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Post by capto on Jan 19, 2016 13:37:31 GMT
On Sunday, to me, and from the previous games incl. west brom, I get the impression he's 'hiding' from receiving the ball.the midfield and wingers are looking for an outlet or run and he's not there for them. Nowadays I worry when he gets the ball because he loses it a lot, in dangerous positions, and we are out of position. No one is doubting his class, but if he's not producing it, the other ten are carrying him - and that can't last indefinitely in the prem. The manager and the club will now his fitness and what's in his head and the decision is there's , but his place can't be justified at the moment. If there's any technical wizard out there, can they get his stats for the arse and recent games? I'm kinda thinking of passes completed, number of times in possession, number of times lost possession - surely those facts will then stand up to whether or not he's contributing to the team sufficiently?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 19, 2016 13:40:42 GMT
This thread has digressed a little but has there been any suggestion, anywhere, that Bojan isn't trying? I've missed that if they have.
Bojan is clearly giving it everything but he was a passenger on Sunday and he has been for a few games of late. He is jumping out of the way of challenges that aren't even there, his touch is poor and his decision making even worse. In one passage of play on Sunday he took 4 mini touches to bring the ball under control, could have shot, didn't, could have passed, didn't and ended up tripping up over his own feet.
That is not the Bojan we know, love or expect. He isn't playing well, he isn't at one with himself, he cuts a fairly forlorn and frustrated figure most of the time and he was a passenger on Sunday. Not because he wasn't trying (the harder he tried the worse he got) but simply because he barely did a thing right.
The rest of the team is carrying him, as good teams do. How long that can continue is for the manager to decide.
It isn't blasphemous to say that. It is simply the truth.
Patience is needed. Patience will be given but surely if you want a messageboard that discusses the games and all things Stoke City, then the form of our best and most talented player is going to feature pretty high in any dialogue.
Bojan will come back and show his class for sure. Had it been another player playing in this way, I'm almost certain he would have found himself out of the side by now.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 19, 2016 13:47:41 GMT
On Sunday, to me, and from the previous games incl. west brom, I get the impression he's 'hiding' from receiving the ball. I think he's been dropping deeper to actually get ball because he's getting very little space higher up the pitch. Not his fault, teams are sticking a man on him at all times as whenever he does get the ball a second player is straight in as well. What it does mean is that normally Whelan or Affelay end up with a bit more space.
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2016 14:03:27 GMT
Form is temporary, Class is permanent....
Or some other bollocks like that.
He's frustrated me the past few games but I'm sure he'll click into gear again soon.
I've no issue with him being given a match break or starting on the bench either.
MH knows best.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 19, 2016 15:28:34 GMT
Im thinking the problem stems from him still being scared of getting injured.
You just have to go into every tackle 100% and not worry about what might/might not happen.
Its the same in rugby - when players try to hold back its a different game and are actually more likely to hurt themselves or someone else.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 19, 2016 15:35:36 GMT
Im thinking the problem stems from him still being scared of getting injured. You just have to go into every tackle 100% and not worry about what might/might not happen. Its the same in rugby - when players try to hold back its a different game and are actually more likely to hurt themselves or someone else. You still see lots of players like Bojan - usually gifted, usually slight - who avoid the more physical side of the game. Juan mata, David Silva are exactly the same. For us, Stephen Ireland is one, and don't forget Ethers - he was one of the biggest fannies to ever grace a football pitch (still love him mind...).
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Post by thehoof on Jan 19, 2016 15:53:31 GMT
I think we are a little slow in actually getting the ball into him, and by the time we do he has been picked up and the space has gone.It is also true that at the moment his touch has deserted him.Only Arnie and Shaq are prepared to play a first time pass with any pace- even Affy likes to take s touch before moving the ball on- in the position that Bojan takes up, the space is only there for a fraction of the time and if the ball is not delivered extremely quickly, you end up coming even deeper for the ball. One of the reasons for our success against Man C. was the fact that we never allowed their defence or holding midfielders to get the ball into Silva or De Bruyne with any speed- forcing even those two to have to go deeper into positions where they couldn't harm us.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 19, 2016 17:09:28 GMT
Bojan hasn't played well since our first half against Everton away! We all know what he can do, but for the last games he has really been weak. I think everybody in the the squad deserves the same chances to play regularly, but if you don't do well you should of course not be in the starting 11 any longer! I think other players need to be given the same chance to shine now! This doesn't mean I dislike Bojan or don't think he'll come good again, but everybody deserves the same opportunities!
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 19, 2016 17:28:37 GMT
If we do rest him then what's not to like about Afellay playing behind Joselu with Arnie and Shaq either side (if the latter is fit that is). Depending on what's occurring Bojan could come on later with Af dropping back to replace one of Cameron or Whelan (if Cameron is fit etc etc).
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Post by nik80 on Jan 19, 2016 18:16:27 GMT
Although I think he gets knocked off the ball a bit easily, I don't think his teammates are finding him so much at the moment, making it look like he's hiding. He's currently cutting a frustrated figure who doesn't look happy with his own performance. Hughesy subbing him first every match can't be doing much for his confidence either.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 19, 2016 18:32:39 GMT
At the moment Bojan is hardly putting a tackle in, and always seems to go down the blind alleys. At his best he is probably our best player, but he really looks like he needs a rest. Maybe give him 30 minutes at the end of games instead of 60 minutes from the start for a while. He looks knackered to me right now!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 19, 2016 18:34:17 GMT
I'm his biggest fan absolutely love the guy he's a technical genius and some of passing you think WOW But lately he's looking tired and over used and he's suffering and other teams are benefiting from it. Next game Leicester my front four would be Affelay-----------Shaqiri----------Arnie --------------------Joselu--------------- Afellay shouldn't be anywhere near the wing, I'd just swap Bojan with Adam, we do need another winger though, Arnie could do with a rest too.
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Post by spiderpuss on Jan 19, 2016 21:04:13 GMT
For the moment Bojan seems to have lost his way a little, coupled together with the fact that teams have sussed how to defend against him. (get close and bully him off the ball). What struck me recently though was just his severe lack of position, he was away from the play, couldn't be passed to and wasn't making himself available. In comparison (when he came on) Odem was lively and looking to split defences and willing to receive the ball off the nearest midfielder. The difference was huge and as a result the opponent took a collective step back, just by his introduction.
We perhaps need to change how we use BK, but for the moment I'd rest him.
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Post by march4 on Jan 19, 2016 21:06:59 GMT
Half our players haven't looked right since the West Brom game.
We should have played a more robust set of players.
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Post by spiderpuss on Jan 19, 2016 21:13:30 GMT
Half our players haven't looked right since the West Brom game. We should have played a more robust set of players. Our worst team choice this season by miles. To just plod out the same team that ran its knackers off against the toffees was just wrong, wrong and more wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 22:37:40 GMT
Bojan is a great player of that there is no doubt. However he's been poor for the last few games and to be honest his performance against Liverpool would have led any other of the players to a long spell out of the team. To me he looks tired and totally devoid of confidence. He needs a couple of weeks away from the first team to regain his confidence and fitness. I feel sure this will be of immense benefit to him.
On Saturday I would start Joselu as the number ten behind Diouf. Bring Shaq back and give Arnie a well earned rest.
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Post by BuzzB on Jan 19, 2016 22:48:01 GMT
This thread has digressed a little but has there been any suggestion, anywhere, that Bojan isn't trying? I've missed that if they have. Bojan is clearly giving it everything but he was a passenger on Sunday and he has been for a few games of late. He is jumping out of the way of challenges that aren't even there, his touch is poor and his decision making even worse. In one passage of play on Sunday he took 4 mini touches to bring the ball under control, could have shot, didn't, could have passed, didn't and ended up tripping up over his own feet. That is not the Bojan we know, love or expect. He isn't playing well, he isn't at one with himself, he cuts a fairly forlorn and frustrated figure most of the time and he was a passenger on Sunday. Not because he wasn't trying (the harder he tried the worse he got) but simply because he barely did a thing right. The rest of the team is carrying him, as good teams do. How long that can continue is for the manager to decide. It isn't blasphemous to say that. It is simply the truth. Patience is needed. Patience will be given but surely if you want a messageboard that discusses the games and all things Stoke City, then the form of our best and most talented player is going to feature pretty high in any dialogue. Bojan will come back and show his class for sure. Had it been another player playing in this way, I'm almost certain he would have found himself out of the side by now. My thoughts to a tee, very well put.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 22:55:57 GMT
After being out for so long maybe his fitness is starting to get stretched. A busy schedule over christmas definitely seems to have contributed to his recent dip in form.
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Jan 20, 2016 21:36:05 GMT
I am starting to worry a little that this is the Bojan of Ajax and Milan.
He seems to be less confident than he was and whilst I certainly don't think he isn't trying I do agree with the poster that says he seems to be hiding a little. It appears that it is a confidence thing and I hope he gets it back soon.
Don't get me wrong I love the guy. Just can't wait to see him back to his best.
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Post by Davef on Jan 20, 2016 21:38:46 GMT
I am starting to worry a little that this is the Bojan of Ajax and Milan. He seems to be less confident than he was and whilst I certainly don't think he isn't trying I do agree with the poster that says he seems to be hiding a little. It appears that it is a confidence thing and I hope he gets it back soon. Don't get me wrong I love the guy. Just can't wait to see him back to his best. He isn't hiding.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 20, 2016 21:49:22 GMT
Bojan is a great player of that there is no doubt. However he's been poor for the last few games and to be honest his performance against Liverpool would have led any other of the players to a long spell out of the team. To me he looks tired and totally devoid of confidence. He needs a couple of weeks away from the first team to regain his confidence and fitness. I feel sure this will be of immense benefit to him. On Saturday I would start Joselu as the number ten behind Diouf. Bring Shaq back and give Arnie a well earned rest. I'm not sure how not picking him is going to increase his confidence? What School of Psychology is that from? 'The best way not to hurt anybody is to kick them in the bollocks' branch of Psychological Intervention? If Bojan was immense every game he wouldn't be at Stoke. But don't drop him..have patience.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 20, 2016 22:03:42 GMT
Bojan is a great player of that there is no doubt. However he's been poor for the last few games and to be honest his performance against Liverpool would have led any other of the players to a long spell out of the team. To me he looks tired and totally devoid of confidence. He needs a couple of weeks away from the first team to regain his confidence and fitness. I feel sure this will be of immense benefit to him. On Saturday I would start Joselu as the number ten behind Diouf. Bring Shaq back and give Arnie a well earned rest. I'm not sure how not picking him is going to increase his confidence? What School of Psychology is that from? 'The best way not to hurt anybody is to kick them in the bollocks' branch of Psychological Intervention? If Bojan was immense every game he wouldn't be at Stoke. But don't drop him..have patience. Exactly. He is class and will play himself back into form. A little patience.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 20, 2016 22:07:04 GMT
Can't see Hughes dropping him as he is better than any replacement, even when he is allegedly off form!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 22:26:22 GMT
Bojan is a great player of that there is no doubt. However he's been poor for the last few games and to be honest his performance against Liverpool would have led any other of the players to a long spell out of the team. To me he looks tired and totally devoid of confidence. He needs a couple of weeks away from the first team to regain his confidence and fitness. I feel sure this will be of immense benefit to him. On Saturday I would start Joselu as the number ten behind Diouf. Bring Shaq back and give Arnie a well earned rest. I'm not sure how not picking him is going to increase his confidence? What School of Psychology is that from? 'The best way not to hurt anybody is to kick them in the bollocks' branch of Psychological Intervention? If Bojan was immense every game he wouldn't be at Stoke. But don't drop him..have patience. We'll have to agree to disagree. So we play someone who is devoid of form and fitness because of his reputation. He's a very good player but his form this season IMO does not justify that sort of preferential treatment. We have one of the most important games in our recent history and we simply cannot afford to have one of our main threats not firing on all cylinders. It's not like we haven't got the squad to cope with his absence. I like him but not enough for him to play in such an important game when he's so under par. We can't afford to get the team selection wrong next week. We still have a very good chance but we must select the players that are in form, not on reputation. I hope if he does play he rams my words straight back down my throat, but sadly I just can't see it.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Jan 20, 2016 22:27:02 GMT
Up there with the most moronic threads even for oatcake standards. Best Stoke player in 30+ years and he gets accused of hiding and being a passenger after a few quieter games - needs to be dropped? My arse.
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Post by ayem on Jan 20, 2016 22:29:29 GMT
It's a crazy time of the season. Games come in quick order, the weather is terrible, people have been talking of trades, etc.
He's not in the greatest form, many other players aren't either. But, we've had a good December and January, and he was apart of those teams. No reason to drop him, every reason to cheer him on.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 20, 2016 22:54:25 GMT
I'm not sure how not picking him is going to increase his confidence? What School of Psychology is that from? 'The best way not to hurt anybody is to kick them in the bollocks' branch of Psychological Intervention? If Bojan was immense every game he wouldn't be at Stoke. But don't drop him..have patience. We'll have to agree to disagree. So we play someone who is devoid of form and fitness because of his reputation. He's a very good player but his form this season IMO does not justify that sort of preferential treatment. We have one of the most important games in our recent history and we simply cannot afford to have one of our main threats not firing on all cylinders. It's not like we haven't got the squad to cope with his absence. I like him but not enough for him to play in such an important game when he's so under par. We can't afford to get the team selection wrong next week. We still have a very good chance but we must select the players that are in form, not on reputation. I hope if he does play he rams my words straight back down my throat, but sadly I just can't see it. Fair point. I can understand where you're coming from and for most players (like Walters) dropping them for a few games does galvanise them into better performances. But I just think that Bojan is the exception to the rule. I believe (rightly or wrongly..just opinion) that he is a massive 'confidence player' and that leaving him out now might cause psychological damage that will not produce better performances at some future date. Of course, that might be complete bollocks If he continues to put in under par performances then that situation might have to be 'reviewed' but at the moment I would continue to play him. We shall see.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 23:00:00 GMT
We'll have to agree to disagree. So we play someone who is devoid of form and fitness because of his reputation. He's a very good player but his form this season IMO does not justify that sort of preferential treatment. We have one of the most important games in our recent history and we simply cannot afford to have one of our main threats not firing on all cylinders. It's not like we haven't got the squad to cope with his absence. I like him but not enough for him to play in such an important game when he's so under par. We can't afford to get the team selection wrong next week. We still have a very good chance but we must select the players that are in form, not on reputation. I hope if he does play he rams my words straight back down my throat, but sadly I just can't see it. Fair point. I can understand where you're coming from and for most players (like Walters) dropping them for a few games does galvanise them into better performances. But I just think that Bojan is the exception to the rule. I believe (rightly or wrongly..just opinion) that he is a massive 'confidence player' and that leaving him out now might cause psychological damage that will not produce better performances at some future date. Of course, that might be complete bollocks If he continues to put in under par performances then that situation might have to be 'reviewed' but at the moment I would continue to play him. We shall see. I really hope he has a blinder and we go through. He seems a great lad who on his day is fantastic. Here's hoping.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 20, 2016 23:00:55 GMT
Exactly.
Well said.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jan 20, 2016 23:08:36 GMT
I'd start him on the bench against Leicester and bring him on for the last 25 when the game is a bit more open. Rests him up for Liverpool but gives him a chance to get a confidence boost.
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