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Post by hartzchoco on Sept 4, 2015 16:26:57 GMT
We were down to 9 men. Geoff fought incredibly hard and did himself proud. Boggles the mind how he can be singled out for the goal, especially in a hard fought 9 v 11 scenario, but such is the nature of a handful of sadly biased posters on here. It really is a shame. And an ex England international defender..... ...... who was also far too critical of the American.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:28:38 GMT
And an ex England international defender..... ...... who was also far too critical of the American. Ah but I thought it was because of handful of biased posters on here?
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Post by hartzchoco on Sept 4, 2015 16:34:04 GMT
...... who was also far too critical of the American. Ah but I thought it was because of handful of biased posters on here? At what point did I recant that assertion?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:38:09 GMT
Ah but I thought it was because of handful of biased posters on here? At what point did I recant that assertion? We were down to 9 men. Geoff fought incredibly hard and did himself proud. Boggles the mind how he can be singled out for the goal, especially in a hard fought 9 v 11 scenario, but such is the nature of a handful of sadly biased posters on here. It really is a shame.
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Post by hartzchoco on Sept 4, 2015 16:43:34 GMT
At what point did I recant that assertion? We were down to 9 men. Geoff fought incredibly hard and did himself proud. Boggles the mind how he can be singled out for the goal, especially in a hard fought 9 v 11 scenario, but such is the nature of a handful of sadly biased posters on here. It really is a shame. So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 4, 2015 16:43:14 GMT
I don't know what we do with Geoff. He works hard and tries hard but whatever position we try him, he isn't quite good enough. Like Walters.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:45:18 GMT
So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund. Apologies if I missed that post but it isn't in that one I quoted where you are seemingly just saying it's us! The mass debate school.
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Post by hartzchoco on Sept 4, 2015 16:50:29 GMT
So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund. Apologies if I missed that post but it isn't in that one I quoted where you are seemingly just saying it's us! The mass debate school. Top of this page. You didn't miss it, you responded to it.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 4, 2015 16:50:43 GMT
So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund. You know how it works, mate. If Glenn Whelan over commits and gets beaten by an attacking player, it's ok, cos it's Glen. If Ryan Shawcross loses his man, it's overlooked because it's Shawcross. Other players like Sidwell, Cameron, Arnie etc have every error analysed and have threads created for them. It's quite bizarre, really.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:52:12 GMT
Apologies if I missed that post but it isn't in that one I quoted where you are seemingly just saying it's us! The mass debate school. Top of this page. You didn't miss it, you responded to it. With the remark you've challenged because seemingly you don't understand sarcasm.
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Post by LphPotter on Sept 4, 2015 16:52:58 GMT
We were down to 9 men. Geoff fought incredibly hard and did himself proud. Boggles the mind how he can be singled out for the goal, especially in a hard fought 9 v 11 scenario, but such is the nature of a handful of sadly biased posters on here. It really is a shame. And an ex England international defender..... Not related to Cameron, but didn't Pejic Criticise Nzonzi a lot?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:53:08 GMT
So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund. You know how it works, mate. If Glenn Whelan over commits and gets beaten by an attacking player, it's ok, cos it's Glen. If Ryan Shawcross loses his man, it's overlooked because it's Shawcross. Other players like Sidwell, Cameron, Arnie etc have every error analysed and have threads created for them. It's quite bizarre, really. Not really, they do it way too often. Although I don't get the Arnie one although he is annoyingly inconsistent.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 16:55:07 GMT
And an ex England international defender..... Not related to Cameron, but didn't Pejic Criticise Nzonzi a lot? He did, you will gladly find me ripping into Pej on those threads! I don't like a lot of what he says it has to be said! Ethers was apparently (I say apparently because I read it on here) saying on Radio Stoke how often Geoff switches off too. It's not just people on here.
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 4, 2015 17:09:38 GMT
Cameron his never a natural central defender and is a massive worry in that position, but he is true pro and hopefully will keep learning and improving. Hughes looks to have put is confidence in Cameron in the central role and as stated in an earlier thread, I think he has ever so slightly lost the plot with this one and his defence in general.
With the current defence/mid setup I have to confess the Arsenal game does have me slightly cacking my pants. Koscielny aerial threat alone could cause us mayhem at corners/set pieces and the the lack of any decent protection from midfield could leave the back four and in particular Cam really exposed against some real quality opposition. I hope I am wrong but I cant see anything other than a good beating in this one
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Post by hartzchoco on Sept 4, 2015 17:12:48 GMT
...... who was also far too critical of the American. Ah but I thought it was because of handful of biased posters on here? That must be some extremely subtle sarcasm.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 4, 2015 17:14:22 GMT
Cameron his never a natural central defender and is a massive worry in that position, but he is true pro and hopefully will keep learning and improving. Hughes looks to have put is confidence in Cameron in the central role and as stated in an earlier thread, I think he has ever so slightly lost the plot with this one and his defence in general. With the current defence/mid setup I have to confess the Arsenal game does have me slightly cacking my pants. Koscielny aerial threat alone could cause us mayhem at corners/set pieces and the the lack of any decent protection from midfield could leave the back four and in particular Cam really exposed against some real quality opposition. I hope I am wrong but I cant see anything other than a good beating in this one I wasn't impressed with Arsenal against 10 man Newcastle.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 4, 2015 17:27:31 GMT
So...... me saying that I felt Pejic was ALSO far too critical of Geoff......... that somehow recants my statement that a handful of biased posters on here are as well?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't know what debate school you attended Bayern, but you may want to inquire about a refund. Apologies if I missed that post but it isn't in that one I quoted where you are seemingly just saying it's us! The mass debate school. Time out, lads. This is rapidly becoming the most analyzed goal in the history of the game. Great cross from the right, Cameron lost his man, Rondon scored. That's it. Time to move on. Till Ryan gets back, it's Muniesa and either Wilson or GCam at the back, Johnson on the right and Pieters on the left. Not ideal but it's the best available. Right now we are on track to score about 30 and concede about 50. So it's the midfield that needs to be sorted not the defense.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 4, 2015 17:31:54 GMT
It's odd that our manager has put all his faith in this useless defender when we have a capped German international on the bench. Mind boggling eh?
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Post by kustokie on Sept 4, 2015 17:36:13 GMT
This has nothing to do with the OP, but that never stopped anyone from changing the subject. I have been supporting Stoke for over 50 years and IMO Paj was the greatest left back to ever play for Stoke. He makes the present one look like a donkey. He could run, tackle, cover, ad cross as good as anyone who ever played and he chipped in with some great goals. He could also push the ball over the bar when necessary! BTW, even though Denis Law played for Manure he has one of my all time favorite players. Wasn't that a great header that Pej pushed over?
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Post by metalhead on Sept 4, 2015 17:40:24 GMT
This has nothing to do with the OP, but that never stopped anyone from changing the subject. I have been supporting Stoke for over 50 years and IMO Paj was the greatest left back to ever play for Stoke. He makes the present one look like a donkey. He could run, tackle, cover, ad cross as good as anyone who ever played and he chipped in with some great goals. He could also push the ball over the bar when necessary! BTW, even though Denis Law played for Manure he has one of my all time favorite players. Wasn't that a great header that Pej pushed over? I don't think anyone is questioning him as a player.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 18:08:38 GMT
It's odd that our manager has put all his faith in this useless defender when we have a capped German international on the bench. Mind boggling eh? Ah yes, the same German international half of us never wanted.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 4, 2015 18:25:05 GMT
It's odd that our manager has put all his faith in this useless defender when we have a capped German international on the bench. Mind boggling eh? Ah yes, the same German international half of us never wanted. Pretty sure your judgement on players needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. #bojan
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 18:27:06 GMT
Ah yes, the same German international half of us never wanted. Pretty sure your judgement on players needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. #bojan Nah. And especially not with defenders, usually get them figured out after 10 games. And never use a hashtag on here again, Jesus wept.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2015 22:40:16 GMT
Geoff on the bench for the USMNT. Now I do hate that acronym!
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 4, 2015 23:00:54 GMT
Geoff on the bench for the USMNT. Now I do hate that acronym! United States Mutant Ninja Turtles.
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Post by claudinho on Sept 4, 2015 23:21:43 GMT
Sounds a bit like John Stones and he's worth £35m apparently I believe there was some kind of study (I used the word losely), analysing thousands of goals scored and something like 80% of them it can be argued were caused by some kind of defensive error. This is why I zone out of the Bayern like comments about players making mistakes. Indeed
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2015 23:24:04 GMT
It's because if you say US national team people think you are referring to the U.S. Women.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 4, 2015 23:34:53 GMT
Right, on to Geoff...
*sigh*
There's a bit of a persecution complex among some posters on here when it comes to Cameron. He gets cut more slack than any other player on here, because he's got a very devoted fanbase. It's true that a lot of these are our American supporters, who are understandably fond of our only US player. They're also quite sensitive to any criticism of him. Everyone's very deeply entrenched and so I don't especially bother talking about Cameron very much any more - some are slavishly devoted to him, others are quite keen on him, others are more keen to fixate on his weaknesses. Nobody is changing their point of view any time soon because we've seen pretty much all there is to see of him.
As for Geoff himself, he has his good and his bad (yes, really!) points. No doubt he's a good player to have around the squad. He's a good athlete, he can play in a number of positions and he seems to be a popular member of the squad. He's the sort of good egg that you don't mind having around the place. He has a number of attributes that are handy on the pitch, in that he has a good engine, he's reasonably good on the ball and he's an energetic player. In certain circumstances this allows him to come to the fore. Once we were down to nine men against West Brom and brought on Arnie, he really stepped up to the plate as we moved onto the front foot. That said...
...he's not a very good defender. He's not quite Danny Collins (will anybody ever break his record of being individually responsible for 38 goals in one season?) He tends to have a couple of very flashy, standout games (that are always massively overstated - see the bit about slavish devotion above) that win over a lot of supporters, but the cracks begin to show pretty quickly. Taking this season as an example, he had a good game at Liverpool, but has since found his level of performance at centre back plummeting through the floor. He wasn't solely responsible for Spurs' second goal, but he allowed himself to be pulled way out of position by Kane and failed to prevent him playing a good throughball. The defence completely collapsed against Norwich. He made a mistake similar to the one that Sidwell was crucified for in the aftermath of the Liverpool game, teeing up a succession of errors that allowed Luton to equalise in the last minute. He made a series of mistakes against West Brom that went unpunished, before he finally pulled off his usual trick of completely losing his man and allowing him to nod in a cross. That sort of lapse is also pretty typical of his performances at right back, which are flashy but lacking in substance.
Why aren't other players subjected to this sort of critical analysis? Well, for one, the slavish devotion comes into play - if a group of posters are going to exalt every step he makes on the pitch, obviously other posters are going to point out any errors that he makes. Plus, as I said before, he gets off very lightly, especially in comparison to Wollscheid and Bardsley, the latter of whom gets hammered for, amongst other things, not being Geoff Cameron.
As for this business of him being comparable to N'Zonzi, that's just fanciful, pie in the sky stuff. N'Zonzi was excellent, a dominant physical presence in the middle of the park, whose ability to seemingly freeze time when in possession was key to our transition in style of play. He wasn't perfect, as he bombed up the pitch in attack much more quickly than he jogged back down the pitch once we lost possession, but he was a damn good play. It's not a slight against Cameron to say that he's not up to that standard. He simply isn't. He's a decent but limited player who can do a job for a few games but who isn't a serious option for a period longer than that. The same goes for him at centre back and the same goes for him at right back.
So there we have it. A balanced view. Nothing against Cameron per se, who seems a good type to have about the place, nor against the US (come on now, that's just silly), but an honest appraisal. Can we leave it at that now?
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 4, 2015 23:36:15 GMT
That post reminded me that I'm still very, very irritated by the cretinous argument that Danny Collins should play because of his 'superior distribution'. He would have looked out of place at left back in the Brian Little team!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 23:57:49 GMT
Well said. Nothing Mystical about your post mate. A very Decent take on the whole matter.
Yes, I reckon we should all leave it at that now.
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