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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 1, 2015 21:02:43 GMT
Is the change happening too quickly. Defence should always be the pillar on which successful sides grow and I'm afraid this is probably the weakest Stoke defence we have had in the prem, so a disappointing window as we need a strong defensive midfield player and a CH that can head a bloody ball instead of just trying to maul the opposition. I think we have some good defenders going forward and on the ball, but that has to be balanced out with some commanding defenders and as you say at least 1 bugger who can head a ball and defend a set piece. On that basis we do have the worst defence we have had for some time - there is no balance in there at all
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 1, 2015 21:06:07 GMT
Ever heard of beginner's luck? It helps too when all your best players were brought to the club by your 'failed' predecessor! Best player at Stoke currently is Whelan and he cost £500,000 in a last minute transfer deadline deal that MH and 'the pizza boys' can only dream about and certainly never emulate! Is this serious? Fuck me, call the men in the white coats. Beginners luck? But Mark Hughes never managed anywhere before he rocked up at Stoke did he?
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Post by Titan Uranus on Sept 1, 2015 21:13:34 GMT
Is the change happening too quickly. Defence should always be the pillar on which successful sides grow and I'm afraid this is probably the weakest Stoke defence we have had in the prem, so a disappointing window as we need a strong defensive midfield player and a CH that can head a bloody ball instead of just trying to maul the opposition. I think we have some good defenders going forward and on the ball, but that has to be balanced out with some commanding defenders and as you say at least 1 bugger who can head a ball and defend a set piece. On that basis we do have the worst defence we have had for some time - there is no balance in there at all We didn't put any contingency in place for the loss of Ryan and we haven't replaced our Player of the Season. Hence the frantic effort to sign the Palace midfielder today. Even Sparky realised at the last minute that Rip and Affy cannot fill those Zonzi boots yet. F*ck up ... how big depends on date of Shawcross fit and able return.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 1, 2015 21:15:07 GMT
Nervous times that's for sure. I think we're 9 without a win if you bundle in the post Wrexham close season tournaments and the Luton fiasco. Norwich was nothing short of terrifying, they battered us in to next week. Honestly if I could tear up everything since May and start again I would do. Yeah. Add in all the other non-competitive matches and matches we actually won and we're 152 years without a win.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 1, 2015 21:16:11 GMT
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 21:17:01 GMT
I'll give you Diouf but you can't say Johnson and Given yet as they may well be as shot as Bardsley and Sidwell We are shopping in the bargain bins still - take a look at our P & L when it's published next and see how little we will have spent relative to earnings yet again It's simply not sustainable and I feel that Hughes is having to operate in a manner that most other managers would fall flat on their faces Given is a proven goalkeeper at this level. To have him as back up to a young 'keeper is fantastic! Johnson has looked good up to this point. You don't play for England, Chelsea and Liverpool unless you have something about you! To relate them with Bardsley and Sidwell is a bizarre comparison. Man Utd have spent more in transfer fees than any other club over the last 2 season (and won nothing for their troubles). Net spend is not a barometer of success or sustainability. Making good signings at the right price (or for free) is! In what way is it a 'bizarre comparison to relate them to Bardsley and Sidwell ' - the point is that they were also 'free' and it's totally relevant to the argument As for Johnson, he may well turn out to be good but his England days are over and he is 31 years old and Given is 38 ! - hardly at the peak of their careers are they ?
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 1, 2015 21:17:13 GMT
Is this serious? Fuck me, call the men in the white coats. Beginners luck? But Mark Hughes never managed anywhere before he rocked up at Stoke did he? He did his last managerial position was at QPR maybe that is why he is here and not sitting in the Man Utd hot seat.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 1, 2015 21:18:29 GMT
It's only a matter of time before the usual posters start laying into the manager. The previous manager has done a right job on them.
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Post by stokemark on Sept 1, 2015 21:19:34 GMT
Oh and if you are going to quote Man Utd as some sort of barometer lets see where the likes of Man City and Chelsea are - scrapping around the bargain bins trying to stop up are they ?
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 1, 2015 21:19:48 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. I don't need go any further than this post on this thread - So if anyone has already said this, apologies..... What the fuck has happened to our fanbase since our return to the Premier League? Season after season we hear the same old shit. Every player we're 'linked' to is toss, but then when we don't actually sign him he suddenly becomes the best player ever & just what we needed. Our current squad are always labelled as a bunch of wank & can all be sold, then the second they're linked with a departure they're the best thing since sliced bread & we're doomed if we lose them. Spend loads of money & we're on a oneway street to failiure, we need to be smart & sign foreigners & young lads. Do exactly that & suddenly we're doomed to failiure & we need to be spending millions & millions! Everyone else has always done better business than us. It started with Hull (Where are they now?) Then it was Norwich the other year & their amazing transfer window which the brains trust on here told us would leave us for dead (How did that work out?) Now it's teams like West Ham!... Of course the people who spout all this bollocks will go into hiding later in the year, just like they did after spouting the same shit about Hull, Blackpool, Newcastle & whoever the fuck else was that season's "We'll use this club as a stick to beat us with". There are so many negative bellends on this forum, who unfortunately make thousands of posts so it seems like their opinion is the general opinion. Of course these people can never be wrong 'cos they always slag off everything we do - All our players are shit, all our transfers are shit - So if it does all go wrong (And eventually it will, it does for everyone) they can say "I told you so". But of course they always add in the little "If only he does this, or he's played there", so when it all ends up rosie (As it has done for season after season now) they can brush off all their negative shit with some "Well they finally did what I said" load of bollocks. Except I have been a member on here for nearly a decade and have yet to hit the 1000 mark in number of posts and have also been 1 of Hughes biggest fans since his arrival. It is a forum my friend where people express their opinion and concerns and these opinions could differ from yours. Therfore if you do not like people expressing opinions - what are you doing on a football forum. For the record I am normally wrong with all of my opinions and sincerely hope my concerns are ill advised this time round too.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 1, 2015 21:22:31 GMT
Given we've started slowly and finished 9th in each of the last two seasons, do we not think using terms like 'surprise relegation contenders' is maybe a weensy bit hysterical and we should maybe just pipe down for a while?
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Post by bmstoke on Sept 1, 2015 21:25:36 GMT
Lovely! Which charm school did you attend? Most of the players in Hughes first season he inherited and probably true second season. I agree he added the essential flair to push us up five or so places in the league. It's not MH I have a problem with, it's the owners who talk of a big transfer kitty every window and deliver peanuts! They've delivered two world class footballers for fuck sake. I used to smile when when people used to post "fuck off up the vale", if you can't enjoy footballers like Shaqiri, Bojan, Muniesa or Arnie it really is time to fuck off up the vale I think it's more a case of "fuck off up the Hawthorns" .
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Post by elystokie on Sept 1, 2015 21:34:11 GMT
I don't need go any further than this post on this thread - So if anyone has already said this, apologies..... What the fuck has happened to our fanbase since our return to the Premier League? Season after season we hear the same old shit. Every player we're 'linked' to is toss, but then when we don't actually sign him he suddenly becomes the best player ever & just what we needed. Our current squad are always labelled as a bunch of wank & can all be sold, then the second they're linked with a departure they're the best thing since sliced bread & we're doomed if we lose them. Spend loads of money & we're on a oneway street to failiure, we need to be smart & sign foreigners & young lads. Do exactly that & suddenly we're doomed to failiure & we need to be spending millions & millions! Everyone else has always done better business than us. It started with Hull (Where are they now?) Then it was Norwich the other year & their amazing transfer window which the brains trust on here told us would leave us for dead (How did that work out?) Now it's teams like West Ham!... Of course the people who spout all this bollocks will go into hiding later in the year, just like they did after spouting the same shit about Hull, Blackpool, Newcastle & whoever the fuck else was that season's "We'll use this club as a stick to beat us with". There are so many negative bellends on this forum, who unfortunately make thousands of posts so it seems like their opinion is the general opinion. Of course these people can never be wrong 'cos they always slag off everything we do - All our players are shit, all our transfers are shit - So if it does all go wrong (And eventually it will, it does for everyone) they can say "I told you so". But of course they always add in the little "If only he does this, or he's played there", so when it all ends up rosie (As it has done for season after season now) they can brush off all their negative shit with some "Well they finally did what I said" load of bollocks. Except I have been a member on here for nearly a decade and have yet to hit the 1000 mark in number of posts and have also been 1 of Hughes biggest fans since his arrival. It is a forum my friend where people express their opinion and concerns and these opinions could differ from yours. Therfore if you do not like people expressing opinions - what are you doing on a football forum. For the record I am normally wrong with all of my opinions and sincerely hope my concerns are ill advised this time round too. Hmmm... from Oct 27th 2013 "Hull, Cardiff and Palace fans would die for a squad of players as good as ours and so would their managers, we need to stop making excuses for Hughes." Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWbfbw4Lfrom Nov 2nd 2013 "We are the new QPR - utter shite" Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWbI4m8FYup, I can see where you're coming from with that...
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Post by Gods on Sept 1, 2015 21:35:58 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. I am sorry Dave but I find it hard to sign up to the general mood of euphoria around the WBA home defeat. Truth is we looked very smooth and bright for 30 minutes while we had a full compliment of players but in that period only one goalkeeper was forced in to a decent save and it wasn't the WBA keeper. We may have gone on to win the game or we may have unraveled as we did the week before at Norwich. Either way we never got the chance to see because the actions of 2 brain dead loons on our team reduced us to 9 men who fought bravely to the end. It didn't make it a proud day for us in my book. Just a great chance to start to accrue some vital league points pissed up the wall.
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 1, 2015 21:40:42 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. Ever heard of beginner's luck? It helps too when all your best players were brought to the club by your 'failed' predecessor! Best player at Stoke currently is Whelan and he cost £500,000 in a last minute transfer deadline deal that MH and 'the pizza boys' can only dream about and certainly never emulate! I'm embarrased for you after reading that.
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 1, 2015 22:14:07 GMT
Except I have been a member on here for nearly a decade and have yet to hit the 1000 mark in number of posts and have also been 1 of Hughes biggest fans since his arrival. It is a forum my friend where people express their opinion and concerns and these opinions could differ from yours. Therfore if you do not like people expressing opinions - what are you doing on a football forum. For the record I am normally wrong with all of my opinions and sincerely hope my concerns are ill advised this time round too. Hmmm... from Oct 27th 2013 "Hull, Cardiff and Palace fans would die for a squad of players as good as ours and so would their managers, we need to stop making excuses for Hughes." Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWbfbw4Lfrom Nov 2nd 2013 "We are the new QPR - utter shite" Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWbI4m8FYup, I can see where you're coming from with that... Well done for picking those old ones out But how about some more recent comments: 15th Feb 2015 Nothing to do with Pulis, Hughes is our manager now and I would not swap him for the world - least of all Pulis. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWkwzULa15th Mar 2015 The core of our team is quality and not exagerating to say top 6 material(Begs, Shawcross, Nzonzi, Bojan) but would love to see someone with the same quality as these players at RB, CM(little holding player of Makelele quality would be nice) and of course Fuller mk2 would be orgasmic. We are so close to a great little side, would be ashame to not invest in the summer. Dont agree with getting rid of Huth though, as some are saying on this thread, if this year has taught us anything it has been how important a great squad is and we are woefully short at CB at the moment too Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWlkHENI
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 1, 2015 22:24:37 GMT
I don't think so , I have faith in him and his coaches biggest risks for me are van ginkel and Joselu but it's their job to get them up,to standard , my main worry is if we don't get a win or two soon the pressure will build and I'm not sure how this squad would handle that but hopefully that won't be an issue after Arseanal Leicester and Bournemouth if we have not won by then it's a worry
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Post by discokaraoke on Sept 1, 2015 22:37:47 GMT
I'd be amazed if there's any rational Stokie who isn't at least a little concerned at our current state. I hope to God I'm wrong but I can't shake the feeling that we could be this seasons surprise relegation candidates. A mixture of bad luck, unusual signings and several weak spots in the squad mean MH and team really have their work cut out. We are in a battle with the likes of Chelsea ATM, ok, they are two points better off at present.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 1, 2015 23:08:32 GMT
Well done for picking those old ones out :) But how about some more recent comments: 15th Feb 2015 Nothing to do with Pulis, Hughes is our manager now and I would not swap him for the world - least of all Pulis. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWkwzULa15th Mar 2015 The core of our team is quality and not exagerating to say top 6 material(Begs, Shawcross, Nzonzi, Bojan) but would love to see someone with the same quality as these players at RB, CM(little holding player of Makelele quality would be nice) and of course Fuller mk2 would be orgasmic. We are so close to a great little side, would be ashame to not invest in the summer. Dont agree with getting rid of Huth though, as some are saying on this thread, if this year has taught us anything it has been how important a great squad is and we are woefully short at CB at the moment too Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/585/recent#ixzz3kWlkHENIVery good, but I was referring to the 'since his arrival' quote ;) Good to see you saw the light, particularly in Feb this year, that quote I do like :D
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 1, 2015 23:19:50 GMT
Given is a proven goalkeeper at this level. To have him as back up to a young 'keeper is fantastic! Johnson has looked good up to this point. You don't play for England, Chelsea and Liverpool unless you have something about you! To relate them with Bardsley and Sidwell is a bizarre comparison. Man Utd have spent more in transfer fees than any other club over the last 2 season (and won nothing for their troubles). Net spend is not a barometer of success or sustainability. Making good signings at the right price (or for free) is! In what way is it a 'bizarre comparison to relate them to Bardsley and Sidwell ' - the point is that they were also 'free' and it's totally relevant to the argument As for Johnson, he may well turn out to be good but his England days are over and he is 31 years old and Given is 38 ! - hardly at the peak of their careers are they ? The idea that you can compare the quality and what they have achieved in their careers is! Given doesn't need to be, that's the point of having an experience back up 'keeper to support the youth of Butland. The career of players is lengthening. 31 isn't even seen as being "old" anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 6:42:06 GMT
Thought I would wait to see what he did in the window before passing judgement. I would not have minded had we even been linked to a central defender, but not even a hint that we were even interested in one. Given the poor defensive performances pre-season, the substandard start to the season and the further loss of our captain, I find it hard to belief that he seems to think we are alright in the defensive area. Cameron is obviously the man he is going to keep with until the return of our captain, but what a risk that is going to be, both of our away games could have seen us conceed considerably more than we did, I think Norwich created 20+ attempts. Why are we starting the season with a square peg in a round hole. For me an extremely weak back four(defending wise) that wont be protected by an unpredictable midfield. I have seen nothing in the opening games to make me feel that the back four will work - quite the opposite. And what about CM? Maybe it is just me that cant see the potential that Sparky does within his ranks, but I am not sure even he knows how he is going to play or what his so called dream team is going to be. I cant see where a clean sheet is coming from and will have the prayer mat out against the Arse, it is always a tough game there at the best of times, I just hope we can at least put up a good performance and bring some confidence back for the Leicester/Bournemouth games. Been absolutely delighted with Hughes in his 2 seasons here, but In all honesty I have lost a little faith in him and cant see where he is going with this set of players. Where is the replacement for the ageing Whelan and where was the replacement for Nzonzi. Arguably Whelan is now our most important player. Why get rid of Huth, Leicester have not lost a bloody game since he joined - is Cameron the next level defender that we are looking for and a better player than Huth(I know he didn't play much after his injury, but he was still in our ranks to be chosen when needed - like now) Top 6 was mentioned again leading up to the WBA game, which does lead me to believe he has ever so slightly lost the plot Totally baffled and fecked off to be honest, but we do have twinkle toes and Shakira in our ranks so not all is lost. What was your assessment of the West Brom defensive performance? Who looked poor?
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 2, 2015 6:54:09 GMT
Don't you think a manager who's turned things from the kind of shite we witnessed on Saturday into two top ten Premier League finished deserves a bit more faith shown in him? One thing's for certain, Mark Hughes' team showed a lot more backbone at the weekend than some Stoke fans are showing right now. True - however it is not just down to him. Given our net spend, one can not but wonder if he has been backed all the way.
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 2, 2015 6:59:50 GMT
Are some of the posters on here supporting the same team as me....? Truly shameful comments by some....call yourselves supporters? Take a very long hard look in the mirror.
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rich0529
Academy Starlet
COYP!
Posts: 241
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Post by rich0529 on Sept 2, 2015 7:02:47 GMT
Definitely not, there is so much doubt and only a couple of games into the season! As people have mentioned sparky has turned this team into a great squad playing quality football and signing some good players, I'd love to see more positive posts, it's all negative at the moment!
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 2, 2015 7:05:36 GMT
In what way is it a 'bizarre comparison to relate them to Bardsley and Sidwell ' - the point is that they were also 'free' and it's totally relevant to the argument As for Johnson, he may well turn out to be good but his England days are over and he is 31 years old and Given is 38 ! - hardly at the peak of their careers are they ? The idea that you can compare the quality and what they have achieved in their careers is! Given doesn't need to be, that's the point of having an experience back up 'keeper to support the youth of Butland. The career of players is lengthening. 31 isn't even seen as being "old" anymore. Which is true but strange as some on here are classing Huth as old at 31
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 2, 2015 7:12:24 GMT
Definitely not, there is so much doubt and only a couple of games into the season! As people have mentioned sparky has turned this team into a great squad playing quality football and signing some good players, I'd love to see more positive posts, it's all negative at the moment! Most of the negativity comes from the club talking about pushing on this summer, instead we have lost proven players including our best player last season and not replaced him, we needed three players at the end of last season to improve what we had, we have signed 12 players and still need three how can that be progress, to many if's for me.
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Post by pyrus on Sept 2, 2015 7:24:25 GMT
I have read the first and last page of this thread, so apologies if I make the same point anyone else has made.
I don't think teams can always evolve a bit at a time, never breaking stride, incrementally progressing year on year. I think that from time to time the core of the team has to be reimagined and a new team built.
If you go back to Hughes time as a player at Manchester United, Ferguson sold him, Kanchelskis, Ince, Pallister and a load of other world class players and replaced them with 'the kids'. It was a risk and they got dicked first time out. But it was a team rebuild. He kept players like Keane and Bruce, added players like Cantona, Schmeichael and Irwin into it and then moved other players in and out season on season. Essentially he built a new team to replace and improve them and ultimately he won the championship with them and just about everything else as well.
I think Hughes may be doing this with Stoke right now. The spine of the team is changing, it is now (will be at least) Butland, Shawcross, van Ginkel and Diouf. The midfield of Shaqiri, Affalay, Arnie, Ireland, the magic of Bojan. Then you add experience like Johnson and some class like Muniesa and you see a different Stoke City emerge.
There are problems also. The players are going to have to settle into a new team with new roles. I think van Ginkel has the hardest job of all and that is evident thus far. We clearly didn't want to lose NZonzi and not been able to replace him. I think we did not expect Shawcross to be injured and these are set backs - In part he is making changes to adapt, in part he is working with the second string options, but that is why they are there.
The point I am clumsily making, is that Stoke is in rebuild. Having changed the playing strategy, Hughes has brought a lot of new faces in to support that strategy and he now has to get them all knitted together. It is disruptive and it won't come without a few problems along the way, but generally it has to be the right thing to do.
So in response to the thread title, No Hughes has not lost the plot. I rather think he is changing the plot and change makes people nervous.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 7:26:03 GMT
Are some of the posters on here supporting the same team as me....? Truly shameful comments by some....call yourselves supporters? Take a very long hard look in the mirror. This, all day long.
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Post by jeycov on Sept 2, 2015 7:34:11 GMT
I don't think so , I have faith in him and his coaches biggest risks for me are van ginkel and Joselu but it's their job to get them up,to standard , my main worry is if we don't get a win or two soon the pressure will build and I'm not sure how this squad would handle that but hopefully that won't be an issue after Arseanal Leicester and Bournemouth if we have not won by then it's a worry All signings (and managerial appointments) are a risk The likes of Arnie, Bojan, Muniesa , Diouf ... all have potential to be top players but seemed to "have lost their way" and were not performing at their previous clubs Stoke took a calculated risk that they would do well here. It could have gone badly wrong of course, but so far so good They weren't an instant hit here Some of the more recent signings have great potential too. As well as the likes of Shaqiri, Affelay and Joselu we have also signed some promising youngsters I think it's been a very good transfer window ( we didn't get all of our targets) and I believe that MH is positive that Ryan will return to the squad in a few months time (otherwise a CB would have been a priority)
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Post by cheadlestokie on Sept 2, 2015 7:35:47 GMT
There are a lot of eyes on Van Ginkel because he is perceived to be the replacement for N'Zonzi. I believe that bringing in a new defensive midfielder was fundamental to our season to either play with or instead of Whelan if he becomes injured or indeed falls out of form. I think this was clearly recognised by Hughes due to his efforts to bring in Jedinak. It is a pity that the move failed. It will be interesting to say the least to see how this season develops and there already is incredible pressure on the team and management to produce positive results against Leicester and Bournemouth in our next two home games.
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