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Post by 2004 on Nov 6, 2015 16:46:53 GMT
Why the fuck is Tom Heaton still getting in the squad? Ruddy's wank and everyone else is injured I think. I forgot 2 of them were injured. I was getting worried for a moment then!
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Post by metalhead on Nov 6, 2015 16:52:41 GMT
I'd say it's embarrassing how far we've fallen. I don't think a single one of those players who would get into the 98 squad. Yeah because that 98 squad achieved loads didn't it. You would have been better saying the '66 squad really but even then it would have been pretty irrelevant. Well they got out of the group stages? Joking aside, the 98 England squad was an excellent England team. We played far better football than we do now, and we had far better players. I know chiefdelilah mentioned about Hoddle fucking it against Romania, which is true, but we also nearly beat Argentina with 10 men. It took a penalty shootout and some very poor refereeing, for one of the best teams in the world to beat us, despite being a man down. That's the only world cup in my lifetime when I can say that we really could have won it. That's football.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 17:22:32 GMT
Yeah because that 98 squad achieved loads didn't it. You would have been better saying the '66 squad really but even then it would have been pretty irrelevant. Was still a decent squad though. If Hoddle hadn't fucked it against Romania we might've made the semis I reckon. On paper it was,I'm not arguing that point. I just think it's a bit pointless comparing this current squad with any others,especially when 99.9% of all the others ultimately failed. You could make a case for the 1990 squad but no others have ever come close to winning owt apart from the obvious of course.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 17:26:57 GMT
Was still a decent squad though. If Hoddle hadn't fucked it against Romania we might've made the semis I reckon. On paper it was,I'm not arguing that point. I just think it's a bit pointless comparing this current squad with any others,especially when 99.9% of all the others ultimately failed. You could make a case for the 1990 squad but no others have ever come close to winning owt apart from the obvious of course. fair point teams on paper mean very little see the Euro winning Greece side for the best example! then again, the England squad on here (regardless of the quality) would get slagged off even if they won the World Cup 9-0 against the 1970 Brazil side; we'd somehow still be told how boring they were/overhyped they were or that they only won because of an easy route to the final and because the opposition were probably bought off by Sky and the Premier league all threads about England on The Oatcake serve one purpose and one purpose only.....so the usual suspects (who apparently don't care about the England side and haven't done for years) can rant for page after page about how annoyed they are....despite really, honestly, genuinely not caring at all you understand truth is that we've gone from being a mediocre, bang average side who might fluke a quarter (if luck goes our way) but generally won't to being a mediocre, bang average side who might fluke a quarter (if luck goes our way) but probably won't. it's been like that for decades; the vast majority of major tournaments since 1966 have resulted in us either not qualifying, not getting through the group stages or going out in the first knock out phase. there've been something like 27 major finals since then and we've only got the quarters or better in 7 of them. all this woulda/ahoulda/coulda about the side in 98 or any other year (i thought our team on paper was pretty damn good in 2006 as well as it happens) is irrelevant unless you're playing FIFA.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 17:28:16 GMT
Yeah because that 98 squad achieved loads didn't it. You would have been better saying the '66 squad really but even then it would have been pretty irrelevant. Well they got out of the group stages? Joking aside, the 98 England squad was an excellent England team. We played far better football than we do now, and we had far better players. I know chiefdelilah mentioned about Hoddle fucking it against Romania, which is true, but we also nearly beat Argentina with 10 men. It took a penalty shootout and some very poor refereeing, for one of the best teams in the world to beat us, despite being a man down. That's the only world cup in my lifetime when I can say that we really could have won it. That's football. We got knocked out in the first knock out round so we were still 3 games from winning it even if we had have beaten the Argies. Don't get me wrong I agree when you say that squad was better than this one but I just don't understand how it's embarrassing that we have fallen so far when ultimately every single England squad has failed for the best part of 60 years.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 6, 2015 17:33:58 GMT
Well they got out of the group stages? Joking aside, the 98 England squad was an excellent England team. We played far better football than we do now, and we had far better players. I know chiefdelilah mentioned about Hoddle fucking it against Romania, which is true, but we also nearly beat Argentina with 10 men. It took a penalty shootout and some very poor refereeing, for one of the best teams in the world to beat us, despite being a man down. That's the only world cup in my lifetime when I can say that we really could have won it. That's football. We got knocked out in the first knock out round so we were still 3 games from winning it even if we had have beaten the Argies. Don't get me wrong I agree when you say that squad was better than this one but I just don't understand how it's embarrassing that we have fallen so far when ultimately every single England squad has failed for the best part of 60 years. Because for the most part, we've always been there or there abouts near the top. We're nowhere near.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Nov 6, 2015 17:45:57 GMT
We got knocked out in the first knock out round so we were still 3 games from winning it even if we had have beaten the Argies. Don't get me wrong I agree when you say that squad was better than this one but I just don't understand how it's embarrassing that we have fallen so far when ultimately every single England squad has failed for the best part of 60 years. Because for the most part, we've always been there or there abouts near the top. We're nowhere near. We're a quarter final side historically if we're honest.
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 6, 2015 18:11:13 GMT
We're a team who have never once won a straight knockout game in a tournament against a major footballing nation, unless the game was at Wembley.
The day we do that is the day we know we've made it!
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 6, 2015 18:30:46 GMT
We're a team who have never once won a straight knockout game in a tournament against a major footballing nation, unless the game was at Wembley. The day we do that is the day we know we've made it! 2002 World Cup in Japan. England 1 Argentina 0 (Beckham pen)? Edit sorry misread. That was a group game
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 6, 2015 18:32:31 GMT
We're a team who have never once won a straight knockout game in a tournament against a major footballing nation, unless the game was at Wembley. The day we do that is the day we know we've made it! 2002 World Cup in Japan. England 1 Argentina 0 (Beckham pen)? That was in the group stages.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 6, 2015 18:33:52 GMT
2002 World Cup in Japan. England 1 Argentina 0 (Beckham pen)? That was in the group stages. Yeah sorry just edited my post.
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 6, 2015 18:36:03 GMT
That was in the group stages. Yeah sorry just edited my post. And to win a tournament we'll probably have to do it at least twice. Getting knocked out on pens by a decent team is the best we can ever hope for.
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 6, 2015 18:41:34 GMT
Mark Noble is bang average. An England cap shouldn't be a lifetime achievement award. Would you have Lallana in this squad? And as for Delph, I like him too, but selected after 4 minutes of first team football over the past couple of months? Not for me, Clive.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Nov 6, 2015 18:43:09 GMT
Mark Noble is bang average. An England cap shouldn't be a lifetime achievement award. Would you have Lallana in this squad? And as for Delph, I like him too, but selected after 4 minutes of first team football over the past couple of months? Not for me, Clive. Fair point re: Delph. Guess there is just a real dearth of players for that position. I think Lallana on his day, used right, is a real talent but I wouldn't have him anywhere near the squad on current form.
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 6, 2015 18:46:24 GMT
Would you have Lallana in this squad? And as for Delph, I like him too, but selected after 4 minutes of first team football over the past couple of months? Not for me, Clive. Fair point re: Delph. Guess there is just a real dearth of players for that position. I think Lallana on his day, used right, is a real talent but I wouldn't have him anywhere near the squad on current form. There is a lack of options but I'd give Drinkwater a go. I know he isn't the popular choice but I think he's done more than Delph to merit a shot.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Nov 6, 2015 19:32:47 GMT
Fair point re: Delph. Guess there is just a real dearth of players for that position. I think Lallana on his day, used right, is a real talent but I wouldn't have him anywhere near the squad on current form. There is a lack of options but I'd give Drinkwater a go. I know he isn't the popular choice but I think he's done more than Delph to merit a shot. I really rate Drinkwater mate. Would have him here in a shot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 19:51:56 GMT
We got knocked out in the first knock out round so we were still 3 games from winning it even if we had have beaten the Argies. Don't get me wrong I agree when you say that squad was better than this one but I just don't understand how it's embarrassing that we have fallen so far when ultimately every single England squad has failed for the best part of 60 years. Because for the most part, we've always been there or there abouts near the top. We're nowhere near. Utter nonsense mate. I've been watching football seriously since the very early 80's and seen loads of footage from the 70's and we have only ever got to the semi finals of a major tournament twice in that time. I believe with the right manager in charge this current group of players could achieve what the majority of England squads have achieved over the years,which to be honest inna much.
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