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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 1, 2015 20:28:15 GMT
I'd like nothing more than to leave TP in the past, but you can point the finger at Mr Alcock for that. A ridiculous opinion that can't go unchallenged. Nobody has the right to decide what is or isn't in the past? The only ridiculous, illogical argument was yours! And not very charming too! I think Father Time might disagree with you there.
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:28:57 GMT
Hughes is relishing the challenge he signed up to. The spending parameters will be clear. He's creating a team in his image: tough, compact, mobile and incisive. The opportunity to lay to rest any whiff of QPR. The slow starts and lack of discernible set piece strategy continue to irk but they're quibbles rather than a call for his yed. We look in better shape than last year, with Johnson adding a goal threat from defence and the addition of Shaqiri. Early sogns are that the magic dust Mark and co. sprinkle has landed on Whelan, Cameron, Muniesa and Peiters so far and he may have found the motivational measure of Arnie. Diouf looks dangerous. More positives than negatives, he'll find a solution to the N'Zonzi gap. I'm glad he hasn't gone for an identikit replacement. It'll be different. Looking forward to the journey with Sparky and his mates again this season. I'll need the straightjacket not him. Honestly, how can you say 'we look in better shape than last year' without Bego, Zonz, Moses and Shawcross ?
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Post by sportsman on Sept 1, 2015 20:31:05 GMT
Come on, now it's not hughesy fault some plant pots took the day off today and feel like a wazzack.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Sept 1, 2015 20:31:15 GMT
It was never going to be a continuous upwards curve of progression.Maybe this season will see a blip,hard to say at this stage. I do think the squad looks unbalanced but if we can get the front 4 of Arnie,Bojan,Diouf and Shaq firing on all cylinders we should have enought fire power not to have to worry too much about a slightly suspect defence True, Hughes strategy is to score more goals than we concede. But MH, came from Man Utd and big teams regularly outscore other teams no matter how bad their defence is. Whether, a mid table side like Stoke with mid table resources can achieve the same results using this strategy I doubt very much? But time will tell!
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Post by Gods on Sept 1, 2015 20:31:32 GMT
Nervous times that's for sure. I think we're 9 without a win if you bundle in the post Wrexham close season tournaments and the Luton fiasco. Norwich was nothing short of terrifying, they battered us in to next week.
Honestly if I could tear up everything since May and start again I would do.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 1, 2015 20:32:30 GMT
It's possible our owners have lost it a bit but not Hughes.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:32:49 GMT
Hughes is relishing the challenge he signed up to. The spending parameters will be clear. He's creating a team in his image: tough, compact, mobile and incisive. The opportunity to lay to rest any whiff of QPR. The slow starts and lack of discernible set piece strategy continue to irk but they're quibbles rather than a call for his yed. We look in better shape than last year, with Johnson adding a goal threat from defence and the addition of Shaqiri. Early sogns are that the magic dust Mark and co. sprinkle has landed on Whelan, Cameron, Muniesa and Peiters so far and he may have found the motivational measure of Arnie. Diouf looks dangerous. More positives than negatives, he'll find a solution to the N'Zonzi gap. I'm glad he hasn't gone for an identikit replacement. It'll be different. Looking forward to the journey with Sparky and his mates again this season. I'll need the straightjacket not him. Honestly, how can you say 'we look in better shape than last year' without Bego, Zonz, Moses and Shawcross ? We have a bright young 'keeper in Butland that looks no less of a player than Begovic did at the moment (plus an experienced back up in Given). Moses? We have Shaqiri! Shawcross is injured, he'll be back! MVG is young and I think he'll come good. Add in the fact that Bojan is back to fitness and I'm struggling to see your despair?
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:33:01 GMT
I agree completely. I think this "net spend" issue can be a bit of a red herring sometimes if it doesn't take into account all the other behind the scenes costs to a transfer. Look at the amount of money Van Gaal has spent and has he really got value for money and is their team that much better than before?! Definately! I think we have been very shrewd in this window (any many others) with our "free" signings. Why spend money when you can sign quality players without having to pay a transfer fee? Because it inhibits / restricts you to shopping in a very small pond where part of the bait is often long contracts - fine when you catch. Bojan but not so great when it's a Sidwell
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:34:12 GMT
Definately! I think we have been very shrewd in this window (any many others) with our "free" signings. Why spend money when you can sign quality players without having to pay a transfer fee? Because it inhibits / restricts you to shopping in a very small pond where part of the bait is often long contracts - fine when you catch. Bojan but not so great when it's a Sidwell But we haven't been restricted have we? Christ! We broke our transfer record!
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Post by markfitdt on Sept 1, 2015 20:35:40 GMT
Definately! I think we have been very shrewd in this window (any many others) with our "free" signings. Why spend money when you can sign quality players without having to pay a transfer fee? Because it inhibits / restricts you to shopping in a very small pond where part of the bait is often long contracts - fine when you catch. Bojan but not so great when it's a Sidwell it would be interesting to know how small this very small pond is - would genuinely be interesting to know how many registered players in the UK alone are unattached at the end of the season let along Europe and further.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 1, 2015 20:35:51 GMT
I don't mind constructive criticism, but personally I'd back Mark Hughes judgement against any poster on Oatcake.
No body gets it right all of the time and the best laid plans go astray, but I'd still trust MH above anyone else to achieve our best position in the Prem. and/or win a trophy.
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:36:01 GMT
Honestly, how can you say 'we look in better shape than last year' without Bego, Zonz, Moses and Shawcross ? We have a bright young 'keeper in Butland that looks no less of a player than Begovic did at the moment (plus an experienced back up in Given). Moses? We have Shaqiri! Shawcross is injured, he'll be back! MVG is young and I think he'll come good. Add in the fact that Bojan is back to fitness and I'm struggling to see your despair? Your personal reassurance that 'MVG will come good' has mitigated my 'despair' somewhat Thanks ever so much
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 1, 2015 20:36:41 GMT
Yet again this board descends into a Pulis or Hughes farce. It is possible to rate them both you know, they've both done excellent jobs here. I'd like nothing more than to leave TP in the past, but you can point the finger at Mr Alcock for that. A ridiculous opinion that can't go unchallenged. I think your post of: "Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him?
One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now."
did light the blue touch paper for the rimmers (not that I don't agree with you by the way
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:37:08 GMT
I don't mind constructive criticism, but personally I'd back Mark Hughes judgement against any poster on Oatcake. No body gets it right all of the time and the best laid plans go astray, but I'd still trust MH above anyone else to achieve our best position in the Prem. and/or win a trophy. Haven't you heard? We're all experienced premier league managers with university degrees and UEFA A coaching qualifications on this board ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 20:37:48 GMT
Thought I would wait to see what he did in the window before passing judgement. I would not have minded had we even been linked to a central defender, but not even a hint that we were even interested in one. Given the poor defensive performances pre-season, the substandard start to the season and the further loss of our captain, I find it hard to belief that he seems to think we are alright in the defensive area. Cameron is obviously the man he is going to keep with until the return of our captain, but what a risk that is going to be, both of our away games could have seen us conceed considerably more than we did, I think Norwich created 20+ attempts. Why are we starting the season with a square peg in a round hole. For me an extremely weak back four(defending wise) that wont be protected by an unpredictable midfield. I have seen nothing in the opening games to make me feel that the back four will work - quite the opposite. And what about CM? Maybe it is just me that cant see the potential that Sparky does within his ranks, but I am not sure even he knows how he is going to play or what his so called dream team is going to be. I cant see where a clean sheet is coming from and will have the prayer mat out against the Arse, it is always a tough game there at the best of times, I just hope we can at least put up a good performance and bring some confidence back for the Leicester/Bournemouth games. Been absolutely delighted with Hughes in his 2 seasons here, but In all honesty I have lost a little faith in him and cant see where he is going with this set of players. Where is the replacement for the ageing Whelan and where was the replacement for Nzonzi. Arguably Whelan is now our most important player. Why get rid of Huth, Leicester have not lost a bloody game since he joined - is Cameron the next level defender that we are looking for and a better player than Huth(I know he didn't play much after his injury, but he was still in our ranks to be chosen when needed - like now) Top 6 was mentioned again leading up to the WBA game, which does lead me to believe he has ever so slightly lost the plot Totally baffled and fecked off to be honest, but we do have twinkle toes and Shakira in our ranks so not all is lost. no
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:38:06 GMT
Because it inhibits / restricts you to shopping in a very small pond where part of the bait is often long contracts - fine when you catch. Bojan but not so great when it's a Sidwell it would be interesting to know how small this very small pond is - would genuinely be interesting to know how many registered players in the UK alone are unattached at the end of the season let along Europe and further. The pond that contains any that are any good is pretty small I assure you !
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:38:19 GMT
We have a bright young 'keeper in Butland that looks no less of a player than Begovic did at the moment (plus an experienced back up in Given). Moses? We have Shaqiri! Shawcross is injured, he'll be back! MVG is young and I think he'll come good. Add in the fact that Bojan is back to fitness and I'm struggling to see your despair? Your personal reassurance that 'MVG will come good' has mitigated my 'despair' somewhat Thanks ever so much But I have proven the rest of your points as hogwash ... I'll take that! If Hughes trusts MVG to do the job then so do I!
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:39:04 GMT
Because it inhibits / restricts you to shopping in a very small pond where part of the bait is often long contracts - fine when you catch. Bojan but not so great when it's a Sidwell But we haven't been restricted have we? Christ! We broke our transfer record! Of course we have been restricted - just because we spent the majority of it on one player doesn't hide the fact that we are the second lowest net spenders in the league this window
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:39:02 GMT
it would be interesting to know how small this very small pond is - would genuinely be interesting to know how many registered players in the UK alone are unattached at the end of the season let along Europe and further. The pond that contains any that are any good is pretty small I assure you ! Ireland? Diouf? Given? Johnson? and they're just the first four that sprang to mind that we've signed!
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Post by markfitdt on Sept 1, 2015 20:41:29 GMT
it would be interesting to know how small this very small pond is - would genuinely be interesting to know how many registered players in the UK alone are unattached at the end of the season let along Europe and further. The pond that contains any that are any good is pretty small I assure you ! hmmmm, no offence but I will take Hughes's judgement on that subject over anyone's on here lol
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 1, 2015 20:44:34 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. I don't need go any further than this post on this thread - So if anyone has already said this, apologies..... What the fuck has happened to our fanbase since our return to the Premier League? Season after season we hear the same old shit. Every player we're 'linked' to is toss, but then when we don't actually sign him he suddenly becomes the best player ever & just what we needed. Our current squad are always labelled as a bunch of wank & can all be sold, then the second they're linked with a departure they're the best thing since sliced bread & we're doomed if we lose them. Spend loads of money & we're on a oneway street to failiure, we need to be smart & sign foreigners & young lads. Do exactly that & suddenly we're doomed to failiure & we need to be spending millions & millions! Everyone else has always done better business than us. It started with Hull (Where are they now?) Then it was Norwich the other year & their amazing transfer window which the brains trust on here told us would leave us for dead (How did that work out?) Now it's teams like West Ham!... Of course the people who spout all this bollocks will go into hiding later in the year, just like they did after spouting the same shit about Hull, Blackpool, Newcastle & whoever the fuck else was that season's "We'll use this club as a stick to beat us with". There are so many negative bellends on this forum, who unfortunately make thousands of posts so it seems like their opinion is the general opinion. Of course these people can never be wrong 'cos they always slag off everything we do - All our players are shit, all our transfers are shit - So if it does all go wrong (And eventually it will, it does for everyone) they can say "I told you so". But of course they always add in the little "If only he does this, or he's played there", so when it all ends up rosie (As it has done for season after season now) they can brush off all their negative shit with some "Well they finally did what I said" load of bollocks.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Sept 1, 2015 20:44:20 GMT
Is the change happening too quickly. Defence should always be the pillar on which successful sides grow and I'm afraid this is probably the weakest Stoke defence we have had in the prem, so a disappointing window as we need a strong defensive midfield player and a CH that can head a bloody ball instead of just trying to maul the opposition.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:46:14 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. I don't need go any further than this post on this thread - So if anyone has already said this, apologies..... What the fuck has happened to our fanbase since our return to the Premier League? Season after season we hear the same old shit. Every player we're 'linked' to is toss, but then when we don't actually sign him he suddenly becomes the best player ever & just what we needed. Our current squad are always labelled as a bunch of wank & can all be sold, then the second they're linked with a departure they're the best thing since sliced bread & we're doomed if we lose them. Spend loads of money & we're on a oneway street to failiure, we need to be smart & sign foreigners & young lads. Do exactly that & suddenly we're doomed to failiure & we need to be spending millions & millions! Everyone else has always done better business than us. It started with Hull (Where are they now?) Then it was Norwich the other year & their amazing transfer window which the brains trust on here told us would leave us for dead (How did that work out?) Now it's teams like West Ham!... Of course the people who spout all this bollocks will go into hiding later in the year, just like they did after spouting the same shit about Hull, Blackpool, Newcastle & whoever the fuck else was that season's "We'll use this club as a stick to beat us with". There are so many negative bellends on this forum, who unfortunately make thousands of posts so it seems like their opinion is the general opinion. Of course these people can never be wrong 'cos they always slag off everything we do - All our players are shit, all our transfers are shit - So if it does all go wrong (And eventually it will, it does for everyone) they can say "I told you so". But of course they always add in the little "If only he does this, or he's played there", so when it all ends up rosie (As it has done for season after season now) they can brush off all their negative shit with some "Well they finally did what I said" load of bollocks. This End of thread please guys, perfectly summed up!
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 1, 2015 20:46:22 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. He certainly does deserve a bit more faith and maybe more than I am showing him at the moment and his team did show backbone on Saturday, but also bad discipline. I just dont understand hardly any of his comings and goings this year - as stated in the OP. I also do not understand the dream team and top 6 predictions coming from him. I have not predicted relegation for us, but I am concerned. In a way that I was not concerned this time last year when we had lost the opening 3 home games. Nobody can be certain how this team will perform and there are worrying signs all over the park from both pre-season and early season games. A team should not come out of the window playing square pegs One thing I am not is as optimistic as the majority of supporters on here.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 1, 2015 20:47:32 GMT
Honestly, how can you say 'we look in better shape than last year' without Bego, Zonz, Moses and Shawcross ? We have a bright young 'keeper in Butland that looks no less of a player than Begovic did at the moment (plus an experienced back up in Given). Moses? We have Shaqiri! Shawcross is injured, he'll be back! MVG is young and I think he'll come good. Add in the fact that Bojan is back to fitness and I'm struggling to see your despair? I prefer Shaqiri to Moses, and I think Arnautovic has more chance to shine without Moses here. I reckon Shawcross, by the standards he sets, was under par since last xmas, so a healed Ryan will be better than last year, a crocked Ryan wasn't working. We can cope til he's back. Etc etc.. it is all debatable but our first five performances have been better than the limp start from last season. The counter attack at Man City masked an atrocious start to last year. In that sense we're stronger this year. Imo.
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:47:50 GMT
The pond that contains any that are any good is pretty small I assure you ! Ireland? Diouf? Given? Johnson? and they're just the first four that sprang to mind that we've signed! I'll give you Diouf but you can't say Johnson and Given yet as they may well be as shot as Bardsley and Sidwell We are shopping in the bargain bins still - take a look at our P & L when it's published next and see how little we will have spent relative to earnings yet again It's simply not sustainable and I feel that Hughes is having to operate in a manner that most other managers would fall flat on their faces
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 20:52:29 GMT
Ireland? Diouf? Given? Johnson? and they're just the first four that sprang to mind that we've signed! I'll give you Diouf but you can't say Johnson and Given yet as they may well be as shot as Bardsley and Sidwell We are shopping in the bargain bins still - take a look at our P & L when it's published next and see how little we will have spent relative to earnings yet again It's simply not sustainable and I feel that Hughes is having to operate in a manner that most other managers would fall flat on their faces Given is a proven goalkeeper at this level. To have him as back up to a young 'keeper is fantastic! Johnson has looked good up to this point. You don't play for England, Chelsea and Liverpool unless you have something about you! To relate them with Bardsley and Sidwell is a bizarre comparison. Man Utd have spent more in transfer fees than any other club over the last 2 season (and won nothing for their troubles). Net spend is not a barometer of success or sustainability. Making good signings at the right price (or for free) is!
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 20:52:52 GMT
We have a bright young 'keeper in Butland that looks no less of a player than Begovic did at the moment (plus an experienced back up in Given). Moses? We have Shaqiri! Shawcross is injured, he'll be back! MVG is young and I think he'll come good. Add in the fact that Bojan is back to fitness and I'm struggling to see your despair? I prefer Shakiri to Moses, and I think Arnautovic has more chance to shine without Moses here. I reckon Shawcross, by the standards he sets, was under par since last xmas, so a healed Ryan will be better than last year, a crocked Ryan wasn't working. We can cope til he's back. Etc etc.. it is all debatable but our first five performances have been better than the limp start from last season. The counter attack at Man City masked an atrocious start last year. We're stronger this year. Imo. It's your opinion and you are of course entitled to it. I'd argue otherwise and in terms of relative strength compared to the 'competition' then we have taken a further step backwards. IMO
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Post by foxysgloves on Sept 1, 2015 21:00:10 GMT
I'd be amazed if there's any rational Stokie who isn't at least a little concerned at our current state.
I hope to God I'm wrong but I can't shake the feeling that we could be this seasons surprise relegation candidates.
A mixture of bad luck, unusual signings and several weak spots in the squad mean MH and team really have their work cut out.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 1, 2015 21:01:42 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. Ever heard of beginner's luck? It helps too when all your best players were brought to the club by your 'failed' predecessor! Best player at Stoke currently is Whelan and he cost £500,000 in a last minute transfer deadline deal that MH and 'the pizza boys' can only dream about and certainly never emulate! Is this serious? Fuck me, call the men in the white coats. Beginners luck?
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