we all probably need to start thinking bigger.
We, as supporters, might be happy with a cup run and top 10 finish but our clubs owner and manager clearly have far loftier ambitions.
Equally a deal for remy perhaps makes less sense. Big fee, big wages, no resale value. Coates comments on imbula (if he's as good as we think he is he will maintain his value) are very pertinent.
One thing for certain though, this club of ours is doing EVERYTHING it can to be as successful as possible. This isn't Coates mk1 hoping we can be successful or Tony pulis hoping we can get lucky, this is an ambitious club reaching for unprecedented heights.
I'd have loved a 3rd winger to arrive but I'm comfortable enough accepting that perhaps the right deal or player wasn't available to us. Afterall, had berahino offers been accepted we could well have seen our club spend the best part of 40m on two players. If the right winger was out there and available, I'm happy to trust that we'd have done all we could to get him through the door.
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:29:04 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2016 15:29:04 GMT
I love Affelay and I think he is a fantastic player but he doesn't have the lightening pace to be a proper winger. The purpose of playing a proper winger is 1) on the ball...to do his thing and get balls in behind the opposition defence 2) off the ball ... to be so fast the opposition full back is reluctant to push on and support the attack because he is so quick if possession is lost he will never catch him and his centre halfs wont be loving comming over to challenge him when he is flying and the slightest change of direction can see him fly past Affellay is not slow but he doesn't have the genuine pace to make a Glenn Johnson style full back think twice about pushing on ...which is a shame because he is ace on the ball He looks quicker than shaqiri to me
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:30:38 GMT
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Post by ryan4england on Feb 2, 2016 15:30:38 GMT
A direct winger with pace is essential for how we play, they take the ball from your end to their end in seconds, it makes the other winger bust forward to keep up, it drags players towards the runner creating space for others, it stops the opposition pressing so high, it make defenders have to think quicker causing mistakes.
The benefits are endless and it's why i'm of the opinion our main 2 are too alike which lessens/upsets the balance of the team. Tricks are nice but so is intent
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 2, 2016 15:30:46 GMT
you might be right !!!
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:34:27 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2016 15:34:27 GMT
A direct winger with pace is essential for how we play, they take the ball from your end to their end in seconds, it makes the other winger bust forward to keep up, it drags players towards the runner creating space for others, it stops the opposition pressing so high, it make defenders have to think quicker causing mistakes. The benefits are endless and it's why i'm of the opinion our main 2 are too alike which lessens/upsets the balance of the team. Tricks are nice but so is intent We haven't had one of those all season and we are doing pretty well
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 2, 2016 15:37:13 GMT
He might be quicker than Shaquiri ... he is certainly a good player .
My point was mean't to be if you don't play someone proper quick ... a Diouf , a Vardy , a Zaha etc ..you are inviting the opposition full backs to push on and inviting pressure on yourself.
You only have to watch Glenn Johnson playing for Stoke against a wide man who is not super quick to see the problems you are causing yourself if you haven't got pace out wide .
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:38:32 GMT
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Post by ryan4england on Feb 2, 2016 15:38:32 GMT
A direct winger with pace is essential for how we play, they take the ball from your end to their end in seconds, it makes the other winger bust forward to keep up, it drags players towards the runner creating space for others, it stops the opposition pressing so high, it make defenders have to think quicker causing mistakes. The benefits are endless and it's why i'm of the opinion our main 2 are too alike which lessens/upsets the balance of the team. Tricks are nice but so is intent We haven't had one of those all season and we are doing pretty well we are but for me its a big part of the reason we often struggle to break teams down, we often let them regain shape before trying to undo them instead of having someone upping the pace and forcing the issue
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 15:44:18 GMT
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Post by samba :) on Feb 2, 2016 15:44:18 GMT
We're no better off out wide than we were this time last year. We've stood still. We have stood still? Did the summer not happen? We lost victor and brought Shaq in We lost nzonzi now we've brought Imbula in We lost that shit keeper and Brought a quality youth in Haugaard in It's tight between victor and shaq imbula we don't know and the keepers improved so no we havent stood still Also certain players are alot better this season and we have broken our transfer record twice We definitely havent stood still
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Post by stokerstayinup on Feb 2, 2016 15:45:01 GMT
I love Affelay and I think he is a fantastic player but he doesn't have the lightening pace to be a proper winger. The purpose of playing a proper winger is 1) on the ball...to do his thing and get balls in behind the opposition defence 2) off the ball ... to be so fast the opposition full back is reluctant to push on and support the attack because he is so quick if possession is lost he will never catch him and his centre halfs wont be loving comming over to challenge him when he is flying and the slightest change of direction can see him fly past Affellay is not slow but he doesn't have the genuine pace to make a Glenn Johnson style full back think twice about pushing on ...which is a shame because he is ace on the ball He looks quicker than shaqiri to me I wouldn't go that far but he certainly isn't slow and wouldn't let us down on the wing now he's settled into the team.
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Wingers
Feb 2, 2016 17:13:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 17:13:52 GMT
We have stood still? Did the summer not happen? We lost victor and brought Shaq in We lost nzonzi now we've brought Imbula in We lost that shit keeper and Brought a quality youth in Haugaard in It's tight between victor and shaq imbula we don't know and the keepers improved so no we havent stood still Also certain players are alot better this season and we have broken our transfer record twice We definitely havent stood still This is in the context of the thread about wingers. In which we have stood still.
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Post by algor on Feb 2, 2016 21:20:00 GMT
What's the point in signing wing cover when your summer record breaking big name signing can't get on the wing in front of Walters?
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