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Post by geoff321 on Sept 2, 2015 7:40:29 GMT
Mark Hughes has done a great job and the OP has got the timing of this thread completely wrong.
We've had two 9th place finishes, finished last season strongly and are only four league games into this season, knowing also MH teams are slow starters. Peter Coates said the transfer policy had to be self supporting and in an age where transfer fees are simply stupid I think he's correct.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 2, 2015 7:51:49 GMT
Mark Hughes has done a great job and the OP has got the timing of this thread completely wrong. We've had two 9th place finishes, finished last season strongly and are only four league games into this season, knowing also MH teams are slow starters. Peter Coates said the transfer policy had to be self supporting and in an age where transfer fees are simply stupid I think he's correct. For once you are absolutely right Geoff. Regarding the transfer policy, while I agree with what the club say, perhaps the CE should keep his mouth shut then, or is he just giving it the big season ticket sell? Mixed messages.
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Post by foster on Sept 2, 2015 7:58:48 GMT
Well, since we've not really spent anything I'm hoping for a big stadium expansion announcement.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 2, 2015 8:03:37 GMT
F*ck me, if Hughes hasn't got enough credit in the bank to be trusted by the half-wits on here then it's time for us all to pack up.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Sept 2, 2015 8:05:38 GMT
There are a lot of eyes on Van Ginkel because he is perceived to be the replacement for N'Zonzi. I believe that bringing in a new defensive midfielder was fundamental to our season to either play with or instead of Whelan if he becomes injured or indeed falls out of form. I think this was clearly recognised by Hughes due to his efforts to bring in Jedinak. It is a pity that the move failed. It will be interesting to say the least to see how this season develops and there already is incredible pressure on the team and management to produce positive results against Leicester and Bournemouth in our next two home games. Exactly. Add to that the loss of Ryan (for who knows how long) and we are looking slightly vunerable in the "spine" I think a lot of Stokies have cause to be concerned to be quite honest. No defensive midfielder + no contingency in place for Shawcross = Bad Management
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Sept 2, 2015 8:17:12 GMT
bottom 3
and arse away to come
reality check for some with rose coloured specs
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 2, 2015 8:21:19 GMT
I have read the first and last page of this thread, so apologies if I make the same point anyone else has made. I don't think teams can always evolve a bit at a time, never breaking stride, incrementally progressing year on year. I think that from time to time the core of the team has to be reimagined and a new team built. If you go back to Hughes time as a player at Manchester United, Ferguson sold him, Kanchelskis, Ince, Pallister and a load of other world class players and replaced them with 'the kids'. It was a risk and they got dicked first time out. But it was a team rebuild. He kept players like Keane and Bruce, added players like Cantona, Schmeichael and Irwin into it and then moved other players in and out season on season. Essentially he built a new team to replace and improve them and ultimately he won the championship with them and just about everything else as well. I think Hughes may be doing this with Stoke right now. The spine of the team is changing, it is now (will be at least) Butland, Shawcross, van Ginkel and Diouf. The midfield of Shaqiri, Affalay, Arnie, Ireland, the magic of Bojan. Then you add experience like Johnson and some class like Muniesa and you see a different Stoke City emerge. There are problems also. The players are going to have to settle into a new team with new roles. I think van Ginkel has the hardest job of all and that is evident thus far. We clearly didn't want to lose NZonzi and not been able to replace him. I think we did not expect Shawcross to be injured and these are set backs - In part he is making changes to adapt, in part he is working with the second string options, but that is why they are there. The point I am clumsily making, is that Stoke is in rebuild. Having changed the playing strategy, Hughes has brought a lot of new faces in to support that strategy and he now has to get them all knitted together. It is disruptive and it won't come without a few problems along the way, but generally it has to be the right thing to do. So in response to the thread title, No Hughes has not lost the plot. I rather think he is changing the plot and change makes people nervous. Excellent post and I agree with the essence of it. Fergy rebuilt the United side about 8 times and seem to remember everybody telling him he had lost the plot each time he changed the DNA of the side. This certainly is a new Stoke side with a new ethos and although I cant get my head around most of his decisions and the back four is baffling me, we will say that he has changed the plot rather than lost it and get behind man and our players, after his 1st two seasons in charge he maybe deserves our full backing and trust
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 8:30:57 GMT
bottom 3 and arse away to come reality check for some with rose coloured specs 4 games in...
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Post by alster on Sept 2, 2015 8:33:58 GMT
He doesn't strike me as a bloke who's lost the plot. He seems very calm, level headed and in control. I can't agree with his every decision on players but do I trust him to fashion a good season from what he has got, undoubtedly. I look forward to watching some exciting players, playing some very watchable football I'll let him worry about league position.
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 2, 2015 8:40:07 GMT
It will be interesting to resurrect this item at the end of the season, it may cause some embarassment.
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Post by Stokyo on Sept 2, 2015 8:41:20 GMT
bottom 3 and arse away to come reality check for some with rose coloured specs There is no denying it, it is looking shit at the moment. But 4 games in so got to see how things pan out. For the people calling everyone wrist slashers/moaners/nicker wetters, how many games in before people are allowed to look at the table and show concern?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 2, 2015 8:42:06 GMT
I have read the first and last page of this thread, so apologies if I make the same point anyone else has made. I don't think teams can always evolve a bit at a time, never breaking stride, incrementally progressing year on year. I think that from time to time the core of the team has to be reimagined and a new team built. If you go back to Hughes time as a player at Manchester United, Ferguson sold him, Kanchelskis, Ince, Pallister and a load of other world class players and replaced them with 'the kids'. It was a risk and they got dicked first time out. But it was a team rebuild. He kept players like Keane and Bruce, added players like Cantona, Schmeichael and Irwin into it and then moved other players in and out season on season. Essentially he built a new team to replace and improve them and ultimately he won the championship with them and just about everything else as well. I think Hughes may be doing this with Stoke right now. The spine of the team is changing, it is now (will be at least) Butland, Shawcross, van Ginkel and Diouf. The midfield of Shaqiri, Affalay, Arnie, Ireland, the magic of Bojan. Then you add experience like Johnson and some class like Muniesa and you see a different Stoke City emerge. There are problems also. The players are going to have to settle into a new team with new roles. I think van Ginkel has the hardest job of all and that is evident thus far. We clearly didn't want to lose NZonzi and not been able to replace him. I think we did not expect Shawcross to be injured and these are set backs - In part he is making changes to adapt, in part he is working with the second string options, but that is why they are there. The point I am clumsily making, is that Stoke is in rebuild. Having changed the playing strategy, Hughes has brought a lot of new faces in to support that strategy and he now has to get them all knitted together. It is disruptive and it won't come without a few problems along the way, but generally it has to be the right thing to do. So in response to the thread title, No Hughes has not lost the plot. I rather think he is changing the plot and change makes people nervous. Excellent post and I agree with the essence of it. Fergy rebuilt the United side about 8 times and seem to remember everybody telling him he had lost the plot each time he changed the DNA of the side. This certainly is a new Stoke side with a new ethos and although I cant get my head around most of his decisions and the back four is baffling me, we will say that he has changed the plot rather than lost it and get behind man and our players, after his 1st two seasons in charge he maybe deserves our full backing and trust Why is the back 4 baffling you? Johnson, Pieters and Muniesa, if fit, were always going to be first choice with Ryan Shawcross. Ryan is injured and we have 3 players who can fill that gap, Cameron, Wilson and Wolschied. Wilson was injured for the opening fixture of the season so Cameron got the nod on the back of an excellent pre-season. It doesn't seem particularly baffling to me. Wilson and Wolschied have both come into the side at various times and done well. For a few league games post Blackburn, in truth, both were excellent in partnership with each other and whilst my memory might be playing tricks with me I'm pretty sure that they guided us to 3 wins on the bounce and 1 defeat in 8 or something like that. Wolschied may not be everyone's cup of tea (he's not mine either), and he's on a hiding to nothing as he's seen as spelling the end for Huth, but in truth, he's rarely let us down and whilst not always appearing convincing, he's featured consistently in a winning Stoke City side in Ryan's absence.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 2, 2015 8:42:45 GMT
I agree with Pyrus that MH is changing the team, but disagree that he is prepared to tread water for a season to get it right. One of the things I like most about him is his fierce ambition. He's already talked about challenging the top 6, despite our frustrating start.
He's changing the team to make it more effective, just as he has done in the past 2 seasons. He has rapidly created a culture of no fear. We go into nearly every game, home or away, thinking we can win it.
There have been many positives already, and again the squad looks strong. I think over the next few games, Van Ginkel will grow into the team and his role, whereas Affelay will rotate with Arnie. If you put Ryan back into our strongest 11, it looks a hell of a team.
Exciting times ahead, stating with a trip to the Emirates. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of another unlikely "Ethiad" performance, like this time last year to kick start our season. Arsenal play narrow, through the middle and are a little gun shy at the moment. Not sure they have much pace through central defence and I think we can cause them problems on the break.
Mark Hughes knows exactly what he's doing and definitely hasn't lost the plot. Not sure the same can be said for some of our supporters though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 8:43:50 GMT
bottom 3 and arse away to come reality check for some with rose coloured specs There is no denying it, it is looking shit at the moment. But 4 games in so got to see how things pan out. For the people calling everyone wrist slashers/moaners/nicker wetters, how many games in before people are allowed to look at the table and show concern? Christmas, I'd say. Might be a little late in a few peoples eyes but feel like a good stage to start talking about league positions.
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Post by petemac on Sept 2, 2015 8:46:04 GMT
The only problem I have is that all this fucking moaning is going to last for another week.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 2, 2015 9:00:24 GMT
The people who post things like "we're going to be in a relegation battle this season" are the same kinds of people who will be saying "Europe here we come!!!" if we beat Arsenal in a couple of weeks.
Drama. Fucking. Queens.
Have a bit of patience and see how things pan out. Do you think Chelsea fans are suddenly contemplating trips to Leeds next season just because they've started the season terribly? I'll answer that for you, no.
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Post by stokeharry on Sept 2, 2015 9:14:28 GMT
personally I'd back Mark Hughes judgement against any poster on Oatcake. You can't say that mate . Didn't you know that most of the posters on here are experts , whether it be on religion , politics, football tactics , signings etc ;-) Been spending a bit too much time sat on their arse playing FIFA half of these clowns have . Jonny come lately post 2008 brigade most of em n all
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 2, 2015 9:21:10 GMT
Excellent post and I agree with the essence of it. Fergy rebuilt the United side about 8 times and seem to remember everybody telling him he had lost the plot each time he changed the DNA of the side. This certainly is a new Stoke side with a new ethos and although I cant get my head around most of his decisions and the back four is baffling me, we will say that he has changed the plot rather than lost it and get behind man and our players, after his 1st two seasons in charge he maybe deserves our full backing and trust Why is the back 4 baffling you? Johnson, Pieters and Muniesa, if fit, were always going to be first choice with Ryan Shawcross. Ryan is injured and we have 3 players who can fill that gap, Cameron, Wilson and Wolschied. Wilson was injured for the opening fixture of the season so Cameron got the nod on the back of an excellent pre-season. It doesn't seem particularly baffling to me. Wilson and Wolschied have both come into the side at various times and done well. For a few league games post Blackburn, in truth, both were excellent in partnership with each other and whilst my memory might be playing tricks with me I'm pretty sure that they guided us to 3 wins on the bounce and 1 defeat in 8 or something like that. Wolschied may not be everyone's cup of tea (he's not mine either), and he's on a hiding to nothing as he's seen as spelling the end for Huth, but in truth, he's rarely let us down and whilst not always appearing convincing, he's featured consistently in a winning Stoke City side in Ryan's absence. Johnson, Pieters and Muniesa in the same side is a bit of a luxury for me, as in, they are all good with the ball at their feet, but not brilliant at defending, poor in the air and on set pieces, therefore for me essential we have at least 1 commanding defender in those areas to add much needed balance to that back four. Instead we have a square peg who looks out of place and regularly loses his marker. When we lost our captain I thought it would be top priortiy on our managers list to get that issue sorted. I would much prefer to see Wolly in there and Camerons energy in the midfield. Maybe I am just old school and the game has moved on, Hughes theory may well be if we have 70% of the posession then keeping the ball is the best form of defence. When asked about the perils of defending set pieces in his press conference, he mentioned about avoiding set pieces altogether rather than having to defend them - maybe he is light years ahead of all of us, because I cant see how a team can avoid miss-timed tackles - not when you have clumsy(dirty bastard) players like Adam in your side.
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Post by huddy on Sept 2, 2015 9:34:01 GMT
Look 2 points out of 12 is not a great start.No point pretending it is.I'm sure MH isn't delighted.The recruitment in general has been good and the long term under MH looks really bright.However not replacing Nzonzi like for like or finding a replacement for Shawcross even short term(look at the two centre halves Chelsea signed -£4m each) isn't great management IMHO .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 9:51:15 GMT
Mark Hughes has done a great job and the OP has got the timing of this thread completely wrong. We've had two 9th place finishes, finished last season strongly and are only four league games into this season, knowing also MH teams are slow starters. Peter Coates said the transfer policy had to be self supporting and in an age where transfer fees are simply stupid I think he's correct. For once you are absolutely right Geoff. Regarding the transfer policy, while I agree with what the club say, perhaps the CE should keep his mouth shut then, or is he just giving it the big season ticket sell? Mixed messages. I agree with geoff too, but I question the "self supporting" bit When you say "self supporting" what are the facts money wise? i realise that wages, and buying players has gone crazy over the years but, with the massive money clubs get in through TV etc surely Stoke City are very healthy? The Coates family are very shrewd business people.......so, I wonder .......if it struggles to be self supporting why do they bother? are owners of clubs just greedy or is it vanity, or maybe a love thing? Solely the latter I struggle with, because as much as I love Stoke City, I wouldn't imagine I'd throw millions at it through love alone
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Post by realstokebloke on Sept 2, 2015 10:40:13 GMT
I started thinking it had been a break even for me but...looking at it, there are clearly more in the (-) than the (+)
(-)
Not transfer related per se but Ryan's back injury - while I fully understand that you don't rush to back surgery, it has been apparent for some time that it wasn't going away. Unlike others though, I didn't subscribe to the clamour to get ano top end CB in the meantime. We are well stocked with CB cover. My preferred solution (which predated our 'move') was better cover in front of them - see Jedinak
SNZ departure (not yet 'replaced' by MVG and while the signs are there he can be the man, he needs to develop quickly). Clearly MLH loves him and we have to trust him to get him settled and playing. Echoes of Bojan's early misfiring starts?
The beyond baffling signing of a 5th choice CB in Woolly
The so far uninspiring freebie Affellay; too flighty for me - not robust enough for the centre, not fast enough any more for the wing and petulant enough to be a liability
* The failure to land the Jedi on the last day - I have always thought he would have suited us anyway but, right now he would have been perfect to stiffen up the spine. OK, he's 31 so short term or not, we'd be better with him than not today.
* That said, the failure to land a ready made, ready to go, SNZ replacement before the Jedi crisis - we had enough warning from his Dad That he would depart, but I do worry we have struggled to attract the real deal, next level players as we fish in the more exclusive ponds
The failure to persuade VM to sign. Arnie isn't suddenly going to become Mr Consistent overnight and, on his day, he was different gravy.
The failure to land Yarmo at our last opportunity (when he goes free agent, we'll get out gunned by bigger clubs and deeper pockets). Not strictly necessary, granted, but when you have a real sniff at a talent like that, I say you have to go for it
The failure to offload obvious candidates: Tex, Bardsley & ideally, Sidwell
(0)
Bego's departure - had we not got JB - more than ready and able to step up, this would have been a (-) but can anyone say he's been missed? Given the funds it generated and Jack's potential, nearer the (+) then the (-)
Happy also with keepers # 2 & #3.
(+)
A world-class addition in Shaq. Settle in sunshine and dazzle. Simple.
That said, there is an obvious caveat, I do worry that we do still struggle with the real deal, next level signings - due undoubtedly to our horrendous Pulisball hangover (see moans about Shaq going into the wilderness or Sturkis' less than complimentary comments for e.g.) Being honest, the ones we have landed have all had some element of dog's home in the mix
GJ: proving a good addition in his own right obvs but much more than that, it means no more Bardsley - a truly woeful addition from a previous window
Not to to be underestimated - the fund of goodwill that MLH has (by and large). The team clearly needs time to settle and, the (-)s aside, he deserves that time to get the blend right
Edit:
Oops, I think I've aciddentally put this on the wrong thread ("doh") - should be the "what did you think of the window?" one.
To reinterate my last point though, no, he hasn't lost it by any stretch. It was, overall, slightly disappointing but he definitely has the credit in the bank to buy the time to se us through.
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Post by ruts66 on Sept 2, 2015 10:48:01 GMT
No, Hughes has not lost the plot.
Shame the same can't be said about our section of 'weaker' supporters...
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 2, 2015 11:03:18 GMT
Could someone in admin delete the statue of Sir Stan, top left, and paste the following: Attachment DeletedThanks awfully !!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 11:16:01 GMT
after what we've done over the last 2 seasons thanks to Hughes, this thread title is possibly the most embarrassing thing i've ever seen on here!
shameful, disrespectful and cringeworthy!
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Post by Davef on Sept 2, 2015 11:25:59 GMT
bottom 3 and arse away to come reality check for some with rose coloured specs Or happy days for those with a petty, pathetic agenda and are desperately hoping for this manager to fail.
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Post by RAF on Sept 2, 2015 11:26:35 GMT
after what we've done over the last 2 seasons thanks to Hughes, this thread title is possibly the most embarrassing thing i've ever seen on here! shameful, disrespectful and cringeworthy! I'm not surprised, the OP was the very same person kissing TP's arse for signing Ameobi. The fucking mind boggles! H
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 11:28:44 GMT
after what we've done over the last 2 seasons thanks to Hughes, this thread title is possibly the most embarrassing thing i've ever seen on here! shameful, disrespectful and cringeworthy! Agree, far Better things have been shitbinned
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 2, 2015 11:39:56 GMT
Why is the back 4 baffling you? Johnson, Pieters and Muniesa, if fit, were always going to be first choice with Ryan Shawcross. Ryan is injured and we have 3 players who can fill that gap, Cameron, Wilson and Wolschied. Wilson was injured for the opening fixture of the season so Cameron got the nod on the back of an excellent pre-season. It doesn't seem particularly baffling to me. Wilson and Wolschied have both come into the side at various times and done well. For a few league games post Blackburn, in truth, both were excellent in partnership with each other and whilst my memory might be playing tricks with me I'm pretty sure that they guided us to 3 wins on the bounce and 1 defeat in 8 or something like that. Wolschied may not be everyone's cup of tea (he's not mine either), and he's on a hiding to nothing as he's seen as spelling the end for Huth, but in truth, he's rarely let us down and whilst not always appearing convincing, he's featured consistently in a winning Stoke City side in Ryan's absence. Johnson, Pieters and Muniesa in the same side is a bit of a luxury for me, as in, they are all good with the ball at their feet, but not brilliant at defending, poor in the air and on set pieces, therefore for me essential we have at least 1 commanding defender in those areas to add much needed balance to that back four. Instead we have a square peg who looks out of place and regularly loses his marker. When we lost our captain I thought it would be top priortiy on our managers list to get that issue sorted. I would much prefer to see Wolly in there and Camerons energy in the midfield. Maybe I am just old school and the game has moved on, Hughes theory may well be if we have 70% of the posession then keeping the ball is the best form of defence. When asked about the perils of defending set pieces in his press conference, he mentioned about avoiding set pieces altogether rather than having to defend them - maybe he is light years ahead of all of us, because I cant see how a team can avoid miss-timed tackles - not when you have clumsy(dirty bastard) players like Adam in your side. Pieters is an excellent defender though. Muniesa is an excellent defender also. Glen Johnson, in my opinion is unfairly maligned and is a better defender 1 v 1 than he is given credit for. I'm yet to see anyone get the better of him in our 4 league games to date. Granted he pushed forward so we may get caught out as a result when we unexpectedly give the ball away, but that is the perils of being more adventurous in the way you play. Shawcross is a huge loss and would be regardless of who we signed to cover his loss. Aerially, I can't recall Wooly being dominated by anyone. In fact, when he came on v Liverpool, I think he had a 100% success rate in aerial duals with Benteke, who as we all know, is a real handful in the air. At the end of the day, we have enough cover in defence to cater for an injury to anyone in that back 4. We missed Ryan for 8 or so games last season and actually did very well. We are no weaker at defending set pieces than we've ever been. Even under Pulis we were vulnerable to set pieces. Granted we aren't as threatening from them as we once were but then we don't spend all week practicing them nor do we build or side around playing for them. I honestly don't get the hysteria that has been prevalent on this forum over the last few days.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 2, 2015 11:42:11 GMT
He has enough credit in the bank to prove to everyone he can produce another masterstroke with this mismatched, patchwork side. I have more than enough faith in him. Mark Hughes barmy army. Amen brother!
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 2, 2015 11:59:38 GMT
bottom 3 and arse away to come reality check for some with rose coloured specs Or happy days for those with a petty, pathetic agenda and are desperately hoping for this manager to fail. Yes I think we have pretty much a thread full house on that score. The only one obviously missing is too busy making a cock of himself on WestBrom.com
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